My Dream Collinwood (or would we really want "purely American" 1790s architecture?)

[Connie]

Well, as I said, if one was to strip away the columns and the porch from the Spratt house, it would have been just as boxy as any house built in the Georgian style:
(picture)
In fact, it would have been far less interesting than the Lee House.

Ah....I like that picture of the Old House.
Yeah but it doesn't look as boxy because of the columns and the what d'ya call it design along the roof, etc.  I've always thought the house was rather unusual because it actually looks like a fairly small house when you take away the grand structure around it.  And it sort of fits with the modest size rooms that the sets conveyed.  That column between the drawing room and "foyer" also gives the interior an interesting, unique feel.  I've never seen a picture of the back of the house.  Do any exist?  Or any info about what the inside was like?

....It would have been extremely unlikely. Throughout the 17th, 18th and early 19th centuries, colonial architecture was firmly based in the current styles in England.....

Unlikely, but it COULD have happened, right?  Like you have some eccentric guy with money who just loved that type of house and decided to build one in Maine??

Thanks for all the historical info.  It's interesting.  I've now been paying attention to some historical houses about half a mile from me.  They were built in the 1700's and 1800's.  I think at least one has a plaque that says 1683 or something.  They're boxes -- quite uninteresting (at least to me).  There's one that appears to be made of cement that's quite stark and grim-looking -- very bland.  I can see why the powers that were, chose much grander, more interesting houses for DS.

...Carlotta explains to them (in unscripted dialogue, mind you) that,  "Collinwood was built by Joshua Collins in the late 1600s." HUH!!    If Collinwood had been built that early, why the hell was there a need for the Old House - and what the hell year was it supposedly built?...

Whoa!  ROFL
I never even paid attention to what she was saying.  What do you mean unscripted?  Someone just threw it in at the last minute?

But hey, why should the houses in the movies make any more sense than most of the other things in the original DS universe? 

Hmm.  Well, it IS sort of important to me.  (Why, I don't know).
I guess since there's so much other nonsense and unreality in the show, somehow if everything ELSE were "authentic" it would sort of lend some credence to everything.  Does that make any sense??  LOL


Funny, it's kind of bumming me out to know that the houses aren't realistic in terms of the timelines in the show.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

in my pondering, I stated that the Old House had been designed by a student of Christopher Wren, trying to make its design look like something he would conjure up.  If one would extend his/her imagination, by the appearance of the Old House (and considering the era of the 17th century), it could work with some credible historocity.

True, English Renaissance (click here to see Greenwich Hospital) and Greek Revival share a look (think large columns) in common, but that's about it from an architectural standpoint. Also, Wren's work was done in cut stone and bearing masonry. Truthfully, some American Greek Revival houses would actually fall into the category of using some bearing masonry construction (for example, check out Melrose, located in Natchez, Mississippi), but most of the examples of Greek Revival that I'm familiar with in the New England area are built of timber. Unfortunately for your theory, Spratt House wasn't built of bearing masonry - well, not in its entirety anyway. I'm not totally sure what the house portion of the building was constructed of - it might have been some sort of masonry - but the colonnade was built of timber (which is also the case with Melrose) - and not the greatest timber at that because, before it burned down, it was already falling apart. All one need do is look at pictures of the colonnade to see that:

(Though it was certainly a perfect look for the "Old House" - not that we actually got to see it close-up on the show.  )

Saying the designs are not comparable simply on the basis of cut stone/bearing masonry versus timber may seem like spliting hairs. But in architecture, it isn't really. If one were merely going for a "look," one might be able to get away with some sort of Christopher Wren connection, but the reality with Spratt House is very different...

[coterie-mc]

thought this site offered some interresting period houses http://www.salemweb.com/guide/arch/

[Philippe Cordier]

That wood-paneled great room looked very much like Colllinwood's drawing room -- the closest resemblance to Collinwood of any of these lovely photos ...

My reaction to the pic of the Spratt House was the same as Connie's ... is there a source for that photo where one might be able to copy and save it?  (This was the shot of the facade seen so often on the show).

I hadn't seen the detail of the disrepair of the colonnade of the Spratt House until seeing this photo so large ...

