DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '09 II => Topic started by: Gothick on August 06, 2009, 03:17:28 PM

Title: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Gothick on August 06, 2009, 03:17:28 PM

Whoa!  Is it just me or does Quentin have MAJOR boudoir eyes in today's photograph?

I expected the capture to read:  "Carlotta, you're one red-hot mama, and I've had enough of your coy ways in those batwinged gowns.  Let's find a room and get to WORK, Woman!"

Maybe somebody can re-edit Grayson's scene from END OF THE ROAD with Selby instead of Jack Horner?  *wink*

G.

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Midnite on August 06, 2009, 04:20:52 PM

The NoDS grabs can actually be posted on the Caption This board for captioning on request. [winkb]

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Taeylor Collins on August 06, 2009, 05:58:53 PM

Aww Gothick beat me to it.  I was thinking the same thing. David looks luscious! YUMMERS!

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on August 07, 2009, 02:16:40 AM

Here's the capture for all of Quentin's fans to continue to enjoy:

(http://www.dsboards.com/moviesquoteimages/0805NoDS_0.jpg)

However, given Carlotta's place in the NoDS story, I strongly suspect that no matter how turned on she might have been by Quentin's "boudoir eyes" at that moment, she wouldn't have succumbed to his charms because, well, she believes his charms belong to another - and I don't mean Tracy.  [ghost_grin]  And we all know how, uh, fanatically devoted Carlotta is to that other person.  [ghost_wink]

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Gothick on August 07, 2009, 03:12:00 PM

I wish they had kept the scene that's in Grayson's copy of the shooting script of [spoiler]Carlotta lying on her bed having an orgasm while Quentin and Angelique are making love in the Tower. I think Grayson had a note that Carlotta, being the link that kept Angelique's spirit alive in the present (not something that was ever explained or even touched upon in the existing print apart from one line of dialogue that, as it stands, makes no sense), experienced physically the love that Q & A shared because of her connection to A. I thought that was a very cool concept ... and you know how we Grayson fans are about seeing our lady gettin' her groove on!  I don't know whether Sam Hall did this deliberately, but I am always struck by the fact that Carlotta is a female form of the name Charles, A's original lover in 1810; and Drake refers to dragons, to cthonic underworld energies, to things potent yet unseen...   [/spoiler]

Nothing like it was included in the footage Darren showed at the one Festival presentation I was able to attend, so I'm presuming that either they never shot it, or the footage failed to survive.

G.

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on August 07, 2009, 08:08:40 PM

Is there really a scene like that?! Or is it just her notes detailing how she feels Carlotta would react? I definitely need to check out my copy of her script!  [ghost_grin]

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Gothick on August 07, 2009, 10:17:27 PM

In the script, [spoiler]if memory serves, it simply refers to Carlotta lying on her bed, one hand on her locket (the same locket A had given Sarah which had been passed down from Mother to Daughter and was supposed to contain the spiritual link to A), her face suffused with a blissful expression--Grayson's notes help explicate what is going on, and explain that Carlotta is meant to be the physical link through whom Q and A are able to have their trysts. [/spoiler]

It's an intriguing idea--too bad it was almost completely cut out of the existing edit, because a lot of the story fails to make sense unless you understand the specific nature of Carlotta's role in the "haunting."

G.

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Julia99 on August 07, 2009, 11:59:27 PM

WOW!  I am speechless at the rather provactive idea.... [ghost_cheesy]

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Darren Gross on August 09, 2009, 10:56:17 PM

That material only existed as scribbled notes or ideas in Grayson's draft.  It was never fully written out as additional scenes and never filmed.  Just some wild ideas Grayson thought up.  I asked Sam about it and he said it wasn't meant to be a sexual connection at all, just showing a kind of spiritual connection...  Interesting, though.

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on August 10, 2009, 11:43:10 PM

Some of the notes Grayson wrote in her script regarding subtext are fascinating, what's behind Carlotta's various smiles and other expressions/actions - and particularly how she saw Carlotta as the other side of Angelique, basically Angelique's physical representation in the world with regard to what is happening to Quentin. She does make these things clear with her performance, but it's still interesting to see everything laid out in Grayson's own words. And it's also interesting how Grayson felt Carlotta should have had a book containing a lock of Angelique's hair and that there would have been some mystery about the book until all would have become clear during the big revelation scene in which Carlotta explains everything to Quentin. But obviously DC didn't go for any of that. Truthfully, I think the locket serves much the same purpose so the book/hair wasn't really necessary.

As for the scene where Grayson felt Carlotta should have been intercut reacting to Quentin and Angelique's lovemaking, well, it might be best that DC never went there because I don't know if the audience was really ready for that.  [ghost_cheesy]

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Julia99 on August 13, 2009, 04:06:09 AM

Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on August 10, 2009, 11:43:10 PM

As for the scene where Grayson felt Carlotta should have been intercut reacting to Quentin and Angelique's lovemaking, well, it might be best that DC never went there because I don't know if the audience was really ready for that.  [ghost_cheesy]

The notes in my mind go more toward the training and avant-garde kind of work Grayson did on stage not on film.  And you're right I don't know how the general public would've gone for that--Many retinas are still scared from End of the Road and the places on Grayson where Stacey Keach put his hands.

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Philippe Cordier on August 14, 2009, 03:18:15 AM

Quote from Gothick's "Spoiler," although I don't think that's really necessary, at least at this point in the thread, especially since that's what I'm responding to ... ?

