Where was the Secret in 1840?

[PennyDreadful]

 I really enjoyed the 1840 storyline, but the continuity errors in this sequence bug me sometimes.  One of these oversights is the fact that Daniel Collins seemingly has no knowledge of the family secret (i.e. Barnabas) in 1840.  Daniel must have known though, since it was he who passed this knowledge down to Gabriel, who then passed it on to Edith.  Clearly Daniel was senile in 1840 (likely a victim of early onset Alzheimer's).  Perhaps his mind was so clouded that he didn't realize Barnabas was "the secret" when he saw him again.  Perhaps, in the original run of events (pre-Barnabas & Julia time travel), he would have finally remembered the secret on his deathbed.  Another explanation could involve some sort of supernatural manipulation of his memory.  He really seemed to have no clue when he saw Barnabas.  Obviously, either the writers forgot about "the secret" or didn't want to deal with this plot point.  But, story-wise, does anyone have a theory on Daniel's memory lapse?  I suppose the senility might be as good a reason as any, although I'm curious to hear other theories DS fans may have. 

 ~Penny Dreadful~

[Gerard]

Of course, when Julia and Barnabas (and later Eliot) went back to 1840, they once again threw the whole time sequence out of whack.  Edith didn't even survive to make it to 1897 where she became Grandmamamamama.  But let's say the time-line followed as it was suppose to, sans Julia, Barnabas and Eliiot.  I could then see Daniel passing the secret onto his daughter-in-law, Edith, rather than his son, knowing what a flakey-flight he was.  That, of course, doesn't resolve the situation that Edith wouldn't be around in 1897 when Julia, Barnabas and Eliot travelled......oh, you know what I mean.

Gerard

[Josette]

The thing is, when he saw Barnabas, at that point he seemed particularly lucid.  One wasn't sure how he would react, but at that point he seemed to really be aware of things.

[Ian]

You know, this was one part of the storyline I never saw, but the main inconsistency I saw was that Edith was killed in the 1840 storyline. So then....how did characters like Judith, Edward, Quentin (the second one, of course), and Carl come into the picture? If they weren't around, wouldn't the entire main timeline disappear (or be somehow changed forever)? I mean, it may not have changed completely if Geoffrey was already born...could someone clear that little bit up for me?

[ProfStokes]

I mean, it may not have changed completely if Geoffrey was already born...could someone clear that little bit up for me?

Yes, Edith and Gabriel already had children by 1840 but they were away at boarding school during this storyline (a fact that appalled Aunt Samantha).

ProfStokes

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Actually, when Daniel meets Barnabas, he's pretty much out of it and lost in the past, [spoiler]saying something like, "You had us quite worried for a while, running off to England like that, and then we never heard from you." But Barnabas explains that Daniel has Barnabas "confused" with his father, which confuses Daniel all the more until Ben has to remind him that the year is now 1840. Considering the way Daniel behaves during this meeting (and just prior to it when he was confusing all sorts of other things from the past), it's actually a wonder that he remembers his own name, and no wonder that he doesn't remember that Barnabas is "the secret."    However, things are very different shortly thereafter when Daniel meets Valerie (in Ep #1131) and does recognize her as Angelique. He does indeed put things together, saying something like, "And Barnabas -  if you have remained the same, has he?" But, of course, Angelique causes Daniel to forget his recognition of them for who they really are (revealing a shocking secret from Daniel's past in the process), and that's the end of that.[/spoiler]

[Connie]

[spoiler]...But, of course, Angelique causes Daniel to forget his recognition of them for who they really are (revealing a shocking secret from Daniel's past in the process), and that's the end of that.[/spoiler]

I'm confused (nothing new) 'cause I'm missing some episodes.  What was the shocking secret from Daniel's past?
Does it have anything to do with...

[spoiler]There's a scene where Quentin tells Daphne that his father killed his mother.[/spoiler]

I never saw anything else ever mentioned about this and wondered what the deal was.  He tells Daphne rather matter-of-factly and I was a bit confused 'cause Quentin loved his father very much and never exhibited any type of resentment, emotional baggage, etc.

