DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '06 II => Topic started by: Gothick on November 27, 2006, 03:47:56 PM
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Greetings, fans,
I've read that the US government has passed legislation requiring all broadcasts in the US to switch over to "HD" standard by 2009. Given something Darren wrote a couple of weeks ago about the basic requirement for content broadcast in HD, I'm wondering whether this means that old shows that were done on tape will no longer be able to be transmitted because of the low grade of their video bands. I can't recall the numbers but I have read that old video is WAY below the acceptable numbers for HD.
If this is true, I am presuming that as of 2009, there will no longer be any prospect of DS broadcasts on ANY channels in the US. I am quite curious as to what the results of this shift will be. I always said that if you took television away from the American people, revolution will result. As of 2009, from what I can understand, non HD sets will no longer be able to receive any signal whatsoever, which will cut out a sizable chunk of the US population that either can't afford to purchase HD equipment or refuses to do so for whatever reason.
cheers, Gothick
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I would think (though I could be wrong) there will be something in place to make it possible for low grade video to be transferred into an acceptable format for HD TV. There is too much at stake money wise to not have something in place. I hope so anyway.
Nancy
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OH I HATE it when the government tries to fool with TV. HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT! I can't say it enough. The day we let them control our boxes is the day that TV starts TO SUCK.
So, if the gov't wants everyone to upgrade to HD formats for everything, they better start shelling out the bucks to make them less expensive, or make a cheaper brand or something. More than likely by 09 HD stuff will be less expensive than it was. Kind of like VCRs---years ago they costed hundreds and even thousands of dollars, where as now you can get one for $50 or $25. Let's hope that HD speeds up that process.
Oh yea, I'd hate to see the prospect of DS never coming back on.
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Wait I'm confused, what does the government have to do with what kind of TV you own or what quality TV is broadcast at? ???
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I"m not sure the outdated FCC has jurisdiction over channels like Soapnet or TV Land, just local broadcast channels & the major networks.
David
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I"m not sure the outdated FCC has jurisdiction over channels like Soapnet or TV Land, just local broadcast channels & the major networks.
Believe me, they do. That's why I call them the TV Nazi's!
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Believe me, they do. That's why I call them the TV Nazi's!
sorry to hear this, Buzz.
Considering what's going on in the world these days, why would the govt waste their time with nonsense like this?
I don't need DS in HD,the show is fine as is!
David
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considering what's going on in the world these days, why would the govt waste their time with nonsense like this? I don't need DS in HD,the show is fine as is!
Hey, preaching to the choir on this one.
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As long as I have my DS DVD's, I am a happy camper because I can still watch them whenever I want and not on a "regular time" schedule sort of thing. I hear what you're saying though. You would think the goverment would have better things to do than interfere with television programming.
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I"m not sure the outdated FCC has jurisdiction over channels like Soapnet or TV Land, just local broadcast channels & the major networks.
Believe me, they do. That's why I call them the TV Nazi's!
Really? Is that so? I haven't heard that, in all seriousness. I was under the impression that the FCC had the most control over the four major networks-- NBC, ABC, FOX, CBS, and even The CW, but that they didn't have as much control over cable channels like FX, and especially not HBO. Maybe I should check out their site.
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You would think the goverment would have better things to do than interfere with television programming.
I wouldn't, and neither would they. Business is what everything comes down to, especially with a Republican government. We'll see if this HD thing changes when the new Congress takes over.
We're always being manoevered by corporations into having to buy more and more sophisticated devices, and they seem to always want to shut out and ignore the bottom end of the market who will never be able to afford them. They always try to tailor the economy for those who can spend more and more, including people who really can't afford it, and use credit to do it. Living beyond our means drives the economy. Making it impossible to watch non-HD signals makes that happen.
It never really works. They can invalidate and ignore the poor, and hope they go away, but they'll always be a very large market, as long as they're dealt with realistically, which can't be ignored---as long as business doesn't try to sell HDTV to them. Unfortunately the vices of the poor are marketed to, mostly... malt liquor, cigarettes, Red Bull, etc..-- the things that distract you from desperate circumstances. Oh, illegal drugs too.
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I've read that the US government has passed legislation requiring all broadcasts in the US to switch over to "HD" standard by 2009.
