Author Topic: Discuss - Ep #0748  (Read 1846 times)

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Discuss - Ep #0748
« on: April 01, 2009, 09:33:42 PM »

Offline Pansity

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0748
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2009, 02:37:56 AM »
Wonderful episode.  Great script and fantastic performances across the board.

The final scene shortened for the teaser, but much more of a closeup on poor Jenny.  Marie did a wonderful job, with no words.  It's not played with violence or rage, but hurt and betrayal, with tears in her eyes as she watches them kiss.   She starts forward with the knife raised, like a sleepwalker, until she is nearly on top of them.

Beth goes into helpless ingenue though, standing there screaming as he handles Jenny by himself.  Would it have made any difference in the long run?  Who knows, since we find out that it's BETH Jenny really wants to kill this time -- enough to leave a clear shot at Quentin to do it.  Never noticed this before (the advantage of watching it on a small portable right next to the laptop, I guess) but Beth's cheek has blood on it.  Hers -- or one of the others?

Now to the $64,000 dollar question.  Did he intend to kill her, or was it an accident?  I've watched this scene on slo mo and rewinding dozens of times to get my own answer for a reference in a particular piece of fanfiction I wrote. He gets her to drop the knife, but doesn't go to a less lethal grip on her.  He's like a sleepwalker. He doesn't even seem to hear Beth yelling to let her go.  He also doesn't seem to have kicked the knife away to where she can't grab for it if she gets loose, which may or may not mean anything.

Given that Jenny came for him with a knife before, probably under similar enough circumstances -- and Angelique magic or no, he refers to still having what sounds like a nasty scar.  This combination of factors makes me think that he had a flashback, and though she really couldn't have hurt him, his mind was probably telling him differently and he couldn't let go. When Beth finally gets him loose, he's breathing hard and looks horrified, then runs like hell, which also makes me think he didn't realize what he did till it was too late. (FYI Marie does dead with fixed eyes REAL well.)

Quentin in the drawing room staring at his hands like they belong to someone else.  Anyone else thinking "will all Neptune's oceans wash this blood clean from my hands?"

Is it just me, or does Edward treat this whole thing as something that transpired for the sole purpose of inconveniencing him?  He goes out of his way to be nasty.  Nice touch when TC takes the knife from him, her hand is trembling. And a lot of her reaction is probably guilt -- after all she said she wished somethign would happen to Jenny, and not minutes later Jenny is dead after tryint to attack her for saying that.

Quentin, being Quentin, is trying to run.  Interesting how Edward takes the bag from Quentin and he gives in to him like a little boy. As a matter of fact, both Q and B are behaving like naughty little children being taken to task by a schoolmaster.  LOVED the way LE played the reaction to Edward being told that Quentin had married a gypsy (which in those days was thought of like an interracial marriage in the South in the 50s).  LOVED Quentin's line about "This is NO time to be socially offended!"  And Edward, being Edward is convinced that because he wants it covered up, it's possible for it to be covered up.

And talk about timing, what a time for Sandor and Magda to show up.  Real sensitve way to tell Magda that her sister is dead -- way to go Edward.  And NOT a good coverup -- can't they even have laid her out like she was put on the bed normally, instead of leaving her where she died.  Not to mention missing the button in her hand, and the bruises on her neck.  Sloppy sloppy.

And at the end Quentin is all alone with the knowledge of Magda's threat, with not even Beth willing to stay with him.

Jeannie


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Offline Midnite

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0748
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2009, 07:39:18 PM »
Oh, the horror, the scandal, the Quentin Collins of it all!

Beth's cheek has blood on it.  Hers -- or one of the others?

Hers.  Her face got scratched during the scuffle.  (Terry Crawford sneakily applied it during the scene.)

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Now to the $64,000 dollar question.  Did he intend to kill her, or was it an accident?

He said he didn't mean to do it [spoiler]and will continue to insist that he didn't,[/spoiler] but since it looked like he killed her in the heat of passion, I wouldn't call it an accident either.  I believe he was provoked.  Blame it on his rage, fear, terror, desperation, or maybe all of the above.

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He gets her to drop the knife, but doesn't go to a less lethal grip on her.  He's like a sleepwalker. He doesn't even seem to hear Beth yelling to let her go.  He also doesn't seem to have kicked the knife away to where she can't grab for it if she gets loose, which may or may not mean anything.

It would for Hang 'em High McCoy (Law & Order fans, you know who you are), who would argue that Quentin used more force than was necessary to subdue her, and that no one was in imminent danger when he strangled her.  And he'd be all over Edward's coverup and inevitably would learn of the prior threats on her life.  Q would be LUCKY to come away with a manslaughter charge. [ghost_wink]  [ghost_rolleyes]

At least Marie got to play dead on a soft bed this time instead of [spoiler]a hard closet floor.[/spoiler]

And so much for Quentin's promise to get rid of that pesky conscience of Beth's.

I was actually surprised that Edward showed as much compassion as he did.  He grasped that Jenny became enraged by Beth's betrayal of her, and even referred to her as a poor woman.  And I thought he framed his words rather carefully when he told Magda that Jenny was killed, adding that he was very sorry.  Color *me* shocked.

