DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '06 II => Topic started by: Professor Stokes on August 20, 2006, 06:46:08 PM
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Hello all. Nice place you have here. I'm new to your fine forum and I'm finding my way around.
I wanted to post a topic to introduce myself, and to reflect on some of my own observations and questions about Dark Shadows.
Firstly, my real name is Kevin and I am the founder and site administrator of my own discussion forum, The Conversation Pit. We've been going for 18 months, reside on a dedicated server (phpBB2 forum, Apache/Linux server), and recently passed our 140,000 post milestone. My wife Pam is a forum admin there and handles trivia, history and word games, as well as being co-founder.
Secondly,, I watched DS when it aired back in the '60s. There were two things I would try to do after school - watch Dark Shadows, and watch The Three Stooges. DS came on at 3:30 in the Chicago area, and the stooges at 4. I never before, or since, got hooked on a soap opera. They aren't my cup of tea, generally. But Dark Shadows was such a superb achievement, and thoroughly addicting, I made an exception. Though it was long before I met her, my wife was a rabid DS fan.
Thirdly, the past few years Pam and I have renewed our interest in the show, with the availability of recorded episodes. We started out ordering VHS tapes through Columbia House, and after that eventually proved far too expensive, and it seemed to take forever ($18/tape, which held 5 episodes ...one tape sent every 2 weeks), we switched to using Netflix DVD rental to get our fix. Each DVD holds 10 episodes and we are members of the 6-at-a-time plan. We can finally watch DS every night!
What a joy to see that first episode with Vicky on the train heading for Collinwood! It immediately rekindled all the charm and attraction the original over-the-air show had, but with no commercial adverts!
Currently we are at the point in the show when they're in 1897, [spoiler]Count Petofi has switched bodies with Quentin, and Evan has just failed in his attempt to reverse the transfer using his black ceremony. Angelique has become an almost "good guy", and last night one of the episodes we watched had her being caught by Quentin/Petofi as she tried freeing the chains on Barnabas' coffin in the cave near Widow's Hill.[/spoiler] Fantastic stuff ...and I can't wait until tonight! We allow ourselves only 5 episodes/evening, else Netflix wouldn't be able to keep up.
I have a few questions for those DS sages here.
How did Magda come back to life? She was in recent episodes, but I recall her being killed off 20 or 30 episodes prior to this. Was it an oversight on Dan's part?
Has Jonathan Frid ever gone through a complete episode without flubbing at least one line??? ;D
Will Julia be able to ever speak a whole sentence without pausing two or three times?
My favorite characters, in order, and why:
Barnabas - He's the man. He single-handedly saved the show from the axe during the early days. He's the reluctant vampire, an unwilling victim of Angelique's curse over that whole nasty Josette business. Not a man to mess with - intelligent and refined, yet able to unleash incredible damage when necessary. How can you NOT like Barnabas? ::)
Professor Stokes - Intelligence personified. Cultured, open-minded, yet forceful when the situation demands. A gentleman, but one with a few tricks up his sleeve.
Julia - Gritty, gutsy Dr. Hoffman. She's Barnabas' only friend, confidante and protector there for a while. Along with Barnabas and Elizabeth, she is the heart and soul of the show.
Reverend Trask - Brilliant. <In best Chandler Bing voice> "Could Jerry Lacy LOOK more like Bogey?" :D Apparently Woody Allen didn't think so when he cast him in "Play It Again, Sam" ;) I love the self-righteousness of the character. He is so convincing, and when cornered, spouts scripture or blames it on the almighty. All the while pursuing Amanda Harris. You gotta love the guy!!
Elizabeth - The foundation of the family. The stability, moral compass and keeper of the flame for the Collins family. Her character played by a truly classy and talented lady in Joan Bennett.
Maggie - Pretty and smart. And she has the nicest legs of the entire cast ;)
Angelique - Prettiest face on the show (yes, even including Amanda. Gorgeous eyes, excellent acting by a relative acting newcomer Lara Parker. Yet extremely dangerous and exotic.
Quentin - Bad guy, then good guy, then bad guy. He talks too much, chases women, and needs to grow up a bit more. But you gotta love the character. He accounted for the second revival for the show just when it needed it.
Roger - Staid, conservative Roger. The backbone for the Collins family. But he needs to smile once in a while!
Carolyn - A '60s kinda girl. Nancy Barrett is an excellent actress, especially when she played the dull-witted Millicent bimbo character.
My least-favorite characters, in order, and the reasons why:
Nicholas Blair - Evil ...pure evil. I was glad when [spoiler]satan torched him on Widow's Hill.[/spoiler]
Willie/Carl - Whiney, sniveling Willie. Add ten gallons of caffeinated coffee to Willie, and you have Carl. Spineless waste of skin!
Adam - Never learned to control his temper. He had no patience. Of course, if you were thrown together from spare parts, you might be cranky too!
Eve - Cast iron nasty woman. Not a nice bone in her body. Belonged with evil Nicholas.
Characters that were just OK:
Vicky - I don't know. I was never crazy about Vicky. I realize she was the original basis for the show, but .... Maybe it was that whole Klaus Von Bulow business.
David - Lying little brat. Good acting.
Amy - Lying little brat. Also good acting for someone so young.
Sam Evans - The character could have been so much more dynamic. A pity.
Beth - Her neck is just a bit too long, and her chin just a tad too pointy. I keep looking at those things instead of concentrating on the dialog.
We're looking forward to Kate Jackson's appearance on the show, and we're wondering when the time shift back to 1969 will happen. It seems they've been in 1897 far longer than when Vicky traveled back to 1795 after the seance. We're ready to see the jump again. And ....I MUST find out if Barnabas is still alive in the future. He can't be dead ...he just can't :o
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A very warm welcome to you, Professor Stokes! :) :)
I really enjoyed reading your observations about DS.
And I'm with you, Barnabas is soooo great!! He's simply the best!!! :) ;D 8)
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Welcome, Kevin! [wave] It's wonderful that you've jumped right in.
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Welcome Kevin. Glad to have you. About Barnabas...you were absolutely right. You're right, he is 'the man'. Again, welcome.
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Thanks for the warm welcome ;)
I see someone put the spoilers in SPOILER tags. Oops. Sorry about that. I'm a phpBB man myself and wasn't aware SMF had spoilers. Sorry. I hope I didn't spoil it for anyone ... :-[ It won't happen again.
I found out that putting it in [ spoiler]text[ /spoiler] tags works, like in phpBB 8)
Yeah, Barnabas is the man ...the honcho ...the big dog ......the big Kahuna ....the ... :o...well, you get the idea :D
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Welcome, Stokes.
Whining, sniveling Willie??? I beg your pardon, sir. Had it not been for Willie, I doubt there would have been much soap to opera about. Wilie is an integeral part of the series and a joy to watch. In the past two weeks that co-workers have asked about my trek to the Fest in NY, the one character they recall after Barnabas is Willie. Sadly to say, there aren't many folks where I work that rememeber Quentin or Magda or Professor Stokes. Barnabas and Willie!