Okay cousins, spoke to a reporter who's beat is the televison (electronics side)/electronics industry who works where I used to work as a marketing assistant (about 100 years ago). Below is the 'skinny' on the changeover. As you'll see, thankfully, it's not as bad as some of us (me for sure) thought. We won't have to get HD TVs, as Gothick had thought, just ones that are digital which I'm pretty sure covers both my TV's and I daresay most of everyone else's here. ;) But, for those who don't have a digital TV, read on! Also, the question of what does the FCC have power over is also answered and as I suspected, they indeed ARE the TV Nazi's! ::)
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You are correct that the govt. enacted legislation establishing a "hard" cutoff date of the analog terrestrial broadcast service on Feb. 18, 2009. It means current TV sets that rely exclusively on an over-the-air analog signal will go dark on that date. The mandated changeover in fact is to digital from analog, not necessarily HD, as not all digital TV sets will decode HD and not to the maximum resolution possible ("1080p") using today's technology.
To protect one's analog set from going dark, there will be several available remedies: (1) Subscribe to cable or satellite; (2) Buy a TV set with a built-in digital ("ATSC") tuner. As of March 1, 2007, under FCC mandate, all TV sets shipped from the factory with a built-in analog ("NTSC") tuner must also include a digital ATSC tuner. (3) Buy a set-top DTV converter box, once they become available.
On the 3rd point, the law enacting the hard cutoff also provided for establishment of a program under which the govt. will mail $40 coupons to households that request them. The coupons then can be taken to retail and redeemed within 90 days toward purchase of an eligible DTV converter box through an eligible retailer. The box is expected to cost about $50. A household may request up to coupons, and the govt. is mandated on Jan. 1, 2008, to begin accepting those requests and mailing out the coupons.
Final rules for the program are being drafted as we speak that will govern which retailers will qualify to sell which boxes. But a couple of things to bear in mind: (1) Coupons likely will be distrributed on a first-come first served basis, while supplies last. (2) Supplies are not unlimited. Currently, there's enough funding for the program to cover about 35 million coupons, and opinions vary widely on how many TV sets rely exclusively on over-the-air analog. There's also very limited funding for a consumer education campaign, and it's assumed the CE industry will band together with broadcasters to mount the needed consumer outreach. But we'll see. For the time being, hundreds of millions of Americans -- including the "early adopter" consumers who usually are the most knowledgeable about new CE products and technologies -- have no idea the Feb. 18, 2009, date awaits them.
On another point you raise about FCC jursidiction, the Commission certainly does have oversight responsibility for cable and satellite in addition to traditional over-the-air terrestrial broadcasting. Ironically, though, the FCC figures rather little in the DTV coupon program, except for a role in which they'll help certify which boxes are eligible for the coupons.
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Who on earth still watches TV using their antenna? Apart from my mother-in-law that is... [hall2_shocked]
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My roommate still uses the rabbit ears. I've officially given up on broadcast TV although a friend of mine has been taping the new Dr. Who which I watch (I'm still halfway through Christiopher Eccleston) so I guess I'm cheating.
Thanks, Buzz, for posting this. I'd figured out that the shift was to Digital, not HD, but in running a Google search I discovered that a lot of the consumers who are aware of the 2009 cutoff date are confused on this point. Since it's Digital, that means that old shows on video will still be available to broadcasters, so long as they are in digital format--like our DVDs from the Dark Shadows master reels.
G.
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Who on earth still watches TV using their antenna? Apart from my mother-in-law that is...
Um, anyone who doesn't have Cable or Satellite! ::)
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That goes without saying, Buzz.
But analog antennna reception is beyond atrocious, and a joke, frankly.
The point is, if you actually love television, and seriously watch it, then I highly doubt you're watching it with rabbit ears.
If you don't care about television, at least enough to pay for even basic cable, to get any kind of tolerable picture, or are using your TV solely as a monitor to watch your VHS tapes and DVDs, then I doubt it'd cause you that much distress if the over the air reception just snapped off 3 years from now.
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That goes without saying, Buzz.
But analog antennna reception is beyond atrocious, and a joke, frankly.
The point is, if you actually love television, and seriously watch it, then I highly doubt you're watching it with rabbit ears.
If you don't care about television, at least enough to pay for even basic cable, to get any kind of tolerable picture, or are using your TV solely as a monitor to watch your VHS tapes and DVDs, then I doubt it'd cause you that much distress if the over the air reception just snapped off 3 years from now.
---Umm, unless like me, you live in an apartment where the landlord REFUSES to allow either cable or DISHtv--I'm stuck with rabbit ears, hate it, but we are not the only ones in this situation. There are more landlords than just ours who feel this way--it sucks, but it is reality.
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I have heard of the conditions that rainingwolf speaks of. That is happening around my area as well, and a few of my friends have experienced it upon moving out. And, for the first few years after we moved (a number of years ago, mind you) we had satellite but our service did not offer our local channels, so we had to use the rabbit ears to catch out favorite programs on network television.
