Author Topic: Discuss - Ep #0201  (Read 1613 times)

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Offline Lydia

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Discuss - Ep #0201
« on: May 01, 2012, 05:18:55 AM »

Offline Lydia

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0201
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 05:22:18 AM »
I don't think Dan Curtis got his money's worth today.  We had eight actors in the episode: Joan Bennett, Alexandra Moltke, Nancy Barrett, Louis Edmonds, David Henesy, David Ford, Mitchell Ryan, and Dennis Patrick.  That's about as many as you ever get on one episode, but the largest number of people we saw together was only four, and Nancy Barrett was there for just one scene.  It would have been far more cost-effective to ditch Moltke, Barrett, Henesy, and Patrick, and spend the whole episode agonizing over Roger's dreadful behavior.  As it was, I never can escape feeling that the show labored for nine months on the Burke's revenge storyline and finally ended up being as bored with it as I was.  But even though I was bored with it, I didn't believe Burke was.  I don't believe that Burke would let Roger off the hook that easily.  And I do believe that when Sam Evans said that Roger had paid $15,000 for his paintings and then just thrown them away, Sam should have shown a little - actually, a lot - more outrage.

Moving right along, we were told today exactly what the secret is that Liz has been hiding for the last nine months.  Another longrunning storyline is being packed up for disposal.  We could have floated along with the skeletons in Liz's and Roger's respective closets for years, but Dark Shadows knows where the money is now, and it's ditching its past, with a good deal more ease than the Collins family ever did.  So now we know that Liz killed Paul Stoddard and that Jason helped her bury him in the locked basement room.  But Liz is better than Roger because she didn't get an innocent man sent to prison for five years for killing Paul Stoddard.

Carolyn's decided she doesn't like Jason.  I'm trying to remember a scene between Carolyn thinking Jason was just fascinating and Carolyn not trusting him, and I can't.  Somebody help me please.  When Carolyn was making a fool of herself over Burke Devlin, there was nothing anybody could say or do to persuade her that Burke was bad news.  But now she's changed her mind about Jason McGuire in the blink of an eye, despite the fact that Jason's more charming than Burke ever dreamed of being.

Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0201
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 07:24:41 AM »
Lydia:  I don't think Carolyn had a thing for Jason though, but just thought he was an entertaining guest, and she enjoyed thinking of some past romance, or something, that her mother might have had with him.

Yes, it's an odd feeling, a bit like betrayal, to go through Burke vs. Roger for months, trying to buy that something earth-shattering is unfolding, only to have it shelved for weeks in favor of a new storyline, with it then hastily tied up in a sloppy bow.  The actors commit to it.   There are good scenes in this resolution:  Maggie and Sam, Roger with Liz.   I'm glad Sproat/Marmorstein were doing this stretch, rather than that Frances Swann, if that was his name, whose writing made him seem like a pale wishy washy Art Wallace substitute, didn't it?

Of course, Roger couldn't get shishkebobbed, because they wanted Louis Edmonds to stay-- more than they wanted Mitch Ryan to stay, I'll guess.   Credit to DS's makers for valuing the character actor over the Dirk Squarejaw character, as excellent and rascally a Dirk Squarejaw as Mitch was....  When they took the fire out of Burke's belly, by downplaying and softening his vendetta, having him make exceptions to it, having him put it on the shelf to deal with Laura... they eroded the character and made him into a redundant goof.  You end up sort of wondering why he's still hanging around, not good for the young firebrand character, or young turk, or whatever you call his type of character!   (I'm mangling old cliches from before I was born, but I love anachronisms and recklessly hate checking my definitions tonight!)

I didn't accept Burke's big-hearted about-face either, of course.   I'd like to know who could... no disrespect meant toward anyone who did buy Burke's shrugging off of his holy vendetta.   I just can't imagine it.   Burke is now part of the Collins conspiracy of silence concerning the stupid, tragic, pointless hit-and-run death of poor Mister.... uh, wait, I'll get it...  (name sounds like that of the Vicki-like Sam portrait subject, and that of the Collins servant on the receipt Vicki found in the Malloy seaweed room David locked Vicki up in).  If asked in town about how his vendetta's going, what's Burke going to say?   Oh that...  I just lost interest!   No, the Collinses didn't pay me off!   Wait, I didn't even get paid off?!  What happened to my business sense?!

