DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '14 I => Topic started by: Joeytrom on January 23, 2014, 11:00:13 PM
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There are many things that would be different but what would still have happened anyway?
The Liz/Jason story would play out the same way (except Jasons final outcome) and Chris Jennings would still be a werewolf (though never moving to Collinsport).
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Without Barnabas on the scene, there's no reason for Julia, Angelique. Nicholas or the leviathans to be in collinsport.
Eric Lang would have probably still followed through with his experiment. If Amy Jennings is not at Collinwood, I don't know it the Quentin/Beth haunting would have happened. Since the arrival of Hallie Stokes depends on an incident that occurs away from Collinwood, the Gerard and Daphne story seems more likely to have taken place. I guess it would have been left to Professor Stokes and possibly Madame Findlay to handle things.
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Love the idea of Madame Findlay & Mrs. Johnson either pairing up or bumping heads.
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After 1897, they should have brought Madame Findlay back as a recurring character...[spoiler]As she (and Ezra Braithwaite) would still be alive with the Quentin haunting not happening- as for people still remembering the haunting after 1897, I just say it was Leviathan induced so the family wouldn't accept Quentin, perhaps they saw him as a possible threat to their plan[/spoiler]
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Vicki would still be David's tutor, although she might face a life of lonely spinsterhood.
Joe and Maggie would have gotten married. And Sam would still be alive.
Willie would have remained a violent, two-bit punk and might have been run out of town with Jason.
Eric Lang probably would have finished the experiment himself, but he would have had to find somebody else to be his resurrectionist.
NO NED STUART!!!
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Liz would still blab at her forced wedding., but after Jason is arrested, in order to prevent a scandal, she'd drop charges and pay him off. He'd leave with Willie (but would they be back?).
Chris would still show up as a werewolf, but with no one to protect his secret, he'd be found out and killed.
Maggie would marry Joe.
The haunting of Collinwood by Quentin (and Beth) would precede, but without help he would succeed and David would die. Collinwood would be abandoned by the family who would move elsewhere. Collinsport would fall into economic ruin with the loss of Collins fishing. Maggie, Joe and Sam would move to New York. Vikci would get a job as a teacher in a school in Pittsburgh. The ghost of Gerard/Judah would come back and find competiition with Quentin in an abandoned Collinwood and would be really PO'ed that his plan to destroy the family was done by a later spook. They decide to haunt the place together to scare anyone, usually young people who've had too much to drink, to enter the empty house. Decades later, it would be featured on SyFy's Ghosthunters.
Carolyn would finally marry and get divorced. She'd get married again, and gets divorced. She'd marry a third time and gets divorced. After that, she becomes a scientologist.
Gerard
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Vicki would still be David's tutor, although she might face a life of lonely spinsterhood.
I always had this sneaking suspicion that Barnabas had something to do with Burke's "accident." Although I'm not sure how. It just seemed entirely too convenient.
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Gerard, Carolyn's fate is hilarious, as is most of the rest of your version.
Doctor, I also wondered a teeny bit about that plane crash. But unless Barnabas could somehow bat himself to South America overnight, I don't see how it could have happened.
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On second viewing I was satisfied that Barn had nothing to do with it. Until that second viewing though, I was leaning more towards him being involved.
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There wouldn't be any haunting of Collinwood as Amy came to Collinwood due to Toms death by Angelique. Tom would still be alive to take care of her.
Prof. Stokes knew the family only because of his interest in Angelique's portrait. Hallie would still be an orphan but she wouldn't come to Collinwood as her uncle would never meet the family.
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One can't really say never because some other circumstance may have cropped up in which Stokes became involved with the Collinses. [snow_smiley]
And given David's penchant for all things supernatural, we can't really know that on his own David wouldn't have somehow unleashed Quentin's ghost (we must remember David's strong resemblance to Jamison and how important Jamison was to Quentin). [snow_smiley]
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Stokes was interested in all kinds of psychic phenomena, so he might have become involved with the family while investigating Laura.
Carolyn knew Tom a bit because he had done some work for the Collinses. But without Angelique, he would have lived, and maybe brought Amy to Collinwood at some point, so she still could have met David. So we might still have the Quentin-Beth story. The writers could have killed Tom off some other way in order to bring Chris to Collinwood and start the Quentin's curse story.
