The Tragedy of Barnabas Collins

[Barnabas]

After watching today's episodes, a thought I had in the past came back to me about the tragic choices that Barnabas made to bring Angelique's wrath upon him. Angelique asked Barnabas why he never loved her, and he said because he loved Josette.  It seems to me that he could haved loved Angelique if she were not a servant, and therefore in a different class than Barnabas. Is it possible that Barnabas' classism blinded him to his true feelings where Angelique was concerned? If so, isn't it conceivable that Angelique's feelings of betrayal were justified? Perhaps she knew what Barnabas could not admit to himself and thus felt she had a right to have Barnabas for herself, even if it meant putting a curse on him that would prevent anyone from loving him but herself without being able to live. I think this is really the tragic theme of Barnabas' and Angelique's relationship. Even in today's episode, Barnabas still has not come to any true self-realization about his feelings for Angelique. Does anyone else see this as the root of Barnabas' problems?

[Daphne]

LOL.....wait 'til 1840, if you haven't seen it yet. I think Barnabus, like all aristocrats, was at least partially blinded because Angie was a servant [look how Joshua reacted.....divorced Barnabus from the house, the will, the family, etc....]. And given what happened in Martinique, or knowing that they were at least involved, I think her feelings were justified. Of course, after he went through 200 years of denying it, didn't it ever cross her mind that he changed his mind, or that his feelings had changed...? Maybe she felt they were only momentarily covered up by feelings for Josette.....and he was just too stubborn to admit he still loved her. Of course, Angie could give lessons in stubbornness....  

But I couldn't help but wish that Julia had shot Angie today, though.......  *grumble*

[Dr. Eric Lang]

I'd have to say in all honesty I've seen no indication that Angelique's social status was even a consideration as far as Barnabas was concerned. I think he merely used her as a rebound fling when he thought he would never see his precious Josette again . . . it might just as well have been anyone.

What isn't clear is whether Angelique simply read too much into their affair or if perhaps Barnabas made a few promises he decided later he couldn't keep. It seems likely that Angelique threw herself at Barnabas and was the aggressor in the relationship, but on the other hand we really don't know for certain that Barnabas didn't make the first move. Did he in fact say the "L" word, or indicate in any way they might have a future together?

When Angelique arrived in Collinsport in 1795 she was certainly under the impression that Barnabas would be happy to see her and that their affair would continue. This suggests that Barnabas left her with certain expectations. I don't think you could make a strong case that she was simply being delusional about it - for if he had jilted her before leaving Martinique she would surely have arrived in Collinsport with vengeance on her mind, not loving. She's certainly capable of crazy behavior, but once Barnabas turned her away at the Old House she moved on to revenge and control, she didn't continue to delude herself that he really loved her. This suggests to me that Barnabas kind of "snuck out" of their relationship in Martinique and left her dangling instead of trying to end it with her honestly.

[kuanyin]

Well, their relationship was complex and as has been said, we really don't know much about the beginning of it. When Angie first appeared on the scene, Barney acted truly shocked to see her. As though he didn't know she was a servant to Josette OR the Countess DuPres. Unlikely? Yeah, unless he had never seen her in their service and she seduced him (or he her) apart from that home in Martinique.  Which would explain something, I have always said that if you are madly in love with the young woman of a house, you don't seduce her maid! People here seem to think that was common, but I don't think so. It was not unusual to seduce one in your OWN household, but not when you are wooing someone else and on her turf. Oh sure, Nathan Forbes, would have. But Barney was an idealistic and romantic young man, NOT a conniving womanizer.

According to the Mars/Venus guy and my own personal experience (alas, I came of age in the seventies sexual revolution), if a man does not love you before sex takes place, he never will. There IS such a thing as being too easy and it does not inspire romance. Add to that the fact that Angie is EXTREMELY controlling and strong willed, while Barney likes his women vacuous and meek. They could have made it as a couple IF he could have pulled his head out of his own keister, and if she could have been less murderously maniacal. Since neither was quite willing to do that AT THE SAME TIME, they just didn't have a chance.

[Annie]

Hi,Barnabas.  I too wish that Barnabas could
find soemeone special in his life he just wants
to be happy!!          Love Anne

[Philippe Cordier]

Well, their relationship was complex and as has been said, we really don't know much about the beginning of it. When Angie first appeared on the scene, Barney acted truly shocked to see her. As though he didn't know she was a servant to Josette OR the Countess DuPres.

This was mentioned a while back, and I have to say I'm confused by this point of view. There was a knock on the door of the Collins home, they were vaguely expecting the du Pres retinue's arrival from Martinique, Barnabas went to the door, and the servant Angelique was there.  Barnabas was surprised, but I didn't see any indication that he was so completely shocked that we are to interpret his reaction as meaning that he had no idea that Angelique worked for the du Pres family.  He would have had to have been a heck of a lot more shocked if that was the case, IMO.

