DS Redux: Your Vision?

[MagnusTrask]

We know vampirism isn't literally sexual, it's about blood.   One can look for disguised sexual implications, of course.  I'll concede that it overlaps with the sexual in that there's this connection between personalities and a dominant/submissive thing.   The relationships and feelings must overlap with the sexual in interesting ways.   I think, though, that it's far more interesting to think of the relationship as something very strange and different and difficult to to understand, its own phenomenon, than as just a sexual act.   That limits it and limits discussion about it I think.

Sorry, I'm just not getting into the spirit of the discussion, am I?

Why is it seen as less sexual when the bite's on the wrist?   Because a bite on the neck looks a bit more like a kiss.   Same result though wherever the bite is, same feelings, same dependence, same everything, whether it's on the wrist or neck or heel or shin or butt.   It's sort of an optical illusion, the neck bite.   

Now forget everything I said because I don't want to spoil everyone's fun.   Pick up where you all left off before you were so rudely interrupted by the big killjoy...

[ProfStokes]

Same result though wherever the bite is, same feelings, same dependence, same everything, whether it's on the wrist or neck or heel or shin or butt. 

Thanks, Magnus!  Now I'm picturing Barnabas sinking his fangs into his victim's fanny. 

That would be a neat twist for a modern-day adaptation of the show: instead of looking for scarves, everybody can identify the vampire victims when they start wearing their normally saggy, baggy bottoms around their waists instead of six inches below their boxers. 

ProfStokes

[Taeylor Collins]

ROFLMAO Prof Stokes.  No harm intended Magnus.  I simply thought it would be cool to see a sexy male on male bite.  It would be a great nod to the HUGE Gay male fanbase that DS has.  Moving along.....

[Zahir]

Some people just don't "get" the sexuality of a vampire bite.  To be sure, not all such are particularly sexy.  Look at the feedings in 30 Days of Night for instance.  On the other hand, check out how vampires bite each other on Forever Knight as well as Angel!

That was something never quite explored on DS, although one wonders about Josette and Barnabas (or Angelique and Barnabas) spending their eternal nights together...hmmmm...

But it seems to me, a new DS series automatically faces a few hurdles--hardly insurmountable ones, but still.  If you do a remake, then some people complain about recasting the parts and/or variations from the original--although frankly I think the variations are what makes things most interesting IMHO.  Who wants Smallville to be just like Lois and Clarke?  But a "next generation" type series is stepping into relatively unknown territory, certainly lacking the very characters that gave the show its original success.  Again, not unsurmountable.

Myself, I think the most difficult part to re-cast is Dr. Julia Hoffman.  The only actress who comes immediately to mind is Lisa Edelstein, who plays Dr. Cutty on House (but of course, other than being a single female doctor the two characters have very little in common).l  She was also Sam's friend who was also a call girl on West Wing and had a hilarious turn as this totally bizarre girl Frasier got involved with for a short time on Frasier (she liked to howl at the moon--literally).

Of course, that is more-or-less using the original "take" on the character.  One can see other directions as well.  In my initial proposal on this thread I suggested Julia as Roger's lover, and partner in fraud/treasure hunting.  I never cast that part in my mind, largely because I could never quite settle on the direction that would work best.  Was she an older, accomplished woman feeling frustrated with life?  Or a beautiful lady using her looks to her best advantage?  Or maybe a younger woman, a bit insecure, even nerdy, swept away by the glamor of this sophisticated older man?  Or something else?

But if there were to be a new DS, one thing I am sure of...

At least one vampire, the sexier the better.   

[Taeylor Collins]

Yes we need at least one vampire this much I am certain of. !

[markyboo]

Hey, if we ever get this revamped version of DS on the air there is one thing I want to see: when Vicki arrives in Collinsport, I want Carolyn to greet her and say at her snottiest best, "Welcome to the C.M. , bitch!"

[Nelson Collins]

[beavis] heheheh you said "revamped" heh heheh heheh [/beavis]

[MagnusTrask]

Some people just don't "get" the sexuality of a vampire bite.  To be sure, not all such are particularly sexy.  Look at the feedings in 30 Days of Night for instance.  On the other hand, check out how vampires bite each other on Forever Knight as well as Angel!

Oh, I get that it's made sexual in a lot of vampire films and stories, and that bothers me, but that's just my reaction and opinion.   It's pretty hard to miss.   I just think it's more interesting to explore the relationship as something that has a lot in common with sexuality, but is its own thing.

[GooberCollins]

Vampire biting is frequently used as a sexual metaphor, but I agree with Magnus that it's not literally sexual. It can be portrayed as anything from a heavily erotic experience to simply being downright brutal violence. Of course, the parallels between biting and sexual intercourse are there, and pretty readily apparent. That, combined with the fact that vampires are often portrayed as darkly romantic, is why you see the "biting = sex" themes in many vampire stories.

[MagnusTrask]

Well said.  I can get behind that.

[borgosi]

I agree that the bite of a vampire doesn't HAVE to be sexual.

