My Dream Collinwood (or would we really want "purely American" 1790s architecture?)

[victoriawinters]

Originally constructed from 1925 to 1928, the house cost $4,000,000 and would require almost $20,000,000 to duplicate today. [/b][MB note: that was in 1975 - just think of what it would cost to build now!]

That's provided the neighbors would even let you build!  They have gotten very snotty there about that now.  Also, I'll bet part of the property is now part of the Santa Monica Mountain Conservancy.

Even after the '91 DS was canceled, I'd videotaped several of Greystone's "appearances" because I was (still am) fascinated by its architectural design. Two of the last that feature shots of the gatehouse/driveway were a '92 commercial (that I happened to get while taping something entirely different) for the '93 Infiniti J30 and the ABC Made for TV movie, "My Brother's Wife," from '93. I just checked the tapes, and the palm in vw's photo is nowhere in evidence - though it's certainly possible that it was there but was simply too small. 

It's just barely showing above the fence.  Quite frankly, it's very out of place to the rest of the property.  It must be something that appeared recently.  I'm even surprised I found it in my photos.  It's not that tall to have been there long.  Palm trees grow really quickly.  It could also be a sucker from someone else's yard nearby.

The plant in the photo is either a palm or a cycad-- it's hard to say which without seeing more of it-- but it does scream "tropical!"

I'll have to look very carefully at the property at this year's picnic and see if it's still there.  I'll reshoot the gate again and see if there is a difference.  They were doing renovation up there while I was there last year.  Could have explained that plant there and why it wasn't immediately removed.[/size][/color][/FONT]

[Connie]

The plant in the photo is either a palm or a cycad-- it's hard to say which without seeing more of it-- but it does scream "tropical!"

What's a cycad?  Is that a plant or a tree?

You know what else they have to be careful about when filming something in California that's supposed to take place in the east?  The time of day at the ocean.  I've noticed on more than one occasion on film, it's supposed to be sunset in the east and they've got the sun setting over the ocean.  LOL
Sun setting over the ocean at Collinwood would NOT be a good idea! 

It's supposed to go THIS way.....

Sunrise at the Jersey shore:




Sun setting over the dunes (looking west):

[Midnite]

What's a cycad?  Is that a plant or a tree?

Cycads are palm-like tropical plants.  The most well-known is the sago palm (confusing, I know).

[ psst, trees are plants ]

[onyx_treasure]

     Connie,  I forgot about the sunset.  I live on the East Coast now but was born and lived 30 years in California.  My husband's friends from New Jersey had sent some photos from the beach and I asked why everyone was sunbathing facing the parking lot.  I figured people from New Jersey didn't like the view of the ocean.   My husband laughed at me and explained about the sunrise, sunset thing.
     I was at a place here in Maine called Sebasco(sp) Resorts.  I am not sure of the exact location but we went through Bath.  The atmosphere was perfect.  Eventhough it was summer, it was cold, damp and misty.  Patchy fog rolled in off the ocean.  Couldn't  they get shots like that in Carmel, California?   

[Brian]

OK - now I'm really jealous that you might actually get to see Stan Hywet Hall in person one day, while the likelihood of my passing anywhere near it is slim to none. 

Don't be jealous, MB.  I've lived in Florida for almost 20 years and rarely go back to the Dayton area--which is about two hours from Akron--except for family stuff.   So I certainly have no plans to visit this estate in the near or distant future.

On the other hand, there's a great old house on US 1 between Vero Beach and Fort Pierce (FL) that I'm told was once a winter home for Gloria Swanson sometime during the 1950s or '60s.  Prior to that, I believe it was a brothel for servicemen during WWII.  Last time I drove by, it was an antique emporium.  If I can find some pics, I'll post them.  (It would make a great "Old House"--that's why I mentioned it.)

[LdyAnne]

Did I imagin it or was there something about shooting the series in Vancouver BC? Wonder what suitable houses would be there? I really liked the house they used for that Steven King TV movie Rose Red. But I agree that the Hywett house just looks the part!

Ldyanne

[Connie]

[ psst, trees are plants (IMG) ]

Uh......um.......this is true!  You're absolutely right.  LOL

But YOU know what I mean -- a tree -- a big thing with a trunk and bark, as opposed to a bush, or some flowers, or ivy, or whatever.  Oh the hell with it.  I think I need to read up on tropical plants.  I wouldn't know a sago palm if it fell over on me.
All I know is, I've always wanted to live in a tropical paradise, like Bora Bora or something.  I absolutely despise the cold.
I bet if the Collins family had lived in Hawaii or some such place, they would have been in a much better mood!!!



Mrs. Johnson answers the door.  There stands Barnabas with a big smile on his face.