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And Edward, being Edward is convinced that because he wants it covered up, it's possible for it to be covered up.

Didn't Beth just say recently that the Collinses believe they're above the law?  Unfortunately for Quentin, Edward has no clue that mere words CAN harm.

I liked the final shot of Q's face with the transposed image of Magda's "evil eye" gesture.  (I thought only Italians used it that way. [ghost_smiley])

Offline Pansity

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0748
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2009, 03:02:40 AM »
Oh, the horror, the scandal, the Quentin Collins of it all!

 [laughing_devil]

Did he intend to kill her, or was it an accident?
Quote from: Midnite
He said he didn't mean to do it [spoiler]and will continue to insist that he didn't,[/spoiler] but since it looked like he killed her in the heat of passion, I wouldn't call it an accident either.  I believe he was provoked.  Blame it on his rage, fear, terror, desperation, or maybe all of the above.

Rhetorical question of course.  It's fun to see different people's takes on the whys and wherefores of the scene, and what incidents formed their opinions.

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(Law & Order fans, you know who you are)
  Raises hand.

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And so much for Quentin's promise to get rid of that pesky conscience of Beth's.
  The real irony of that is that this is when HIS conscience starts becoming evident to the audience.  This and similar tragedies, along with exposure to that aforementioned conscience of hers, start to develop his conscience, empathy and sense of responsibility.

Jeannie


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Offline Midnite

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0748
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2009, 06:00:48 AM »
Did he intend to kill her, or was it an accident?
Rhetorical question of course.

Oops.  Totally missed that.  [embb]

Offline Taeylor Collins

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0748
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2009, 06:10:48 AM »
Voiceover: Grayson Hall

I just love this line…”Here in the past Collinwood harbors secrets that can affect the lives of the Collins family for many generations to come..”   Why am I so in love with David Selby/Quentin??  I think it's probably because he is a gorgeous southerner.  I was born and raised, and still live in Kentucky.  I grew up in Harlan County in a town called Benham which was only about 2 hours from where David got his start, The Barter Theater.  Imagine how delighted I was when I found out about that when I bought the Companion many years ago.   Sorry for getting off topic a bit, I thought that may interest y'all.  I went to a few plays and enjoyed every one.  Great theater!!

It looked as if Terry Crawford had something in her hand to put the blood on her face.   I hadn't noticed that on my first and second viewings of the series!!  I truly find something new each and every time I watch DS.  It's great.  It's the gift that keeps on giving!!

Marie didn't have to work too hard today.  Louis looks quite wonderfully regal and Victorian in his ensemble.  LOVE. THE. HAT!   I get quite a chuckle out of watching Louis perform and his head bobble, mainly because he is the one who called attention to it in either BIG LOU or an interview I read somewhere or perhaps on a special video/DVD from Mpi?  NOW, I seem to notice it more.  He was a funny man.  If you haven't read BIG LOU, you need too!  In contrast with 1795 (which I am watching) concurrently with this project, it really has shown me what an amazing actor LE was.  I think that Joshua and Edward have similarities of course, but they are TOTALLY different characters and Louis E is to be praised for that!  One line that runs through most of his characters his of course protecting the families good name!!    Love when Q puts his hand on his hip's sorry back on point. LE is working the black guyliner.  It gives him a totally different look from Joshua and Roger. 

I love the way Grayson saunters along as Magda, a completely different walk than Julia has.  LOL  I wonder if Sandor's wig may be the a recycle of one of Cassandra's?? 

Are most Romanian Gypsy's catholic/spiritualist?  It's an interesting combo.  Jenny apparently worked extremely hard to lose her accent?? 

Wow..David is so tall…in the accusation shot.  The music dept. seems to be hitting it's stride, switching from one composition to another to accentuate the mood.   Good Lord, the way Quentin/David flares his nose…LOL…so sexy! I have come to the conclusion that he could do nothing and still be sexy! WHEW! :)  Love the hex/voiceover ending.


Really nice to be back to the WP project with you guys.  I am caught up, I just need to post.  I will finish them tomorrow!
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Offline EmeraldRose

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0748
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2009, 10:29:21 AM »
This was the episode when Quentin accidentally killed Jenny. [milestone] Poor Jenny! Quentin's rage took over him, and he carried it too far. It was almost like he was in a trance when he was strangling her; Beth had a hard time getting him to stop. It was a shame that Beth had to pour her heart out, admitting how much she loved Quentin and lamenting about how she wished Jenny would disappear. All the while, Jenny was hiding, hearing it all, and watching them kiss passionately . Of course, if they knew Jenny was there, it would have been much different. It's understandable that Jenny would attack them, because they both betrayed her - but, of course, it was still wrong. The scenes leading up to Jenny's death were very exciting! The thrilling music enhanced my viewing experience. DS at its best. [clap2]

It was a powerful scene afterwards, when Quentin looked at his hands, appalled that he could kill with them. [ghost_shocked] I got a chuckle out of Edward telling Beth, "Get a hold of yourself, and tell me what happened!" She was already explaining it to him! [ghost_rolleyes]

(FYI Marie does dead with fixed eyes REAL well.)
Yes, indeed, Jeannie, she sure does! I didn't see her move at all!