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Welcome, Stokes.
Whining, sniveling Willie??? I beg your pardon, sir. Had it not been for Willie, I doubt there would have been much soap to opera about. Wilie is an integeral part of the series and a joy to watch. In the past two weeks that co-workers have asked about my trek to the Fest in NY, the one character they recall after Barnabas is Willie. Sadly to say, there aren't many folks where I work that rememeber Quentin or Magda or Professor Stokes. Barnabas and Willie!
:D Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. Just my opinion. And you know what they say about those ..... :)
The Carl character is more of a mamby pamby than Willie. It's a tribute to John Karlen's acting abilities.
It's true, Willie showed some courage when attending to Barnabas' needs, but he was an indecisive, cowardly pawn for the most part. Barnabas had to make all the decisions. But there's a reason he was that way - he was bitten by Barnabas, and he lost his free will as a result.
Back when the show was running, Karlen got accolades for his acting, and he was a perennial fan favorite. This is true. But that doesn't make me like the character any more. I cringe whenever I see Willie or Carl enter the scene :D
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Yeah, Barnabas is the man ...the honcho ...the big dog ......the big Kahuna ....the ... :o...well, you get the idea :D
Barnabas is awesome, the main attraction, superb, and on and on and...LOL. Go, Barnabas! ;D :)
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BTW, my wife Pam just registered. Her username is "Bugsie" ;)
My username on our own forum is "Capmaster", in case anyone visits there :)
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How did Magda come back to life? She was in recent episodes, but I recall her being killed off 20 or 30 episodes prior to this. Was it an oversight on Dan's part?
Hi Stokes, welcome! Love your avatar btw...To answer your question about Magda [spoiler]she didn't die. She came close a couple times, w/King Johnny and Istvan, and all her smart-ass remarks to Barnabas, LOL! But she was alive and well at the end of 1897. [/spoiler] ;)
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LOL!! Just found out that JF looks at this board once a month or so so I imagine the ego will be sailing when he sees these comments! ;D
Nancy
Yeah, Barnabas is the man ...the honcho ...the big dog ......the big Kahuna ....the ... :o...well, you get the idea :D
Barnabas is awesome, the main attraction, superb, and on and on and...LOL. Go, Barnabas! ;D :)
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Welcome aboard, Professor, though I could've sworn there was another Prof. Stokes on this board!! About Magda: the reason why she was gone for so long was because Grayson left for a few weeks to do a movie with Michael Douglas called Adam at 6 AM, and to make another DS connection, her husband in the film was played by "Sheriff Patterson" himself, Dana Elcar! BTW, it was produced by Steve McQueen's company which begs the question- did he watch DS?
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Welcome aboard, Professor, though I could've sworn there was another Prof. Stokes on this board!! About Magda: the reason why she was gone for so long was because Grayson left for a few weeks to do a movie with Michael Douglas called Adam at 6 AM, and to make another DS connection, her husband in the film was played by "Sheriff Patterson" himself, Dana Elcar! BTW, it was produced by Steve McQueen's company which begs the question- did he watch DS?
Ahhh, thanks Charles! And thanks BuzzH! I must have made an assumption about Magda ::)
There is a "ProfStokes" here already. I didn't realize it until after I had already registered. Maybe I should change my handle to avoid confusion?
LOL!! Just found out that JF looks at this board once a month or so so I imagine the ego will be sailing when he sees these comments!
:o
How cool is that? :D It's well-deserved. And .....I was just kidding about flubbing your lines, ole Barney-baby. Juuuuust kidding .... :o
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LOL!! Just found out that JF looks at this board once a month or so so I imagine the ego will be sailing when he sees these comments! ;D
Are you serious, Nancy? that is so great!!!
Well, he certainly deserves all the wonderful praise he gets!
Barnabas is wonderful! :) :)
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There is a "ProfStokes" here already. I didn't realize it until after I had already registered. Maybe I should change my handle to avoid confusion?
It's not necessary, Professor. Just check out all the username variations of Barnabas. Your name is varied enough for readers to (I think) easily tell you apart, your posting levels are quite different-- ProfStokes is a Senior poster, and her avatar looks nothing like yours anyway. ;)
Regarding spoiler warnings, in addition to the tags there's also a message icon, all courtesy of our webmaster, MysteriousB. :D
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Regarding spoiler warnings, in addition to the tags there's also a message icon, all courtesy of our webmaste, MysteriousB. :D
Thanks ;) I see the "Spoiler Alert" icon now. I'll be careful not to ruin it for anyone.
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Are you serious, Nancy? that is so great!!!
Yes, he does the periodic review of DS websites. Curiousity more than anything. He would probably deny it if you asked him though, lol. He even looks at the David Selby site Criseyde does. He has family members who regularly view the sites and have watched the show. They are about the average age here. 8)
Professor Stokes - welcome to the board! I don't believe the flub remark will/would bother JF. He believes the reason most fans watch DS is to make fun of it and the acting, etc. It's the impression he has gotten from reading DS websites and other things. :P So no worry about offending whenever he reads such stuff here or elsewhere.
Nancy
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Whining, sniveling Willie??? I beg your pardon, sir. Had it not been for Willie, I doubt there would have been much soap to opera about. Wilie is an integeral part of the series and a joy to watch. In the past two weeks that co-workers have asked about my trek to the Fest in NY, the one character they recall after Barnabas is Willie. Sadly to say, there aren't many folks where I work that rememeber Quentin or Magda or Professor Stokes. Barnabas and Willie!
Janet, I hear Willie had a thing about Wicked Wednesdays. Care to comment on that? ;D
Nancy
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He believes the reason most fans watch DS is to make fun of it and the acting, etc. It's the impression he has gotten from reading DS websites and other things. :P So no worry about offending whenever he reads such stuff here or elsewhere.
I know there were a great many forgotten lines and so forth, but I honestly don't watch Dark Shadows to poke fun at the actors. I watch it because there is some excellent acting, and it's a unique show with some cool stories.
I think it would be very difficult to have to remember lines on a daily basis, and to add to that stress, the fact that there was no editing, so they couldn't go back and redo something they didn't like. IMHO, I consider it very brave of the actors to do it, then to have it on television for all to see. I really admire them for that. 8)
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Professor Stokes - welcome to the board! I don't believe the flub remark will/would bother JF. He believes the reason most fans watch DS is to make fun of it and the acting, etc. It's the impression he has gotten from reading DS websites and other things. :P So no worry about offending whenever he reads such stuff here or elsewhere.
Thank you for the warm welcome, Nancy!
