DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
Members' Mausoleum => Calendar Events / Announcements Archive => Calendar Events / Announcements '24 I => Calendar Events / Announcements '09 I => Topic started by: bluefielder on April 13, 2009, 05:24:15 PM
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I just found this.
www.tvparty.com/70-dark-shadows.html
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As frank and outspoken as ever. [ghost_smiley]
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Wow! After reading that, all I can picture is Bette Davis saying: "Fasten your seat belts..."
Gerard
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Yeah, that was quite a ride.
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[smokn] [smokn] [smokn] [smokn] [smokn]
"Funny business, a woman's career..."
[smokn] [smokn] [smokn] [smokn] [smokn]
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What a character!
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Gotta love Sam. He is very outspoken. I enjoyed his interviews on the DVDs however I didn't think he would still be around, if we are being frank here. He seemed very frail. WOW...88..and still working! GOOD. FOR. HIM! I have to admit I would have killed to hang with him in Gray back in the day...
HOWEVER, I for one would be BEYOND proud of the fact that I worked on Dark Shadows...I don't get the ones that don't. Maybe if I had been I would have felt differently.
YAY...my 1200 post. I told y'all I am eyeing that GOD position!! [ghost_cheesy]
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Frankly, I don't love him. I think he's a sour, ignorant person.
How sad for SH that he worked all those years in the industry and is scarcely proud of anything he did. He has no room to talk about how miserable someone else is . . . it's all about the money for him.
And I am eyeing that Forum God position too. I want it, I want it.
nancy
Gotta love Sam.
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Ouch! [Wolfie] (Very talented writer, though!)
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What annoyed me most about that interview was what SH said about Dan Curtis having a "miserable life" and things of that nature. That's below the belt. Saying DC was not a thrill to work for is one thing but casting such a negative light on DC's personal life is just nasty.
nancy
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Well, I had discovered the interview a few days ago, but found it sooooo controversial that I couldn't tell anyone about what Sam said. And yes, I've heard some of what he has said before, but that's another story.......
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Charles, I never even looked at the date of the interview. When was it? I didn't find the interview controversial as much as rude and sad. That Frid is an odd actor isn't news but saying what he did about DC's personal life was, well, I've already said it . . . blech.
Nancy
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I use the term GOTTA LOVE HIM loosley! I did find the remarks about Curtis distasteful. How does he know he had a miserable life?? WOW...the whole part about David is very ballsy...
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I enjoyed the interview - particularly picturing Grayson Hall hanging around with Gore Vidal in Paris forty or so years ago. I wasn't offended by any of his opinions of people he knew.
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Is saying someone was miserable an insult?
Another thing, as fans we ache to know what these people really think, then they tell us, and then we blame them for it. I can blame someone for feeling contempt or judging or assuming unfairly, but not for expressing it.
I don't like his opinions, and I suppose I don't like him much, but I'm glad he's capable of being hard-edged and "snotty" at 88! That's what I'm hoping for!
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Is saying someone was miserable an insult?
If someone told a lot of people that I had a "miserable life" I would take that as an insult, yes, especially if the person was just a colleague and not someone who would really know one way or the other.
Another thing, as fans we ache to know what these people really think, then they tell us, and then we blame them for it. I can blame someone for feeling contempt or judging or assuming unfairly, but not for expressing it.
I am probably in the minority but I don't really want to know the petty thoughts of any performer or creative person about a colleague. I don't care. It's one thing to say you didn't along with so and so but quite another to speculate about what that person's personal life must be like.
I don't like his opinions, and I suppose I don't like him much, but I'm glad he's capable of being hard-edged and "snotty" at 88! That's what I'm hoping for!
There are a lot of people like that in prisons and asylums. [ghost_tongue] Oh no, did I say that! [ghost_mad]
No [ghost_mad] [ghost_nowink] it could not have been me that said that. [ghost_rolleyes]
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Actually I was worried that that post of mine would seem critical of you, Nancy, and I almost didn't post it. Then I decided I was worrying too much. Sorry.
There should be no shame in having an unhappy life.
I don't like his opinions, and I suppose I don't like him much, but I'm glad he's capable of being hard-edged and "snotty" at 88! That's what I'm hoping for!
There are a lot of people like that in prisons and asylums. [ghost_tongue] Oh no, did I say that! [ghost_mad]
Alright, now I feel less sorry.
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Oh I'm glad you realized you were worrying too much. I didn't take your post to be critical of me at all.
Nancy
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I enjoyed reading a little bit about Grayson and how she enjoyed cooking. I wonder what her favorite recipes were?