And thanks also to Buzz for posting that article. After I thought about it I didn't think that everyone would have to convert to HD, and it made more sense to me to cut the rabbit ear transmissions. There's no way they could try to convert everyone to HD against their will--the gov't would be marched on in a heartbeat!
Still unsure about just how much the FCC rules over cable television. I understand that they have some regulations, I knew that before, but I don't think they stretch too far, though if I'm not mistaken there are a number of pesky lobbist groups out there trying to change all that.
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I don't think they stretch too far, though if I'm not mistaken there are a number of pesky lobbist groups out there trying to change all that.
They have been. But I suspect they *might* not get very far now that the balance of power has changed in Congress. However, several of the new members are "conservative" Democrats, so who knows? [idontknow]
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---Umm, unless like me, you live in an apartment where the landlord REFUSES to allow either cable or DISHtv--I'm stuck with rabbit ears, hate it, but we are not the only ones in this situation. There are more landlords than just ours who feel this way--it sucks, but it is reality.
Now that's bad. I've heard of landlords that won't allow satellite dishes, but not cable before. In my state, you have to allow cable by law. I imagine that other cities and states will also force that requirement by 2009 then. You might want to look into that though, as he may be in defiance of the local laws.
If not there's www.uhaul.com
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What is the rationale for not allowing cable in an apartment complex?
Nancy
---Umm, unless like me, you live in an apartment where the landlord REFUSES to allow either cable or DISHtv
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I live in an apartment complex (have been here for two years--and previously I lived in another apartment where we had the same cable/DTV systems), and we have cable TV (the cable is underground, and is of the fiber-optic kind), and some residents also have DTV satellite TV. I see the dishes all around me. Anyway, I have BrightHouse networks' digital cable TV, with HDTV and high-speed Road Runner internet service (@7MB/second), and the HD DVR from Scientific Atlantic. It's a very good system. As for older TV shows, the cable channels delivering the content should be able to convert them to the appropriate format for digital delivery (correct me if I am wrong, but I think the 2009 standards are not just about HD delivery, but are more about going digital!. If that's not the whole story, then I think the HD delivery, if that's what is required, must be backwards compatible to analog --i.e., non-digital-- receivers). FYI - the DS DVDs are digital, so they should play just fine in the future.
On another note, we still have telephone landlines, that are analog, even though we have digital cell phones. What a strange world: first there was the telephone (and telegraph), both connected by wire; then radio, over the airwaves; then we got television, also over the airwaves; then cable TV over wires; and there is Satellite radio and TV, over -- well-- satellite transmissions (without wires). Now we're back to cable transmssions for digital and HD TV (not to mention cable TV going back into the 60s). Soon, we'll have HD and digital TV over the airwaves or satellites....what goes around comes around, I guess. And who'a'ever'thunk we'd be watching a movie or TV shows on a plastic disc?
And wasn't DS originally taped via cameras in the studio that trasnmitted the sound and images over telephone wires to a remote location, like a truck or studio?
All very interesting, isn't it?
And one last question for Darren Gross....re HODS--if and when we see it on DVD will we get the full-screen picture we see on TCM and VHS cropped at 1.85:1 scale, or will there be additional picture information on both sides of the screen, as if the TCM and VHS versions were panned and scanned (with little or no actual P&S action)?
So many comments, so little time. LOL
Thanks,
Brian
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If you don't care about television, at least enough to pay for even basic cable, to get any kind of tolerable picture, or are using your TV solely as a monitor to watch your VHS tapes and DVDs, then I doubt it'd cause you that much distress if the over the air reception just snapped off 3 years from now.
For the first three years that I lived in my current location, I didn't have cable because I couldn't afford it. I could get PBS and so-so NBC reception. I was blissfully unaware of Britney Spears and amazingly productive. Ah, the halcyon days.
Seriously, though, whether someone has cable, dish, or antenna reception isn't a matter of "caring." In many instances, it's a matter of money. My grandmother cares intensely about Dr. Phil and Oprah Winfrey, but she won't spring for cable. ;)
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Who on earth still watches TV using their antenna? Apart from my mother-in-law that is...
Um, anyone who doesn't have Cable or Satellite! ::)
Two of my friends, a married couple are both tenured professors at a university. He's chairman of the department and even served as assistant dean. They have neither, and use the rabbit ears, twisting, turning, holding, stretching, standing on one foot to try and watch a TV show through snow and scrambled lines. I'm still trying to drag them into the eighties.
Gerard
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The point is, if you actually love television, and seriously watch it, then I highly doubt you're watching it with rabbit ears.