You CAN make sense out of it, if you want.   Who'd want to throw Sam in jail after the story about his wife's illness and death?   Burke also almost-sort-of-witnessed (via occasional reports from Vicki and Mrs. J-- kudoes to Sarah J for getting paid for what Vicki was giving away free) the troubles of the Collinses caused by Laura, especially ECS, and how they were suffering because of his former girlfriend, who had duped all of them (creating a we're-all-in-this-together feeling?).   There was no evident "evolution" in Burke's thinking though.  He kept switching his vendetta back on and then off again, like a light switch, through all these events...  rather than seeming gradually to learn things about the people involved, that made him give up on his revenge.

I'm in a strange place from a mold reaction with no end in sight, plus a neurological rewaction to a pain killer, so that's why I'm babbling so much tonight.  A coherent sort of babble, I hope... I'm doing my best.
"One can never go wrong with weapons and drinks as fashion accessories."-- the eminent and clearly quotable Dark Shadows fan and board mod known as Mysterious Benefactor

Offline Janet the Wicked

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0201
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 02:22:19 PM »
Carolyn's decided she doesn't like Jason.  I'm trying to remember a scene between Carolyn thinking Jason was just fascinating and Carolyn not trusting him, and I can't.  Somebody help me please.  When Carolyn was making a fool of herself over Burke Devlin, there was nothing anybody could say or do to persuade her that Burke was bad news.  But now she's changed her mind about Jason McGuire in the blink of an eye, despite the fact that Jason's more charming than Burke ever dreamed of being.

Exactly. The last time we saw Carolyn, she seemed smitten with Jason. She was flirting with him. Now, all of a sudden, she doesn't trust him.
I get a kick out of these guys who think they're so clean, when all the time they're trying to cover up their dirt.

Offline DarkLady

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0201
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2012, 03:17:20 PM »
Please feel better ASAP, Magnus!

Yes, the Great Saga of the Car Accident ends with Roger slinking out of the drawing room because Elizabeth has so many terrible worries of her own. It is kind of a sudden pull-up.

Either her mother's warning has finally sunk in, or Carolyn has finally realized the effect Jason is having on her mother.

The scene of Jason and Elizabeth in the basement was terrific! Now we know why she is so completely at his mercy. His cruelty is so casual. Truly she has a backbone of titanium to endure what she must and still run Collinsport Enterprises.

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0201
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2012, 05:36:02 PM »
Despite the opposing opinions of others on here, I still say the confrontation between Burke, Roger, Sam and Elizabeth and Sam is one of the best on the entire show. I don't find it as unbelievable and out of left field as others on here do.

I think Burke let Roger off the hook more for the sake of Elizabeth, David and Vicki, certainly not for Roger's. Despite their feuding, and his efforts to put her out of business, I think Burke has always had a grudging respect for Elizabeth. He's aware of how close Vicki feels to Elizabeth, and anything that affects the mistress of Collinwood is certainly going to be upsetting to Vicki. And Burke has certainly become aware of how much Roger's attitude toward David has warmed up and that David really does need his father in his life, when all is said and done. Father and son relationship still needs some mending but I think Burke's fondness of David has grown to the point that he realizes no matter how poor a parent Roger has been to him up until the Laura business, the two really need each other.

I think Burke has grown up quite a bit ever since he came back to Collinsport. At this point I think Roger's finally admitting that HE was the one who killed the man, and not Burke, was more than enough to satisfy him. Now had this happened at the beginning of the show I do think Burke would have been ready to drag the Collins name through the mud to get his pound of flesh from Roger.

Jason's charms have always been lost on me, I'm afraid. I won't deny he's a entertaining character, but as I've said earlier, there was something oily in his character from the beginning that told me he was going to be nothing but trouble. Maybe Carolyn picked up on it as well after she saw through her charms. Maybe she learned her lesson from Burke not to be taken in by someone else, no matter how charming and likable he may appear.

If I was Elizabeth at this point, I would seriously consider (a. hiring a hitman to take care of Jason or (b. maybe subtly suggesting to David that next time Jason wants to borrow one of the fancy cars (and I'm sure he arm-twisted Elizabeth on that as well as everything else) David might want to take a look at the bleeder valve to make sure the car is 'just fine' for Jason or (c. [spoiler] grab that poker and whack Jason with it, like she did with Paul, except see to it that I did the job right. [/spoiler] Last option would probably have been the wisest and safest course of action since it wouldn't mean involving anyone else that could pose a problem later on.

Because for all of Jason's cheery and 'charming' personality he proves in here what a vile and thoroughly disgusting snake-in-the-grass he really is.

