DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

Members' Mausoleum => Calendar Events / Announcements Archive => Calendar Events / Announcements '24 I => Calendar Events / Announcements '02 I => Topic started by: Brian on July 01, 2002, 04:39:49 AM

Title: eBay sellers
Post by: Brian on July 01, 2002, 04:39:49 AM: >:(

Hi, Gang. As a long-time eBay bidder, I want to share my opinion that a seller named avaliotiko may be taking advantage of loyal DARK SHADOWS fans by offering items for sale at highly ridiculous prices. The claim is that this seller knows market value of collectibles--but after spending the last two years viewing and bidding on eBay (and other auction sites), I find this seller's prices completely NOT in line with what else is available. So, I only say: BEWARE!!

Brian
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Brian on July 01, 2002, 04:51:15 AM: Maybe I'm the one who is wrong--but please check out this auction and decide for yourself if "the price is right."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1546651400

Brian
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Brian on July 01, 2002, 05:31:22 AM: Please make up your own mind without consideration of my opinion. Thanks, Brian.
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Nancy on July 01, 2002, 05:55:37 AM: Quote
Please make up your own mind without consideration of my opinion. Thanks, Brian.

Brian, I don't think your opinion on a price is not obstructing anything or anyone. I think buyers would appreciate your input since you are experienced at purchasing items on ebay. I certainly would. People are free to consider or ignore your opinion so I don't see where you are obstructing anyone's rights. At that price, chances are that interested buyers are going to scope out the market themselves before committing to that kind of money and they will learn it can be had much cheaper if that is the case. I don't think I've ever seen any DS poster go for that kind of money ever. The seller will most likely find out himself he is asking too much.

Nancy
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on July 01, 2002, 07:06:38 AM: Quote
Please make up your own mind without consideration of my opinion. Thanks, Brian.

Brian,

While we discourage finger pointing on the forum, the intended spirit of that guideline doesn't really apply in this particular situation. You're expressing an opinion regarding the pricing of a certain set of DS memorabilia and warning people that it's your opinion to beware of such pricing practices. Personally, I've collected DS memorabilia for close to 35 years, read the ads in TWODS and ITOH, the various fan catalogues, and have both bought and sold on eBay - and frankly, I nearly fell off of my chair when I saw that expected starting bid! :o But that's purely my opinion.

While it's certainly true that the person in question is well within his/her rights to set a starting bid at whatever price he/she chooses, that doesn't quite mean that the rest of us have to be willing to pay it. ;) But as Nancy quite rightly points out, ultimately the market will be the decision maker as to whether or not this individual is overpricing his/her items - not anything that any of us might say.
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Gerard on July 01, 2002, 03:31:49 PM: Quote
Please make up your own mind without consideration of my opinion. Thanks, Brian.

Well, I guess the seller is right about the free market. Ironically, he'll find out that the free market won't tolerate prices that high and he'll have no choice but to lower them - IMMENSELY.

Gerard
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Brian on July 02, 2002, 05:29:53 AM: Thanks for your comments. I still think he/she is WAY overpriced--but he/she will soon learn the reality of DS fandom/bidding. . .we're not all rich. ;D
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on July 02, 2002, 06:13:38 AM: Quote
we're not all rich. ;D
Even if we were, it wouldn't mean that we're also brain dead.

Oops! Did I actually do more than just think that comment? [thinking2]
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Julia99 on July 02, 2002, 07:12:45 PM: Would someone kindly help J99 off the floor, she's still down after seeing that bidding/asking price. . wowsie! $1600!! Is this parallel time?
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Karen_#2 on July 02, 2002, 07:51:24 PM: Quote
>:(

--but after spending the last two years viewing and bidding on eBay (and other auction sites), I find this seller's prices completely NOT in line with what else is available.
Brian

Hi Brian,

I too have watched this seller over the last several months since be began listing on eBay, and have been rather amused at his asking prices. :o

Indeed, he does offer some unusual items time to time, and most are all in excellent condition. However, his interpretation of "free market" will hit him well when he realizes what "the market" will offer him for his collectibles. They are only worth what one is willing to pay, not his perception of it.

