Author Topic: Comeuppance  (Read 4933 times)

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Offline Cassandra Blair

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2002, 09:21:13 PM »
Isn't it kind of a double standard to say that Rachel's a loosey-goosey for going to meet Barnabas in the middle of the night, or for accepting his gift when he's in it as well?  And it's not exactly like the music box he gave her was a negligee or a pearl necklace.

To be honest, none of the 1897 characters are what I would call nice people, or of high morals.  IMHO, Rachel isn't as nasty or backstabbing as most of the Collins family. Of course, that's what keeps the show interesting! ;)

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Offline onyx_treasure

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2002, 10:33:34 PM »
Quote

Once again, the writers have written a character so badly that even tho she would seem to deserve all the sympathy in the world, it's hard for many of us to feel it.
raineypark

    That sums it up perfectly for me.  The writers took a Jane Eyre character but did not develop her.  They throw her right into the thick of things and she makes one blunder after another.  She is not shown with the children much.  Her interaction with the other servants makes them suspicious of her.  If the writers had wanted her to appear sympathetic, they did a poor    job.  I don't think anyone deserves the childhood Rachel was given.  However, the writers should not have made her into a nincompoop.  
There are two means of refuge from the misery of life--music and cats.  Albert Schweitzer

Offline kuanyin

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2002, 01:38:57 AM »
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    That sums it up perfectly for me.  The writers took a Jane Eyre character but did not develop her.  They throw her right into the thick of things and she makes one blunder after another.  She is not shown with the children much.  Her interaction with the other servants makes them suspicious of her.  If the writers had wanted her to appear sympathetic, they did a poor    job.  I don't think anyone deserves the childhood Rachel was given.  However, the writers should not have made her into a nincompoop.  


Have to agree with that! One big difference between Vicky and Rachel is that Vicky REALLY CARED about her employers and wanted to do a good job teaching David. Rachel listens to her employers and does exactly what they say not to do. Vicky would occasionally cross Liz or Roger, but only when she felt she had to. And then she would bravely face them and explain herself.

Of course, that is early Vicky, when the character was someone we could all admire. Her intelligence deteriorated something dreadful, but having established the earlier character helped keep her from being as bad as Rachel.

And if I were Beth, I would have been seriously tempted to punch Rachel in the nose. She can't be ANY clearer with the twit, and yet, here comes Rachel time and again going over the same stuff and pretending like it is because she wants to be friends. She just can't stand to not get what she wants or to have someone not adore little old her.
"If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly, rather than not at all." G.K. Chesterton

Offline Luciaphile

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2002, 01:57:24 AM »
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Isn't it kind of a double standard to say that Rachel's a loosey-goosey for going to meet Barnabas in the middle of the night, or for accepting his gift when he's in it as well?  And it's not exactly like the music box he gave her was a negligee or a pearl necklace.


Of course, it's a double standard! :( Men were free to do whatever the hell they wanted; it was women who had to abide by all those ridiculous social restrictions.

The gifts though--he gave her a necklace (the ankh cross) and the music box. When you consider the times, those were both pretty substantial gifts.

I'm not saying that she's a morally reprehensible person for accepting the gifts or running out into the woods in the middle of the night, but by the standards of the times, those would not have been considered advisable or admirable actions in a young woman.

Luciaphil

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Offline Cassandra

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2002, 11:19:26 AM »
Luciaphil Wrote:
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When Vicki went a snooping, usually there was some relatively logical reason for her to do so (e.g. hears sobbing in the middle of the night and is worried someone needs help).  And at least for the first year or two, Vicki actually appeared to be doing the tasks she was employed to do.


Exactly!  Vicky had plenty of good reasons for snooping, some of which you've mentioned, and also because she naturally wanted to find out more about her heritage and backround. (which sadly, never came about)  
The difference between these two women was also in the WAY  they went about finding something out. Vicky was very upfront & honest about her desires to find out about her backround. She was constantly telling Liz & those around her what her motives were and whom she had spoken to, (The Garners) and while Liz wasn't all too thrilled with her ideas, it nevertheless showed how pure her motives were and that she wasn't just out to "snoop" for the sake of just being nosy.  And last, but certainly not least, Vicky at least had something to gain by her snooping.

Rachel, on the other hand had nothing to gain by being a snoop, except of course to only satisfy her own curious imagination.

What if Rachel did indeed come face to face with Jenny the night that she stole the key and went up to the Tower room?  What could she possibly gain by this? NOTHING!  Except again, to satisfy her own curious imagination.

Also, Vicky would never lower herself by stealing something that didn't belong to her just out of curiosity. Vicky may have been totally clueless at times, but at least her motives were pure.;-)

Quote


Have to agree with that! One big difference between Vicky and Rachel is that Vicky REALLY CARED about her employers and wanted to do a good job teaching David. Rachel listens to her employers and does exactly what they say not to do. Vicky would occasionally cross Liz or Roger, but only when she felt she had to. And then she would bravely face them and explain herself.


Ditto!  Rachel has been told numerous times by her Employers and Beth to mind her own business and quit snooping around.  Yet, she still defies them all!  If she needed this job as badly as we all think she does, wouldn't she just listen and keep her nose out of things that don't concern her?

Vicky had a whole different approach to things. She knew when to keep her nose out of other people's business.  The only time she got involved in someone else's business was when she stepped in to help save David from his crazy mother, and even that took her some time to do.  As I recall in the beginning of the Laura/Phoenix storyline, Vicky was all for the idea of David & Laura getting to know one another better because she thought the child really needed his mother. Here, it showed how she was only looking out for David's well being.  It wasn't until much later when she realized how dangerous Laura was that she finally stepped in and got involved.