Offline Janet the Wicked

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0201
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 06:09:15 PM »
If I was Elizabeth at this point, I would seriously consider (a. hiring a hitman to take care of Jason or (b. maybe subtly suggesting to David that next time Jason wants to borrow one of the fancy cars (and I'm sure he arm-twisted Elizabeth on that as well as everything else) David might want to take a look at the bleeder valve to make sure the car is 'just fine' for Jason
Because for all of Jason's cheery and 'charming' personality he proves in here what a vile and thoroughly disgusting snake-in-the-grass he really is.

Just imagine if Matthew had still been around.
I get a kick out of these guys who think they're so clean, when all the time they're trying to cover up their dirt.

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0201
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 07:31:43 PM »
The Robservations caps for this ep have been posted.  [ghost_smiley]

Offline alwaysdavid

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0201
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 12:38:23 AM »
Speaking of Matthew, I kept wondering why Elizabeth hadn't told him there is an old skeleton in the basement would you dig it up and get rid of it for me or at least do it herself  knowing that it would be likely Jason would be back.  I had issues with the sudden willingness for Burke to totally forgive so easily.  I liked that Roger was afraid his sister would send him away again and he said he didn't know where he would go or what he would do.  Burke did have a good line about people like you rot wherever they go. 
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Offline Lydia

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0201
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2012, 08:41:29 AM »
Speaking of Matthew, I kept wondering why Elizabeth hadn't told him there is an old skeleton in the basement would you dig it up and get rid of it for me or at least do it herself  knowing that it would be likely Jason would be back.
I'd think twice about doing that if I were Elizabeth.  Matthew had her on a pedestal, and knowing she was a murderess might be sufficient to knock her off that pedestal.  And Liz believed - foolishly or otherwise - that Jason would never come back.

I think Burke let Roger off the hook more for the sake of Elizabeth, David and Vicki, certainly not for Roger's.
No, I just can't believe that.  In Burke's mind, it was the whole Collins family and Collins name that were responsible for his wrongful conviction.

After Friday's episode I was working on the idea that Burke's newfound certainty that he was innocent had softened his heart, but during today's episode I completely forgot about that angle, and nothing Burke did caused me to remember it.  And anyway, I have a suspicion that Burke did some pretty dirty doings down in South America, so being innocent in the accident ten years would no longer be sufficient to make him innocent altogether.

And that leaves me with nothing.  I keep being reminded of the scene in episode 428 when[spoiler]Joshua says he thinks Nathan wouldn't have the guts to kill Suki[/spoiler]...and I think: "I'm not so sure."  It's the same half-baked psychology.

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0201
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2012, 06:27:14 PM »
But if Elizabeth had explained to Matthew that [spoiler] it was an accident when she supposedly killed Paul, [/spoiler] more than likely Matthew would still have remained devoted to her and would have been more than willing to help her out.

With all due respect to everyone who seem to believe that Burke's change of heart over the Collins family is totally unrealistic and happened overnight....I still say that really is NOT the case here. A lot has happened since Burke returned to Collinsport and up to the time that he finally got Roger to admit he railroaded him into prison. It's been close to a year by now since Burke returned, he's gotten to know and gotten close to Vicki and David, and like I've said even when he got down and dirty with her you could tell Burke still had some kind of admiration for Elizabeth even if he was out to destroy the family. Now Burke has never lost his desire to prove himself innocent, but I do think he eventually came to realize over the next year that punishing the whole family for Roger and Sam's crime against him wouldn't give him back the 5 years he lost...but he still wanted acknowledgement that he was not to blame for the manslaughter charge. That Elizabeth was willing to turn Roger in despite the scandal that it would cause the family made Burke realize once and for all that he needn't any longer lash out at the whole family for what Roger did to him.

Like I've said before, if the incident where he forced Roger to confess happened immediately after Burke return to Collinsport and him not getting so involved with Vicki or so fond of David, and Burke decided to let bygones be bygones then I would agree the scene would be unrealistic. But again, many months have passed and so much has happened, and I think Burke did a lot of maturing and reasoning (other than letting Laura hoodwink him into helping her with David) in that time....that I just don't find his not going to the police as far-fetched as everybody else seems to.


Offline DarkLady

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0201
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2012, 07:43:05 PM »
I agree. In these early story lines the writers went to great pains in developing the characters and their motivations. Burke met Vicki while they were still on the train, and I think he was already interested in her when they arrived at Collinsport. I think we're meant to see her as a sort of unwitting emissary between him and the Collinses. Everything he did to the Collinses in his plan for revenge would affect Vicki as well, and that may have restrained him somewhat.

Even if Elizabeth had told Matthew that [spoiler]she killed Paul deliberately,[/spoiler] I have a feeling Matthew would have remained loyal to her and might have felt more protective of her.