1897 Collins family

[Cassandra Blair]

?!?This has been on my mind since the first time I saw the 1897 storyline a couple years ago.

Do you think that Edward and Judith have the same mother as Quentin and Carl?  There seems to be almost a generation between these duos, and their emotional makeup also seems to differ.  Edward and Judith are both no-nonsense, stern, morally upright Victorians (with a bit of priggishness, IMHO), while Carl and Quentin both seem more free spirited and forward thinking than their elder siblings.

Perhaps this can be attributed to the age gap, or the fact that much younger siblings may sometimes be more spoiled and indulged than their older counterparts.  

I'm starting to think that their father (do we know his  name?) must've been married more than once.  Is there anything revealed on the show that would affirm or negate this, does anyone know? I don't recall any reference to the parents, but then my memory ain't what it used to be!

Also - what ages do you think these four characters are?

Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated!

[Luciaphile]

Perhaps this can be attributed to the age gap, or the fact that much younger siblings may sometimes be more spoiled and indulged than their older counterparts.

Couple of possibilities.  Same mama, but miscarriages in between.  Same mama, and surprise babies after she and papa thought they were done.  Same mama had more than the four kids and the ones in between Edward, Judith and Quentin, Carl died.  All perfectly plausible given the times and state of medical science.

 Also - what ages do you think these four characters are?

Quentin's definitely 30.  That's stated somewhere in one of the episodes.  I'm guessing Carl's 27 or 28ish.  Supposedly Edward is the eldest, although the ages of the actors don't bear that out at all.  I would guess Edward and Judith are supposed to be late to mid-40s with a few years between them

Continuity-wise this all gets shot to hell at a later point, but by then they're clearly writing this stuff without a net.

Luciaphil

[scout75]

Did you ever see The Sons of Katie Elder? John Wayne is, like, 60, and has an 18-year-old for a brother--not to mention Dean Martin and Earl Holliman.

[Happybat]

Quentin's definitely 30.  That's stated somewhere in one of the episodes.  
Luciaphil

Hmmm ... I thought Quentin was 27.  Wasn't there a mention of him being born in 1870?  Or maybe my memory is just playing tricks on me; Dark Shadows does that to you.  

Anyway, given that there is no mention of the Collins clan's parents, there are a lot of possibilities here.  Since women frequently died in childbed back then, it is also possible that Edward and Judith had a different mother.  Considering how different their temperaments are, this wouldn't be at all surprising.

What intrigues me more is who their great grandparents might have been.  We know now that "Grandmamamma" Edith was born sometime before 1807, which suggest that whoever sired her Collins husband was possibly of the same generation as Barnabas.  It doesn't seem as if the B:man had any other siblings except Sarah, so I'm not sure who that could have been, unless Joshua had more children by another wife.  Of course, we don't know if Jeremiah might have sired some children of his own, too.  

SPOILERS:

We know that Edith married Gabriel sometime in the 1820s or 1830s, which would arguably imply that Edith's children (and the 1897 Collins brood's parents) must have been born between roughly 1825 and 1840 if Edward and Judith are at to be at least 40 something in 1897.  Given the story, it seems that Gabriel could not have been a direct descendant of Joshua or Naomi.  Maybe he was Jeremiah's son, which means Gabriel must have been born no later than 1795.  Of course, there is nothing to suggest that that Joshua didn't have more than one brother.  

Ugh, I need some lunch to refuel these little gray cells!  

[jennifer]

Did you ever see The Sons of Katie Elder? John Wayne is, like, 60, and has an 18-year-old for a brother--not to mention Dean Martin and Earl Holliman.

look at Barnabas and Sarah he's is playing a younger role than his age but sarah is 10 and he looks 35 at least!
TV shows are great for other things too On Dallas
Charlene Tilton was a pint size while all her relatives towered over her! it can happen but just looks a little funny!
also found it stange that these four were sibs but they never address how and isn't really needed to tell story!

jennifer

[Cassandra Blair]

Given the story, it seems that Gabriel could not have been a direct descendant of Joshua or Naomi.  Maybe he was Jeremiah's son, which means Gabriel must have been born no later than 1795.  

I think the 1840 storyline reveals that Gabriel was Daniel Collins' son.

[Cassandra Blair]

look at Barnabas and Sarah he's is playing a younger role than his age but sarah is 10 and he looks 35 at least!

35 at least - LOL!!!  This one always had me a bit perturbed too, esp. since Naomi Collins didn't look like she was more than five to ten years older than Barnabas.  Guess she must've been a child bride!  ?!?

I suppose there is stuff like this in lots of families, and second marriages wouldn't have been too uncommon in the 19th century, what with the shorter life spans people had then.

I'm of the opinion that 1897 Quentin may have been descended from 1840 Quentin somehow or other  (there is a slight resemblance there).  Maybe his and Carl's mother was the second wife, and a Collins cousin.  After all, didn't Roger make a reference to his 'incestors' at some point?  

[Raineypark]

Continuity-wise this all gets shot to hell at a later point, but by then they're clearly writing this stuff without a net.  