She is on my list of people I would have liked to have met as she sounds like a really cool lady!
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Interesting interview. Sam sounds more like Truman Capote than ever. I get that he did not like D. C., but from my one afternoon I spent with him, I recall that Sam used the words "madness" and "madman" in a way that denoted a kind of curious respect.
The one other thing I'll say about this is that if you survive to be very old, you get to say what you think as bluntly as possible and to hell with the consequences. It may not be pretty or respectable, but I see it as one of the perquisites of the very old. Just my personal two drachmae.
I spoke with David Selby a couple of times about Grayson, and he always spoke of her very fondly. I had no idea about the situation to which Sam alludes in his interview.
One of the people with whom Grayson, at least, remained friendly after the series went off the air was Joan Bennett. I remember Grayson's housekeeper telling me about the time Joan came to visit in Rhinebeck. Grayson was a guest at Joan's 65th birthday party in '73. I just love to think of these two ladies, each elegant in her own special way, talking over martinis and cigarettes.
G.
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Gothick, I was just going to post the same; if you're 88, you get to say what you want to say.
I found the article very interesting.....Gore Vidal, Paris, Grayson.
I like that he mentioned Erika Slezak as nice!
Patti
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I wonder about the disrespect for DS, considering he wrote so much of it. It comes across as sniping just a bit, but could it be more a sort of self-deprecation or insecurity over his own work (which almost everyone is bound to have sometimes)? Perhaps the bluster is a sort of cover for that. Just a thought.
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It's a valid thought Magnus, I know I am critical of my work too! I was thinking the same thing this morning when reflecting on the article!
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It may also be that it was a comparative reference.
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I tend to think not, Magnus. I've read interviews with Sam Hall and heard others comment about things he has said (he didn't start the negative, out-spoken thing at 88, he's been at it for decades) and I don't believe he had that much pride in his work on DS. To be fair, DC made working as a writer on that show a very difficult thing to do. DC was always pushing them to do something bigger and better each day which makes crafting a storyline hard.
Nancy
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The one other thing I'll say about this is that if you survive to be very old, you get to say what you think as bluntly as possible and to hell with the consequences. It may not be pretty or respectable, but I see it as one of the perquisites of the very old.
That would be me...
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I had watched the interview with the actress who played Hannah Stokes before I read the article and she stated that she knew the Halls and was a friend of Graysons. She remarked that Sam had been sending her husband, who was in the theatre world, plays and that they were not up to par so when he talked about being a playwright as preferred over being a mere daytime t.v. writer I had to laugh.
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what's funny is that hall sort of implies that frid did his career a disservice by refusing to appear in NODS...not exactly oscar worthy cinema.
realistically,i doubt it would have made a difference either way.
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I remember reading an interview with Sam Hall (I don't remember the year) sometime after DS went off the air. He mentioned something about Frid not wanting to do another DS movie but chose instead to do a play. Hall sniped that the play got "bad reviews" and he was sure Frid regretted his decision. I researched the reviews on the play and they were good reviews so I don't know where he got that information to form such an opinion. I don't really know what kind of reviews NODS received. I don't recall that HODS got wonderful reviews either . . . According to interviews Frid gave post-DS, he didn't regret being in the movies or taking on work in the horror genre. It might have played out differently if Frid was someone who actually liked horror films or had an interest in the supernatural but neither is the case.
nancy
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You came flying out of the womb wicked. We know this. [ghost_tongue] [ghost_tongue2]
nancy
That would be me...
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Alright, I think we'd have to find out how much SH was able to write what he wanted. I mean, not just plotting but the line by line dialogue. If DC was so controlling that he even managed to interfere with and ruin (in Sam's view) that, SH can certainly be critical of DS without indicting himself in the process.
On the other hand, if DC controlled plot, but left writers free to try to make that plot come alive with whatever lines they wanted to write.... then SH is perhaps directing inner criticism outward. I'm a total amateur obviously, but I would think that it's the responsibility of the writer to take what he's given to work with, and make it work. I think good writing in a disappointing plot is possible.
As for his Frid comments, I'm pretty sure he wasn't putting NODS on a pedestal. I think he probably meant that JF shouldn't have been so "proud" or "choosy" about his roles, considering that (in SH's opinion, not mine), Frid wasn't destined for a glorious stage career one way or the other. He seems to base this on JF's poor memorization of lines. You know, in the theater, they actually let you perform the same lines night after night, rather than making you memorize new ones every day!