Also, I second Connie's question -- what did you mean about Grayson Hall/Carlotta's line about Collinwood being built by Joshua in the 1600s as being unscripted?

Ever Curious ...

And thanks for all this great background on architecture and the photos ...

[dom]

If you're giving away photo's MB, I love the one of Barn, (as well as the Old House photo). Love them both.

I would have to say that the photos of Barn at the Old House with snow are my all-time faves of DS photos. I can still remember the excitement of seeing them for the first time in the Barnabas photo album book. Back then it was probably because they seemed so out of context to the series. The sense of rarity was very thrilling to me - still is. That this one is in color just knocks me out. Thanks for posting it. What a thrill!

[Connie]

If you're giving away photo's MB, I love the one of Barn, (as well as the Old House photo). Love them both.

Yeah.  Great pictures - especially the one with Barn.  You see the loose shutter in back of him?  Do you suppose that's one of the ones Louie Edmonds "procured" for his Long Island house??



Vlad -- I did a Google search for Spratt House and came up with precious little.  But, if you haven't seen it, there's a nice picture of the Old House from the side here:

http://dirtman2.home.mindspring.com/Spratt.html

[coterie-mc]

Connie, i also did a search and did not come up with much on the "old house". here are a couple of more photo's

[coterie-mc]

                       

[Mysterious Benefactor]

thought this site offered some interresting period houses

Some great stuff there, Robert - thanks for posting the link. 

I've never been to Salem, MA and I'd love to see more of The John Ward House. (There aren't any examples of First-Period style in my vicinity. The city I live in was originally settled in 1656, but any trace of arcitecture from that period was torn down LONG ago (Idiots!!    The earliest remaining examples are Georgian. But then, this is a city where one mayoral administration thought it was just agreat idea to tear down the original City Hall to make way for a new highway and build a new modern monstrosity of a City Hall over that highway. The state thought it was just a great idea too, except they somehow forgot to keep up wit the repairs to the underside of the overpass on which the city hall now sits and some of the concrete from under that overpass fell down onto the higway one day and damaged several cars (thankfully no people were injured). I'm sure you get the idea - but once again I digress...). Too bad the house is partially hidden behind the trees and there aren't any other photos on the site. I guess a trip to Salem is called for one of these days. 

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Also, I second Connie's question -- what did you mean about Grayson Hall/Carlotta's line about Collinwood being built by Joshua in the 1600s as being unscripted?

Script ====================	vs. ===	Movie ====================
... TRACY (trying out one of the sofas) Oh, no! We can't let the house down. Why don't we call Claire and Alex. Tea in the drawing room with the lord of the manor. QUENTIN (to Carlotta) Oh, did you tell the Jenkins' we'd be here today? CARLOTTA I didn't know you would wish it. 30 INT - FIRST FLOOR CORRIDOR _ DAY _ WIDE ANGLE Shooting through Dining Room doors with the table and center piece in F.G., the three of them walk TOWARD CAMERA. 31 INT - FIRST FLOOR STAIRWAY - DAY ANGLE from the second floor landing as they climb the stairs TOWARD CAMERA. CARLOTTA As a child, I used to hide here. ...	| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |	... TRACY (looking at Quentin in protest) Oh, no! We can't let the house down. We can call Claire and Alex and invite them for tea in the drawing room with the lord of the manor. (turns to Carlotta) Did you tell the Jenkins' we'd be here today? Carlotta is mesmorized by Quentin piano doodling. TRACY Carlotta, did you tell the Jenkins' we'd be here? CARLOTTA (coming back to reality) Ah, no. I'm...I'm sorry. I didn't know that's what you wanted. ... Come, let me show you the rest of the house. They leave. 30 INT - FIRST FLOOR CORRIDOR _ DAY _ WIDE ANGLE Shooting through Dining Room doors with the table and center piece in F.G., the three of them walk TOWARD CAMERA. CARLOTTA Collinwood was built by Joshua Collins in the late 1600s. Of course, there have been many changes and additions since then. They walk up the stairs. CARLOTTA (off camera) As a child, I used to hide here. ...

Who knows where the extra bit of Carlotta's dialogue came from (Grayson? - DC? - Sam? - ...?), but her story is, uh, odd, to say the least...