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........then DS would have eventually become a teen romance drama, cancelled in 2011 along with All My Children and One Life to Live.
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it's been a long time since I've seen this part of the show but if I recall correctly Professor Stokes arrival at Collinwood had nothing to do with Barnabas originally. he came to look into the circumstances surrounding his distant relative Ben Stokes' time at Collinwood. of course he would have encountered Barnabas as part of that "history" but his present day "release" didn't factor into his reasons for launching his investigation...
the idea that Barnabas either caused or was somehow involved in Burke's plane crash is one of the series' great misconceptions. Sarah told Carolyn and David that someone was going to die. they heard it in the music. no one would cause it and nothing could stop it. then Vicki heard the wailing of the widows...
if one missed this particular episode or even just this scene it's easy to speculate on this point but the writers actually made it clear Barnabas would not be responsible for this event. as I recall he was as surprised(although pleased)as everyone else when it happened. why they decided on this rather than just having Barnabas kill him(a plane crash in Brazil was rather random and out of left field)we'll never know but that's how it went down.
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Doctor, I also wondered a teeny bit about that plane crash. But unless Barnabas could somehow bat himself to South America overnight, I don't see how it could have happened.
I'm convinced that the writers are in agreement with you. Officially, he most likely had nothing to do with it. There are no other hints that he did anything to the plane. But, I could think of a couple of possible scenarios, he could have bitten the pilot and ordered him to crash the plane just before the scheduled landing. Less likely to me, since he had no technical knowlege, he could have tampered with the plane, perhaps the fuel line. In absence of more evidence though, these ideas are just fodder for fanfic
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Michael C. brought up some very good points I'd forgotten. It was foreshadowed and obviously the intent of the writers was that it was an accident. Of course, Barnabas could have feigned surprise, but now the crash doesn't seem quite as random as it did before.
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Burke's crash: The writers (or plotters) give a strong impression here of wanting to have it both ways. There seem to be suggestions of both a murder and an accident. Barnabas implies he's about to take care of his Burke problem permanently, I think. It's a perfect way to do it. It falls right into his lap. But wait, no, turns out he didn't. I think he would have spent money for someone to sabotage the plane, that's how rich bastards do things. Or he could have appeared in the plane to do it himself. But again, wait no he didn't. I will guess that they felt they had to rewrite Barnabas's homicides (of an entire plane full of people) out, because it was too vicious for a popular character whom they were going to make decent in backstory very soon.
As for Amy, I had the impression that the souls of the two kids were gradually strengthening Quentin so that he came closer and closer to being able to act in the living world and leave his room. I don't think David could have done it alone.
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As for Amy, I had the impression that the souls of the two kids were gradually strengthening Quentin so that he came closer and closer to being able to act in the living world and leave his room. I don't think David could have done it alone.
Though we can never really know. And as DarkLady theorized, perhaps Amy would have come to be at Collinwood under different circumstances. Again, we can never really know. The only thing we actually have are our imaginations to theorize how it might have still happened because there's no real reason why Barnabas' absence would have completely prevented it...
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I read that the crash was to temporarily remove Burke from DS, except Anthony George decided to leave.
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I think AG said he thought he was leaving temporarily, only to find later that his exit as Burke was permanent.
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AG only had a six month contract (which is why Jeremiah had to be dispatched in 1795 so quickly). He only came on DS to potentially jumpstart his sagging primetime career. He actually felt daytime was beneath him - but before you judge him for that, that was the prevailing belief in most corners of acting. Doing daytime was considered the lowest job on the acting totem pole.
The irony is that because of DS, rather than getting primetime jobs, AG got other daytime jobs and he eventually became one of daytime's biggest stars, having very popular roles on Search For Tomorrow and One Life To Live.
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It never occurred to me that Barnabas may have had anything to do with the death of Burke. I always took the incident at face-value. It was convenient for Barnabas, and would have led to great plot development had the writers never introduced Jeff Clark. [snowball]
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It's fascinating to consider what DS might have been like either without Barnabas or if he had never been released from his coffin (two distinctly different options). The 1795 storyline could still have occurred but probably without Vicki Winters coming from the present day. And some of the later storylines could still have occurred, 1970 Parallel Time and the last storyline, 1841 PT. Things get much trickier trying to figure out what would have happened in the other storylines already mentioned.