I hope JF doesn't think most people watch the show to make fun of it :o >:( I certainly don't, and I believe anyone who loves the show as we do would defend it against such blasphemy. I think the flubbed lines is a reminder to us and everyone else that this show was "taped live" with no do-overs or outtakes. Let some of the modern "stars" try that and see how they'd do :o I think they'd run screaming from the studio. But our beloved DS stars endured grueling schedules, with the pressure of "one chance is all you get", and I'm constantly amazed they did as well as they did. What a cast!!! [headbang]
I think the occasional flubbed line adds to its charm, and adds a human element that you just don't get with the CGI-enhanced, One-hour Martinized, cold and clinical, technically flawless soulless productions we see nowadays. Dark Shadows was more like a live play, and I'd take it in a heartbeat over the new stuff ;)
So Jonathan ...if you read this ....you can miss a line any time, my friend. There will never again be anyone like you [vampy] [9050]
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I hope JF doesn't think most people watch the show to make fun of it :o >:( I certainly don't, and I believe anyone who loves the show as we do would defend it against such blasphemy. [vampy] [9050]
I think fans see DS as campy and enjoy it for the bloopers. This isn't exacty news nor is it a criticism. That's the primary attraction for a lot of fans. He definitely does see this as the primary draw for most DS fans too and has said as much in interviews and alluded to this in the Introduction he wrote for the festival publication Introduction of Barnabas. He recalls standing outside the video room listening to people laugh at stuff and him messing up. If I can find the intro I will post with permission from the author (JF).
If you haven't already, check out JF's website at http://www.jonathanfrid.com. He has added some recent readings to the audio gallery and plans on doing more at some point.
Again, welcome.
Nancy
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Yes, yes, yes,! I couldn't have said it any better myself, Professor Stokes!
The missed lines definitely gave the show a human quality that I really enjoy! It's so much better than most of the stuff on television now.
I'll take Dark Shadows over any show running today!
So here's to Dark Shadows, and all the actors and people who made it the show we know and love! :-* :)
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Ah, another Stokes fan! Excellent. Welcome aboard, Professor Stokes!
ProfStokes
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Thanks for the info, Nancy. That is a bit disturbing, but it appears it is also reality.
The episode DVDs we're currently receiving all include a bonus interview at the end. Sometimes it's someone like the assistant stage director, or someone like that, which we skip. But it's almost always Dan or a cast member. David Selby has done numerous inverviews, as has Jonathan Frid, Louis Edmonds, and many others. From what I gather from their recollections, they were most serious at the time the show was being aired. Except Karlen ...he was always goofing around ;D
I think it does a disservice to the dedication of the cast to poke fun of the mistakes that are inevitable in such a setting. I applaud Jonathan Frid's graceful and gentlemanly way of accepting it. That he handled it so well doesn't surprise me, being the class act he has always been.
Yes, yes, yes,! I couldn't have said it any better myself, Professor Stokes!
The missed lines definitely gave the show a human quality that I really enjoy! It's so much better than most of the stuff on television now.
I'll take Dark Shadows over any show running today!
So here's to Dark Shadows, and all the actors and people who made it the show we know and love
Hear hear!! Thanks Sunny! :)
Ah, another Stokes fan! Excellent. Welcome aboard, Professor Stokes!
Why thank you, professor ;D
In love the Professor Stokes character. He was so smart and so well-prepared for all the last-minute supernatural help that was demanded of him. With the amulet, and the herbs ....brilliant! If I were in a battle with a witch or a warlock, who do you think I would call first? ;D
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I think it does a disservice to the dedication of the cast to poke fun of the mistakes that are inevitable in such a setting. I applaud Jonathan Frid's graceful and gentlemanly way of accepting it. That he handled it so well doesn't surprise me, being the class act he has always been.
Here, here, Professor Stokes! You say the things I'm thinking but can't seem to put in to writing! :) Okay, now I'll keep quiet on the subject! LOL! ;D
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Janet, I hear Willie had a thing about Wicked Wednesdays. Care to comment on that? ;D
Wicked Wednesdays?? You talking 'bout the time Willie short-sheeted Missus Johnson's bed?
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Yes, Janet I am. Can't wait to see you next week you crazy thing.
nancy
Wicked Wednesdays?? You talking 'bout the time Willie short-sheeted Missus Johnson's bed?
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LOL!! Just found out that JF looks at this board once a month or so so I imagine the ego will be sailing when he sees these comments! ;D
Are you serious, Nancy? that is so great!!!
Well, he certainly deserves all the wonderful praise he gets!
Barnabas is wonderful! :) :)
and since it was said he was a hunk and had 6 pack abs recently (from a great old photo)He is still THE MAN ( he does still look great!) :-*
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oh sorry WELCOME PROFESSOR STOKES aka Kevin :)
jennifer
i see you haven't met raineypark (a Willie lover) ;D and you havent't met the DON fan club yet ;D
looking foward to your posts :)
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Barnabas is ... the main attraction
For many, certainly - but not for all of us. As I've posted many times before (so I'll keep this one brief ;)), there are also fans who love the entire package that is DS - and as shocking as it may be to some, not only can we actually enjoy all the various plots that don't feature Barnabas, we can even imagine a DS that could have continued well past the point that Barnabas would have been written out. Many soaps have featured central characters on a par with the popularity of Barnabas and they've all managed to survive well past those characters' departures. Yes, the shows have often become very different from what they were when those characters were a part of them - but they have endured - and in most cases, even thrived afterward...
And welcome aboard, Professor Stokes! :)
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"Could Jerry Lacy LOOK more like Bogey?"
I really think he could. Or else, how could it happen that I just don't like Humphrey Bogart, but I love Jerry Lacy?
Welcome to the Forum, by the way.
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Hi Professor Stokes! Welcome to the DS Forums!
- Penny Dreadful
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For many, certainly - but not for all of us. As I've posted many times before (so I'll keep this one brief ;)), there are also fans who love the entire package that is DS - and as shocking as it may be to some, not only can we actually enjoy all the various plots that don't feature Barnabas, we can even imagine a DS that could have continued well past the point that Barnabas would have been written out. Many soaps have featured central characters on a par with the popularity of Barnabas and they've all managed to survive well past those characters' departures. Yes, the shows have often become very different from what they were when those characters were a part of them - but they have endured - and in most cases, even thrived afterward...
And welcome aboard, Professor Stokes! :)
Thank you, mister admin [salute] (I sent you a PM, by the way).
In all fairness to the show, yes, it probably could have gone on without Barnabas. But we'll never know. It also could have fallen flat without him, never achieving the lofty status that it did ...doomed for cancellation. Who knows? But he stayed on the show, even during the time [spoiler]he was cured and wasn't biting anyone. You could say that was the period of his DS career when it was ...<ahem> ..."a fangless job" ;)[/spoiler]
(That pun wasn't my fault - I was inspired by your calculus sig [lghy])
Wow. Thanks again for all the warm welcomes! ;D What a great forum! [hello]
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Hi Professor Stokes
I have to agree with MB. However, I watched the show back in the 60s and loved Barnabas. The days he wasn't on me and my friends would bail and go outside to play. Rewatching the show as an adult, I can appreciate the other characters. The members of the board discuss characters they like making me see the characters in a new light. I now notice relationships more between Elizabeth and Roger, Barnabas and Willie, etc. Thats why this board in so fascinating. Cousins will point out subtle things I may have missed which makes the show that much more fun to watch again and again.