 
I love 1840 ! ! 

[PennyDreadful]

[spoiler]There's a scene where Quentin tells Daphne that his father killed his mother.[/spoiler]

  Yep.

 [spoiler]Daniel murdered his wife Harriet. Her ghost was played Gaye Edmond. [/spoiler] 

 The 1840 family was a pretty screwed up bunch. 

 [spoiler]So I guess we can chalk up Daniel not initially recalling the secret to his delusional state.  Then, once Valerie/Angelique wipes Daniel's memory of her & Barnabas, she unwittingly alters history so that Daniel can never remember the family secret (Barnabas).  This would likely mean that Daniel never passed the secret on to anyone, and that no one in 1897 knew the secret.  Not to mention the fact that both Gabriel and Edith are dead by the end of 1840.  If this is the case, the entire run of events in early 1897 would be altered.  Hmmm.  Some fans have theorized that Edith survived 1840 via supernatural means, and still lived into 1897 regardless.[/spoiler] 

[Ian]

Penny, remember what ProfStokes had said.

Yes, Edith and Gabriel already had children by 1840 but they were away at boarding school during this storyline (a fact that appalled Aunt Samantha).

That means that Geoffrey was free to marry and have Edward, Judith, Carl, and Quentin. There's still the fact that Edith never learns the secret, and she....well....dies. I think that they could EASILY have gone back to the present to discover so many things differently there. Easily have saved the series, at least for one or two more plotlines, IMHO.

[Connie]

[spoiler]There's a scene where Quentin tells Daphne that his father killed his mother.[/spoiler]

  Yep.

[spoiler]Daniel murdered his wife Harriet. Her ghost was played Gaye Edmond.[/spoiler]

Is it explained how he did it and why?

[ProfStokes]

Is it explained how he did it and why?

[spoiler]He pushed her off Widows' Hill.  No direct motive was ever discussed though.  Daniel only says that he always hated Harriet.[/spoiler]

ProfStokes

[Misa]

It really seems that they should have had a motive. When you think about Daniel in the 1795 storyline; it is hard to think of him callously  killing someone just because he hated them.

Misa

[Midnite]

[spoiler]He pushed her off Widows' Hill.  No direct motive was ever discussed though.  Daniel only says that he always hated Harriet.[/spoiler]

And yet, [spoiler]when Daniel hears evidence that Quentin is a murderer (of Randall), he wants to rewrite his will immediately despite his son's protestations that he's innocent.[/spoiler]  So Daniel was harshly judging Quentin for a behavior that he was guilty of himself, the only difference being that Daniel's crime wasn't public knowledge whereas Quentin was arrested and charged.  Those wacky Collinses-- always putting public opinion and the potential for shame above all else.

[Joeytrom]

Daniel told Gabriel that he (Gabriel) was just like his mother, so she must have been a conniving kind of women.

[Gothick]

Penny, when I first saw this thread heading, my response was "doesn't she mean:  where were the writers' brains in 1840?"  But I digress...

[spoiler]When Julia first arrives in 1840, at the very beginning of the storyline, she's hiding out at Collinwood waiting for Ben Stokes to help her with her plan to pass herself off as yet another long-lost cousin (from the Philadelphia branch!) of the Collins family.  Daniel discovers her and begins to strangle her, saying that he knows she's really Harriet, and words to the effect of "you were such an interfering harridan, why don't you stay dead?"  I believe Ben intervenes to save Julia.  I understood from this episode that Daniel had seizures/attacks a la Caroline Lamb and that his mania took the form of killing his own wife. I suspect that Daniel's words in that show were the origin of the persistent fan rumor that Grayson played Harriet's ghost--actually portrayed by Gaye Edmond, as another fan noted.[/spoiler]

I've been away for a few days, playing with the Faeries.  The amusing chat here is one of the few things today that makes me feel that it's actually good to be back. Thanks, everybody.

G.