I'm sorry you got into an online hassle with him/her. He should thank you for the feedback. Notice a lot of those items are not selling, eh? ;)

Karen #2
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Darren Gross on July 02, 2002, 08:28:16 PM: I had emailed him suggestions about his prices a week or so back. I get the feeling he's received several of these kind of emails.

What I don't understand is why he doesn't just start them at $1.00 and make them reserve auctions? if he really won't sell them for under $1600 (insanity) than he wouldn't be obligated to make the sale unless bids reached that amount. In a state of bidding madness, someone might go that high but to start off with such a high amount seems imprudent.

Imagine how much he'd want for a print of the film! I mean, he was asking $75 for a single Quentin fold out poster card!
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on July 02, 2002, 09:26:11 PM: Quote
but to start off with such a high amount seems imprudent.

To say the least.

Quote
he was asking $75 for a single Quentin fold out poster card!

Well, just to put some perspective on how out of step this person seems to be with current pricing: Back in the '80s, when DS memorabilia went for premium prices, an entire mint condition set of the 1897 posters would sell for $200-$300. But since the advent of Web sites like eBay, I've seen complete mint sets sell for less than $75. So, by this person's way of thinking, I suppose we shouldn't be surprised to see him/her ask $1,200 for a set ($75x16 posters) - which would be 4-6 times what was asked in the '80s, when DS memorabilia was really a sellers market!

:-/
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Brian on July 03, 2002, 05:36:11 AM: In one of my messages to this sellar, I mentioned I had "won" eBay auctions for vintage movie posters of HODS (30"x40") and NODS (40"x60"), both rolled and on what I would call "card-stock", for $85.00 and $49.00, respectively. (I'm still in awe that I was able to find these posters and have been able to put them up in my living room--albeit with tacks. . .I can't afford to have them framed--yet!!--but that's another story.) The sellar pretty much told me that I knew nothing about "collectibles." (It doesn't help that most of my other bids within the last week or so have been in the range of $5.00-$10.00--but that's also another story--RICHARD RODGERS' items are not going for outrageous prices on eBay) Okay, so much for his opinion.

Anyway, I've seen copies inferior to mine of those HODS/NODS posters go for much more--and more power to the sellers of same--but let's all try to be reasonable about this stuff. (I guess WE are!--but not everyone in the world.)

I'm rambling for no other reason than I can't believe someone would think a DS fan would pay nearly $2000 for such a collection: but the real kick in the face will be when we next check eBay and find that someone actually did pay that much!!! LOL. :-[
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Karen_#2 on July 03, 2002, 05:49:01 AM: Quote
In one of my messages to this sellar, I mentioned I had "won" eBay auctions for vintage movie posters of HODS (30"x40") and NODS (40"x60"), both rolled and on what I would call "card-stock", for $85.00 and $49.00, respectively.

Hey Brian,
According to a recent memorabilia guide I picked up at the Fest the other day ("A Guide to Collecting Dark Shadows Memorabilla" by Stockel and Weidner), the HODS and NODS movie posters you describe seem to go anywhere from $35-$150. This printing was dated 1992, well after the DS "rush" of memorabilia in the 80's.

I didn't see pricing references in Craig Hamrick's DS Collectible book, because I just skimmed it.

This guy's pricing is pretty far out, you're not alone in your thinking.

Karen #2
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Brian on July 03, 2002, 05:53:11 AM: Just for fun, I'm going to mention a few of my DS items--with which I have no plans to part--I'd like to hear from some of you what you might be willing to pay:

1) View Master reel set--mint condition;

2) Original copy of Sam Hall's TV Guide article: "In Case You're Curious. . ."

3) Original copy of TV Guide article: "Where Have All The Werewolves Gone?"

LET'S HEAR ALL THOSE HIGH BIDS!! (LOL).

Brian
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Mark Rainey on July 03, 2002, 07:53:42 AM: Quote
1) View Master reel set--mint condition;

2) Original copy of Sam Hall's TV Guide article: "In Case You're Curious. . ."

3) Original copy of TV Guide article: "Where Have All The Werewolves Gone?"

1) 1,699

2) 1,699

3) 1,699

See if that don't just floor ya.

[shadow=maroon,left,300]--Mark[/shadow]

(Note all of the above prices are in Japanese Yen. Conversion rates available upon request.)
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on July 03, 2002, 08:12:55 AM: Quote
1) View Master reel set--mint condition;

These used to sell for $75-$150, and sometimes even more! But the last time I noticed a set on eBay - it sold for only $20!!