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There are much more subtle nuances in the character development that we could have missed as kids, in fact probably did. I was like you - I felt cheated if Barnabas wasn't on that day. At the time it was like watching Bewitched without Samantha >:(
I particularly like how the relationship between Barnabas and Julia has gradually developed. Remember early on they were mortal enemies - Julia only cooperated because she had to, and for the professional interest.
Which brings me to this question - How did Julia find the time to run Wincliff? She was always at Collinwood or the old house ;D
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I particularly like how the relationship between Barnabas and Julia has gradually developed. Remember early on they were mortal enemies - Julia only cooperated because she had to, and for the professional interest.
Which brings me to this question - How did Julia find the time to run Wincliff? She was always at Collinwood or the old house ;D
I too enjoyed the way Barnabas and Julia grew gradually closer as the series progressed.
And as to your question, I have often wondered the same thing.
Perhaps she used the time traveling staircase to go back a day, do her work at Windcliff, then return to the present. ;D
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I particularly like how the relationship between Barnabas and Julia has gradually developed. Remember early on they were mortal enemies - Julia only cooperated because she had to, and for the professional interest.
Which brings me to this question - How did Julia find the time to run Wincliff? She was always at Collinwood or the old house ;D
I too enjoyed the way Barnabas and Julia grew gradually closer as the series progressed.
And as to your question, I have often wondered the same thing.
Perhaps she used the time traveling staircase to go back a day, do her work at Windcliff, then return to the present. ;D
[lghy] That Julia was crafty ;)
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This is likely my farewell post, and Bugsie's too. Such a short time ...... :'(
Unfortunately, the way the internet is nowadays, there are spammers who flood forums with junk, trying to hawk their wares forcefully. To defend against it, places like DSF have anti-flood timers in place that prevent posts too soon after the previous post. The timer prevents repeat posts from the same IP address. Well, we have DSL at home, and the whole household (5 PCs, wireless router and a common DSL line) has the same IP which is dynamically assigned by the ISP. There is no way to change that. My only other option would be to use dialup :o
That means that it is next to impossible for Bugsie and I to participate here because we likely would be on at the same time at many times during the day. Having that constant error message would take all the joy out of it. I've experienced it several times already.
It's a shame because we would probably have shot to the top of your posting ranks within a year because I personally have 28,000 posts on my forum, and Pam has about 24,000 :o We are no strangers to actively posting away, and we both expected to be very active here. But with that kind of anticipated activity from our IP, there's no way we could try to maneuver our posting here so as to avoid the timer, by assigning "your time to post" and "my time to post" :( It would be too frustrating for us. We have discussed it and we both agree.
While I have the anti-flood timers disabled on my own forum, and have had no trouble since all members must be activated by the admin before posting, I'm sure there are good reasons for having such a limitation here. I've already communicated my questions and feelings about this to Midnite, and Midnite has replied that this is an unavoidable feature that can't be disabled.
So, adios Dark Shadows Forums. It's been nice :)
I'll stop in a couple more times later to check PMs, in case Midnite finds a solution. I've got my fingers crossed :)
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I think fans see DS as campy and enjoy it for the bloopers. This isn't exacty news nor is it a criticism.
If that is true, it is unfortunate and something of a slap in the face to the actors and people behind the scenes who worked hard to create a serious supernatural series.
I find it hard to believe that most fans are into the show for laughs. I doubt the show has survived as long as it has because people get off on bloopers. I think the more likely scenario is the old adage that the most negative voices are generally the loudest. I think most DS fans watch it for the good writing, acting and atmosphere and forgive the bloopers, not delight in them. It seems in the 80s DS had this reputation amongst uninformed journalists for being "campy." Lately, this notion has started to change a bit, and "horror/fantasy" magazines and websites in particular seem to be giving DS the place it deserves as a groundbreaking and legendary show in the genre DESPITE the mistakes. People who make fun of the actors should try memorizing pages of lengthy monologues overnight and then recite those lines verbatim the next day in front of a camera. They can then repeat this 5 times a week.
If you wish, do tell Jonathan there are a lot of fans who don't think DS is a camp-fest and who appreciate the work the actors and crew put into creating a serious dark fantasy show.
-Penny
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While I have the anti-flood timers disabled on my own forum, and have had no trouble since all members must be activated by the admin before posting, I'm sure there are good reasons for having such a limitation here.
A clarification-- the Forums have never been flooded by a member. Flooding is simply the addition of a large volume of data.
I'm sorry that our preventive method thwarts your enjoyment of the Forums, but I honestly don't anticipate that MB or I will have a change of heart about allowing the boards to become vulnerable to this type of attack again. You're quite fortunate to not have had to deal with it on your own site, and I hope that will continue to be the case for you. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you and Bugsie.
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I think fans see DS as campy and enjoy it for the bloopers. This isn't exacty news nor is it a criticism.
If that is true, it is unfortunate and something of a slap in the face to the actors and people behind the scenes who worked hard to create a serious supernatural series.
I'm soooo with you. I was VERY shocked and a bit saddened by the level of interest in DS bloopers. Yeau, some are funny but I'm very tolerant of them and just grateful that the performers were still able to convey first class performances enough that I can still enjoy some superb gothic entertainment.
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Yes, Janet I am. Can't wait to see you next week you crazy thing.Wicked Wednesdays?? You talking 'bout the time Willie short-sheeted Missus Johnson's bed?
I will and forever be...wicked. I am looking forward to sharing a drink with you, Kerz. Tell the old man I love him.
Janet
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I think most DS fans watch it for the good writing, acting and atmosphere and forgive the bloopers, not delight in them.
That's most certainly the way I feel.
It seems in the 80s DS had this reputation amongst uninformed journalists for being "campy." Lately, this notion has started to change a bit, and "horror/fantasy" magazines and websites in particular seem to be giving DS the place it deserves as a groundbreaking and legendary show in the genre DESPITE the mistakes.
It's been amazing how much respect DS has been receiving in print and on the Web in the past three years. Not amazing because DS doesn't deserve it - it truly does - but because, as you've said, the '80s and even into the '90s all we invariably read in nearly every article about DS was how "campy" it was. And what was more unfortunate than that was how the writers of said articles backed them up with passages from some of the PomPress books that, shall we be kind in saying, made it seem as if things actually happened on the show that never actually did (like, for one, the story about Terry Crawford supposedly [spoiler]bouncing off a matress and back into frame during Beth's fall from Widows' Hill[/spoiler]as if it actually went out over the air that way, which, as any DS fan who has seen the episode in question knows, it clearly did not >:(). But then, it's certainly not the complete fault of the writers who trusted the info in the PomPress books. After all, so far as they were concerned, they most likely thought they could rely on the PomPress books because they were unaware of the, shall we say, certain inaccuracies and misconceptions the books all too sadly contain, often times in chapters written by the DS actors themselves. ::)
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Back when the show was running, Karlen got accolades for his acting, and he was a perennial fan favorite. This is true. But that doesn't make me like the character any more. I cringe whenever I see Willie or Carl enter the scene :D
Oh, Professor! Say it aint so! Willie is da man after Barny. I am sad that Karlen isn't in the series more. He always makes things fun and yes he is over cafinated that is why we love him.