ROTFLMAO!!!!

If ever there was a 'last word' about this show THAT'S IT!!

Pat yourself of the back, Luciaphil!

Raineypark

[VictoriaWintersRox]

I'm of the opinion that 1897 Quentin may have been descended from 1840 Quentin somehow or other  (there is a slight resemblance there).  Maybe his and Carl's mother was the second wife, and a Collins cousin.  After all, didn't Roger make a reference to his 'incestors' at some point?  

Quentin of 1840 is Gabriel's brother. Gabriel and Edith had a few children. Quentin of 1897 is one of those children's children, which would make Quentin of 1840 the great uncle of Quentin of 1897 I think.

[Luciaphile]

Hmmm ... I thought Quentin was 27.  Wasn't there a mention of him being born in 1870?  Or maybe my memory is just playing tricks on me; Dark Shadows does that to you.  

In this case, Happybat, it was playing tricks on me.  You're right--my brain was on the fritz when I wrote he was supposedly 30.  Sorry 'bout that (hadn't had my coffee yet).  

Luciaphil

[Gerard]

Quentin's age was mentioned as being 27.  I'm gonna say that Carl is 24.  Why?  Ah, no particular reason.  I'll peg Edward as being 40.  I'm basing that on Jamison's age, figuring that Edward probably married no later than his mid-to-late twenties.  Judith?  I'll make her just over 40 by a few years.  Why such wide age differences?  At that time, it wasn't uncommon for married couples, especially of the upper hoidy-toidy class, to sleep in separate rooms.  And I always figured that all four siblings did have the same parents.  Grandmamamamamama is obviously in her eighties, at least half-way through.

Gerard

[kuanyin]

I'm starting to think that their father (do we know his  name?)

The cast listing I refer to says Geoffrey Collins was the father of the four. I was going to paste the website in, but for some reason I have lost right click capabilities here. They come back elsewhere, so I guess it is a bandwidth thing?

[The Ghost of Sarah Collins]

?!?This has been on my mind since the first time I saw the 1897 storyline a couple years ago.

Do you think that Edward and Judith have the same mother as Quentin and Carl?  There seems to be almost a generation between these duos, and their emotional makeup also seems to differ.  Edward and Judith are both no-nonsense, stern, morally upright Victorians (with a bit of priggishness, IMHO), while Carl and Quentin both seem more free spirited and forward thinking than their elder siblings.

Perhaps this can be attributed to the age gap, or the fact that much younger siblings may sometimes be more spoiled and indulged than their older counterparts.  

I'm starting to think that their father (do we know his  name?) must've been married more than once.  Is there anything revealed on the show that would affirm or negate this, does anyone know? I don't recall any reference to the parents, but then my memory ain't what it used to be!

Also - what ages do you think these four characters are?

Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated!

I believe Edward, Judith, Quentin and Carl did have the same parents, it would have been mentioned had they not.
So I would arrange Edith's grandchildren as follows because it is the most logical in my opinion...

The obvious eldest is:
Edward, he is mentioned as being eldest so I would register his age at 45 years it was not unusual for a man his years to have a child Jamison's age.
Second is:
Judith, I would estimate her age to be slightly younger than Edward by one year, since we are speaking in terms of Collins age and not "RL"
Third in line:
Must be Quentin, he appears to have the middle child syndrome, leading me to give his age 33 years.
Leaving the youngest:
Which is the perpetual child with a joy buzzer Carl, who's age  if according to his behavior would be 12, although in his case being 30 years.

[Midnite]

I was going to paste the website in, but for some reason I have lost right click capabilities here. They come back elsewhere, so I guess it is a bandwidth thing?

Sorry about that, kuanyin; right click has been turned off for a while.  But you can still copy/cut and paste using your browser's dropdown menu under Edit, or by using your keyboard.  The only task yet to be resolved is copying the montages.

Oh, and it's not about bandwidth-- it's a security thing.  We had a, uh, prior problem.

[Connie]

Quentin is 27-28 in 1897.  We're stuck with that 'cause his year of birth is given as 1870.  That's fine though, because Selby was 27 when he started on the show and turned 28 soon after.
Even though Edward is referred to as the eldest, he is often referred to as the eldest son.  Back then women weren't given as much consideration when it came to family pecking order, so to speak.  
I consider Judith to be the eldest child, followed by Edward.  I put her at around 45, and Edward at around 42-43.  (It's somewhat conceivable - people didn't age as well back then).
That leaves Carl.  I'm sure many would disagree, but I think he's older than Quentin.  Quentin is the youngest.  I feel he was spoiled by his mother, and he was her favorite.  Judith and Edward began resenting him from the moment he was born.
I think Carl is a couple of years older than Quentin -- around 30-31.  It's usually assumed he's younger, but that's because of his childish ways, silly antics, and a lack of intelligence in certain areas.  I think he wasn't quite normal when he was born, and had some delays.

So...there ya go.  (For what it's worth)  LOL

-CLC