angelique and victoria

[michael c]

the withcraft topic got me thinking...why didn't angelique ever really use her powers on vicki?
she set her up as a witch during 1795 but it was generally vicki's own naivity that did her in and not something angelique did to her.

and in 1968 as cassandra ang put everyone possible under her spell to get what she wanted but not vicki.even though vicki knew who she really was and who's constant suspicion threatend her plans why didn't she just do something to get her out of the way?

vicki even tells cass off on a few occasions...why did she stand for that?

[Gerard]

Well, I guess the closest Victoria came to being under one of Cassangelique's spells was having to experience the dream curse like most everyone else.  But as to why Cassangelique didn't pull any further Endoras on Vicki is that she probably figured that with Vicky's constant inability to understand anything, she was just too dipsy to worry about.

Gerard

[Mysterious Benefactor]

she probably figured that with Vicky's constant inability to understand anything, she was just too dipsy to worry about.

Ain't that the truth! 

[Countess]

Interesting point - why didn't Cassandra empower Vicki?  From a philosophical viewpoint, perhaps Vicki was intended to represent the television viewer - innocent and mind unclouded by witchcraft.  But there was always one thing that puzzled me about Angelique going all the way back to her life in Martinique.  She had this tremendous power...but she remained a servant?  Angelique had a track record of not being able to reverse curses, she could have used her power to attain wealth but instead chose to chase Barnabas, marry Roger, Skye and even try to force Quentin to marry her.  As far as witches go, I must agree with Nicholas Blair that she just wasn't that skilled in her use of power nor was she terribly smart by failing to use it to better her station in life.  Now, remember, this was the sixties and the writers, except for Violet Welles, were all men.  What was their subtle message?  They created a powerful being, only to have her squander her full potential as a witch.  Maybe they were threatened by strong women so they had Angelique continually screw up and chase men.  Clearly threatened by the surge of feminism that swept the country during that era.  IMHO, of course.  I watched the original run of DS and saw that last run on SciFi with different eyes and a fresh mindset.  It was like watching two completely different soaps.  Any other "oldsters" have a similar experience?

[Sandor]

A quote from Lara Parker (Angelique), commenting on the role of Victoria (as played by Alexandra Moltke), from "America On The Rerun":
"Alexandra had this distance, this cool, and was just ravishing. She was a very real actress but she didn't bring a lot of energy to it, but again it worked for her character, because Victoria Winters was supposed to be reactive--she was the protagonist--she was the one that it was happening to.
She was the audience's eyes. We saw it all through her eyes. She didn't have to be strong--she just had to be the bridge that carried us into the show. And her lack of energy--which drove the directors mad--didn't really do any harm because she seemed so real. The rest of us seemed larger than life, but she seemed very placid [and] natural."

That said, perhaps if Vicki had been continuously bewitched, we the audience would have lost our bridge.  I love how after Dr. Hoffman slapped Cassandralique, Vicki icily commented to the witch, "You deserve a lot more than just a slap in the face!"  Vicki could be a tough cookie when confronted by the adversity brought on by Angelique, and perhaps that gave us hope for normality being triumphant over voodoo.  

[Nelson Collins]

I kind of favor the "no honor among theives" approach.  Recall that Ang first met Victoria in 1795 and did work to divert suspicion from herself to Victoria.  Ang, no stranger herself to lies and deception (pretending to be a simple servant girl) perhaps could not be 100% certain that Victoria wasn't doing exactly the same thing!   Then, lo and behold, Victoria is right there in 1968 when Ang shows up as Cassandra!  Now I agree that it is far more likely that Ang thought that Vicki was not worth bothering about, but just maybe she decided that if Vicki could survive a death sentance in 1796, she might just be someone you don't want to mess with too much.

[Luciaphile]

I think most of you know that I'm not the biggest Angelique fan out there.

However. The first substantial scene between Vicki and Angelique that I can recall begins with Vicki literally wandering into Angelique's room. Uninvited. Angelique isn't there. Supposedly Vicki's looking for Sarah. And well, instead of popping her head in, seeing that the room is empty, and moving on, Vicki starts poking in around, doing everything but lifting up the mattress idly to see if there's some spare cash or whatever.

Not Vicki's most stellar moment.

Not saying Angeiique's targeting of Vicki was laudable, but ya know, I can kind of understand her initial dislike.

[DSFan008]

I always had two thoughts on this:

1) as others mentioned, Vicki is the "eyes" of the viewers, making her Angelique's magical plaything would have distanced the character from what she was suppose to be, us-the viewer.

2) the other though is that if she constantly was bewitched, then she would become even more usless than she did, because she couldn't help Barnabas and Julia fight Ang, they'd be spending too much time saving her, not that they didn't do that already. Also it would make vicki a more expendable character than she was suppose to be.