My memory is considerably worse than Mr. Frid's. My life in the theater would have been extremely short and extremely undignified! It would have consisted of the words "Get out!!" at a very high volume...
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We love your for you delicious wickedness Janet! ;) I personally am glad that JF choose not to be in the second movie as it would have centered around Barney again. Plus if he didn't want to do it then I am glad he choose to do what he wanted. Nancy, I know you are friends with JF, so please don't think I am being derogatory towards him. I enjoyed NODS much more than HODS, which had nothing to do with Frid. I also have the complete script with Grayson's notes, and the movie, in tact is quite a masterpiece, in my opinion. I really look forward to Darren's restored version. I hope to the GODS that is come to fruition!
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You came flying out of the womb wicked. We know this. [ghost_tongue] [ghost_tongue2]
You came flying out of the womb under your own power, Janet? Wicked!
And we aren't quite old enough to speak our minds without getting bitten in the ass for it yet, trust me! Do it anyway please!
Hi T!
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The one other thing I'll say about this is that if you survive to be very old, you get to say what you think as bluntly as possible and to hell with the consequences. It may not be pretty or respectable, but I see it as one of the perquisites of the very old.
On Kathy Griffin's latest special she talks about how her 88 year old mother moved out of her house because, at 88 she's very honest and tells her daughter, "you annoy me." LOL! [ghost_cheesy]
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Here's the unedited, complete interview:
http://www.rollmagazine.com/# (The April 10th issue)
BTW, judging from the front photo, Sam Hall is looking more like Sydney Greenstreet every day!
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I think for now this link is more direct? Maybe it keeps on getting refreshed:
http://www.rollmagazine.com/theatre.html
I am not going to let this article change my respect for Sam and Dan in any way. I just think Sam lost his persepective of DS and DC through the years.
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Thank you for the links! jimbo, yours showed up right while I was stumbling about trying to find the durn thing.
I can't say I agree that SH "lost his perspective," but I also don't accept that advanced age is ever an excuse to spill your co-workers' secrets. Being rude or gossipy is a choice that anybody can make at any age, and being older doesn't make it okay. And I think it's quite obvious in the interview that his faculties are intact. It's one thing to gain the maturity to stop caring about what other people think, but this is not the same thing as not caring whom you hurt when you choose to speak frankly in an interview. Of course he has a right to tell secrets if that's his choice, but age is not the issue there. Just MY 2 cents.
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I've never had much respect for SH or DC. I think they are both highly overrated in their respective fields - so I'm good.
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I agree with you wholehearedly Midnite. And when I said "you gotta love him" it was figure of speech! I mean I like Sam, don't get me wrong, but I wonder how much of that has to do with Grayson! [ghost_undecided]
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Oh Taeylor, you didn't have to explain.
Here's the unedited, complete interview:
Actually, much of the name dropping in the TV Party interview didn't make it into the magazine.
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Midnite you raised a good point. Sam did indeed make inflammatory accusations about Dan's character and reputation and made them when Dan is not here to defend himself if he so choosed; and Sam made these hurtful comments in a calculating way. He sounds like a very bitter man and instead he should be thankful. And Sam should indeed be accountable for his personal attack. I am certainly not going to defend him-if Sam wanted to hurt his own legacy, so be it. The article just doesn't diminish Sam's contributions in my eyes. I don't like what he said and I hope he regrets his hurtful comments about Dan and Dan's legacy. I certainly lost some respect for the man.
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Midnight and Jimbo, you both made excellent points! I agree that the professional information was legit; however, personalities and gossip were out of bounds. There's a difference between outspoken and rude, and parts of this article really crossed the line. He could have expressed professional disagreement with Dan Curtis without making, amongst other inappropriate comments, a sweeping statement that the man had a "miserable life" -- which, after all, is nothing but his opinion, not based on any special knowledge. All in all, very shabby behavior.
Don't think he would care to have someone else speaking about him that way, in a venue where the family could read about it and possibly be hurt. My guess is he'd probably be the first one to scream bloody murder.
Jeannie
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Then again, the world would be pretty boring if everybody behaved themselves.
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Fascinating and amusing reading ... The reviews I've seen of Frid's stage work in the 1960s and '70s were very good, and would seem to belie Mr. Hall's cutting remarks. And his comment that he doesn't understand why DS continues to live on seems rather perversely disingenous. How about the fact that it's a highly original blend of melodrama, gothic romance, the supernatural - with complex characters and relationships that span generations, and reinterprets those characters in interesting ways in different time periods, while still focusing on the effects of all this on a modern day family and personal relationships such as unrequited love, while frequently drawing on primeavel fears and archtypes? Those are just a few thoughts that spring to my mind.