Um, I never said I was, think you misunderstood my post. You asked "who actually uses rabbit ears" and I answered that ppl w/out cable and/or dish do. Never said I didn't have cable. And, like others here have said, whether or not you have cable or dish, or not, has nothing to do w/how much you like TV.
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---Umm, unless like me, you live in an apartment where the landlord REFUSES to allow either cable or DISHtv--I'm stuck with rabbit ears
As Darren says, it's probably illegal for your landlord to refuse to let you have cable. And frankly that's just BIZARRE that he/she won't let you get it. What possible difference could it make to them and how would they even know if you had it? A dish I can sorta understand because it has to be attached somehow to the building etc...but there's no logical reason for your landlord to say you can't have cable. I'd take his suggestion and look into that. They can't do that I'm sure nor can they evict you for getting it (or refuse to renew your lease either). Anyway, I think most states allow for cable, especially in light of the fact that this changeover will happen in a little over 2 years and you may need to have one or the other to actually get a TV signal.
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The point is, if you actually love television, and seriously watch it, then I highly doubt you're watching it with rabbit ears.
Well, I actually love television and seriously watch it and still have an antenna.
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Well, as long as you've all got some device to watch DS videos or DVDs on, its all good.
And if by either choice or economic reasons you're relegated to using rabbit ears to watch your favorite programs on the glass teat, then by all means, do so, and if you enjoy it, all the better.
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On another note, we still have telephone landlines, that are analog, even though we have digital cell phones. What a strange world: first there was the telephone (and telegraph), both connected by wire; then radio, over the airwaves; then we got television, also over the airwaves; then cable TV over wires; and there is Satellite radio and TV, over -- well-- satellite transmissions (without wires). Now we're back to cable transmssions for digital and HD TV (not to mention cable TV going back into the 60s). Soon, we'll have HD and digital TV over the airwaves or satellites....what goes around comes around, I guess. And who'a'ever'thunk we'd be watching a movie or TV shows on a plastic disc?
And wasn't DS originally taped via cameras in the studio that trasnmitted the sound and images over telephone wires to a remote location, like a truck or studio?
All very interesting, isn't it?
And one last question for Darren Gross....re HODS--if and when we see it on DVD will we get the full-screen picture we see on TCM and VHS cropped at 1.85:1 scale, or will there be additional picture information on both sides of the screen, as if the TCM and VHS versions were panned and scanned (with little or no actual P&S action)?
So many comments, so little time. LOL
Hi Bri!
It is kind of besmusing to think that an antenna dish service could survive post-cable...Along the same lines, its interesting how we went from film soundtracks being recorded on a separate disc that had to be synced with the film projector, to sound on film, then back to sound on a separate disc for current DTS and other theatrical venues. Granted, a backup optical track is still left on the film as a failsafe, but it is funny how circular these things are...
re: HODS- If the transfer is done correctly (and there's no reason to think it wouldn't) then you'll see more imagery on the sides. Some TV broadcasts in the 70's and 80's of both films were made from 16mm and were shown open matte, which revealed boom mikes, floor marks etc. which were never intended to be seen. The VHS release isn't open matte, but is cropped on the sides. Granted, the compositions are not very tightly composed for the wider frame, so it never really looks too compromised. It's not pan n'scan, though, its a fairly dead center scan of the 1.85 frame, though there may be a shift here and there for balance, there are no artificial pans.
NODS on video is about half-way between an open matte transfer and a pan'n scan one, so that the sides aren't as severely cropped (though 1 shot crucially needs as much of the periphery as possible), but its opened up too much, showing a floor mic a couple of times and a boom mic in at least 1 scene. That one would be more noticeably improved by correct framing.
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Who on earth still watches TV using their antenna? Apart from my mother-in-law that is... [hall2_shocked]
Me. Since my already minimal Disability buying power is plummetting, the idea of my ever getting cable is laughable. My signal booster is out, and I can't afford a relacement, so I can't even get most stations since I'm halfway between two markets.
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OH I HATE it when the government tries to fool with TV. HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT!
I'm not up on the influence they have with the tube at this point in time but I do agree - they pretty much screw up everything they touch...like the opposite of the Midas touch, instead of turning to gold it turns to...well, you know. Good grief, look what they did to Amtrak.
The day we let them control our boxes is the day that TV starts TO SUCK.
As I sat there surfing for quality last night I could have debated that it already has in many cases...and I have digital cable with one set of premium channels. The fact that DS is no longer running just adds to my TV angst. But, I have to keep reminding myself that I have my DVD set to keep me content. Yet, there was just something about being able to watch it on TV at the same time as the rest of you on the board and coming here to comment/read about it. I miss the immediacy of that. (((sigh)))
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Yet, there was just something about being able to watch it on TV at the same time as the rest of you on the board and coming here to comment/read about it. I miss the immediacy of that. (((sigh)))
We could arrange together - those of who are lucky enough to have tapes and/or DVDs - to start coordinating our watching, one or two episodes per day. A little less spontaneous than seeing it on SciFi, but it might still be fun.