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And if I were Beth, I would have been seriously tempted to punch Rachel in the nose. She can't be ANY clearer with the twit, and yet, here comes Rachel time and again going over the same stuff and pretending like it is because she wants to be friends. She just can't stand to not get what she wants or to have someone not adore little old her.


Like I said before, she has to be the center of attention at all times.
"Calamity Jane"

Offline Birdie

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2002, 04:30:05 PM »
I was the one who jokingly said Rachael would go for anything in pants.  Truly, I think she wanted to be loved but more than that she wanted someone to take her out of the situation she was in.  Her relationship with Barnabas never went far enough for her to have "fallen" in love with him.  That is once again the writers fault.  It was totally inappropriate of Barnabas to give her gifts or for her to accept them.

I don't hate Rachael, I just wish she had been written in a better manner.

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Offline Mark Rainey

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2002, 06:27:07 PM »
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I don't hate Rachael, I just wish she had been written in a better manner.

I know what you mean, Birdie. I often feel the same way about my boss at the office.

--Mark

Offline Cassandra

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2002, 10:49:05 PM »
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I know what you mean, Birdie. I often feel the same way about my boss at the office.


ROTFL!!!  Mark, you come up with the funniest lines sometimes!

Cassandra[/font]
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Offline Cassandra Blair

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2002, 09:36:45 AM »
Can't think of any cogent reasoning as to why (too tired), but I guess I just disagree about Rachel.  IMHO she's an interesting character who wasn't that well written, but wasn't the self involved hussy depicted in this thread.

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Offline dom

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2002, 11:21:35 AM »
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Can't think of any cogent reasoning as to why (too tired), but I guess I just disagree about Rachel.  IMHO she's an interesting character who wasn't that well written, but wasn't the self involved hussy depicted in this thread.


I'm still with you on this, Cassandra B. And no amount of cogent reasoning could change my mind. Speaking for myself, it's all a matter of how one wants to perceive the character. I'm willing to give Rachel the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn't expect her to act any differently under the circumstances than she has. Put yourself in her place, I say.

It makes me think of the reasoning behind Viki being called dumb because she "doesn't understand". Who on God's green earth would understand all the weird crap that happens at Collinwood? I think "I don't understand" is the single most logical (and honest) statement anyone could give under those circumstances.



Gimmie a break!
dom

Offline VictoriaWintersRox

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2002, 06:16:46 PM »
I don't hate the character, but she isn't among my favorites in this storyline. The Trask situation has made her character better, in my opinion, but she could use a little better writing. Some of her actions serve no purpose other then to snoop around. For instance, when Vicki went to see what the sobbing noise was, she was trying to find out who was crying, why they were crying, and if she could help them. When Rachel went to investigate the light in the tower, she did it out of pure curiosity. I would've at least asked if I could go up there instead of just stealing a key. However, I feel sorry for what has happened to her in the past, and what has happened between her and Barnabas.

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It makes me think of the reasoning behind Viki being called dumb because she "doesn't understand". Who on God's green earth would understand all the weird crap that happens at Collinwood? I think "I don't understand" is the single most logical (and honest) statement anyone could give under those circumstances.


LOL, That is true. I would probably be doing the same thing. Lord knows if I was her when she returned from 1795 I would've checked myself into Wyndcliffe. I can't blame her for her attitude, since most people would not believe that this was really happening to them.

Offline Julia99

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2002, 10:40:52 PM »
Quote



It makes me think of the reasoning behind Viki being called dumb because she "doesn't understand". Who on God's green earth would understand all the weird crap that happens at Collinwood? I think "I don't understand" is the single most logical (and honest) statement anyone could give under those circumstances.

Gimmie a break!
dom


Vicki is perceived as dumb 'cuz she stayed and often set aside obvious problems. .i think.  I mean Julia stayed too and that was dumb. . THEY are ALL DUMB!  But aren't most people on most television shows. . .??
Julia99

Offline kuanyin

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2002, 02:05:29 AM »
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I'm still with you on this, Cassandra B. And no amount of cogent reasoning could change my mind. Speaking for myself, it's all a matter of how one wants to perceive the character. I'm willing to give Rachel the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn't expect her to act any differently under the circumstances than she has. Put yourself in her place, I say.

It makes me think of the reasoning behind Viki being called dumb because she "doesn't understand". Who on God's green earth would understand all the weird crap that happens at Collinwood? I think "I don't understand" is the single most logical (and honest) statement anyone could give under those circumstances.



Well, we all have our individual responses to characters and talking about it for me isn't intended to change anyone's mind! God forbid, and I know I couldn't change the guys here ANYWAY! [wink2]

I know a large part of my reaction to Rachel is pure jealousy, because I see her as a twit and guys just love her. I'm hoping that noone takes it personally, these ARE fictional characters. [sssh]

As for Vicky being dumb, no, no, no, it is NOT because of "I don't understand." It is about Jeff Clark! [puke]And to a lesser degree Burke Devlin #2.... [twch2]
"If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly, rather than not at all." G.K. Chesterton

Offline Cassandra Blair

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2002, 06:04:39 PM »
I know *I* didn't take it personally about anyone in this thread disliking Rachel.  I just felt kind of outnumbered. So thanks Dom, for the validation. ;)



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Offline jennifer

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Re: Comeuppance
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2002, 11:01:46 PM »
you should'nt feel"gained up on" Cassandra B  you're entitled to your views Just for the record I DETEST
Amanda Harris [puke]don't care if everyone else likes her
say what you want about any of the roles  as far as i'm concerned Just don't back down That's what makes this forum so much fun!!!!

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