Author Topic: Discuss - Ep #1238  (Read 2486 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Watching Project

  • Guest
Discuss - Ep #1238
« on: June 16, 2011, 05:00:00 PM »
Robservations #1238

FAREWELL, MARY COOPER & KATE JACKSON!

Mary Cooper and Kate Jackson make their final appearances on DS in this ep...
(Though Kate Jackson would begin work on NoDS 5 days after this ep originally aired...)

Offline MagnusTrask

  • * 100000 Poster!! *
  • DIVINE SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • ***************
  • Posts: 29353
  • Karma: +4533/-74790
  • Gender: Male
  • u r summoned by the powers of everlasting light!
    • View Profile
    • The Embryo Room
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2011, 05:16:23 PM »
Bramwell must have known Melanie was Josette's daughter, tight?   He was Josette's elder child, and would have been around during the pregnancy and birth, even if Melanie got to go to the big house immediately after.   Bramwell's a lot older than Melanie, and wouldn't have been clueless during all this.

Farewell Daphne.   No one has connected her death with the Curse yet.
"One can never go wrong with weapons and drinks as fashion accessories."-- the eminent and clearly quotable Dark Shadows fan and board mod known as Mysterious Benefactor

Offline DarkLady

  • DSF God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2727
  • Karma: +6/-408
    • View Profile
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2011, 05:21:56 PM »
Well, PT Josette certainly has had a checkered career! I wonder if she was as demure and virginal as RT Josette when she married Barnabas. But pain and loss abound in this lose-lose situation: Josette turned to Justin in her grief, and when Julia found out, she probably felt Josette betrayed her personally as well as The Collins Family. That would go quite a ways toward explaining Julia's stiff-backed piety. And poor Flora never knew. At least the last we see of Josette, she's trading glares with Julia!

For Melanie, the main point of the story is that her parents were in love. Her morals are as tail-first as Bramwell's, so it must be hereditary!

It's kind of sweet to imagine little Melanie toddling around after the older Bramwell. Judging from the few times we've seen them together, he must have been very patient with her. She implies that Morgan and Gabriel didn't have time for her but that Quentin was nicer.

Wonderful work by KJ in Daphne's recovery and death scene, and by JF too. So very sad.

MT, I was in the middle of writing when your post appeared. I have a feeling that Josette went off to Boston when she started to show, probably giving everyone--including Bramwell--the excuse that Barnabas's estate was hopelessly entangled and it would take her forever to straighten things out. If Bramwell had any idea that Melanie was his half-sister, I'm sure he would have spoken about it, if only to her and his mother.

My private theory about Daphne was that she died of grief over Bramwell's neglect. But was her death connected with the Curse? Interesting idea. It might have been in a way--Bramwell always refused to take part in the lottery, so maybe Brutus was punishing him by striking Daphne down. After all, she was taken ill at Collinwood, the seat of Brutus's power.

Offline Lydia

  • The Tattooed Lady
  • FULL ASCENDANT
  • ********
  • Posts: 7945
  • Karma: +21178/-65913
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 10:43:22 AM »
The Justin-Josette affair is terrifically interesting, from the point of view of everyone affected by it.

We have always been told what a fine, upright man Justin was, and now we learn that he cheated on his wife, fathered a child out of wedlock, and foisted the child on his unsuspecting wife.  Josette glides over the actual infidelity - Melanie just sort of happened, apparently - but babies don't just sort of happen, even in parallel time, as we have learned from Catherine's situation.  Did Justin sleep with any other women besides Josette?  Josette believes that she herself was somebody special in his life - but Justin (said Josette) was always very kind - so maybe he was kind to other women as well.  Maybe infidelity relieved the stress that the knowledge of the Room's existence put on him.  Or maybe I myself am being kind in suggesting that.

