Sarah's powers / was Re: Discuss - Ep #0314

[MagnusTrask]

Split from a discussion beginning here:

Re: Discuss - Ep #0314

Sarah could have had something to say about that family incident in 1897, when BC was found out.    Why didn't she pop up then?    for the first time?

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Perhaps because she knew that wasn't actually the Barn of 1897, but the Barn of 1969...

[MagnusTrask]

Perhaps because she knew that wasn't actually the Barn of 1897, but the Barn of 1969...

Would that make a difference?    Killing is killing.    I don't let Barnabas off the hook the slightest bit for that event in 1897, I don't know if anyone else does....   I think Sarah of 1897 would sense her brother is back, killing someone, but since he wasn't doing harm before that, perhaps it's only action she's alerted by, not intent, and either way, she didn't have much of a chance to awaken and intervene given how fast things were moving. 

I don't know how much Sarah (8 years old?) could comprehend about a 1969 brother inhabiting an 1897 brother.    At most, I think she'd sense something strange and mysterious was happening with him, and if she got any real sense of it, this would take time, and she'd process and express it in ways we might find difficult to interpret.   She's speaking from an alien perspective.

I doubt she'd care.    I think she'd want to take Barney out to the woodshed.

Sarah and her perspective is one of the most interesting things about DS to me, now.   Lydia probably agrees.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Would that make a difference?    Killing is killing.

Well, the difference would be that in Barnabas' personal timeline Sarah has already told him that she'll never appear to him until he's good. And, obviously, killing someone isn't good.

but since he wasn't doing harm before that

As for not doing harm, I suppose that all depends on the degrees of harm one is considering. True, Barn hadn't killed anyone up to that point. But he had attacked Sandor, Charity, Beth and Dirk (which in turn had enabled Dirk to cause all sorts of havoc along with the death of Pansy and the extremely tragic death of Rachel), he'd forced Sandor to do things against his will, and he all too often treated Magda like she was some slave who was simply there to do his bidding - and whenever she balked, he'd threaten to kill Sandor. Not exactly the behavior of a sweet and lovable Mr. Nice Guy. 

[MagnusTrask]

Well, the difference would be that in Barnabas' personal timeline Sarah has already told him that she'll never appear to him until he's good. And, obviously, killing someone isn't good.

Sarah of 1897 doesn't know about BC's personal timeline, or her part in it, or the future.

Alright, let me fine-tune here and say I'm talking about Sarah not appearing visibly, but stopping Barnabas's actions.    While 1897 Sarah wouldn't know about 1967 Sarah's promises, her feelings and inclinations would be similar, and she wouldn't "appear" but would be alerted into coming back and interfering, if more incidents like the one in question were to happen.

I'm missing the Sandor portion of 1897.     Threats and mistreatment are presumably not enough to rouse a slumbering ghost though.     Once roused, she's take notice of those things.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Sarah of 1897 doesn't know about BC's personal timeline, or her part in it, or the future.

Sarah is a supernatural/metaphysical spirit/entity, and as such I don't know that we can say with 100% certainty that she wouldn't be aware of many things - past, present and future. Spirits might possess a timeless degree of knowledge - it just might be a matter of tapping into it. Who's to say that they're not completely unconstrained by reality as we know it or that they don't primarily reside within a higher plane of existence from which they might cross to appear in this reality?
(For instance, though not a spirit, but as someone who had died (and done so numerous times  ) Angelique knew that before Barnabas' time in 1897 came to an end, someone would stake him. And there may be other examples on DS that I'm forgetting at the moment...)

[MagnusTrask]

MB--Sure, it's always possible ghosts know the future, but I would wait until someone chose to write them that way, and made it viable.    One thing I don't like about 1968 is how loose they are with everything.    Suddenly, this or that being has this or that power just because the script says so.   (The end of 1968 and start to 1969, with the appearance of Chris Jennings, is a big relief, because they stop throwing random supernatural things at us, and begin with a well-thought-out extended viable storyline, that's more believable.) 

So, until they surprise me with a viable atemporal ghost, which they won't since DS was cancelled and it's over, I'll take it for granted that any Sarah who exists in 1897 is totally of 1897... not connected to the future, anyway.   Ang is a different creature.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Sure, it's always possible ghosts know the future, but I would wait until someone chose to write them that way, and made it viable. ... So, until they surprise me with a viable atemporal ghost, which they won't since DS was cancelled and it's over, I'll take it for granted that any Sarah who exists in 1897 is totally of 1897... not connected to the future, anyway.