If you think of the actual character of Carl you can like him more. I like to try to think what makes the characters the way they are and what it is that you dont view on the screen. Carl is THE ONLY GOOD, INHERANTLY-SP?- GOOD, person on the show except for Liz. All the others are really bad.
Carl is sick and scared emotionally because he is in a family of very evil people. Judith is cold. Q is self centered and cares nothing for others not even Beth. Edward is cold and has no moral values though he pretends to. They ALL pretend to. They ain't no better than Trask in that regard.
At any rate, can you imagine living with those creeps? The psychological abuse? He's nutty and jumpy because he doesn't know who is really good or bad and he is afraid.
[spoiler]Poor Carl! Barny should suffer forever for killing him. He could have easily bit him or like he did with that child that saw him messing with Charity.[/spoiler]
And Willie...I just love Willie. The way he trembles you just gotta wonder what he REALLY knows. And I dont want to start any arguments nor am I implying that I am a person who likes or reads slash fiction but there is a real homoerotic thing in Barn-Will's relationship.
And Beth too is the only other ACTUALLY GOOD person on the show. I love Beth. I think she is pretty even though at first her appearance is unusual but we all cannot, THANKFULLY, be plastic dolls all basicly the same.
;D
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If that is true, it is unfortunate and something of a slap in the face to the actors and people behind the scenes who worked hard to create a serious supernatural series.
I must be reading things wrong if there is any doubt that most people (including fans) mention the DS mistakes, bloopers and clumsy acting before anything positive is mentioned. If you look at synposis about the series you will see the word "campy" and mention of forgotten lines. That's the mainstream media.
While it is not something that eats at me, even in this very forum it's evident many look for the bloopers and other screwups. That's not a bad thing if that's what entertains the viewer but I find it difficult to understand the notion that's not what most DS fans enjoy and remember about the series. It is. Just reading this forum alone substantiates this. I'm not saying everyone holds the same view but I believe the one I am referring to is more prevalent than maybe some are willing to admit. The first words out of people's mouths about Barnabas or Jonathan Frid is how much he screwed up his lines, not what he did with the character. The first words out of the mouths of many fans I've met is how the sets falling apart and the many mistakes caught on camera. There's nothing wrong with that if that is what entertains the viewer. It's all there for entertainment.
But please don't tell me most fans do not spend more time discussing the mistakes, blown lines and clumsy acting than anything else. It's just not true from what I've seen here and elsewhere. (I hope I am not coming off cranky because I'm not; just stating what I believe to be a fact. There is nothing wrong with admitting this is the case.)
If you wish, do tell Jonathan there are a lot of fans who don't think DS is a camp-fest and who appreciate the work the actors and crew put into creating a serious dark fantasy show.
I tend to steer away from those discussions with him. He came to believe what he does from reading DS websites, fan mail to his site, questions he got at the DS festivals, and some DS discussion groups his relatives told him about and print out stuff. But, fortunately, even believing what he does, it doesn't gnaw at him or anything. That's how he came to his conclusions - from what he has read and what he tends to be asked about the most.
But at any rate, entertainment is about the viewer and that viewer is free to take any program however he or she wishes.
Nancy
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Why do you think he moved to Canada?
Nancy
Tell the old man I love him.
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While it is not something that eats at me, even in this very forum it's evident many look for the bloopers and other screwups. ... But please don't tell me most fans do not spend more time discussing the mistakes, blown lines and clumsy acting than anything else. It's just not true from what I've seen here and elsewhere. (I hope I am not coming off cranky because I'm not; just stating what I believe to be a fact. There is nothing wrong with admitting this is the case.)
I can't offer any sort of an opinion about other forums or any of the DS mailing lists because I unfortunately never have the time to read them anymore, but the vast majority of the more than 9000 topics here on the forum do not include any discussion of the mistakes, blown lines and clumsy acting. If anyone has gotten the impression that is the case, well, they haven't been reading all the posts that have been made (which Midnite and I do indeed do ;)). Do such topics exist? Well, of course they do. :) But those subjects are by no means the major subjects of conversation here...
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nancy,
i'm going to have to disagree with you wholeheartedly.
are we reading the same board?
while i guess that i can only speak for myself i doubt that most of us have invested the time to watch a 1200+ episode series for rickety sets and "bloopers".
actually i think that the actors and show are generally discussed with a considerable level of affection and emotional involvement.if anything the actors are spoken of in terms of reverence unusual when soap opera stars are under discussion.
the mainstream media might focus on those things but i think that most fans are looking for something else.
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I think fans see DS as campy and enjoy it for the bloopers. This isn't exacty news nor is it a criticism.
If that is true, it is unfortunate and something of a slap in the face to the actors and people behind the scenes who worked hard to create a serious supernatural series.
I find it hard to believe that most fans are into the show for laughs. I doubt the show has survived as long as it has because people get off on bloopers. I think the more likely scenario is the old adage that the most negative voices are generally the loudest. I think most DS fans watch it for the good writing, acting and atmosphere and forgive the bloopers, not delight in them. It seems in the 80s DS had this reputation amongst uninformed journalists for being "campy." Lately, this notion has started to change a bit, and "horror/fantasy" magazines and websites in particular seem to be giving DS the place it deserves as a groundbreaking and legendary show in the genre DESPITE the mistakes. People who make fun of the actors should try memorizing pages of lengthy monologues overnight and then recite those lines verbatim the next day in front of a camera. They can then repeat this 5 times a week.
If you wish, do tell Jonathan there are a lot of fans who don't think DS is a camp-fest and who appreciate the work the actors and crew put into creating a serious dark fantasy show.
Bravo Penny D ;D !!! Much my same thoughts. I tend to groan like an unhappy ghost when I hear the C- word (c*mp) associated with every DS article. While I can't say I don't have a few favorite bloopers, I also know full well they are only a part of the then inability to edit video tape affordably, and the quick pace of producing a daily show. I think with a few exceptions the show was very well acted and often wonderfully scripted, That's why I still watch it often, that and I love the supernatural soap concept. No one before or since had the right mix this one run did. If might be allowed to paraphrase from, gasp, Richard Harris's "MacArthur Park," "They'll never have that recipe again, " not the way they did in '66 to '71.