Now that that's out of the way, let me say that a sexual vampire is nothing new. What most think of as the first vampire story is The Vampyre by John William Polidori. It was 1/3 of the result of a group friends taking a challange to write a scary story. They would all write a scary story and then see who's was the best. The three were Lord Byron, Percy Shelley, and Mary Wollstonecraft. One legend says that Lord Byron wrote the beginning of a story that Polidori late finished. Others say that Polidori's story was a completely different story. Mary who later married Percy wrote the most famous story of the group.

Anyway after The Vampyre there was;
"Lord Ruthwen ou Les Vampires" by Cyprien in 1820
the play "Le Vampire" by Charles Nodier
1841 saw Alexey Tolstory published "Upyr" the first Russian vampire story
In 1847 the serial "Varney, The Vampire" began. The only thing I know about is that it's very long.
1851 Alexandre Dumas' "Le Vampire" opened in Paris
1872 saw Sheridan Le Fanu  write "Carmilla"... "Carmilla" was the one of the first ten published vampired "stories". Before it there were legends, reports, but of what we would call "stories" today there were less than ten when "Carmilla" was published.

Why would I go to the trouble to point that out?

"Carmilla" is an extremely sexual story and it's girl on girl. Sexual even homosexual vampire stories began just 53 years after the first published vampire, maybe sooner. It just took alot longer for movies to catch up. Bram Stoker's "Dracula" was published until 1897, a full 25 years after "Carmilla".

So, while a vampire's attack doesn't have to be sexual, it is a long standing tradition.

[MagnusTrask]

Hmmm... I'd have to hear the stories.

What year was that first vampire story?

Thanks for all that.  I noticed the name "Polidori".  I don't know the book Frankenstein, but my favorite film of it, the 1973 TV mini-series "Frankenstein: The True Story", had James Mason as a competing monster-builder named Polidori.  That name always jumped out at me, and I never knew why.

[borgosi]

If all you know about Frankenstein is what you know from movies you should read the book sometime. None of the movies come close to telling the story, and I have many of the movies including "Frankenstein; The True Story".

Now, back on topic.

[borgosi]

For your information.

There are three Hammer Films based on the Carmilla story. They are "The Vampire Lovers", "Lust For A Vampire" and "Twins Of Evil", the first two are on DVD.

[Zahir]

To me, the most erotic vampire movies--in terms of the actual vampirism--were Interview with the Vampire (even at his cruelest, Lestat was seductive to the max), BBC's 1977 Count Dracula (the biting being little less than intercourse in some ways), Jean Rollin's Vampire Orphan Twins with its eerie sensuality, Bram Stoker's Dracula (especially when the Brides "rape" Harker), and a wonderfully atmospheric (and over the top) Italian flick called Slaughter of the Vampires, in black and white.

Together these had the elements I love most in depictions of vampires, and frankly what I hope to see in any new version of DS:

1.  Strange beauty.  I like my vampires to be fallen angels, not bestial monsters like Nosferatu or 30 Days of Night.  Those were fun movies, to be sure, but the idea of ravenous creatures that just want to eat you feels "Zombie" to me, not vampire.  Just a personal preference.  Thus I'd want Barnabas or Angelique or whoever to be exotic and lovely to behold, even (especially) when baring their fangs.  I don't even mind if they have a "vamp face" a la Buffy, but why not a beautiful one?

2.  Addiction  The vampire is addicted to blood, must have it like a crackhead needs cocaine.  But no less the victim, once bitten, should crave more.  I was startled as a mere lad at the seductiveness on DS of some victims yearning to have their master bite them again.  Seemed like an excellent metaphor for all those weird drives and dreams of which the vampire partakes so readily.   Besides, addiction is a complex state and portrayed accurately is a source of much drama.  But part of that dynamic also is that the vampire must not kill with one bite, nor must one bite create a vampire.  That robs us of the relationship between predator and prey, of seducer and seducee (and btw, are we always sure which is which?)

3.  Guilt  Methinks we all recognize that a vampire who revels in his/her condition can be loads of fun.  But the one who feels guilt for what happens to them, who still feels a connection to the humanity of his/her victims, that is much more compelling.  Barnabas Collins, Nicholas Knight, Angel--all these grabbed our imagination and rightfully so.  With this comes another point, namely that the vampire needs something to feel guilty about.  He or she needs to have been a genuine force of destruction.   Nick Knight and Angel also explored the idea of a "parent" vampire urging our hero to give to his desires, to let the beast go.

4..Atmosphere  Dammit, I want a DS that is genuinely gothic!  I want candles and coffins, flowing nightgowns and moonlit nights.  Not that I want to ignore the modern world, far from it, but there should be room for all the lovely gothic stuff too.  In flashbacks at least!

5. Nature  Okay this one is technical.  I want consistent rules, thank you very much, and the more they make some kind of internal sense the better.  Is it the symbol of the cross that repels, or the faith of the wielder?  Do vampires sleep during the day, or are they dead?  Can vampires eat food or not?  Is a vampire a specialized kind of demonic possession, the equivalent of a supernatural disease, or what?  And what are a vampire's powers?

That is what I want to see in the vampires of a new DS.

Next...what I want to see in the werewolves!