[Barnabas]

Hi,Barnabas.  I too wish that Barnabas could
find soemeone special in his life he just wants
to be happy!!          Love Anne

There's the other tragedy! Julia Hoffman has been waiting for him to see that she is that someone special, but he's too wrapped up in the past to see it. Sometimes happiness is right under our nose and we don't even know it.

[Bj]

There's the other tragedy! Julia Hoffman has been waiting for him to see that she is that someone special, but he's too wrapped up in the past to see it. Sometimes happiness is right under our nose and we don't even know it.

I'm sympathetic toward BC.  If I had spent nearly 200 years couped up in a coffin then gotten a second chance, I wouldn't want to settle for second best.  

[Julia99]

I'm sympathetic toward BC.  If I had spent nearly 200 years couped up in a coffin then gotten a second chance, I wouldn't want to settle for second best.  

Ah, hum. . no way is an educated, lovely woman who saves your ass anytime you need it, 2nd best. . .Julia is tops. . B is just dumb too see it at this point (as he is too dumb to see many things on DS-luv him as we do). . .and of course. . it helped fuel the show for 4 years. . this love thing. . . And remember. . **SPOILER** she's about to be hunky Tom Jenning's first choice for dinner.. lol!

[Bj]

Ah, hum. . no way is an educated, lovely woman who saves your ass anytime you need it, 2nd best. . .Julia is tops. . B is just dumb too see it at this point (as he is too dumb to see many things on DS-luv him as we do). . .and of course. . it helped fuel the show for 4 years. . this love thing. . . And remember. . **SPOILER** she's about to be hunky Tom Jenning's first choice for dinner.. lol!

Hmmm...here's a woman who's so obsessed with him that she'll do literally anything to keep him in her sights...in my books this is a SCARY woman who would not serve B-Man well as a mate -- or anyone else for that matter!  How would B. get out of the relationship if he wanted to without incurring her wrath (of a woman scorned)?

No offense, Julia99, but apart from all the romanticizing that goes on here regarding B & J, seriously, this is not a match made in heaven  

[Julia99]

No offense, Julia99, but apart from all the romanticizing that goes on here regarding B & J, seriously, this is not a match made in heaven  

Not to quibble but I think Angelique is much more patholigical than Julia.  .Julia never forces B's hand --and honestly, he works just as hard to keep Julia in his sight too (watch in a few days when Tom, the first among many, abuses Julia. .B is not a happy man about it al all, rather frightened by the prospect of losing her. . .)  But its just a fiction and most fictional relationships are not "healthy" hence the "drama" and why we watch. . .

[Luciaphile]

I think the tragedy of Barnabas Collins is that he doesn't know what he wants, which may or not be a good thing.

The status thing . . . I think what people forget is that it's not like he could have had a real relationship with Angelique.  She was a maid.  In someone else's house.  With probably a huge array of duties that would not have brought her into contact with him.  And when they did get together, I think the only logical things that could have happened were sex and a lot of sweet nothings, which while fun is really not a lot on which to build much of a relationship.

The perennial problem that both Angelique and Barnabas face is that they invest others and incidents with qualities that they don't possess or that weren't there.  They see things as they think they ought to be.  Or as they want them to be.

The women that Barnabas pursues tend to be blank slates really.  They're young or inexperienced (or in one notable case, comatose).  So, I'm going to go with Chris_2 here.  Angelique was there.  She was pretty.  She was available.  He was on the rebound.  Because he's incapable of just having sex and having done with it, he probably told her all sorts of things, poetic things, that perhaps she'd never heard before (which is possible, there were cattle treated better than domestics).  The character of Angelique clearly has no self-esteem.  

What Barnabas seems to want is to be a romantic hero in the middle of a large drama.  Frankly, I found Julia's idea of just killing Cassandra pretty abhorrent as it came from someone who should know better, but it's an intensely practical suggestion.  Barnabas is never about practicality.  He doesn't want the sturm and drang to end.  In 1897, he has a specific agenda.  In like the first week, there is resolution.  He can go back and that should be that, but he continues to stay and mucks up things so much that it seems to get worse.  

Of course, all this happens because it's a show and there needs to be continued turmoil, but it works because Barnabas is who he is.  

Rambling now, so I'll stop.

Luciaphil

[Angelique_s_Sis]

 Barnabas was obsessed with Josette like Angelique was obsessed with him.  Living in the past can only hurt you in the end.   Julia's devotion to him without him not even noticing the truth.  

Love is blind....and a woman's scorn is deadly.

[Daphne]

if a man does not love you before sex takes place, he never will.

Quoteth my old theatre teacher, Fenley ~ "Some guys give up love for sex; some girls give up sex for love."

*le sigh*

[Bj]

According to the Mars/Venus guy and my own personal experience (alas, I came of age in the seventies sexual revolution), if a man does not love you before sex takes place, he never will.

LOL!  There's someone with the credentials you should be listening to!