Meanwhile, Josette is abruptly knocked off her pedestal.  The woman whom Barnabas loved throughout the centuries slept with another man practically the minute Barnabas died.  Of course it's not like that.  It would probably have been several weeks after Barnabas died, and the Josette of parallel time isn't the Josette of our time, so she's not exactly the woman whom Barnabas loved throughout the centuries.  Nevertheless, I daresay the writers were amused.  As for the timing, from the way Josette told the story, it seemed that Bramwell was still a child, and from the fact that he didn't know that Melanie was Josette's child, I'd guess that he was age three or under.  But DarkLady's right that Bramwell is much older than Melanie, so her idea that he didn't go to Boston with his mother must be correct - but it's still difficult for me to swallow.

Flora - poor Flora!  So devoted to Justin, true to him in all the years after he emerged insane from the Room.  Never knowing that her husband had cheated on her.  Always believing he was the finest man she ever knew.  (No, I'm not quoting anything she said.  But it's obvious she felt that way.)  Should she have suspected something?  I don't know.

And Julia.  Protecting her brother's name, and desperately protecting the feelings of her sister-in-law.  Suddenly the friendship between Julia and Flora is far more moving.  It sounds as though Julia didn't learn the truth until after Justin went into the Room, because apparently she never discussed the affair with him - and, Julia being Julia, I find it hard believe that she would not have confronted Justin.  What must she have felt!

If Josette had settled in Boston with Bramwell and baby Melanie, would Bramwell have ever met Catherine?

Wonderful work by KJ in Daphne's recovery and death scene
Yes indeed.

By the way, when I watched this episode in 1971, my mother was sitting in the same room - the only episode for which that was the case for me.  It was an excruciating experience.  Especially the snort that came when Josette said, "Boston was another world."  I can guarantee that Boston was not another world to my mother.

Offline Joeytrom

  • Senior Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 1053
  • Karma: +98/-946
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2011, 01:28:51 PM »
1970 PT had Barnabas' death in 1830 according to his tombstone. but this makes his death around 1820 or so.

Could this be a different parallel time then 1970?

Offline DarkLady

  • DSF God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2727
  • Karma: +6/-408
    • View Profile
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2011, 03:52:56 PM »
Could this be a different parallel time then 1970?

That's entirely possible--and a cool idea. When the subject of PT first came up, none other that Professor Timothy Eliot Stokes told us about the theory. He said that there were multiple bands of parallel time. So maybe the PT 1970 that Barnbas and Julia got involved in was part of a totally different time band from the 1840 PT that RT Desmond and Leticia saw in the Upstairs Parlor.

Offline DarkLady

  • DSF God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2727
  • Karma: +6/-408
    • View Profile
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2011, 04:13:00 PM »
Lydia, wonderful post about the Justin-Josette affair. I'm sure you're right on target!

If Josette went to Boston alone (alone with Justin, that is), Bramwell must have been packed off to stay with his relations at the Great House. Strange to imagine the "boys" as teenagers. Maybe all four of them were even tutored together--I can imagine Justin arranging this for Josette's sake. But I'll bet this is when the enmity between Morgan and Bramwell began--family hatreds tend to have deep and bitter roots.

And poor Flora indeed! I wonder if she would have nursed Justin so devotedly and faithfully if she had known he had been unfaithful. And after he went mad, she never even thought of finding consolation for herself with another man. Maybe she thought no man could be finer than her husband, who had willingly sacrificed himself for all of them.

Justin (and Josette) must have concealed the affair very well. I suspect Julia didn't go through his old clothes and find the note until after he had done his time in the Locked Room. She could hardly take out her anger on him then. No wonder she became so protective of Flora, and no wonder she was so full of suppressed anger. And no wonder she could hardly bear even to look at Josette.

Offline MagnusTrask

  • * 100000 Poster!! *
  • DIVINE SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • ***************
  • Posts: 29353
  • Karma: +4533/-74790
  • Gender: Male
  • u r summoned by the powers of everlasting light!
    • View Profile
    • The Embryo Room
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2011, 06:34:09 PM »
The circumstances of Barnabas's death aren't gone into, but it sounds as if the way Barnabas's life went, including his death, made Bramwell very bitter toward the rest of the family.   It seems very unlikely to me that Bramwell, at a time like this, would have been sent to Collinwood to be looked after, while Josette was off in Boston, or that they'd have him.   All those indignities heaped upon Barnabas would have just recently happened, perhaps eeven hastening his death in some way...  Justin could have insisted, I suppose, knowing the truth, but I forget if he knew.   I doubt Bramwell would have been left to fend for himself in the Old House, or that there was someone like a "babysitter", but who knows...
"One can never go wrong with weapons and drinks as fashion accessories."-- the eminent and clearly quotable Dark Shadows fan and board mod known as Mysterious Benefactor