Quote
2) Original copy of Sam Hall's TV Guide article: "In Case You're Curious. . ."

3) Original copy of TV Guide article: "Where Have All The Werewolves Gone?"

LET'S HEAR ALL THOSE HIGH BIDS!! (LOL).

Not from me on these two - I already own them. [wink2] And the thing about #2 is that it's probably been devalued because so many people have scanned and put it up on their Web sites. The photo of Frid from hoDS isn't even that rare anymore. But I can't honestly say that I've seen #3 anywhere on the Web, so it would probably fetch a better price. [winkb]
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Darren Gross on July 03, 2002, 08:14:04 AM: That's be about $16.99 each. Basically if you just knock the decimal over two places in the yen, you get the US currency price. ie: 1699 yen = 16.99

For UK pounds, I usually just double the US amount. It's a bit over, but acceptable.
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: RingoCollins on July 03, 2002, 08:40:31 AM: Would ya list the dates on those TV Guides, please?

Thanky,
Ringo
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Dawn on July 03, 2002, 10:01:00 AM: Had to laugh at Mark's yen comment. :D It certainly couldn't be US dollars!!! Dawn
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Bobubas on July 03, 2002, 04:17:46 PM: My definition of a collectable is this: A collectable is a concrete object that has obtained an abstract value.That value will differ, sometimes GREATLY, from person to person.

I've known this seller for years, dating back to the now prehistoric days of trading via the Dark Shadows classifieds.(early to mid 1990's) I have always known this dealer/collector be a fair and honest person. Obviously he is not in tune with the current market for his collectables. It could be that he really doesn't want to part with the items, and that is why he has placed such high opening bids on them. However, whatever his reasons are for starting his auctions out at the prices he is, his character should not be in question. As someone else on this board pointed out, a collectable is only worth what someone is willing to give you for it. Nobody is holding a gun to any of our heads and telling us we have to bid. ;D Perhaps when he gets tired of paying listing fees for items that are not selling he will get the hint his prices are to high.

Bob
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Midnite on July 04, 2002, 04:23:50 AM: Quote
However, whatever his reasons are for starting his auctions out at the prices he is, his character should not be in question.

I agree, Bob, I appreciate your input, and I don't think anyone intended to cast aspersions on this person's character. I reread the messages, and posters are saying that fans may be taken advantage of because they're misled by the asking prices, but not that the seller has set out to mislead anyone. I realize that sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but I think Brian was giving his opinion about the person's asking prices, out of concern for the rest of us, and I sincerely hope no one came away with the impression that anyone here has called the seller dishonest or unfair. Yet it's probably best that we not continue to make fun of the prices nor speculate about the person's reasons since it sets a bad precedent about discussing other fans, particularly since this person is not present on the forums to defend or explain his choices. And PLEASE, if there's something in this topic or any other that troubles someone reading the forum, by all means continue to call it to my attention cuz I'm the first to admit that I make mistakes and could be completely misinterpreting something I've read.

The purpose of the guideline about fingerpointing was due to a practice we'd seen online in which fans take fights from one forum onto another one by describing or even copying exchanges, and at its worst extreme by posting private correspondence. What this tends to do is fuel disagreements by involving more people in them, whereas our policy here has always been the opposite-- we prefer that personal disagreements between individuals be taken off the board rather than brought onto it. For this reason, and with the poster's permission, there's been some slight editing in this topic regarding an off-board discussion, and other posters may find that (only) the quotes within their messages have been changed to reflect these edits.

Thanks!
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: RingoCollins on July 04, 2002, 07:31:10 AM: Quote

that sounds like I'm splitting hairs, !

