Oh No.....not Betsy Durkin!!!!!!

[Bouchard]

you people are terrible! It has gotta be hard to replace such an important person in a show. And, Betsy Durkin looked like she was eating rice and tofu (not ding dong's or whatever). She didn't have flabby arms or anything. I feel bad for her, for what she's probably have had to go through, because of cruel fans. And I don't know why you are making a big deal about her. She's only in 10 episodes.

[Luciaphile]

you people are terrible! It has gotta be hard to replace such an important person in a show. And, Betsy Durkin looked like she was eating rice and tofu (not ding dong's or whatever). She didn't have flabby arms or anything. I feel bad for her, for what she's probably have had to go through, because of cruel fans. And I don't know why you are making a big deal about her. She's only in 10 episodes.

Durkin isn't heavy, but she's shorter than AM and she's also got a fuller face.

Aside fron her personal appearance, though, she's is (or was) an actress, and taking criticism for one's performance is part of the job.

I'm less than impressed with Durkin.  She's more querulous than anything else.  I think the part of Vicki could have been recast successfully.  They had a fair amount of heavy story going on at the time; why they didn't take the time to close that out properly and use the extra time to recast someone who was a better performer is a mystery.

Carolyn Groves does a rather nice job and it's a pity they didn't go with her instead.

Luciaphil

[AllMyShadows]

you people are terrible! It has gotta be hard to replace such an important person in a show. And, Betsy Durkin looked like she was eating rice and tofu (not ding dong's or whatever). She didn't have flabby arms or anything. I feel bad for her, for what she's probably have had to go through, because of cruel fans. And I don't know why you are making a big deal about her. She's only in 10 episodes.

Anyway, bad cast changing is terrible. On "All My Children," they replaced a short blonde actor with a tall brunette. A dark, round faced man with a light, long headed dude.

[Miles]

Aside fron her personal appearance, though, she's is (or was) an actress, and taking criticism for one's performance is part of the job.

I dunno...

I mean, she sucks, but shes not the worst ever.  I'm sure you could have fished around and found a boatload of worse VW's.  I think a lot of Durkin's "badness" or whatever comes from her replacing the wrong actress, and I don't think shed have been quite so inept in an original role.  As for taking criticism being part of the job, I'm not sure anyone deserves to be blasted every 3 years from here to eternity.

On the other hand... she (and all the other actors) probably does get a very small check in the mail everytime one of these episodes is shown, so i guess we can go at her.

[Nancy]

Actually, no.  The bigger "stars" of DS don't even get a small check anymore in the current syndication, never mind the actors who appeared on the show even less.   And the actors had to chase after MPI for several years just to get paid for the video release in some nominal way.

On the other hand... she (and all the other actors) probably does get a very small check in the mail everytime one of these episodes is shown, so i guess we can go at her.

[Midnite]

Debate is expected on a discussion forum, and giving the reasons for disagreeing with another opinion is encouraged, but as stated in the guidelines, attacking other posters for their opinions is NOT allowed.  I'm removing the instances of calling someone else rude (hello?), and I'll warn that if any posters want to continue to attack other posters in this topic because they don't like their opinions, they may find themselves temporarily unable to do more on the forum than just read the messages.  Thanks.


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[Connie]

Actually, no.  The bigger "stars" of DS don't even get a small check anymore in the current syndication, never mind the actors who appeared on the show even less.   And the actors had to chase after MPI for several years just to get paid for the video release in some nominal way.

Hi Nancy,

I've often wondered about this.  I don't understand how an actor can not be paid when their work is televised.  Is it different for actors than for musicians?
Do you  happen to know what union(s) actors belong to?  

I know that if an old show is televised, and a musician performed on it, they have to be paid.  They won't be paid voluntarily mind you, but if you contact AFTRA, and give them the show, when it was aired, etc., you will be sent a check....somewhere in the vicinity of $100 to $200 - give or take.

Did the actors just get paid one flat fee from MPI and that's it?

This all seems very unfair.

-Connie

[Nancy]

Connie,

You might be horrified to know that most of the performers in the best loved shows of the 1960s and early 1970s made little or no money when the television shows that made them household names went in syndication.  Much of the reason had to do with no contractual consideration for the event of rebroadcasting the shows.  The syndication of TV shows came later than when original contracts were drafted and signed.   The same is true with merchandising deals.  DS actors whose likenesses were used on DS merchandising were paid a flat fee.  Agents of the time didn't forsee that merchandising would again be an issue with the syndication of the TV show because syndication was still to be a new thing.

Ultimately, the in the case of the business with MPI, the actor's union for TV and radio A.F.T.R.A. stepped in and some agreement was reached. However, this much I can tell you - no DS performer made big money off of DS. Those who did make good money in the very lucrative personal appearances/publicity tours done at the time.

I'm being overly simplistic regarding the above as there is much more involved than what I'm talking about.  However, that is the gist of it.

Nancy

[Cassandra]

Carolyn Groves does a rather nice job and it's a pity they didn't go with her instead.

Luciaphil

Yes, I totally agree.  I just finished watching Carolyn Groves on my MPI tapes and thought she did a good job as Vicky. It also didn't hurt that she had the same long brown hair as A.M. did.

I think the writers probably realized (somewhat too late) that Betsy wasn't hitting it off as Vicky, and also perhaps with the fans as well. Otherwise, they would have kept Betsy Durkin on and not even bother to re-cast Carolyn Groves as Vicky #3.

What really got me was the fact that such an important character role such as Vicky's was re-cast so suddenly without much thought going into the actual replacement. They must have had some idea that A.M. was planning to leave the show. Why didn't they take the time to do the job right the first time around?  Carolyn Groves would have worked out fine and perhaps they might have even found some more storylines to add her into as Vicky.