"Hello!  I'm Barnabas Collins - a distant cousin.  YOU know.....from the San Diego branch of the family!"

[Connie]

....I asked why everyone was sunbathing facing the parking lot.  I figured people from New Jersey didn't like the view of the ocean.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Did I imagin it or was there something about shooting the series in Vancouver BC?

The person behind the barnabasundead Web site stated their own opinion that the pilot might film in Canada. However, all the reports are that it will be shot in and around LA. (Though that news still didn't stop barnabasundead from saying they were still sure it would shoot in Canada (probably because Mark Verheiden's Smallville is shot there). But I suppose the site has given up that idea by now.  )

Speaking of production, the My Entertainment World Web site is STILL listing start of production as the 22nd. Maybe they're going to begin shooting any scenes in which Vicki or Angeliue are alone or ones that they might share (if such scenes even exist), but somehow I very much doubt that. 

[Mysterious Benefactor]

On the other hand, there's a great old house on US 1 between Vero Beach and Fort Pierce (FL) that I'm told was once a winter home for Gloria Swanson sometime during the 1950s or '60s.  Prior to that, I believe it was a brothel for servicemen during WWII.  Last time I drove by, it was an antique emporium.  If I can find some pics, I'll post them.  (It would make a great "Old House"--that's why I mentioned it.)

Sounds really intriguing. I'd love to see it so I hope you can find those pics.


Actually, your post got me to thinking what might the Old House actually look like if it was accurate to the period and built in a  "purely American" 17th-to-very-early-18th century design and had not been an amazing precursor to Greek Revival (like the Old House in the original (I love how in Ep #475 Stokes says something to the effect that the Old House is Greek Revival before they got it right.  )) or not based on the design of the Collinwood in England (as was the case in the '91 revival). Two styles come to mind - one that's appropriate but not very practical or likely, and another which could prove quite nice. The first is:

First-Period English Style (1600-1700)

• 1) Massive chimney
• 2) Steeply pitched roof
• 3) One-room depth
• 4) No eave overhang or cornice detailing
• 5) Small casement windows with many small panes

One of the possible problems with this design, though, is feature #3 - the one room depth. However, some examples, like the Iron Works House in Saugus, Massachesetts (an almost perfect location when one considers that Maine was still part of MA during this period), had additions built after the intial construction, making those examples large enough to encompass what most of us would envision as the Old House:

The back facade

But its biggest problem is VERY low ceilings. Check out this picture of the the second story chamber (which would have been used for receiving honored guests). Would we really want to have Barnabas living in an environment such as this? I wouldn't. Which leads me to the second design possibility:

Georgian Style (1700-1780)

• 1) Paneled door with decorative crown
• 2) Cornice emphasized with toothlike or dentils or other decorative molding
• 3) Windows with double-hung sashes, typically with six to twelve small panes per sash
• 4) windows in symmetrical vertical rows around central door

Yes, this is very similar to Federal, and that should be no surprise because Federal evolved out of Georgian. And, yes, Georgian does feature a front facade with a symmetrical arrangement of windows around a central door, which is BORING in my opinion. (Sorry, Rainey, but "soothing" just doesn't do it for me. I much prefer bold and daring, and something that completely captivates my attention because when I look at it from different angles it can look almost completely different.  ) But the nice thing about Georgian is, as exemplified by Lee House (click here for a shot taken from above and to the house's right side), which is located in Marblehead, Massachusetts (another almost perfect location), it isn't always entirely symmetrical on all sides:

The back facade

and the interiors are often quite wonderful. Check out:

The Main Hall, with its lavish use of spiral balusters, and large expanses of hand-painted scenic wallpapers, which allow Lee House to be considered one of the grandest Georgian spaces in all of New England (the open two-story design and the way the second floor railing overlooks the first are somewhat reminiscent of the design of the '91 series' great hall)
The stairway landing
The Great Chamber, featuring scenes of classical ruins, each surrounded by an elaborate painted "frame"
and the Great Room, which is completely paneled in pine, features an elaborate chimneypiece whose design was taken from an English pattern book.

I can easily picture the Collins family, and Barnabas in particular, inhabiting any of these rooms.    And truthfully, Georgian looks very much like the design for the Spratt house, minus the surrounding colonnade and porch.

[Connie]

Hmm.  I can't see Barnabas living in either of these places.  The front view of the Iron Works House, maybe.  But those ceilings have got to go.  Both houses are too boxy.  From the outside, that Lee House looks like a town hall.  Granted, the rooms are beautiful.
Ya know, I couldn't get with Lyndhurst as Collinwood in House of DS.  They just didn't look right living there.  I can't get away from the Old House and Collinwood sets on the show.  There's an intimacy to the rooms that is lacking in these huge rooms at these "real houses".