I never dwell upon Jonathan's missed lines. If anything, I do more frequently mull upon all the times when he truly NAILED it! (All puns intended ;)). Such scenes as speaking to Sarah, the fate of Dave Woodard, or the "stormy night" with Vicky and Carolyn. Marvelous. Untouchable. On one level, I can see why he may have once been sought after as the next big "horror star," he often has not only the supernatural channeling of Lugosi, but often the otherworldliness of Karloff as well, along with his own charm. Nonetheless, I respect his decision to quietly retire to his own. Maybe it was better to allow some few, great moments of quality than squander his talent on the remakes no doubt offered. To me, Jonathan will always hold a solid place justly earned in the misty realm of genre greats.
Michael
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Here's MY two cents on the subject: As some of you might already know, I absolutely LOATHE the character of Barnabas Collins. Loathe and deteste him.
I wouldn't feel that strongly about a character who wasn't played brilliantly. If Frid was a hack, he wouldn't have made such an impression on me. No matter what went wrong, I was always too invested in despising the character to care about the actor's insignificant mistakes.
What a shame that he's heard from so many fans about the mistakes and gaffs, and never enough about the magic that took place when the script and the performance worked perfectly.
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While it is not something that eats at me, even in this very forum it's evident many look for the bloopers and other screwups. ... But please don't tell me most fans do not spend more time discussing the mistakes, blown lines and clumsy acting than anything else. It's just not true from what I've seen here and elsewhere. (I hope I am not coming off cranky because I'm not; just stating what I believe to be a fact. There is nothing wrong with admitting this is the case.)
I can't offer any sort of an opinion about other forums or any of the DS mailing lists because I unfortunately never have the time to read them anymore, but the vast majority of the more than 9000 topics here on the forum do not include any discussion of the mistakes, blown lines and clumsy acting. If anyone has gotten the impression that is the case, well, they haven't been reading all the posts that have been made (which Midnite and I do indeed do ;)). Do such topics exist? Well, of course they do. :) But those subjects are by no means the major subjects of conversation here...
I sincerely doubt that we'd be discussing this show 35 years after its cancellation or celebrating the 40th anniversary of its debut if the "mistakes, blown lines and clumsy acting" were the primary sources of its appeal. If that were the case, then hardly anyone would shell out the money to purchase 254 VHS tapes or 32 DVD sets. Granted, the bloopers are a part of the show's appeal, and sometimes too much emphasis can be placed on them (although I feel that many fans view those moments with affection rather than scorn). However, no one would bother to sit through hours and hours of episodes just to catch the occasional mistake. I've watched the complete run of the series several times and I can honestly say that I return to the series for all of its good qualities -- intricate plotlines, terrific characterizations, gorgeous sets and costumes, and an overall tone that is unlike anything else ever seen on television.
When I think of Frid, I immediately think of his flawless delivery of the "I was a Collins..." monologue (a moment that represents all that is good about DS), his astonishing ability to be simultaneously despicable and sympathetic, and his complete metamorphasis when portraying Bramwell in the final weeks of the series. A mention of Grayson brings to mind the early imperiousness of Dr. Hoffman, the joyful abandon with which she played Magda, and her moving portrayal of unrequited love that made the character of Julia indispensable. KLS, Nancy Barrett, Thayer David, Joan Bennett...every actor left an indelible and positive mark on DS that far transcends whatever momentary laugh might be had as the result of an awkward line reading.
For me, DS is unlike any other television show that has ever aired, or will likely air in the future. Dan Curtis and his company of writers, actors, directors, and technical and creative artists came together and produced 1,225 episodes of pure magic. The setting -- Collinsport, Maine -- is more than a fictional town; it is a universe unto itself, filled with unique individuals, and driven by conflicts unlike anything those of us in the real world will ever face. When watching an episode, I am completely drawn into that universe, so completely removed from the real world, and am able to forget about all the mundane problems and inconveniences of day-to-day living. If I have a bad day at school or at work, I need only indulge myself in the DS universe and all thoughts of a vexing assignment or a disagreement with a co-worker leave my mind.
We live in an age ruled by ironic, hipper-than-thou attitudes, so it is natural for some to latch onto the occasional mistakes that plagued the show as an unavoidable result of the method of production. However, I believe that the true legacy of DS is found in all of those wonderfully magical and moving moments, when everything went right, that far outnumber those few times when something went wrong.
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Perfect, ClaudeNorth.
And as for
When watching an episode, I am completely drawn into that universe, so completely removed from the real world, and am able to forget about all the mundane problems and inconveniences of day-to-day living. If I have a bad day at school or at work, I need only indulge myself in the DS universe and all thoughts of a vexing assignment or a disagreement with a co-worker leave my mind.
Yes, oh yes, oh yes. I was trying to figure out how to say that myself, and you beat me to the punch.
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My oh my, I did not intend to spark such a discussion though what has been written is wonderfully articulated.
However, when "called on it" those fans who focus on flaws, etc. do go on about how great the series is. I am not saying anyone in this thread is doing this but this has been my experience. In the daily, casual conversation, my observation is that the focus is elsewhere.
I was wrong, however, to imply that the focus on flaws was a big part of this forum discussion. That is not true. While I do not have the time to read each and every post (I wish I could) it has been said in other DS group/board circles that this is "where the adults go" to discuss DS and that is certainly true.
Here you can express an unpopular thought and not have the villagers chase you through the hills with pikes and fire.
Nancy
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just my 2 cents...i love the show flaws and all. i think Frid is a wonderful actor hell i could not
do it just like i can't throw a 98 mile hr fast ball (wish i could i'd be famous)
it was a different era and no one thought anyone would be watching
this show 40 years later. i love his Barnabas, he potrayed him as a flawed
human and i really don't pay any attention to the mistakes if anything
they come across as more realistic to me i hate perfection it is very overrated ;)
jennifer
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Probably the first thing I'll note is the bloops. In the same way one fondly smiles at their children for the cute things they do not because you wanna feel holier than thou. I am a fan because of the stories and such and I like the bloops too. You gotta smile and not be too serious.
[angel12]
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I certainly do not watch Dark Shadows for the mistakes.
It's sad to know that all Jonathan Frid has heard, is that people watch DS just for laughs. I do wish there was a way to let him know that the people who sincerely enjoy DS, don't watch it simply to pick out all the wrong things the actors did. It is a wonderful show with superb acting!
Memorizing dialogue day after day after day was not easy, and Jonathan Frid, and all the other wonderful actors deserve our gratitude for creating such a timeless show!
I applaud them all! :) 8) :)
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<<It's sad to know that all Jonathan Frid has heard, is that people watch DS just for laughs. I do wish there was a way to let him know that the people who sincerely enjoy DS, don't watch it simply to pick out all the wrong things the actors did. It is a wonderful show with superb acting!
Oh, don't worry, he'll see this thread and all the kind comments the cousins have made one day since he checks it once a month! ;)
I couldn't agree more w/what everyone has said, *I* don't watch for the bloopers, I watch for all the reasons listed. The bloopers are fun, but not the end all, be all for me. ;)
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When I think of Frid, I immediately think of his flawless delivery of the "I was a Collins..." monologue (a moment that represents all that is good about DS), his astonishing ability to be simultaneously despicable and sympathetic, and his complete metamorphasis when portraying Bramwell in the final weeks of the series.
