Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 2

[Gerard]

Maybe they just hired Merry Maids to come in once a week and tidy things up.

Gerard

[Taeylor Collins]

Victoria:  We are treated to an intriguing voiceover from Victoria Winters telling us she “hopes to unlock the secrets of her past.”  Unfortunately, that tantalizing comment is never built upon.  There is a throwaway line from Roger about why a 25yo girl from New York would want to come to Collinsport, but otherwise it’s totally ignored.  I have no problem at all with Carolyn being attracted to Vicki, but I think those scenes would have been put to much better use learning more of Vicki’s story.  Why IS she there?  Where is her family?  Was she raised in an orphanage?  Did she leave friends or a boyfriend in New York?  Sadly, she is there simply because the script says she must be there.  A wasted opportunity.

First off! I hope you had a great time with your man.  It is a great for anyone to find love in this world.  And it is also AMAZING to have so much FAMILY on the boards.   I don't want to exclude anyone because feel like all of you all are my family.  I am just glad this board is gay friendly. 

Now onto your post.  I think a lot of character development got lost in the fact that Dan Curtis probably most likely believed DS would get a 22 episode run instead of just the 12 episodes!    I imagine it was crazy trying to figure what to leave in and what to try and bring to the screen.  They really had to get the story going to get to where we are headed.    I know that doesn't make it any less frustrating.  There were a lot of hints dropped though and it I can only imagine  how wonderful a 22 episode Season Two of Dark Shadows could have been!  I think it would have delved [spoiler]deeper into Victoria's past and the ensemble cast![/spoiler]

Onto some pictures.  Can I just say I want Julia's bag! LOL  I would love to have it setting as a piece around my electicly decorated apt!  I love the chain strap!

[Philippe Cordier]

Good points by everyone ... an especially good one is Nelson Collins' about how there is no development of any mystery about Victoria Winters' background, no explanation about where she's from or why she came to Collinwood.  And your comments about Jean Simmons are honestly painful and ones I haven't seen voiced before, but they were my impressions, too, as I recalled from my original viewing.  Ms. Simmons needed more to work with; at least so far, her character is just bland and there's not much there there.

I have a hard time building any empathy with David.

Although I haven't gotten to the part with Sarah's ghost yet, I remember from my previous viewing that she looked authentically 18th century with her bonnet and dress.

[Taeylor Collins]

Sarah was dressed very authentic.  I personally[spoiler] believe that the wardrobe department did an amazing job during the 1790 flashback.[/spoiler]  According to the 1991 Dark Shadows Concordance they really did their home work!! 

[Mysterious Benefactor]

It's fascinating to read about the behind the scenes "battles" (for want of a better word) that the writers went through, not only because of the things DC wanted to do, but because of the way NBC wanted things done. DC had wanted 20-24 hours, but NBC would only commit to 13. Some of the writers had believed they shouldn't have done the 1790 flashback with only those 13 hours to tell the initial story, but DC insisted on the flashback. However, DC had originally wanted 10 to 14 hours for 1790, whereas the network had only wanted 4(!), so 6 hours became the compromise. Matt Hall lamented that there were many long writing sessions simply devoted to what was going to be discarded. and I believe his words were they "cut and cut and cut again." Delving deeper into many of the characters' backgrounds was put off until season two. And for what it's worth, the '91 series planned to eventually reveal that Vicki was Elizabeth's daughter (that revelation is indeed made in the DCP sanctioned '91 series comics, which flirted with a few of the actual plans that the writers had put on hold for season two). But alas, the series ended before that could happen...

[Taeylor Collins]

Yeah and then those comics got cancelled on a cliffhanger!  GRRR....or more to the point Innovation went out of business!  The comics were really good though and I enjoyed getting to delve deeper into the '91 DS!!

[Cassandra Blair]

That's really fascinating, MB! There really doesn't seem to be any hint that Victoria might be a Collins, at least thus far in the series. It might be fun to take a look at those comics, if they're still available anywhere.

I too really wish there was more character development. But I don't have a real problem with them not explaining why the Collins family is rich - since we know they've had money for years, I'm not sure it would come up naturally so early in the series. Maybe it's just my imagination, but didn't Carolyn mention to Vicki (maybe in the first episode) that nobody knows how many rooms Collinwood has, and most of them are shut up anyway? While I think it's a bit weird for the family to be so incurious about how many rooms their own ancestral home has, most of them being closed up might explain why there aren't many servants.

Agreed with all, Carolyn is weird, and her teeth-sucking, hip-swinging performance certainly does send mixed signals about what the actress is trying to portray. Elizabeth isn't given enough to do, and we really don't know why Victoria Winters is there, what's up with Roger or why David is so hostile. It's all a bit frustrating, but I find it also makes me curious as to what might be revealed.

Barnabas (or maybe a Barnabas/Victoria relationship) is clearly meant to be at the center of the series, and I have to think that if they'd continued, the writers (particularly if they'd had DC breathing down their necks) would have found a way to keep Barnabas (or the B/V 'ship) as the focus of the show. They do seem to have chemistry, and the portrait of Josette looking like Victoria raises lots of questions that they could've taken a long time to answer. Maybe Victoria was drawn to Collinwood because it's where she lived her past life; maybe she could sense that her lover from the 18th century was returning home. That's what I tend to read into it.

Does anyone else think it's strange that the Old House is just sitting there on the property, mouldering? Or that David would be allowed to play in an old wreck like that? And whoever mentioned that it's hard to tell the Old House from Collinwood? I get them confused too - they look like the same place.