And that's certainly your prerogative - though others may not necessarily feel similarly. 

Actually, now that I think about it, I seem to recall the ghost of Bill Malloy warning Vicki of dire future consequences that could befall her if she didn't leave Collinwood. There may also be other examples that I can't think of at the moment.

[MagnusTrask]

Actually, now that I think about it, I seem to recall the ghost of Bill Malloy warning Vicki of dire future consequences that could befall her if she didn't leave Collinwood. There may also be other examples that I can't think of at the moment.

Which means that it's not written in stone, which suggests they don't know "the future" but just what might happen.     It sounds as if that could have been a prediction based on what's known (by a ghost, who has better supernatural information than the rest of us) to be happening in the present.     I wouldn't know.  I'm guessing that was pre-Barnabas.    I'm not saying you're wrong;  I'm just trying to be conservative about it.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I'm not saying you're wrong;  I'm just trying to be conservative about it.

But at the very least, that example opens the door to a possibility. 

[Midnite]

Which means that it's not written in stone, which suggests they don't know "the future" but just what might happen.     It sounds as if that could have been a prediction based on what's known (by a ghost, who has better supernatural information than the rest of us) to be happening in the present.     I wouldn't know.  I'm guessing that was pre-Barnabas.    I'm not saying you're wrong;  I'm just trying to be conservative about it.

[Very spoilery]

I think an example of Sarah's precognition occurs later in ep #344, when she appears (though only her flute playing is heard) to tell David of an imminent catastrophic event that has no basis in current events:

DAVID:  Do you hear that?
CAROLYN: Yes.
DAVID: It's Sarah! Something's going to happen! Soon, very soon!
CAROLYN: What?
DAVID:  Nobody knows it yet, but it's going to happen far, far away.
CAROLYN: Where?
DAVID: No one knows yet, but it's going to make us all very sad for a long time. No one's going to cause it, and no one can stop it. It's going to be an accident.
CAROLYN: Who's it going to happen to?
DAVID: Nobody knows yet.
CAROLYN: David, none of this is real. It can't be!
DAVID: It is, and there's nothing we can do about it.  Nothing.

In the next scene, David bids goodbye to Burke.

[Joeytrom]

Actually going by what happened in 1967, Sarah's spirit should have materialized once Barnabas is released from his coffin in 1897.  They didnt want to go that route again as there was already a ghost story going on in the present time.

[loril54]

They would have needed another Sarah,  the currant Sarah would have been to old.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Actually going by what happened in 1967, Sarah's spirit should have materialized once Barnabas is released from his coffin in 1897.  They didnt want to go that route again as there was already a ghost story going on in the present time.

How do we know that she didn't materialize, but she just didn't necessarily show herself to anyone we saw in the 1897 storyline? Or if she did appear to any of the characters we know (other than Barn  ), they were under orders from Sarah to keep it a complete secret? Either premise could make for an interesting fanfic, particularly Sarah's views on everything Barn did in 1897...

[MagnusTrask]

This is a great subject.  Lydia needs to chime in on this, more. 

Again, though I may have said it on another thread, I think it takes enoremous provocation to rouse a ghost from whatever unimaginable
"other place" they normally inhabit... perhaps a limbo in which they rest in peace.      Think how much it may take sometimes to wake you up!   

Barnabas leaving the coffin in 1897 (though I don't know that part of the story) would not be enough.    If there were dead vampire victims then, the yes, after a couple of those, Sarah might notice.    And by the incident with the family member, later, Sarah might be ready to intervene.  But how do we know what different conditions there may be for Sarah, in the afterlife, compared to 1967?   Maybe she's not as connected to the living world at that point, for whatever reason.

Midnite:   "Precognition" yes, but that doesn't necessarily extend to future centuries.    Some living individuals in DS get a sense of imminent danger, and are right, but they still don't have a road map to what's going to happen in a hundred years.   Anyway, David keeps going on about how "nobody knows" what it is, or when, or how.... "nobody" might very well include Sarah.    She didn't give specifics after all... maybe she was telling all she knew.   

I'm glad it's this vague.   It's good to discuss this, but if we knew for sure it would be boring.