[Nancy]

The writers/producer probably didn't care.  The character of Vicky had become less and less important to the show and since they were going to tie up that loose end, I don't imagine much thought or care went into the replacement.  First available and most tolerable for the camera, lol.  I don't imagine much effort went into the casting process since the character was being written out and the episodes featuring the replacement would never been seen again in their mind.  Just guessing of course.

nancy

I think the writers probably realized (somewhat too late) that Betsy wasn't hitting it off as Vicky, and also perhaps with the fans as well. Otherwise, they would have kept Betsy Durkin on and not even bother to re-cast Carolyn Groves as Vicky #3.  

What really got me was the fact that such an important character role such as Vicky's was re-cast so suddenly without much thought going into the actual replacement. They must have had some idea that A.M. was planning to leave the show. Why didn't they take the time to do the job right the first time around?  Carolyn Groves would have worked out fine and perhaps they might have even found some more storylines to add her into as Vicky.

[Miss_Winthrop]

I can't agree with the harshest critics of Miss Durkin.  She probably did the best she could walking into a major role without much preparation.  

I agree that her voice was a little too shrill.  Despite that, I still remember thinking that it was good to see Victoria have a little gumption for a change.  She didn't give the impression of being a shy, retiring little wall flower.  Her physical appearance was a little more athletic looking then AM also.  I could picture her working out on the treadmill in the cellar.

From what I've read, Miss Durkin's natural hair-color was blonde and they died it brown for the role.  Her face and skin coloring were actually very pretty.

She did seem to kiss Jeff Clark with much more enthusiasm than AM did towards the end of the show. Overall, besides the shrill voice, I can't give her bad marks for her performance.  A six out of a possible 10 if you will.

[Luciaphile]

You might be horrified to know that most of the performers in the best loved shows of the 1960s and early 1970s made little or no money when the television shows that made them household names went in syndication.  Much of the reason had to do with no contractual consideration for the event of rebroadcasting the shows.  The syndication of TV shows came later than when original contracts were drafted and signed.   The same is true with merchandising deals.  DS actors whose likenesses were used on DS merchandising were paid a flat fee.  Agents of the time didn't forsee that merchandising would again be an issue with the syndication of the TV show because syndication was still to be a new thing.

I've read of this happening outside of DS.  In Ginger Rogers' autobiography, she wrote that at some point her mother (IIRC) had suggested that Rogers' agent fight for provision for "television" in her contract, but no one had any idea at the time what television really was or could be, so the agent didn't press for it and as a consequence, Rogers never got any residuals when her films were screened on television.  This seems to be fairly typical from what I've read.

There was also a western star whose name I forget--his agent had fought for the TV clause--after his heyday the actor had washed-up for a time, broke, of course.  Was considered a has-been.  When they started airing the old westerns on TV, the actor was one of the few who cleaned up big time.

And didn't Peggy Lee sue Disney when they released The Aristocats on video because she didn't get any recompense?

Luciaphil

[scout75]

It seems to me as if the cast of Gilligan's Island has been the most vocal about not getting syndication money, which must really be hard on them--considering how long those reruns have been around. IIRC, Dawn Wells and Russell Johnson have both said that no one back then knew TV would be what it is today...

Sad for them, considering that, from what those two cast members have said, Jim Backus pretty much went through his money trying to maintain his remaining health at the end of his life.

The only guy who seemingly knew the power of TV during its infancy was Desi Arnaz, who, in 1951, insisted on retaining ownership of I Love Lucy. Of course, CBS thought the show would be a flop, so they gladly agreed.

[Nancy]

Audrey Meadows (Alice Kramden of THE HONEYMOONERS) did forsee the possibility that her appearance on the Jackie Gleason show might be re-used at a later date.  "Residuals" got written into her contract and needless to say, she made a nice chunk of change out of that deal.  But that kind of foresight was not commonplace which is really unfortunate.

Nancy

It seems to me as if the cast of Gilligan's Island has been the most vocal about not getting syndication money, which must really be hard on them--considering how long those reruns have been around. IIRC, Dawn Wells and Russell Johnson have both said that no one back then knew TV would be what it is today...

Sad for them, considering that, from what those two cast members have said, Jim Backus pretty much went through his money trying to maintain his remaining health at the end of his life.

Seemingly, the only guy who seemingly knew the power of TV during its infancy was Desi Arnaz, who, in 1951, insisted on retaining ownership of I Love Lucy. Of course, CBS thought the show would be a flop, so they gladly agreed.

[Nancy]

Yes, I remember reading that too.  Laurel and Hardy were quite bitter about the fact their movies were shown all over television in the 50s and they were unable to collect a single cent in residuals.

There is a movement for writers in the union to be able to collect money for their work on programs back in the 1960s.  I won't go into all that here, but there is movement in that direction now.

Nancy

I've read of this happening outside of DS.  In Ginger Rogers' autobiography, she wrote that at some point her mother (IIRC) had suggested that Rogers' agent fight for provision for "television" in her contract, but no one had any idea at the time what television really was or could be, so the agent didn't press for it and as a consequence, Rogers never got any residuals when her films were screened on television.  This seems to be fairly typical from what I've read.

There was also a western star whose name I forget--his agent had fought for the TV clause--after his heyday the actor had washed-up for a time, broke, of course.  Was considered a has-been.  When they started airing the old westerns on TV, the actor was one of the few who cleaned up big time.

And didn't Peggy Lee sue Disney when they released The Aristocats on video because she didn't get any recompense?

Luciaphil