Excessively Pessimistic and Profusely Irritating Elizabeth

[Cassandra]

As I note often in Robservations, This Liz-fearing-death storyline annoyed me.  I had hoped that when Cassandra "died," Liz' little curse would die with her, but that wasn't so.  I really wanted them to put an end to the whole silly business, because it certainly didn't present Joan Bennett's best acting chops.  



Love, Robin

I agree Robin,   I had originally thought that Liz would be back to her normal self once Cassandra was gone, but unfortunately the curse that she put Liz under has gotten even worse.  Liz has always been a strong character, even during the whole Jason storyline she managed to keep her cool. To see her behaving like this is really starting to get irritating. Bad choice from the writers.

[Selby_D._Pearson]

Dear Folks, Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. I appreciate each and every well-thought-out comment, especially kuanyin's insightful post. I agree with most of you that the Liz/think-of-death curse was too drawn out.

Yet, I feel that I have to clarify my original purpose for starting this thread. I was attempting to point out that Liz is at the peak of her irrational, irritating behavior and that it was ironic that in trying to bring comfort, she was making Julia's deathbed experience all the more painful (perhaps subconsciously as revenge for all those sedatives that Julia gave her). Not that Liz can't be (or shouldn't be) pitied. But, with all due respect, this is a TV show and I watch it now, as I did then, for escape. I have enough (truly) mentally ill people around me in real life. To be able to vent any pent up real life frustration towards a fictional character (while still loving the character, as I said I did) is a luxury that I feel I can derive from this, the best TV show ever!

I accept most of the blame as, being a newbie, you all are not familiar with my sense of humor. I had hoped that my post would bring out the comedy rather than the commiseration. Thom "got" it, I think.  

Anyhoo, please don't hate me for being newbie-ful!

You have certainly articulated your opinion on Liz's current frame of mind and her "candid" extemporaneous comments quite eloquently and convincingly.   I agree that she could employ a great deal more tact and kindness in her dealings with the seriously afflicted Julia.

 

Dear Bob, Thanks for your thoughts. In my short time here, I have been impressed with your well written, informative and articulate posts. You are obviously an intelligent and, as evidenced by this post, a compassionate person!

However, I'm reminded of something that Fr. John Keating told us back in theology class many years ago: "Ladies and gentlemen, whenever you deal with an exceedingly unpleasant person, just remember, he's more to be pitied than scorned!"  

Yes, but did the good Fr. Keating understand the therapeutic value of a good BITCH-SLAP?!! ?!? Evidently, this was taught in Julia Hoffman's school of higher learning, as evidenced by Julia's slapping of Cassandra (self-therapeutic for Julia, of course) and her soon-to-come slap of an hysterical Joe Haskell (therapeutic, but too late, for Joe).  

Or you could just get 'em drunk.

Yes, Mark. Julia also learned this therapy in her school. Rather than booze, she uses sedatives for speed and convenience.

You guys crack me about poor Liz. But we had one of the best bloopers of all time today..the camera in the Foyer trailing Liz as Julia went out the front door! Hilarious! Was Julia working on a video documentary of Collinwood along with her books on Lang and the Collins family history? And you have to admit that scene of Liz in the graveyard with Tom in the background was creepy..I recall seeing it as a 7 year old when it originally aired and it spooked me. Somehow Tom was a scarier vampire than Barnabas.

Thom! That is a classic blooper! And I like the one that almost immediately follows when Liz finds Julia in the mausoleum and descends the stairs and asks "Whose coffin is this? Is it mine?" When she brushes against one of the mausoleum pillars, it wobbles back and forth.

I don't want to get into spoilers, but, while I don't particularly care for this "buried alive" plot, something that happens afterwards, after this part has run its course, a scene that will eventually conclude the issue is really good and it's almost worth going through all of this in order to have that. Hopefully those who are familiar with it will be able to decipher my vagueness!  And presumably there was no harm to newcomers!!

Josette, I know exactly WHAT you are talking about and I agree, the excitement of THAT scene makes up for most of the irritating scenes that led up to it. A true "best of" moment from DS! Look for it, Perankh!

[Selby_D._Pearson]

Now you're getting all serious on me, Bob.  I was just trying to be facetious.  And are you sure that sentiment originated with the Catholics?  I often hear it spouted by evangelical-types too.

Bj, having been raised in a fundamentalist Christian household, I heard the saying "Love the sinner, but hate the sin" at a very young age. And, while I'm sure that most people who say it mean no harm (in my own "brainwashed years" I often said it myself)  it is just too pat a saying for me. I don't want to open a can of worms here and I mean no insult to anyone's personal beliefs but it has taken me some time to come to the realization that people who say that their beliefs are "true" are essentially saying that everyone else's beliefs are lies. They take aim at those who differ most from themselves. In the meantime, such people hardly ever realize that no two human beings on this planet can totally agree on most things, let alone on all things or even what constitutes truth.  :-/

[Bj]

I don't want to open a can of worms here and I mean no insult to anyone's personal beliefs but it has taken me some time to come to the realization that people who say that their beliefs are "true" are essentially saying that everyone else's beliefs are lies.