[coterie-mc]

MB Salem is really awesome, i have been there a number of times since the early 80's.  they have really perserved the buildings wonderfully. walking along the cobblestone streets pass the houses really does take you back in time.  is this the john ward house you were looking for??   check out the bottom of the postcard  "The Old House"....i still think they should hold a Dark Shadows festival in Salem. to see Angelique (Lara Parker-the real Angelique!) and Trask there would really stir up some old stories... 

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I've never seen a picture of the back of the house.  Do any exist?

The view of the house on the right side of the the photo that I posted in reply #43 shows the back and I *think* that's about the closet we've ever come to seeing it. The view we're used to seeing on DS is actually the right side of the building.

The photo that you posted a link to in reply #50 shows the front, as does this one:

The photo of Frid that Robert posted in reply #51 shows it up close. I've always loved how Sy Tomashoff used a design that's very similar to the real house. But then, considering that they did do some location filming at Spratt House, I suppose he figured he should tie the set into the real house as well as possible.

Or any info about what the inside was like?

We discussed that in this topic here:

Ricky,

Jonathan Frid posed inside (and outside) the house for several publicity photos...

(And Robert posted one of them in reply #52.  )

Also, the photos I've posted of Spratt House (except for the one in this post, which is from the Fest's The Introduction of Barnabas) were all taken from the DS Companion.

Unlikely, but it COULD have happened, right?  Like you have some eccentric guy with money who just loved that type of house and decided to build one in Maine??

Well, I suppose nothing is "impossible." But given what was actually happening in achitecture in the area, it's virtually impossible that a house like Spratt would have actually been built in a place like Collinsport when the Old House had supposedly been constructed.

Let's put it this way: Aliens from another planet landing in 17th century Maine (actually still Massachusetts) might have been more likely. 

[Philippe Cordier]

Thanks for going to the trouble of setting up the side-by-side comparison of the NODS script with your transcription from the movie.  My copies of the DS Almanac, the movie book, etc., are all in storage.

The additional dialogue is smoothly integrated into the scene and action, so it's definitely not something Ms. Hall ad libbed.  Not that I'm all that familiar with these things, but my guess would be that the writer (Mr. Hall) pencilled in the additional dialogue. It's a nice touch, providing us as it does with additional information and atmosphere, and I'd guess they just didn't trouble too much with logic and consistency 

The additional photos and links here were great.  Wish there were a link to the Barnabas shots if they are on a webpage.  I'd like to save these on my computer, but the forum won't allow me to copy them.  But at least I was able to get the one from Connie's link.  I know copyright issues are sticky and complex, but there are "fair use" provisions, and I don't know how likely it is that someone would use them for personal gain, but you never know ...  It's just that it would be nice to be able to view them on one's PC from time to time.

I was thinking, the back of that one wooden house, the one that looks sort of like a lean-to (or part of it does) looks very much like an old house/building that's on the adjacent lot from my building.  When I first moved here, I thought it was ugly (there's a much more pleasing old brick home, turn of the century, now used by an architectural firm, that's directly in my line of vision), but then my mom said "even that one is interesting," and so I've come to appreciate it more, which is good since I do see it, too, whenever I look out my windows.  It was a house but is now owned by the architectural firm and seems to be used for storage.  I'm inspired now to try to find out when it was built.  It does remind me of a smaller version of the House of the Seven Gables, though my guess is it isn't much more than 100 years old.  I'm sure it's "historic" though.  The oldest building I know of in my area is a stone church built in the 1850s.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

The additional dialogue is smoothly integrated into the scene and action, so it's definitely not something Ms. Hall ad libbed.  Not that I'm all that familiar with these things, but my guess would be that the writer (Mr. Hall) pencilled in the additional dialogue.

Possibly. The script excerpt I used came from DC's script in the DS Movies book. But I also have a copy of Grayson's NoDS script, and those lines aren't in it either - yet her script does contain all sorts of notations...

[Josette]

But I also have a copy of Grayson's NoDS script, and those lines aren't in it either - yet her script does contain all sorts of notations...

Wow!!  How did you get that?!!