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As for the house they'll use as Collinwood - I think I miight actually be anticipating learning that news more than I am learning who'll be cast in the remaining roles. ;)
What are you hoping for, exactly? Historical accuracy? I'm not sure WHAT a rich man's house would have looked like in 1790's Maine....but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have looked anything like the one used for the original series. And despite being called a "gothic" soap opera, gothic architecture didn't become popular in the States until the mid-19th century.
Of course, there's always Second Empire....the quintisential "haunted house"....mansard roofs and French doors. That's MY favorite style of house and I'd love to see it....but it certainly wouldn't be correct for the time Collinwood was built.
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What are you hoping for, exactly? Historical accuracy? I'm not sure WHAT a rich man's house would have looked like in 1790's Maine
If we're talking the more popular styles the New England mansions were built in in the 1790s, then definitely a big NO!
The two most popluar styles were the Federal (1780-1820):
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/ARCH09.JPG)(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/ARCH10.JPG)
- 1) Semicircular or elliptical fanlight over paneled door
- 2) Cornice emphasized with toothlike dentils or other decorative moldings
- 3) Windows with double-hung (upper and lower) sashes, typically with six panes per sash
- 4) windows in symmetrical vertical rows around central door
and Early Classical Revival (1770-1830):
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/ARCH11.JPG)
- 1) facade dominated by entry porch with four columns
- 2) Semicircular or elliptical fanlight over paneled door
- 3) windows in symmetrical vertical rows around central door
In most instances, the Federal facade is way too uninteresting for my taste. Early Classical Revial is a bit more interesting - but my main problem with both is the symmetry of everything around the central door. BORING! Also, the interiors of both styles are generally way too plain. But the worst part about both is that neither design was used to build a mansion of the magnitude we associate with Collinwood and its closed off wings filled with secrets just waiting to spring out at us. [wink2]
but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have looked anything like the one used for the original series.
Well, it is and it isn't. Seaview is patterned after a French chateau rather than an English or Colonial design. Who can say for sure if someone like Joshua Collins would have actually gone with something French rather than English? (Though, considering the attitudes he displays in the 1795 storyline, I'd be inclined to say no. ;)) But the style isn't wholely inappropriate for something that might have been built in the 1790s. And truthfully, some of the house's actual interiors were taken from 17th century European mansions - something I suspect Joshua might have definitely done. And, of course, we have to remember that when they chose Seaview, the original backstory was that Jeremiah had built Collinwood for Josette back in the 1830s, which would have not only made its design more period appropriate but a whole lot more plausible. But once the decision was made to shift the backstory to 1795 and completely drop the Josette angle, they couldn't very well find a completely new house to stand in as Collinwood. ;)
Outside of the shear magnitude of the house, one of my favorite aspects of it is that no one could ever say that Seaview has a symmetrical desgin. And that brings me to a style that I think would certainly be appropriate for Collinwood - and that's English Tudor.
Say what you will about the LA location for the '91 series, but Greystone, with its classic Tudor design:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/ARCH08.JPG)
- 1) facade dominated by one or more prominent cross gables, sometimes with half-timbering
- 2) massive chimneys, commonly crowned by decorative chimney pots
- 3) tall, narrow windows, commonly in multiple groups and with multipane glazing
- 4) steeply pitched roof, usually side-gabled
- 5) entry has round arch or flattened, pointed arch
was a perfect choice for Collinwood - particularly when one realizes that Barnabas explained during his first visit to the family that the house was actually built on the moors near Lime Regis on the southwest coast of England, disassemled, transported piece by piece and loaded aboard ships, and sailed to Collinsport, where it was reassembled. I felt that opened a whole slew of storyline opportunities, possibly dating as far back as the 15th and 16th centuries. But alas...
My hope, though, is that the WB DS will have a similar backstory for Collinwood. And if so, I'm hoping that they might go with a slightly different Tudor design - one similar to the 65 room Stan Hywet Hall (http://www.hjnieman.com/moss30.JPG) (which, unfortuantely for DS' filming puposes, is located in Akron, Ohio):
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/ARCH07.JPG)
According to the book Great American Houses and their Archetectural styles (which Midnite kindly gifted me with because she knows one of my hobbies is studying archetecture - hence my keen interest in what type of house will be chosen as Collinwood), this house was patterned after three Tudor mansions in England: Ockwells Manor (http://www.conncoll.edu/ccacad/eng309/tudor/106.gif) in Bershire (c. 1450), Compton Wynyates (http://willowpress.co.uk/images/450/building50306.jpg) in Warwickshire (c. 1500), and Haddon Hall (http://www.dlc.fi/~hurmari/img0034.jpg) in Derbyshire (c. 1550). One of the reasons I love the style of this house as one that has great potential for Collinwood is because it combines aspects of both Seaview and Lyndhurst into a wholely appropriate design style:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/ARCH01.JPG)
A partial view of the front facade
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/ARCH02.JPG)
A partial view of the back facade
The interiors of Stan Hywet Hall are even the way I picture Collinwood could easily look. Check out:
The tower stairs (http://www.dsboards.com/clw/ARCH04.JPG), where one can easily imagine Barnabas' portrait hanging in place of the one there
The Great Hall (http://www.dsboards.com/clw/ARCH05.JPG), which is slightly reminiscent of the set built for the '91 series and the drawing room at Seaview (right down to the moose (at Seaview - elk or whatever here) head)
The dining room (http://www.dsboards.com/clw/ARCH06.JPG), with a ceiling that's very similar to one at Seaview
and The breakfast room (http://www.dsboards.com/clw/ARCH03.JPG).