It wasn't long ago that I re-watched the episodes where Burk's plane went down. There wasn't any reasonable way the Barnabas could have been involved, it was just a lucky coincidence. I agree that he was surprised by the news and secretly pleased.
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An interesting note about the Burke plane crash incident is that so far as I remember, this was the last time the writers played with the idea that David was actively clairvoyant. If I'm remembering correctly, that notion began with Burke himself present David with a gift of a crystal ball, so it's in some ways fitting that after Burke left, the subplot failed to be an active part of the proceedings. Of course, it could be argued that the "haunting of Collinwood" plot and subsequent developments still showed that David had a very special affinity for the spirit world, but that's a little different from having the gift of prophecy.
G.
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the writers seemed to throw clairvoyance or "second sight" at a character pretty randomly, and then just as quickly take it away, if it served a particular plot at a given point...
David had it through 1967. in 1968 Vicki suddenly developed a hitherto unknown "deep psychic connection" with Barnabas. Carolyn abruptly becomes Collinwood's resident "clairvoyant" sometime in 1969/70. I feel like other characters had it on and off too.
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I'd say that Willie exhibited signs of a type of psychic awareness in the episodes leading up to his releasing Barnabas. Interesting ideas there -- how "conscious" was Barnabas while chained up? Was he seeking someone to release him since 1795? Was Willie the first person ever to detect his summoning?
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I feel like other characters had it on and off too.
Don't forget Maggie's suddenly-psychic sensitivity during Leviathans. I still don't know where Barnabas came up with that thought.
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Barnabas summons people to let him out, but he can only connect with certain rare people, or so it seems to me. The one thing I'm certain about is that Barnabas was reaching out to Willie, but it's even possible Barnabas planted the jewelry obsession in Willie's mind to make the summons irresistible.
I've never bought the idea that Barnabas was somehow unconscious all the time he was chained up. I think that's wishful thinking on the part of those who don't want to imagine what being conscious all that time would have been like for him.
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I've never bought the idea that Barnabas was somehow unconscious all the time he was chained up. I think that's wishful thinking on the part of those who don't want to imagine what being conscious all that time would have been like for him.
I imagine that, as a vampire, he wouldn't have the same reaction to being chained in a coffin that a mortal would. (A positive side effect of vampirism -- it cures you of your claustrophobia!) I like to think of Barnabas as being in a highly receptive state of consciousness that allowed him to absorb the changes in the outside world, thus enabling him to adapt quickly to the 20th century.
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I see nothing onscreen to give the impression that being chained up for 175 years was not a horrible, unbearable experience. I see no reason not to think that he awakened every night and had to pass that time conscious, until becoming dead again at sunrise. Vampires can deal with going into the coffin every day, yes, but that's because they become unconscious and inert (in other words, a corpse) during the day, and anyway, going into a coffin every day is a LOT different from staying in there for 175 years. Imagine it. Being afraid of that isn't claustrophobia, it's just basic sense. No wonder Barnabas came out of the box psychotic, in 1967. It's a wonder he could control it to the extent he did.
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Lighten up, baby. It's just a TV show.
This forum is a bit intense for my tastes. See you later, kids.
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Lighten up, baby. It's just a TV show.
This forum is a bit intense for my tastes. See you later, kids.
!!!!!!! Well, that's the strangest and most sudden exit from a message board that I've ever seen. Well, DS is a horror drama, after all, some characters' experiences are going to be a bit intense. If it's just a TV show, why come to a message board to talk about it?
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"too intense"? compared to what???
compared to the insanity I've witnesses at other boards(relentless trolling, grown men weeping and threatening suicide over a movie)this board's a cake walk. [snow_huh]
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Goodbye that's all she wrote?
Kind of an extreme reaction to a very benign discussion.
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I see no reason to believe that Burke's accident was anything but that. Yes it was convenient for Barnabas, but you know, sometimes random things just happen and I think this was one of them.
As to what would have and would not have happened had Barnabas never been released, I think others on here have already listed most that I would agree with.