Again with the hair thing! [or is that HARE thing in your case, midnite? ;D]

..but as for the ebay thing - I have spent much of my lunch money for years there [mostly beatle stuff, but some DS] and it is always buyer beware - and only pay what ya think it is worth TO YOU! A seller or dealer will always try to get maximum value for any product [thus the auction], and the buyers that pay more than the going rates for any item do so at their own 'penalty'. I think both Brian and Bob'us are helping to cause buyers to become more educated and aware customers. Most collectors follow the rule 'collect it because ya love it', [not as an investment], but every collector needs to be aware of both the actual, personal value and the market value or going rate of an item. The hardest thing to do is walk away from something I REALLY WANT because a dealer has it over priced, but that walk away factor can be satisfying, too. 8)

[by the way, I am actively looking for original Beatle sunglasses right now, and willing to pay 'market value' for them.]

cheers,
Ringo
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Brian on July 04, 2002, 07:26:29 PM: Quote
Would ya list the dates on those TV Guides, please?

Sorry, Ringo, I don't have the TV Guides--only the articles that I cut out of the Guides--so I don't have the dates. I recall (and this is going back through 30 years of memories) that the Sam Hall article was sometime late in the year 1971--maybe October. The other one was sometime in early summer, I think. Of course, after 30 years, I could be all wrong! ?!?

Brian
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on July 05, 2002, 01:20:59 AM: Quote
I recall (and this is going back through 30 years of memories) that the Sam Hall article was sometime late in the year 1971--maybe October. The other one was sometime in early summer, I think. Of course, after 30 years, I could be all wrong! ?!?

The Hall article was in the October 9, 1971 issue. I thought the "Werewolves" article was sometime in April, but maybe I'm thinking of "When Soap Opera Characters Die." I guess one of these days when I'm scanning articles for the archive I'll have to look it up. ;)
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Bobubas on July 05, 2002, 01:44:36 AM: Quote

..but as for the ebay thing - I have spent much of my lunch money for years there [mostly beatle stuff, but some DS] and it is always buyer beware - and only pay what ya think it is worth TO YOU!

Very well put Ringo. I can't speak for anyone else, but I know for me there have been times where I get caught up in the whole auction thing and have bid higher on an object then I would have paid for it had I been in the presense of the person selling it with real moola in my hand. :)

Quote

A seller or dealer will always try to get maximum value for any product [thus the auction], and the buyers that pay more than the going rates for any item do so at their own 'penalty'. I think both Brian and Bob'us are helping to cause buyers to become more educated and aware customers. Most collectors follow the rule 'collect it because ya love it', [not as an investment], but every collector needs to be aware of both the actual, personal value and the market value or going rate of an item.

Again, I agree with you whole heartedly Ringo. I think Brian making others aware that "in his opinion" a collectable or collectables are priced to high, is not out of bounds. I agree with him 110% that this particular sellers prices are way out of wack in the current DS collectables marketplace.

Having been involved in collecting/dealing Dark Shadows items for the past 12 years, and having had dealers tables at 7 of the 12 Dark Shadows Festivals I've attended, I have often been approached by fellow collectors/dealers and asked my opinion on prices for various collectables that they were considering purchasing/selling. It is very difficult to place a value on an item. There are so many variables that go in to arriving at what is a reasonable value for any item. Let me give you guys an example;
There was a time in the mid 1980s when a photo copy of Ode to Angelique sheet music sold at a festival auction for over $100.00!! Needless to say, it was, at that time, a very scarce piece. Sometime in the mid 1990s on one of my extensive collectibles searches I discovered several copies of original Ode to Angelique sheet music. I had no problem selling them for $90.00 per piece of sheet music. As a matter of fact, the die hard collectors were tripping over one another to obtain their copies. You may ask: How did I come to decide on a selling price of $90.00? Good question....... I took in to account the ludicrous price the photo copy had sold for at auction in the 80's. I also considered the time and effort I had put in to locating the sheet music,(Prior to the internet, I spent countless hours writing letters, making phone calls, and travelling to shows or antique stores in search of memorabilia) as well as the demand there was for it by avid collectors.