Yup, that's been my observation too when it comes to religious-types.

BTW: do you have any comments on Fundamentalists Anonymous?

[Craig_Slocum]

I have pity for Liz, and scorn for the writers.

Me too! I also agree with what ProfStokes said in one of her replies on another thread, that the writers could have done better with this storyline. Liz reacted in a rather quiet manner when she was told that Nicholas Blair is Cassandra's brother. I would have thought there would have been more of a reaction from Liz.

[Cassandra]

Liz reacted in a rather quiet manner when she was told that Nicholas Blair is Cassandra's brother. I would have thought there would have been more of a reaction from Liz.

Same here Cheryl!!  I couldn't figure out why she was so passive about it. I just thought that perhaps the whole shock of seeing Tom in the woods momentarily jarred her memory.  

[WileyS]

The Elizabeth-buried-alive storyline really grates on my nerves too --- though I agree with Josette that the conclusion is worth waiting (fastforwarding?) for!

[Bob_the_Bartender]

Dear Selby_D._ Pearson,

I did not intend to proselytize on behalf of the Catholic church.  Clearly, whatever theology and/or philosophy of life an individual professes to believe in, is his or her own business.  However, I will say that while Americans of the Catholic faith, through their comments, and, more importantly, their actions, have largely expressed compassion and tolerance for people who are not members of the Church, those admirable qualities have, unfortunately, not always been reciprocated, IMHO.

In terms of Mrs. Stoddard's depression/anxiety, it'a a tough situation.  I recall a conversation with a health care professional who remarked that you would not wish that kind of almost paralyzing angst on anyone.  It's a terrible situation for the person suffering from the depression/anxiety, and, as Kuanyin has pointed out, for the family members who have to deal with it on a daily basis.

I feel sympathy for any person who has had to deal with severe depression/anxiety.  In some ways, mental illness is even worse than a physical illness.  At least, with a physical illness, you can "offer it up" ( if I may offer a non-secular Jesuit bit of philosophy.)  People with severe depression/anxiety often have difficulty just making it through the day.

The events of 9/11 have stregthened my feelings of sympathy for people who are deeply troubled emotionally.  Here on the East coast, it's rare that someone does not know another person who lost a loved one or friend in the horrible terrorist events of that day.  People have turned to counseling, medical assistance, and, strangely enough, religious guidance in an effort to cope with their all-too devastating personal and financial losses.

I realize that we're discussing the fictional account of Liz Stoddard's emotional trauma.  And, as a kid watching these episodes, that was the farthest thing from my mind.  However, as an older guy with some life experience, I have compassion for her or any other person going through a particularly difficult period of their life.

Sincerely,

Bob the Bartender  


   

[Raineypark]

Mother of Heaven, Bob.....you've been holding out on us.

All this time you've been hiding behind that VERY witty and imaginative sense of humor.....while all the while being a sensitive, and compassionate guy.

But then, I should have known.....you really CAN tell a Jesuit educated man from across the room!!!!

(...and if I weren't ALREADY married to a former Brooklyn Prep boy.... !)

Rainey

[Bob_the_Bartender]

Dear Raineypark,

I've always thought that I might make the notorious list of American Catholics who were likely to be condemned to the eternal fires of the Underworld; You know, an eclectic list of apostates including George Carlin, Camile Paglia, Frank McCourt, etc.

However, I guess all those years of instruction from the Sisters of Charity, the Marist Brothers and the redoubtable Jesuit priests have inculcated me with some feelings/beliefs that I will  never be able to fully shake.

Sincerely,

Bob the Bartender, a lifelong recovering "mackerel smacker"

[IluvBarnabas]

I have pity for Liz, and scorn for the writers.

Very well put.

The whole Elizabeth's fear of being buried alive did drag on longer than it should have, but I completely sympathize with Elizabeth. My mom sometimes suffers from bouts of depression (because she gets so worn out so easily ever since she had heart surgery and unable to do the things she once could do) and as much as I want to help her, I have learned that sometimes you just got to wait it out. I do feel helpless that I can't do anything to ease her depression, just as Elizabeth's family feel helpless, unable to help Elizabeth overcome her fears.


Elizabeth's fear of being buried alive came and went from time to time as does my mom's moods. Again while the storyline wasn't my favorite, I do appreciate some points of it from a personal point of view.