Kittys fate

[Joeytrom]

They never really went into detail as to what happened with her & I am still confused on some points.

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

Did she really go to 1796 with Barnabas or did Barnabas just believe that Kitty was inhabiting Jostte's body?   It seems the Leviathan's may have led Barnabas to think she was really in 1796 with him.   They could have had him imagine she was entering Josette's portrait at the end of 1897.  Another thing is that if Josette dies again by suicide (poison), where does Kitty go?  Are they both killed at the same time?  I tend to think Kitty never really left 1897 and after her confusion passed, she went back to Edward and ended up marrying him.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Did she really go to 1796 with Barnabas or did Barnabas just believe that Kitty was inhabiting Jostte's body?

In Ep #885, soon after Kitty and Barnabas pass through the portrait, Josette talks to Natalie about having just had a dream about being in another time, detailing the events that had just happened to Kitty. Not definitive evidence that Kitty traveled back to 1796 - but a pretty good indication that was the case.

Aother thing is that if Josette dies again by suicide (poison), where does Kitty go?

A good question. Presumably she died as well. It's always dangerous to presume almost anything on DS (), but on DS life essences/life forces/whatever tend to inhabit their original bodies when time traveling (Eve did this with Danielle Roget's trip to 1796). If Josette died, and her life force and Kitty's are one and the same, which, considering Kitty is Josette's reincarnation, would seem to make sense, that could be a strong indication that Kitty died as well. But in the DS world, where nothing is ever consistent, there's probably a whole world of speculation open here.

[loril54]

Then don't we have the problem of her coming to Collinwood in the first place and see Barnabas in 1897. Does that mean the her marriage didn't happen either.

Maybe Rachel then would have ended up marrying the english Lord. 

[MagnusTrask]

The 1796 stuff doesn't prevent Kitty's earlier life in 1897 and prior to 1897.    If I suddenly right now go back to 1900 (like if my time machine gets Y2K), my 1900 is the latest thing to happen to me.     For me 1900 comes after 2006.     Personal timelines are what matter.

There was no Kitty body anymore since hers merged with 1796 Josette's, so Kitty died with Josette unless her soul was snatched away by someone.   The bizarre thing is, they basically say Kitty IS the reincarnation of Josette.    So.... it's like Barnabas got staked in 1897 for real, say, and then there was a 1969 soul and a supressed 1897 soul both entering the afterlife as spirits simultaneously.    This is insoluble since 1897 BC has to survive bodily till 1969 for 1969 BC to exist.

With Kitty/Josette.... when both die in 1796, Josette reincarnates, eventually to become Kitty and find herself back in herself in time for... not exactly the same suicide but... sort of.     Or poison twice with jumping never happening.  It's all slightly confusing.     So... does the Kitty version of Josette also get reincarnated, separately?

[arashi]

The 1796 stuff doesn't prevent Kitty's earlier life in 1897 and prior to 1897.    If I suddenly right now go back to 1900 (like if my time machine gets Y2K), my 1900 is the latest thing to happen to me.     For me 1900 comes after 2006. Personal timelines are what matter.

Interesting, I like this description of Time Travel.

[Lydia]

Getting back to basics: I don't understand the idea that Kitty was the reincarnation of Josette.  They don't seem like the same person to me, and the differences don't strike me as being simply a result of environment.  Kitty had a sense of humor, but I don't remember Josette having one.  Josette seemed to be an invader in Kitty's life - rather like Pansy Faye taking over Charity Trask's body, but one step better.  This leads me to the enchanting possibility that Petofi worked the whole Kitty/Josette trick in order get Barnabas out of his hair - but I can't remember the 1897 chronology clearly enough to be able to work out how that might have come about.

I keep reading MagnusTrask's post and trying to make complete sense of it, but so far have been unsuccessful in my attempts, which is a pity, because what I do get is very interesting.  Please note, though, Magnus, even if your time machine gets Y2K, you should also check to make sure it is aware that there was no February 29, 1900.  It would be inconvenient to find yourself living a day that never happened.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

They don't seem like the same person to me, and the differences don't strike me as being simply a result of environment.  Kitty had a sense of humor, but I don't remember Josette having one.

Well, poor Josette never had much to laugh about.

This leads me to the enchanting possibility that Petofi worked the whole Kitty/Josette trick in order get Barnabas out of his hair - but I can't remember the 1897 chronology clearly enough to be able to work out how that might have come about.

Actually, the realization that Kitty is truly Josette's reincarnation comes about while Quentin and not Petofi is in possession of Petofi's body and the powers of the hand.    And for most of the time that Kitty is having visions of Josette's past, Barnabas is thought to be staked dead in his coffin in the cave and permanently out of the way. And even from the way things play out during Kitty's initial appearance, it seems unlikely that Petofi had anything to do with her arrival - and very soon after that arrival (in the next episode, in fact), Barnabas is staked.

[Lydia]

I'm well aware of the problems with the theory that Petofi called in Josette.  In fact, I seem to remember that he denied quite convincingly that he had had anything to do with Kitty's problem.  But I still like the idea.  Perhaps I'd like it less if it didn't seem just about impossible.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Perhaps I'd like it less if it didn't seem just about impossible.

OK.    Well, when it comes to almost anything, I'm all for dreaming the impossible is possible - especially in a show like DS. 

[Gerard]

I think I recall reading in one of the Almanac books that while Barnabas initially thought that Rachel was the reincarnation of Josette, she wasn't (they just looked alike, but there the simularity ended), while Kitty was, in fact, Josette's reincarnation.  But it's interesting to see how the lives of Josette and Kitty were different.  Josette was born in wealth and lived a pampered lifestyle, making her somewhat spoiled.  Kitty was born in the duldrums of nineteenth century working class and had to "claw" her way to the top (in this case, by marriage).  When she lost it all because her dearly, beloved deceased wealthy husband blew it all on candy, she had to rely on her working class fight-for-what-you-want senses in order to maintain the comfy, upper-class life to which she had become accustomed.  I wonder if it had happened to Josette, how would she have dealt with it?  She never had to fight for anything and probably would have no idea what to do.  If she lost everything that meant something to her, she undoubtedly would've just curled up and died.  Come to think of it, she did.

Gerard

[Lydia]

I wonder if it had happened to Josette, how would she have dealt with it?  She never had to fight for anything and probably would have no idea what to do.  If she lost everything that meant something to her, she undoubtedly would've just curled up and died.  Come to think of it, she did.

I can't let that pass, even though this topic is supposed to be about Kitty rather than Josette.  Josette had guts.  She could fight.  She impresses me every time I watch the 1795 storyline. 

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Well, the sad fact is that when Josette thought she'd lost everything, she drank poison and ended her life. In Ep #886, as Gerard points out, she literally curled up and died. It's pretty hard to argue against that. Apparently whatever fight there may have been in her at one time was completely gone...

[MagnusTrask]

As for Kitty's dissimilarity to Josette... we aren't supposed to be reincarnated with an identical personality.    It would be a bit of a coincidence if her personality was all that similar.  Besides, environment does make for bigger changes in personality than what we see here.    Reincarnation knows no gender boundaries... that's irrelevant in this case, but it just shows what changes can take place.

[ProfStokes]

Reincarnation knows no gender boundaries...

Oh boy.  What would Barnabas have done if Willie, Roger, or even Harry Johnson had turned out to be the reincarnation of his beloved Josette?

ProfStokes

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Harry Johnson as Josette!    The mind boggles!!