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I don't like the fact that he said Dan spent his whole "LIFE" trying to redo DS! That was a part of it, however, Dan made THE WINDS OF WAR & WAR AND REMEBERANCE, two Emmy winning programs. His legacy is intact! I think he just had a great love (whether he would admit it or not) for DS and wanted to see it continue in some form.
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How about the fact that it's a highly original blend of melodrama, gothic romance, the supernatural - with complex characters and relationships that span generations, and reinterprets those characters in interesting ways in different time periods, while still focusing on the effects of all this on a modern day family and personal relationships such as unrequited love, while frequently drawing on primeavel fears and archtypes? Those are just a few thoughts that spring to my mind.
Excellent description of why it worked, despite all the weaknesses that happened (and that we fans are usually the first to comment on). What makes it work is very much like what made Star Wars work, despite the fact that on the surface, it's just corny space opera. Both works swipe stuff left and right and sideways from the classics. (In DS case, novels while in the case of Lucas' movies, its old movies, etc. with strong doses of Bruno Bettelheim (The Uses of Enchantment) and Joseph Campbell thrown in.) The pieces themselves are deriviative, but they tap into the same universal truths as folklore and fairy tales, which is why the source materials were classics in the first place.
Jeannie
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I think many see it as melodrama, and not that many people would put "melodramatic" in a list of positives. That would partly explain Hall's attitude. With some directors (and an executrive producer?) coming close to telling actors to ham it up, maybe Hall had some trouble feeling good about the lines he'd written, after seeing some performances in some storylines.
I've been marathoning 1897 too fast, and have been noticing too much the fact that everyone could have toned the acting down, not a lot, just a bit. Aristede, Amanda Harris, and once in a while Beth are a little overplayed, with the lines "over-enunciated".
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I just moved (back home to Maine! Yay!) so I haven't been around at all. Stumbled on this article by accident and had to come over here and see what the word was with you good folks. I haven't seen/read much from SH concerning DS or his work on it, but this interview almost had me falling on the floor in shock. Most of what I thought has already been said so I won't repeat it. I would just like to say that I think DS is one of those things that people either "get" or they don't.
I don't like the negative tone SH used in the article (or maybe that's just me taking it that way) towards people who do enjoy it, as if it's just trash entertainment and should be dismissed as such. [ghost_tongue] Those digs were completely unnecessary.
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I just moved (back home to Maine! Yay!) so I haven't been around at all.
Congrats on the move back to Maine! [ghost_smiley] Glad your absence was because of a good reason, not something bad happening.
Jeannie
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http://www.tvparty.com/70-dark-shadows.html
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Welcome back arashi! Where were you till now?
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DC didn't spend the rest of his life trying to re-do DS. When it left the air, he distanced himself from it and wouldn't talk about it. I read in a fanzine in the 80's that DS was a subject they weren't to discuss in the DC Productions office. It was only in the late 80's that he started to warm up to DS again.
Sam Hall had made similiar comments about DC (he also ripped Malcom Mamorstein) in one of the DS Files magazines in te 80's. Around 1986-1987 there were a few issues made, though they were poorly edited.
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I'm like, wow, talk about biting the hand that fed you and your family. I thought the story was that the Halls were in a financial bind and on the verge of moving back to Sam's hometown so he could take over his father's business, and Grayson getting the "Julia" role at the last minute "saved" them from that. Not that they wouldn't have adjusted somehow, I'm sure, but it probably wouldn't have been a comfortable fit all around.
Thanks to both parties eventually being employed by Dan Curtis, the Halls were able to stay in the NYC area and do a lot of what they really wanted to do, unhampered by small-town strictures. If Sam's still resentful because nobody saw him as a second Arthur Miller or whatever, and he had to work on TV dramas and such, well, he was still writing. And still is and unto whenever he passes away--- how many of us can say we not only got to make a living doing what we really want to do, using our talents (whatever they may be), and almost literally right up until the day we die?
And how many mere soap opera writers have had their work live on for decades? At some point, one just has to make peace with one's legacy, even if it wasn't one's original intention.
As for his commentary about other persons of his acquaintance, living and dead, it's already been said and much better by others here.
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Very well said DF! I hate that Sam seems so bitter. And I too wish that my "passion" was my job. Even if it wasn't my idea situation! From Gray's biography that seems to be the story that DS saved their family from moving to Ohio. I think that Matt and Sam talk about this too in The Companion! Oh well....some people are never happy! [ghost_sad]