I myself don't have cable and I don't watch broadcast TV either. A decade and a half ago, when I heard that Dark Shadows was out on tape (long after it actually happened, I'm sure), I rented Dark Shadow tapes, watched the show for the first time in 20 years, and said to myself: "This is more fun than anything I'm watching now. No more inferior TV for me!" And that was that. A side benefit of all this occurs when I tell the story to non-Dark-Shadows-fans. What do you say when somebody tells a you a story that proves she belongs in a loony bin?
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Good grief, look what they did to Amtrak.
OMG! No kidding! I used to be able to go to NYC and back for $99 roundtrip in the '90's, now it costs $246!! I can fly for cheaper than that! >:(
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As Darren says, it's probably illegal for your landlord to refuse to let you have cable. And frankly that's just BIZARRE that he/she won't let you get it. What possible difference could it make to them and how would they even know if you had it?
When we moved in, I did call the cable company and they came out, but apparently had it in file that they cannot hook up here, told me that and left. My mom also lives in these apts. and she was told that the landlord asked for the cable wires to be put underground, and since they wouldn't do that, he would not allow it. This was all decided back in the 80's. I think most here are afraid to fight it because he keeps the rents so low to draw elderly and disabled, and no one want to rock the boat ($425/mo for a good size 2 bedrm is unheard of in this city) Still I might look into what you said about them needing to allow it, since all this was decided 20 years ago. Thanks for the info-I'll check it out.
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I think its pigheaded and cruel for the landlord of a building who specifically targets the elderly and disabled, to not allow cable. Many who are elderly and disabled are shut-ins and their only access to the outside world is through TV. To limit their choices and reduce their quality of lives as a result, bothers me.
If my grandmother had to pull herself out of her chair and cane her way over to the TV set constantly to wave the antennas around, thereby increasing her risk of a fall, and it was not by choice but by her landlord, I'd drag him out into the street and beat him like a borrowed mule.
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The day we let them control our boxes is the day that TV starts TO SUCK.
So... they must have started that control about 30 years ago!
Nothing could do more to ruin TV than bean counters taking responsibility for it away from the creative people, and they did that 30 years ago. I hear there are a handful of good shows on cable, but apart from Sopranos, I've never seen it and am skeptical.
Lydia... you're just the coolest!
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I just called my Congresswoman, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, & told her to mind her own damn business.
Thanks to Congress, I just lost WNBC TV from New York, which Dish Network let me watch here in SF CA, so I could see my hometown news.
I advised Mrs. Pelosi to worry about ending the war & not about what I was watching on TV!!!!!!!
But I like Lydia's idea a lot.
Let us with tapes/DVDs start watching a show a day starting Jan 1, syndication episode # 1, and chat about that day's show each night.
David
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We could arrange together - those of who are lucky enough to have tapes and/or DVDs - to start coordinating our watching, one or two episodes per day. A little less spontaneous than seeing it on SciFi, but it might still be fun.
I belong to a group for another TV show that did this when the series wasn't in syndication and it worked out really well.
I myself don't have cable and I don't watch broadcast TV either. A decade and a half ago, when I heard that Dark Shadows was out on tape (long after it actually happened, I'm sure), I rented Dark Shadow tapes, watched the show for the first time in 20 years, and said to myself: "This is more fun than anything I'm watching now. No more inferior TV for me!" And that was that. A side benefit of all this occurs when I tell the story to non-Dark-Shadows-fans. What do you say when somebody tells a you a story that proves she belongs in a loony bin?
People always give me strange looks when I tell them I don't watch new TV because it just isn't good enough. But if they want to think I'm crazy for that, so be it. Just as long as the loony bin they stick me in has a decent entertainment system and shelf space to hold my DVDs and videos. (Hmm...come to think of it, that sounds suspiciously like my dorm room.)
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I just called my Congresswoman, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, & told her to mind her own damn business.
Thanks to Congress, I just lost WNBC TV from New York, which Dish Network let me watch here in SF CA, so I could see my hometown news.
I advised Mrs. Pelosi to worry about ending the war & not about what I was watching on TV!!!!!!!
Umm . . . actually, if I understand the specifics of the situation correctly, the Dec. 1 cut-off of distant network channels was court-ordered and went forward because Congress failed to take any action before their Thanksgiving break, so they did mind their own damn business. [santa_wink]