OMG! How true! Then there's the oft-mentioned, by me, scene in the tower room in 1897 between Ang and Barn. In a word--FLAWLESS! And Jon as Bramwell? Well, he was just HOTTER than Georgia asphault as Bramwell! Why do you think I just wrote a book about Bram and Catherine? ;D Barn was completely different, sweet, gentle and caring when he was good, TERRIFYING when he was bad. But Bramwell was the romantic lead and of all the things Barn was, he was never that, IMHO anyway. Well, except maybe in 1795. I like that the "John's" got to be the romantic heros for the final DS plotline as JK was hot as Kendrick too! They 'earned' it as far as I'm concerned.:)
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Yes, it was mighty fine to see JF and JK on equal footing as strong figures in the plot!
Petofi
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When I think of Frid, I immediately think of his flawless delivery of the "I was a Collins..." monologue (a moment that represents all that is good about DS), his astonishing ability to be simultaneously despicable and sympathetic, and his complete metamorphosis when portraying Bramwell in the final weeks of the series.
OMG! How true! Then there's the oft-mentioned, by me, scene in the tower room in 1897 between Ang and Barn. In a word--FLAWLESS! And Jon as Bramwell? Well, he was just HOTTER than Georgia asphault as Bramwell! Why do you think I just wrote a book about Bram and Catherine? ;D Barn was completely different, sweet, gentle and caring when he was good, TERRIFYING when he was bad. But Bramwell was the romantic lead and of all the things Barn was, he was never that, IMHO anyway. Well, except maybe in 1795. I like that the "John's" got to be the romantic heros for the final DS plotline as JK was hot as Kendrick too! They 'earned' it as far as I'm concerned.:)
I never thought of JF as sexy when he played Barnabas, but when I saw him as Bramwell, I was completely blown away by the raw sexuality that he exuded in the role. It was as if Bramwell were being played by a different actor. I think it says a lot about JF's talent that he was able to transform himself to such a degree.
Is the 1897 scene you mentioned the one in which Barn says, "Forgive me for being ungallant, but when I look at you..."? That's another favorite of mine. It's one of those wonderful moments when the writing, directing, and acting all serve each other well.
Another great scene is Barn's and Burke's comparison of their relationship to a duel and a poker game. Again, everything came together perfectly.
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I have several thoughts here, first of all , to the "new" Professor Stokes, I am so sorry you and your wife have found posting here as you do high volume so hard that you have to leave, but I will remind you you can read as a guest. I, too, encountered that not being able to post after 120 seconds and found it very frustrating. This is a wonderful board, but gets too "picky" at times, so sometimes I read as a guest, too.
Now, as to my reply about Jonathan and the bloopers, I have read quotes from him where he has mentioned the fans focusing on them, etc. Heck, as I have even said before, I have gotten frustrated that his former costar Lara, with whom he had such rapport both on and off screen has at times focused on his forgetting his lines, though in a recent interview on her book tour she did say that it worked so well for him as it allowed him to play the tortured vampire so well, so that is how I think she ultimately feels.
Still, there were performances on DS that could border on camp and were over the top, a good example is Ms. Hall and Roger Davis, though both could also be very effective at times.
I am tickled to hear that Jonathan reads these boards once in a great while. One thing, though, even if a person knows Jonathan and/or has met him in person or at a show, that does not mean that they would know of every single fan encouter he had--i know that while there were many fans who sadly only went to his shows or did not and went to the stagedoor for an autograph because they wanted to see "Barnabas", I know a lot of other fans did go to the one man shows and other performances because they admire him as an actor, that is why I certainly did. I borught a family member with me to one of his shows who has absolutely no interest in DS and is very picky about giving standing ovations, but my relative heartily joined the standing ovation the audience gave Jonathan.
I am glad to see all the great comments here that board members admire Jonathan as a talented actor and don't look for the bloops. If I ever sat down with Jonathan I would love to hear any impressions he had about working with Lara and the wonderful chemistry they had, but I would also be equally happy to discuss Shakespeare or European history with him, which seem to be addiional interests of his--I love the historical essays and observations Jonathan has put on his website.
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I never thought of JF as sexy when he played Barnabas, but when I saw him as Bramwell, I was completely blown away by the raw sexuality that he exuded in the role. It was as if Bramwell were being played by a different actor. I think it says a lot about JF's talent that he was able to transform himself to such a degree.
Is the 1897 scene you mentioned the one in which Barn says, "Forgive me for being ungallant, but when I look at you..."? That's another favorite of mine. It's one of those wonderful moments when the writing, directing, and acting all serve each other well.
Yes I agree, it WAS as if a different actor was playing Bramwell. I like the scene [spoiler]after Bramwell recovers from being shot in the duel w/Morgan and he goes to see Catherine and is goading her about spending time w/her sister Daphne. When he says, "Does that bother you?" and kind of leers at her, classic![/spoiler]
Re: 1897, yep that be the scene! ;D
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Oh, my goodness, is Jonathan ever sexy as Bramwell, he and Lara sizzle up the screen as Bramwell and Catherine!!
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Professor Stokes and Bugsie, I'm so sorry to see you both leave, although I understand your reason. Best of luck to you, and stop in for a visit every now and then, okay? :)
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Sorry to be coming in late on this. For a variety of reasons I haven't been able to get over here since before the fest. Trying to play catch up tonight, what, only 8 more pages out of 12 pages of new posts to go! [5393]
I think fans see DS as campy and enjoy it for the bloopers. This isn't exacty news nor is it a criticism.
If that is true, it is unfortunate and something of a slap in the face to the actors and people behind the scenes who worked hard to create a serious supernatural series.
I find it hard to believe that most fans are into the show for laughs. I doubt the show has survived as long as it has because people get off on bloopers. I think the more likely scenario is the old adage that the most negative voices are generally the loudest. I think most DS fans watch it for the good writing, acting and atmosphere and forgive the bloopers, not delight in them. It seems in the 80s DS had this reputation amongst uninformed journalists for being "campy." Lately, this notion has started to change a bit, and "horror/fantasy" magazines and websites in particular seem to be giving DS the place it deserves as a groundbreaking and legendary show in the genre DESPITE the mistakes. People who make fun of the actors should try memorizing pages of lengthy monologues overnight and then recite those lines verbatim the next day in front of a camera. They can then repeat this 5 times a week.
If you wish, do tell Jonathan there are a lot of fans who don't think DS is a camp-fest and who appreciate the work the actors and crew put into creating a serious dark fantasy show.