Offline DarkLady

  • DSF God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2727
  • Karma: +6/-408
    • View Profile
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2011, 06:39:39 PM »
That's also a possibility, MT. After the duel, Morgan tells us that Bramwell is the best shot in the family. So maybe he did have to fend for himself while Josette was in Boston, to the point of having to hunt for food--either for himself or for himself and Josette too, when she was home.

But then again, Flora and/or Julia might have had him stay at the Great House for the sake of the "blessed family name" and to avoid gossip in the village.

Offline Lydia

  • The Tattooed Lady
  • FULL ASCENDANT
  • ********
  • Posts: 7945
  • Karma: +21178/-65913
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2011, 08:18:44 AM »
Thanks for the kind words, DarkLady!

I don't think that Justin, having done Josette the kindness of offering to accompany her to Boston, would have then have failed to offer to have young Bramwell stay at Collinwood while they were gone.  I think probably there was already friction between Bramwell and the Collinwood boys, and I like the idea that putting them in a schoolroom together exacerbated the friction into something explosive.

Offline Uncle Roger

  • * 200000, 250000 & 300000 Poster!! *
  • DIVINE SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • ***************
  • Posts: 32742
  • Karma: +7/-130973
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 05:53:26 PM »
Well, if the young Bramwell was as self-absorbed as the character we saw on the show, it doesn't seem impossible that he wouldn't have noticed the first trimester of Josette's pregnancy. Back then, Boston would have indeed been another world (although not an NBC soap) on many levels.  And sometimes people simply do not see what they do not want to see
Fade Away and Radiate

Offline MagnusTrask

  • * 100000 Poster!! *
  • DIVINE SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • ***************
  • Posts: 29353
  • Karma: +4533/-74790
  • Gender: Male
  • u r summoned by the powers of everlasting light!
    • View Profile
    • The Embryo Room
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2011, 06:19:00 PM »
Do we know that Bramwell didn't go to Boston?

Roger, I just "cursed" you on a friendly impulse, then realized it might have been a year or several till I knew that curses here were a positive thing, and cures negative.   Just thought I'd tell you...
"One can never go wrong with weapons and drinks as fashion accessories."-- the eminent and clearly quotable Dark Shadows fan and board mod known as Mysterious Benefactor

Offline DarkLady

  • DSF God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2727
  • Karma: +6/-408
    • View Profile
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 06:32:16 PM »
I'm pretty sure Bramwell didn't go to Boston with his mother and Justin. He would have been kind of a third wheel, no?

Offline MagnusTrask

  • * 100000 Poster!! *
  • DIVINE SUPERNAL SCEPTER
  • ***************
  • Posts: 29353
  • Karma: +4533/-74790
  • Gender: Male
  • u r summoned by the powers of everlasting light!
    • View Profile
    • The Embryo Room
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 06:44:00 PM »
I envy you your memory.... Did Justin go to Boston?   I pictured Bramwell there, because it seemed he'd have to be with his mother (depending on his age) and Collinwood seemed like hostile territory.
"One can never go wrong with weapons and drinks as fashion accessories."-- the eminent and clearly quotable Dark Shadows fan and board mod known as Mysterious Benefactor

Offline DarkLady

  • DSF God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2727
  • Karma: +6/-408
    • View Profile
Re: Discuss - Ep #1238
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 07:15:41 PM »
No envy required, really! When Josette tells Melanie about herself, she says that she (J.) and Justin went to Boston together more than once after Barnabas's death to sort out his estate, and Melanie was conceived during one of those journeys. Earlier in this thread, Lydia and I speculated that Justin arranged for Bramwell to be schooled with his own three boys in the mansion at the top of Widows' Hill. If so, the hatred between Bramwell and Morgan, like many family feuds, was of long standing.