Quote from: Gothick on August 07, 2009, 03:12:00 PM

I don't know whether Sam Hall did this deliberately, but I am always struck by the fact that Carlotta is a female form of the name Charles, A's original lover in 1810; and Drake refers to dragons, to cthonic underworld energies, to things potent yet unseen...

The name "Carlotta" immediately reminded me of "Vertigo." And I wouldn't be surprised if that's what Sam Hall had in mind, when you consider the theme from "Vertigo" of re-animating the dead, with the idea that Madeleine may be the reincarnation of "Carlotta" (even though - spoiler for those who haven't seen "Vertigo") :

[spoiler]That turns out not to be the case[/spoiler]

On the other matter, I would have liked to have seen the intercutting of the scene with Carlotta lightly touching the locket, but could do without the overt sexual expression. (Angie Dickinson did that well in "Dressed to Kill," which I saw recently, but ... )

Interesting comments here about the significance of that locket ... all making for a more interesting thread than one might have anticipated from its teaser of a subject line.  [ghost_shocked]

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on August 14, 2009, 03:43:48 AM

Well, one should never judge simply by the title of any topic because quite often topics with silly titles are actually serious discussions - or at least they evolve into serious discussions - which is why it's always best to check out every post.  [ghost_wink]

And since this hasn't been mentioned yet, it probably wouldn't hurt to point out that the lovemaking scene Grayson felt Carlotta's reaction might have been intercut with is one which might have taken place in the script after [spoiler]Quentin has driven Tracy away after she's come up to the tower looking for him.[/spoiler]Though, of course, as it stands now, the scene of Quentin returning to the tower room doesn't even appear in the current version of NoDS. And actually, the script doesn't even strictly call for it to be a lovemaking scene. (More on that when the scene comes up in the Movies Slideshow.  [ghost_wink]) It was Grayson's notes that wanted to turn it into a lovemaking scene between Quentin and Angelique.

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Gothick on August 14, 2009, 03:02:52 PM

I would love to know the relationship between Grayson's autographed and annotated copy of the script (which bears the title Dark Shadows II) and Dan's shooting script with his notes which was published in the DS Movie Book.  I have had one go at trying to find my photocopy of Grayson's script. and failed, but did pull out the Movie Book and had not realized how many differences there were between the version of the script published there, and the one that circulated in fandom from Grayson.  Presumably, the published version is the "definitive" one, actually used while shooting the movie; there were apparently pages and pages of notes, scribbled over the backs of the typed script sheets, from DC about the shots, set-ups, etc.

What I remember in Dark Shadows II (presumably, a draft anterior to the one published and used at Lyndhurst for the shooting) is not just notes from Grayson about a shot of Carlotta lying on her bed holding the locket with her eyes closed intercut with shots of Q & A going at it, but actual typed scene set-ups from Sam that were part of the script.  When I track down my copy of Grayson's script, I'll report further on this.

The published version of the script does have a scene, noted as having "ad libbed" dialogue, in which Q & A are making love "GP STYLE" according to the typed direction.  I had thought that a fan on this board had an audio tape of a boudoir scene between Q & A that was in an early version of the release print and cut by the time the final print was executed for release.

cheers,

G.

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Julia99 on August 14, 2009, 03:48:02 PM

Pray tell what is "GP STYLE"??

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Gothick on August 14, 2009, 05:05:39 PM

GP was the original form of the rating that the world now knows as PG-13.  Before that it was M, for Mature audiences only (if memory serves).

I expect that it meant that they played the scene with much heaving of the bosom and lips brushing against cheeks and that was about ALL. 

cheers, G.

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Taeylor Collins on August 15, 2009, 01:27:33 AM

I used to have a copy of her script with notes and it was lost in a move! :(  UGH!

Title: Re: Quentin's Boudoir Eyes (August 6 NoDS capture)
Post by: Gothick on August 19, 2009, 03:49:08 PM

Last night, while looking for something else, I did find my copy of "Dark Shadows II" with Grayson's notes.  Really quite fascinating.  MB is correct--the words about intercutting the scene of Quentin and Angelique briefly making out together with a shot of Carlotta's face in some sort of sexually excited state are in Grayson's handwriting.  Regardless of what Sam says now, I do wonder whether including this element more explicitly may have been discussed at the time.  On the other hand, I bear in mind Grayson's remarks in a number of interviews, most memorably in the 1982 "Grayson Gathering" tape, about how much more interesting it is for an actress to decide she "has a secret" about a character and to play certain scenes with "the subtext" of that secret in mind.  (In one of the interviews printed in TWODS after her death, GH gives a whole little discourse on the meaning and significance of "subtext" for an actor.  A fan who became a friend of hers reports somewhere that GH would in some cases write out pages and pages of notes for "subtext" in a given role.  I've often wondered what her notes for Julia's subtext--over the years in the TV show--would have spoken about.)

So, my thought at this point is that by and large, a lot of Grayson's notes about Carlotta's role as the physical link that made it possible for Angelique to act as she did in the world of 1971 were probably her own ideas--her "secret" for the character.

One note that surprised me is that in the scene where Carlotta arrives to find that Quentin has just cut her nephew's face open, Grayson describes Carlotta's reaction as having an element of "animal excitement."  I think that Sam and Dan (and Lela, if she was around) must have vetoed Grayson playing the scene that way...

G.