It was comical to watch Edward trying to fabricate a story about Jenny's death. He did a horrible job! When Quentin and Beth were standing in the drawing room, not saying a word, I found that strangely funny, also. Edward was such a pompous ass! He was appalled to learn that Jenny was a gypsy, and wasn't very tactful when he told Magda and Sandor that Jenny was dead.  [ghost_tongue]

The last scene, when Quentin remembered Magda's curse gesture, he seemed to be hiding, like a scared little boy. [shiver] By the way, that hand gesture has a totally different meaning in the sign language world. When the hand is up, with the palm facing the recipient of the message, it means "I love you." My mother and I used that sign all the time. [luv] What a coincidence, huh?

This was a fantastic episode, one of the best! Kudos to all for their great acting! [cheer] This episode marked a turning point in the 1897 storyline. Things are about to get a lot more exciting!

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Offline Lydia

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0748
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2009, 02:32:03 PM »
Pansity, thanks for your ideas about Quentin killing Jenny, which I read months ago in another topic.  Today, for the first time, I noticed how zombie-like Quentin looked as he was strangling Jenny.

(FYI Marie does dead with fixed eyes REAL well.)
Yes, indeed, Jeannie, she sure does! I didn't see her move at all!
I'm sure I saw her tongue move when Jenny was first dead.

Into the on-going controversy of how Edward behaved to Sandor and Magda (Midnite for, Pansity and EmeraldRose against), I'm throwing my reaction: bothered by Edward's hypocrisy.  Just a few minutes before, he had been expressing shock that Quentin had married a gypsy.  And now he's saying saying something like, "I understand you were related.  I'm sorry for your loss."  Compare that to Judith's blunt "If Jenny's a gypsy, it's no wonder she went mad."  (Please pardon the flagrantly inexact quotation.)  I'm all for polite social lies greasing the wheels of civilization - but Edward still bothered me.  And I think that Magda is the sort of person who would prefer the truth.

Another thing that was bothering me about Edward today was his mustache.  I thought for the longest time that Louis Edmonds had it on crooked, until I realized that the left side (as you're looking at him) was much fairer than the right side.  It was a fascinating episode, and here I was worrying about a mustache.  There's something wrong with me.

Bravo to Thayer David, who had Sandor crossing himself when Magda crossed herself, even though all you could see of it was the hand moving upwards and out of view because Sandor was mostly off-camera.

Offline Midnite

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0748
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2009, 09:34:27 PM »
I'm throwing my reaction: bothered by Edward's hypocrisy.  Just a few minutes before, he had been expressing shock that Quentin had married a gypsy.  And now he's saying saying something like, "I understand you were related.  I'm sorry for your loss."  Compare that to Judith's blunt "If Jenny's a gypsy, it's no wonder she went mad."  (Please pardon the flagrantly inexact quotation.)  I'm all for polite social lies greasing the wheels of civilization - but Edward still bothered me.  And I think that Magda is the sort of person who would prefer the truth.

It was totally hypocritical, though Edward would probably believe that both reactions were logical.  On the one hand, we have Edward accepting that a gypsy would be pained by losing a family member.  But seeing them as equals in terms of their capacity to experience emotional pain is not the same as seeing them as equals, period.  He tolerated the gypsies only so long as they stayed in their place, and an interracial marriage within the family was therefore unacceptable.  As for Magda, she lets us know that she's no stranger to racist attitudes.

Offline EmeraldRose

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0748
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 11:02:13 AM »
I'm sure I saw her tongue move when Jenny was first dead.
Thanks for pointing that out, Lydia. [thumb] I noticed Jenny's tongue move, too. [ghost_wink] Sorry, I forgot about that when I wrote my post. [signerror] In my comment, I was actually referring to Jenny not moving after the tongue debacle. [ghost_rolleyes]

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Offline Pansity

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0748
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2009, 02:41:39 AM »
Pansity, thanks for your ideas about Quentin killing Jenny, which I read months ago in another topic.  Today, for the first time, I noticed how zombie-like Quentin looked as he was strangling Jenny.

Thanks, Lydia. Considering the depth of ideas I keep seeing in your posts, I'm very flattered that you took note of my speculation. That was one of a number of scenes I watched multiple times for a particular fanfiction I wrote.  Needed to work out where the characters were in the scene, and that zombie like appearance is one of the things that struck me.  Of course, one of the beauties of DS is that things are left so that they can have multiple explanations or interpretations, many of which can be equally valid.

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Bravo to Thayer David, who had Sandor crossing himself when Magda crossed herself, even though all you could see of it was the hand moving upwards and out of view because Sandor was mostly off-camera.

Another of the things which makes DS, when operating at its best, such a joy to watch.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who misses  TV and movies using properly trained stage actors, who know enough and are talented enough to think to DO business like that. I think it was Spencer Tracy spoke of acting vs reacting (as well as the famous line about learning your lines and not bumping into the furniture).

Jeannie


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