Is there NO way that someone in New England in the 1700's would have decided to build themselves a house that looks like the Old House?  I know nothing about architectural history.

 

[dom]

I can't get away from the Old House and Collinwood sets on the show.  There's an intimacy to the rooms that is lacking in these huge rooms at these "real houses".

I know what you mean, Connie. I was totally bummed about  seeing the Collins' in a "strange" house when I saw HODS as a kid.

For me, personally, video creates intimacy and warmth, whereas film creates distance and detachment.

[Gerard]

Even to this day, I'm amazed at the detail they used for the sets on the original.  The rooms appeared real and lived-in.  Even Buffy's apartment in PT1970 looked like a place in which she resided, with stuff scattered around and - for what I think was the only time we saw one - a television set!  When one considers that these sets quite often had to be assembled and then disassembled day-by-day, it was quite an accomplishment for the set director and crew.  Even if the writers could not remember important factors in preceding storylines to allow for continuity, those crewmen recalled exactly where that copy of Redbook or whatever was on the coffee table five days before, even if between shootings the set had been completely taken down and stored away.

Gerard

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Both houses are too boxy.

Well, as I said, if one was to strip away the columns and the porch from the Spratt house, it would have been just as boxy as any house built in the Georgian style:

In fact, it would have been far less interesting than the Lee House.

Is there NO way that someone in New England in the 1700's would have decided to build themselves a house that looks like the Old House?  I know nothing about architectural history.

It would have been extremely unlikely. Throughout the 17th, 18th and early 19th centuries, colonial architecture was firmly based in the current styles in England. Even after independence, everyone still looked to England for matters of styles and taste. It actually took the devastating War of 1812 (during which, the British troops burned down the new capital city of Washington) to create a distaste for borrowed English culture.
Thomas Jefferson was basically the first to begin departing from English influenced architecture when he designed and began building Monticello (in Virginia) in 1769 - and even at that, the building as we're familiar with it today wasn't completed until 1823 (he was continually making changes and additions). Jefferson ushered in the Early Classical Revival (also referred to as Jeffersonian Classical) style, which spanned a period from 1770 through 1830. (Believe it or not, there are actually exact mathematical rules and "correct" ratios for each part of the classical orders and for how they're applied to buildings of different size, shape and function - but I digress.  ) Jefferson not only designed houses for his friends, but his political influence was able to insure that many buildings in Washington, D.C. were designed in the same style. Classical Revival never acheived the wide popularity of the Federal style (which was based on the British Adam style), but it did pave the way for the Greek Revival style, which spanned 1825 through 1860, and which dominated American Building from 1830 to 1850, and which Spratt House was an excellent example. However, according to the original backstory for Collinsport, the viliage was founded in the late 17th century - about 150 years before Greek Revival came into vogue!    (Not to mention, Collinwood was completed in 1795!)

Ya know, I couldn't get with Lyndhurst as Collinwood in House of DS.  They just didn't look right living there.  I can't get away from the Old House and Collinwood sets on the show.  There's an intimacy to the rooms that is lacking in these huge rooms at these "real houses".

If it wasn't for a few lines of dialogue from NoDS and the fact that the "flashback" period took place in 1810, Lyndhurst as Collinwood and the Schoales Estate as the Old House would have made sense in the DS films. I've only seen photos of the Schoales Estate, but to me it looks like the house falls into the Early Classical style. It may not have been the original home of the Collinses in Collinsport, but at least its style predates Lyndhurst's Gothic Revival style, which spanned 1840 through 1880. However, as she's giving Quentin and Tracy the tour of the house upon their initial arrival, Carlotta explains to them (in unscripted dialogue, mind you) that,  "Collinwood was built by Joshua Collins in the late 1600s." HUH?!    If Collinwood had been built that early, why the hell was there a need for the Old House - and what the hell year was it supposedly built? But no matter what the answers to those questions might be, there's no way in hell a Gothic Revival house would have been built in the 1600s or a Classical Revival house would have been built in the 1600s prior to a 1600s construction of Collinwood. But hey, why should the houses in the movies make any more sense than most of the other things in the original DS universe? 

[Gerard]

When HarperCollins launched the new DS book series, I wrote a first draft of a novel that I pondered submitting to them.  It was set in 2000, a where-are-they-now story, and in my pondering, I stated that the Old House had been designed by a student of Christopher Wren, trying to make its design look like something he would conjure up.  If one would extend his/her imagination, by the appearance of the Old House (and considering the era of the 17th century), it could work with some credible historocity.

Gerard