Eventually the demand for the Ode to Angelique sheet music diminished and I discounted the remaining pieces I had, much like a store would do with overstocked merchandise. Today, I have seen that same sheet music that I sold for $90.00 only 7-8 years ago sells on eBAY for $15.00-$20.00. The same can be said of the records. In the early to mid 90's some of the more obscure 45 rpm records (Ode to Angelique, I'm Bats About You, Josette's Music Box, The Barnabas Theme) sold for in upwards of $200.00-$275.00.....EACH!! Now, they go for about a fourth of that. In 1995 I traded a MINT Ode to Angelique 45 rpm record and $100.00 cash for my original Josette's Music Box with a reproduction lid. In today's marketplace that would not happen. A dealer would laugh at me if I approached him with this offer, but at that time it was an acceptable trade. The point I'm trying to make is that the marketplace for any collectables changes. It can go up or down, and as I mentioned above, several variables will weigh in which way it goes. Another good example is the 1996 reproduction MPI Josette's Music box. It initially sold for $40.00, and at one point MPI couldn't give the things away. I remember at the 1997 NY fest MPI had a SURPLUS of the music boxes and no one seemed to be buying them. In todays collectables market that same music box sells for a minimum of $100.00,(normally $150.00-$200.00 on eBAY) and one sold at this years festival auction for much more then that!! Why did the reproduction sell so poorly at first, and what caused it to have this sudden attraction with collectors? Here are a couple variables, that in my opinion had an effect on the demand for this item. The airing of Dark Shadows on the Sci Fi channel has attracted a whole new audience, both young and old, who had never seen Dark Shadows before. This is evident by the amount of new people attending festivals the past few years. This past weekend when Kathryn Leigh Scott asked those who were attending a festival for their first time to raise their hands, I believe 60-70% of those in attendance raised their hands. Many of those people are presently watching the series for the very first time. When the Barnabas/Josette storyline aired, I'm sure many of those "newbies" became interested in acquiring a Josette's Music Box. Much the same as the newbies a few years back when that particular story arc also aired. Since those of us who have been involved in fandom through the 80's & 90's had for the most part gobbled up all the original 1970 Josette Music Boxes,what does that leave for an alternative? That's right, the 1996 M.P.I. reproduction. The new fans of the series demand and those 1996 M.P.I. music boxes ended up being the supply ;)

In 1996 I was approached by the editors of the toy magazine "The Toy Shop", and asked to write an article pricing Dark Shadows memorabila. At the time I considered this an awesome responsibility, as The Toy Shop is a very popular magazine with dealers/collectors, and is distributed world wide. My words would be used as a guideline for many collectors in search of Dark Shadows memorabila. I did extensive research on the subject before writing the article and I believe I was (at least at that time) :) in tune with the market for Dark Shadows collectables.

I wish I had the capabilities to scan and post the two page article with photos (it occupied the center of the magazine :)) I wrote, but alas I don't. Perhaps I can send a copy to the Mysterious Benefactor and he/she/(it ;)) could scan it and put it on the board.

I'm not sure if the magazine is archived anywhere, but in the event it is, here is the issue number my article appeared in.
Issue # 136 Vol. 9 No. 23 dated Nov. 8th, 1996

Ok, somehow I went off subject a bit, but hopefully some of this information will help collectors in the future:)
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Bobubas on July 05, 2002, 05:46:13 AM: A follow up to my previous post about the variables of supply and demand. Check out this auction ending this evening for a 1996 MPI Music Box that many fans passed on initally for the $40.00 price. ;D

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1546402153
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on July 05, 2002, 06:53:56 AM: Quote
Check out this auction ending this evening for a 1996 MPI Music Box that many fans passed on initally for the $40.00 price. ;D

Well, IMO they weren't even worth the $44.48 that MPI originally charged for them. But apparently the people bidding have WAY TOO MUCH disposable income on their hands - much to the delight of the seller, I'm sure! [lghy]
Title: Re: eBay sellers
Post by: Karen_#2 on July 05, 2002, 08:24:56 AM: Quote
A follow up to my previous post about the variables of supply and demand. Check out this auction ending this evening for a 1996 MPI Music Box that many fans passed on initally for the $40.00 price. ;D
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1546402153

Isn't that wild?

I recently (last December) purchased a 1996 MPI Josette's Music Box from a girl who's mom was "cleaning out her closet".
It was autographed by TLATKLS. Purchase price? $15. and I threw in an extra $5 for shipping. Yes, total = $20. And it is in excellent shape. :D

I was chatting with another collector when the DS Memoralbilia Auction was going on Saturday. One of these 1996 MPI music boxes went for around $335 (similar to the ebay auction Bob noted). This fellow next to me said that he had two 1996 MPI music boxes at home, never removed from the original box.

My comment to him?
"You'll never go hungry" ;D