Discuss - Ep #0383

[Watching Project]

Robservations - #383

And if you'd care to look back, the first WP discussion topic for this ep:

Re: Discuss - Ep #0383

[MagnusTrask]

Too Anthony-George-heavy for my tastes.   Undeniably an important episode, though, this is where the bitterness starts.  You can't help fixating on Barnabas and climbing inside his head as what's happened sinks in, because we know how long the bitterness lasts and how twisted it gets.   It's a transforming moment.    This is the kind of moment writers have always written about, the time when the world comes along and crushes the innocence out of you, and you're never the same again.

Nice job being the romantic lead (as he described his role in that article), Mr. "Lemme Outa Here" George.  I just can't stand to watch or listen to him trying to get romantic, for whatever reason.   One reason must be that he's not exactly into the show.   I realize I'm not the intended audience for his romantic acting, but maybe others here can corroborate his irritating nature.

By the way, in real life, after a challenge to a duel was issued, everybody generally spent a lot of time trying to figure out creative ways of weaseling their way out of the duel....!   Not many actually took place.

[dom]

I guess Collinsport has no rumor mill because J & J are hold up at the Collinsport Inn.

It's weird trying to put myself into the times. I know there is no such thing as witchcraft as practiced by Angelique and yet there is, so as absurd as everything is, it isn't. My disgust with Abigail is more rooted in the present than in the context of the story.

As a viewer I am very happy that Barn is taking up for Vicki, knowing she is innocent.

New character: Riggs, a male housekeeper (he was dusting after all). I wonder if that is progressive for the times? 

I like and agree with your take on the importance of this episode, MT. Luckily for Vicki & Ben, though Barn loses his innocence he does retain his sense of loyalty and justice, even after the next big crush.

[MagnusTrask]

Thanks, dom.  [spoiler]I wonder if having Vicki to believe in and worry about and defend, while all this disillusionment and pain is happening to him, moderates Barnabas's bitterness and personality shift, so that he's not quite so bad in this timeline.   Phyllis Wick might not have brought out the same kind of empathy.

Not that there's any particular evidence that present-day Barnabas is improved compared to before Vicki's trip.   I wonder sometimes if there's a difference, though.   Maybe it's remarkable that he ever "reformed" at all... and the turning point was saving Jeff Clark's life?!   Not enough of a reason for "old timeline Barnabas", maybe...[/spoiler]

[DarkLady]

I agree that AG is very tiresome, but Jeremiah and Josette's decision to try to be kind to each other is very sad. Poor Josette's married life looks to be so different from the one she imagined with Barnabas.

We actually see the famous Riggs, the footman (played by Dan Mason), tidying up the mantelpiece--really a housemaid’s job--in the drawing room when Jeremiah returns. The servant problem at Collinwood has a long history, it seems.

Absolutely spectacular JF moment when Barnabas’s open, carefree expression drains away forever as he asks Josette in sheer bewilderment, Why? Why did you do it?

For once in this show they did get the dueling etiquette right. And Jeremiah has a beautiful pair of riding gloves. Since he is the one challenged, Barnabas correctly offers him his choice of weapons.

[dom]

Yeah, Magnus, I have to wonder how differently Barnabas might have reacted had it been Phyllis Wick that was accused of witchcraft having just arrived as governess, and not under suspicious circumstances. Or if Phyllis had died in the carriage accident and there was no scapegoat to accuse of witchcraft at all. I lean toward the notion that Barn would have been sympathetic to anyone in the scapegoat position and of course to Ben regardless. I really don't have any trouble understanding Barn's lack of sympathy in 1967 -- all the time in the box, etc.

[DarkLady]

Interesting idea, MT. I agree with dom that Barnabas would have shown sympathy for any underdog. We don't really know what Phyllis Wick would have been like--for one thing, she wouldn't have gone around making foolish predictions.

[dom]

Barn hasn't really had all that much interaction with Vicki, now that I think about it.

[Gothick]

The biggest problem with the storylines set in "the past," for this viewer, has always been the inability for the infamous Dan Curtis rule "only 7 actors per episode, MAX," to accommodate the realities of 18th and 19th century upper-class life.  I would think that the Old House would have had a regular staff of between ten and fifteen at a minimum.  I don't know how many the Jeffersons had at Monticello but that would be a good rule of thumb.  In 1897 with the much large household in the "New House" I would think there would have been twenty at least.  In 1897, [spoiler]when Judith coldly informs Beth that her services are no longer required, I'm always like, "Bitch, please... who else is going to fetch and carry for you around there?"[/spoiler]

Fortunately I mostly manage to "suspend disbelief" and "pretend" there are loads of servants around just out of camera range...

G.

[dom]

Natalie says in ep #385 to Nathan when they hear a knock on the front door, "One of us had better answer it Lieutenant, I have learned not to wait for the servants in this house to perform their simple duties."

[MagnusTrask]

I don't get the sense of the Old House being very large, not for a mansion.   Look at it and take that portico away in your mind...  The entryway is more cramped than many ordinary suburban houses (though I know that's budget problems, and perhaps they want us to imagine it's bigger).   Imagine a large staff coming and going through that little corridor, up and down those stairs, trying not to bump into each other...

[DarkLady]

Actually, servants would never have been allowed to use the front stairs. They were supposed to be invisible. There would have been a back staircase, probably near the kitchen, that they would have to use.

I've seen one or two old-time New England houses. Even those of prosperous families were fairly small.

[dom]

I had a friend whose (who's?) house had a servants staircase that was no longer in use. I didn't even know it was there. Once I found out it existed I begged him to let me use it. I did. It was a real-life DS moment for me, lol. I thought of it as a secret passage way.

[DarkLady]

I'm sooooo jealous!

[Gothick]

Actually, now I think of it, Natalie also mentioned Cook at one point--maybe more than once.  I would have loved to have seen her.  A thin, vinegary sort is what I envision, as opposed to the Mrs. Hudson type.

It would be interesting to count out the bare minimum of staff for an establishment the size of (Old House) Collinwood.  Both Mrs. Collins and the Countess would have had their own personal maids--of course, we had Angelique.  Joshua, I'm sure, would have had a valet, and Barnabas and Jeremiah probably would have shared a manservant between them (lol, I wrote that sentence IN ALL INNOCENCE--are you listening, MB?).  There would have been a housekeeper who would have been Mrs. Collins's go-between with all the other staff.  Riggs probably worked in the stables in addition to doing heavy work, and the same with Ben.  They might have kept on someone specific to take care of the horses (I have no idea how many a family like the Collins would have owned, but they would certainly have had a "trap," and perhaps a fine carriage for driving to Church).  The Cook would have had at least one girl, possibly two, to fetch water, chop veg, etc.

So, you see, it does add up.  The rooms, in real life, would have been crowded and noisy.  I visited Herman Melville's home and they told us just how many people (mostly unmarried female relations) lived there and the incredible thing was that Melville had his own room--his study, where he did his writing.  The door had a lock and he had the only key.  Now that was luxury.

Dom, that house sounds fabulous.  It makes me think of in PT 1970 when Barnabas shows Carolyn the coffin room in the cellar and she breathes, enchanted, "I never even knew this room existed!"  which is hard to believe, given that the door to it is right off the entrance way to her house, but given Will and Carolyn, who knows?  There were distractions...

G.