[michael c]

high-waist,wide-pleat trousers oh how i loath thee!i had tried to wipe these from my sartorial memory bank but this series is resplendent with them.

mysterious' highly detailed wardrobe description reveals that the clothing being worn was purchased at high toned establishments like the lamented 'i.magnin' and i presume were supposed to look "rich" but they don't look expensive to me.

vicki is attired strangely.she gets these very "romantic" looking getups like-lace collared blouses,cameos and flowing floral print skirts but they're topped by puffy,incongruously sporty looking jackets.weird.liz gets one of these too at the hospital and it doesn't suit her.she doesn't look "regal" enough.

i'm trying to figure out what kind of heroine victoria winters is.she's pretty.she's nice.she sticks up for underdogs like willie and blandly tolerates david's antics.this is meant to convey that she's "kind" and "virtuous" and of course worthy of an undead suitor's ardor.like most heroines her supporting cast gets to be more "colorful" and "eccentric' than she is.still she's not quite as "ingenueish" as some heroines one sees(wink).

but of course like all good heroines she sits before an elaborate vanity,in diaphanous chiffon sleepwear,and dreamily brushes her hair before going to bed.does anyone really do this?

here we learn that david has friend named "sarah" whom of course everyone will assume at first is a figment of his imagination.when pressed vicki gives that classically patronizing "i believe she's real...to you" line that would infuriate any savvy kid.
david nearly stumbles across barnabas' coffin at the old house.did i miss something?i thought the coffin was in a mausoleum or at the very least a secret chamber.how did it end up on a platform at the bottom of the stairs in a house teaming with workmen?

carolyn gyrating at the blue whale.something about this seems familiar(wink).turns out this is a clumsy setup for some carnage.carolyn gets hit on by some drunken townie riffraff.his equally drunk floozy girlfriend "gloria" stomps out in a jealous huff.two instantly introduced,easily disposable characters.i see where this is going.of course they end up toast but in a crowded bar parking lot?barnabas is attracting too much unwanted attention.he needs to be more cautious.more discreet.

we see later how discreet he can be when he tosses his next victim off widows hill.some sloppy work on the part of the makeup department that this victim has bloody wounds on her neck after being immersed in salt water.wouldn't that wash the blood away?whatev.

was maggie evans even in this episode?i kind of like her.

we end with julia hoffan's introduction and boy is she on to barnabas like frosting on a cupcake.we see where this plot development is going.

fun episode.

[Taeylor Collins]

I recommend getting a hold of Kathleen Resch's SHADOWS IN THE 90's! It has some great stuff in it!  I also recommend you get Dark Shadows Ressurected if you don't already have them!  They have a wealth of information.  The Pom Press stuff isn't always the gospel though!!

[Taeylor Collins]

I think Julia's introduction is the best on the series.  Like Midnite said "A Goddess in Black!"

[Cassandra Blair]

Dr. Julia Hoffman certainly is introduced as a character of importance - it's almost like they want you to believe she's going to be the Van Helsing of the piece. The way they slowly pan up from her boots, showing her turn around dramatically on the platform holding that umbrella in the rain, looking fabulous (despite the braid, which to me gives her a vaguely dominatrix look). You think: here is a character that is going to be in charge, and will likely be a match for the vampire. I too love Barbara Steele. I'm pretty sure she's my favorite actor on the show.

[KMR]

And whoever mentioned that it's hard to tell the Old House from Collinwood? I get them confused too - they look like the same place.

While I totally understand that they used one location for budgetary reasons, they should have tried to go to greater lengths to distinguish the Old House from Collinwood.  Even the miniature was just a single structure, filmed from different angles to suggest one house or the other.  Maybe if they had built and used more soundstage sets, instead of using Greystone for *everything* except the Great Hall.

[Midnite]

Speaking of character development, with this dialogue missing from the DVD of the pilot...

(from Re: Discuss: '91 Series - Pilot - Part 1)

Elizabeth assures him that in time they'll get to know each other, but Roger says, "I'm not so sure, dear sister."

... I can't think of any other references in the DVD of Part 1 or 2 to their being brother and sister.  Elizabeth doesn't call David her nephew, Carolyn doesn't call Roger her uncle, etc.  When Elizabeth tells Vicki that "Mr. Collins" will be down soon, it could mean that they're married.  And IINM, doesn't Barnabas come calling for Mrs. Collins?  So, besides the age difference between the 2 actors, with the above scene cut, how are viewers supposed to figure out their relationship?

but of course like all good heroines she sits before an elaborate vanity,in diaphanous chiffon sleepwear,and dreamily brushes her hair before going to bed.does anyone really do this?

LOL!  I thought the chiffon was a bit much, but dreamily brushing her hair in a beautiful room after a steamy date with a hot and attentive man who put thoughts in her head that the two of them are reincarnated lovers... Um, what was the question again??! 

Maybe by the time she checked on David, changed out of her dress, brushed her teeth and stared into the mirror for a while, enough time had passed for Barnabas to return to the Old House before strolling back to do his growly thing, which might explain why he's no longer holding the cane in those final scenes.

[Taeylor Collins]

...but of course like all good heroines she sits before an elaborate vanity,in diaphanous chiffon sleepwear,and dreamily brushes her hair before going to bed.does anyone really do this?

I doubt it Msbryk!!! It's great for gothic romance though in my opinion!

LOL!  I thought the chiffon was a bit much, but dreamily brushing her hair in a beautiful room after a steamy date with a hot and attentive man who put thoughts in her head that the two of them are reincarnated lovers... Um, what was the question again??! 

EXACTLY!!!

[Mysterious Benefactor]

the clothing being worn was purchased at high toned establishments like the lamented 'i.magnin' and i presume were supposed to look "rich" but they don't look expensive to me.

Though at least, unlike many other shows, the '91 series purchased actual name brand clothes at high end stores rather than rely on knockoffs from a certain store whose slogan was "high fashion at low prices."