Penny all I can do is second your wonderfully put post. A LOT of us feel that way, but as you said get drowned out by the others who have a different perpective. Its a lot like what I experenced in Trek fandom in particular, where the media and some of the powers that be had their perception of what they THOUGHT the fans interest was -- which is often not what has really drawn people to a show at all. Note the media perception of "Trekkies" -- again, the most visible and vocal parts of that fandom, not the average fans. The kind of poorly behaved, extreme fans you have in all fandoms -- who make the rest of us want to wear signs that say "I'm NOT one of THOSE fans!" >:D
All kidding aside, even as a kid I don't remember really paying much mind to the bloopers -- I thought of it more as a televised stage play, even then. Live TV was still not uncommon when DS was on (Think things like Hallmark Hall of Fame). I enjoy seeing how the actors RESCUE themselves far more. That's a skill in of itself, that knowing how to cover when the right lines do a disappearing act from your brain.
What I love about the show as an adult is the lovely rich layered characters and plots. KLS has rightly pointed out a parallel between DS and Trek above and beyond their premier in the same year. She has a point: both are morality plays, classic stories of good and evil and how people react to things that happen to them; as much a modern mythology as George Lucas made from Joseph Campbell by way of Bruno Bettelheim's Uses of Enchantment.
The idea that anyone would really be drawn to the show and spend as much time as most fans spend on their fandoms, only to to laugh at the bloopers and mock the actors saddens me. How empty can people's lives BE if they have to get their satisfaction from the mistakes and embarrassment of others.
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... it has been said in other DS group/board circles that this is "where the adults go" to discuss DS and that is certainly true.
Here you can express an unpopular thought and not have the villagers chase you through the hills with pikes and fire.
Again, coming in embarrassingly late on this one, but Nancy.... [rofl10] [a1f5] Though, speaking as one who has been-- in other venues, let me stress -- chased by the flaming torches for expressing a courteous opinion or defending victims of predators, I tend to call them the village idiots myself.
And I have to second the thought about this being where the adults/grownups hang out. Thank goodness Julianka7 kept after me until I made it over here and gave DS discussion venues one last chance.
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In reading the thread about DS being watched for bloopers, etc. I have to say, that I'm usually so engrossed in the story and the acting, that I often miss the so called bloopers. In fact when I purchased the "blooper" vhs tape, I often had to rewind to catch the mistakes at all! DS was, and continues to be, captivating!
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I don't believe the flub remark will/would bother JF. He believes the reason most fans watch DS is to make fun of it and the acting, etc. It's the impression he has gotten from reading DS websites and other things. :P So no worry about offending whenever he reads such stuff here or elsewhere.
Well, even though people notice the mistakes, I'd say we stick around to watch all the episodes and buy the DVD sets or VHS series because of the acting and storylines than the bloopers and mistakes! I find the mistakes give the show the feel of real stage production instead of being able to redo things before taping. I like the realism of the show, where people do make mistakes when saying something. We do it all the time in real conversations. GO DARK SHADOWS and Jonathan Frid...along with all his "friends" and "enemies" from the show.
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Claude, with the hipper-than-thou remarks, I'm right there with you. I am so sick to death of self-satisfied smartasses. Though I may appear to be one myself once in awhile... Penny and others had great remarks too.
I'm nearing 1000 posts though it's hard to believe. Maybe you'd better do a recount. Anyway, in all the time I've been here, I've never seen one single post from one of these blooper fans. Not one has posted on this thread. Jonathan must feel encouraged by this.
I'm going to suggest here that a lot of fans are completely supportive and respectful of the actors, yet at the same time can occasionally laugh at blown lines. If Mr. Frid has passed by video rooms at cons and has heard laughing, I think a lot of that came from the smarter, more appreciative fans. If that sounds a bit schizoid, or contradictory, well, I can't explain it. People are funny. The laughs probably create a terrible impression when you're an actor walking by. I'd be insulted.
I feel for the actors when the blown lines happen. Sympathy pains. Mr. Frid sounds a bit mystified on his site, when discussing how reverential fans are about his acting despite mistakes. It's an amazing thing that an actor's performance could be great enough to withstand that many missed lines. It really is. I don't see how he did it.
I've seen a few minutes here and there of present-day soap operas. Every line is delivered perfectly. I've decided that they must hire people (models maybe) with freakishly good memories over actors with souls. They're automatons from what I can tell.
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I've seen a few minutes here and there of present-day soap operas. Every line is delivered perfectly. I've decided that they must hire people (models maybe) with freakishly good memories over actors with souls. They're automatons from what I can tell.
They have multiple takes. I have a couple television shows on dvd that contain blooper reels and one has several takes of one specific scene. But that's why you never see any bloopers on those shows. What you're seeing could be their fourth take. I'd probably need at least three or four takes and I might be being generous because I have a tendency to get tongue-tied. It really is amazing how well they did on DS with no retakes.
For me to get as involved with a show (or movie) as I became with DS there are two things that have to capture me and those are 01) a character or characters, and 02) the story. I've never associated DS with bloopers. Half the time when I'm watching the show I don't even notice them because I'm so involved with the people and what's happening on screen that they go right over my head.
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They have multiple takes. I have a couple television shows on dvd that contain blooper reels and one has several takes of one specific scene. But that's why you never see any bloopers on those shows. What you're seeing could be their fourth take. I'd probably need at least three or four takes and I might be being generous because I have a tendency to get tongue-tied. It really is amazing how well they did on DS with no retakes.
For me to get as involved with a show (or movie) as I became with DS there are two things that have to capture me and those are 01) a character or characters, and 02) the story. I've never associated DS with bloopers. Half the time when I'm watching the show I don't even notice them because I'm so involved with the people and what's happening on screen that they go right over my head.
Yes that's so true. I enjoy watching those outtakes on the DVDs too because it tells me that those actors are human and not infallible. I enjoy watching them laugh at themselves and each other over their mistakes. If DS had the money and time they wouldn't have had the bloopers in the tapes either. I feel those mistakes give DS a charm that sets it above all the other masterpieces for sale.
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I have to say the charm of mistakes escapes me. I hope we're not edging into that dreaded "kitsch" (or camp) zone now. I suppose not but I just don't feel that charm. Instead I feel tense and breathless watching, knowing they had to work and rush so hard to get such a complex production (period costumes and sets etc.) done, five days a week. The mistakes make me feel how rushed they were.
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I can understand your confusion by my use of the word "charm" in the same statement as "mistakes". When I make mistakes, I don't see the charm in it either. Looking at it from the actors' point of view, there's nothing charming about bloopers or errors. I have to admit, I used the wrong word to describe my feelings about the DS bloopers/mistakes.
I am not offended by those dreaded mistakes nor do they turn me off from watching and loving Dark Shadows. People who don't know the series and watch it for a few minutes, comment on how bad the acting is and the errors. [I go into defense mode.] They don't give the show enough time to enjoy it and appreciate every aspect of the production. I agree with the actors that it's like a repertory theater and when the mistakes appear on the screen, I feel like I'm watching live as they do their scenes. I enjoy EVERY aspect of the show so I guess I'm charmed by everything on the screen. [clear as mud?]