[michael c]

A quote from Lara Parker (Angelique), commenting on the role of Victoria (as played by Alexandra Moltke), from "America On The Rerun":
"Alexandra had this distance, this cool, and was just ravishing. She was a very real actress but she didn't bring a lot of energy to it, but again it worked for her character, because Victoria Winters was supposed to be reactive--she was the protagonist--she was the one that it was happening to.
She was the audience's eyes. We saw it all through her eyes. She didn't have to be strong--she just had to be the bridge that carried us into the show. And her lack of energy--which drove the directors mad--didn't really do any harm because she seemed so real. The rest of us seemed larger than life, but she seemed very placid [and] natural."

That said, perhaps if Vicki had been continuously bewitched, we the audience would have lost our bridge.  I love how after Dr. Hoffman slapped Cassandralique, Vicki icily commented to the witch, "You deserve a lot more than just a slap in the face!"  Vicki could be a tough cookie when confronted by the adversity brought on by Angelique, and perhaps that gave us hope for normality being triumphant over voodoo.   

i haven't read "america on the rerun" but that's an excellent commentary on the character of vicki."we" saw what "she" saw.i'm tempted to get into a larger subject about the power of good vs. evil but perhaps it was just a more practical matter on the part of the show's writers to keep "us" and vicki on the same wavelength.despite her supposed "dipsiness" she was usually right about people.she was on to cassandra from the start and while the "suave" nicholas blair had everyone in town snowed she saw through him too.her only major lack of clarity of character of course was barnabas.she only saw good in him which actually made for a more compelling story in the end than if she had been "on" to him.

and her icy comment to a freshly slapped cassandra was the best !

[stefan]

The first substantial scene between Vicki and Angelique that I can recall begins with Vicki literally wandering into Angelique's room. Uninvited. Angelique isn't there. Supposedly Vicki's looking for Sarah. And well, instead of popping her head in, seeing that the room is empty, and moving on, Vicki starts poking in around, doing everything but lifting up the mattress idly to see if there's some spare cash or whatever

That WAS odd! I couldn't make up my mind if that scene was sloppy and wierd writing or deliberate in some way. Just why WOULD Vickie do this? She didn't seem suspicious of Angelique and basically the items she found (personal items that belonged to Barnabas) didn't make much of an impression on her, even after all the witchcraft mess. She never did put two-and-two together.

[stefan]

Alexandra had this distance, this cool, and was just ravishing. She was a very real actress but she didn't bring a lot of energy to it, but again it worked for her character, because Victoria Winters was supposed to be reactive--she was the protagonist--she was the one that it was happening to.

Very interesting. I wonder if A. Molte did this deliberately or was just her interpretation of Vikie Winters (whom I understand she didn't much care for). And, I agree it did work for the show. Just one of the many highly unique features of DS. Also interesting that the writing and directing team were displeased with Ms. Molte's acting decision here....sometimes I wonder if the brilliance of some (not all) of DS was simply a combination of luck, chemistry, ignorance and trial and error.

[Miss_Winthrop]

I think most of you know that I'm not the biggest Angelique fan out there.

However. The first substantial scene between Vicki and Angelique that I can recall begins with Vicki literally wandering into Angelique's room. Uninvited. Angelique isn't there. Supposedly Vicki's looking for Sarah. And well, instead of popping her head in, seeing that the room is empty, and moving on, Vicki starts poking in around, doing everything but lifting up the mattress idly to see if there's some spare cash or whatever.

I believe that back in that era a governess had more stature in a household than a servant. Vicki probably could have requested that Angelique bring her tea if she had wanted. She probably would have even been included in family outings and may have taken dinner on occasion with them. I don't see that being extended to a servant like Angelique.  As close as Josette thought that she and Angelique were, there would have been lines drawn and limits to her interaction with the family that wouldn't have been so strictly enforced with a governess.

[Luciaphile]

I believe that back in that era a governess had more stature in a household than a servant. Vicki probably could have requested that Angelique bring her tea if she had wanted. She probably would have even been included in family outings and may have taken dinner on occasion with them. I don't see that being extended to a servant like Angelique.  As close as Josette thought that she and Angelique were, there would have been lines drawn and limits to her interaction with the family that wouldn't have been so strictly enforced with a governess.

You're totally right. I actually wrote a fanfic eons ago where I had a character explain that to Vicki. But I don't think Vicki would have understood that. And even if she did? I mean, she's a 20th century woman and even what some might call our standardless society, it's still not Kosher to go into someone's private space and pull open the dresser drawers. It might be done, but it's not done, if you know what I mean.