And even though this particular house is located in Ohio, there are mansions in the LA area that have an extremely similar style. I've seen them used as locations in such series as Murder She Wrote and The Father Dowling Mysteries. IMHO, we should only be so lucky as to find out that a house similar to this is playing the part of our beloved Collinwood. ;)
Of course, there's always Second Empire....the quintisential "haunted house"....mansard roofs and French doors. That's MY favorite style of house and I'd love to see it....but it certainly wouldn't be correct for the time Collinwood was built.
No, but I love that style too. We have several wonderful examples of Second Empire homes in the city I live in. When I actually had more free time (think BI - Before Internet ;)) and did volunteer work for the local Architectual Society, I used to love to lead tours through them as well as others in the city. Alas, those days are a thing of the past... (Though I did get to meet and watch Aerosmith shoot a video in a local church the society was involved in saving, and which, I'm happy to say, has since been completely restored and turned into an incredible banquet hall because its administration building has been restored/coverted into a culinary arts school.)
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Is a house in the Norman/French Chateau style actually historically accurate for New England in the late 18th Century? My first thought would be....how did they get any part of it dismantled, crated and shipped....in the middle of the French Revolution?
At the same time, I don't think we're hoping for historical accuracy....that would indeed be the Federal style, and while I completely disagree with your take on symmetry (it is NOT boring....it's pleasing to the eye and psychologically soothing) it doesn't make for a good setting for the supernatural.
Collinwood would almost certainly be a bit of a hodge-podge. One house, in the hands of the same family for 200 years couldn't HELP but be a standing history of architectural styles over the course of its life. The real determining factor would have been who was in charge when rennovations became neccesary, and who held the purse-strings when the family fortunes rose enough to warrant adding on to the house.
Regarding what they might choose for the new series.....well, I honestly think that decision is more likely to be about what they think the audience will respond to, than what might actually be the right choice for historical or architectural considerations. Let's just consider ourselves lucky if it isn't a Villa in Tuscany..... ;)
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I love MB's idea of an ancient house being re-built. The old houses I have seen here in Maine are simple colonials with clapboards and shutters(very no frills in keeping with its puritan roots) Architecture in Maine didn't get interesting until the Victorian era. Of course, over the years people have remuddled them with siding and bizarre additions. My husband is an architect and we were interested in an old house that used to be a tavern. He said the grand staircase in the entry hall went no where. It ended abruptly half way up because a closet was built upstairs. The only way upstairs was in the kitchen. The windows were all painted shut. He tried to open one of the windows and cut his hand. I told him the house was telling him to get out.
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Wow, MB!
Thanks for posting the pictures. That Hywet House is the most perfect place for Collinwood. What a beautiful house!!! Can't wait to visit the links of the interior later on. (Duty calls, damn it) :P
-CLC
In the mood for architecture
[thumb]
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HI MB thanks for the pics as well, I would love
to live in Hewyett Hall my what a goregous looking
house!!!
YUMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love Anne 8) ;) ;D :D :-* :P
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Absolutely fascinating thread!
I'm looking forward to studying the information here more closely ... I had questioned the authenticity of the traditional Collinwood house (both Seaview Terrace and Lyndhurst) for late 1700s Maine, of course, but hadn't looked into it beyond that. I've also wondered if the Spratt House (?) - Old House - might not be somewhat closer a possibility for the time period.
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I always thought that exteriour shot of the Old House always looked like something from the deep South, rather than New England.
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I happened upon pictures of the Hywet House while looking up some architectural info for Labyrinth of Souls. Talk about the perfect design for Collinwood.... wow. I think you're quite right, MB, about it combining elements similar to both Seaview and Lyndhurst to excellent effect. I don't suppose they'll be sending crews to Ohio, alas...
There's a superb view here that might be reminiscent of the Collinwood pic above...
http://ianadamsphotography.bizland.com/store/media/architecture_wsgashol.jpg (http://ianadamsphotography.bizland.com/store/media/architecture_wsgashol.jpg)
--Mark
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I don't suppose they'll be sending crews to Ohio, alas...
I would hope for their sake that they've already chosen a location (or locations, as sometimes shows will use one site for a house's exteriors and another for its interiors). True, it's looking more and more like they'll never meet that starting date of March 22nd (well, unless additional casting has been completed and it just hasn't been reported yet), but one would hope they'd be ready just in case. ;)
There's a superb view here that might be reminiscent of the Collinwood pic above...
Yes. I almost posted a link to that photo too, but I figured I'd posted enough links and photos for one day. ;) I also came across one that shows one of the wings (http://culture.ohio.gov/a/hywetL.gif) that isn't seen in the pictures I did post - and which also shows a Christmas wreath hanging on the side of the building. Talk about a site we're never likely to see no matter what house actually ends up playing Collinwood on the WB DS! [lghy]
I also tortured myself (tortured because Stan Hywet Hall isn't likely to ever be Collinwood :() by visiting the Official Web site (http://www.stanhywet.org/).
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MB, thanks for all this information! Extremely interesting stuff. The pictures make things a lot clearer for me (what I know about late 18th century architecture you could put in a thimble).
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I love MB's idea of an ancient house being re-built. The old houses I have seen here in Maine are simple colonials with clapboards and shutters(very no frills in keeping with its puritan roots) Architecture in Maine didn't get interesting until the Victorian era.
So some fantasy and dreaming will be necessary, if there really were no houses like Collinwood dating from that era in Maine. At least if it's a real looking house in a realistic setting that could at least pass for Maine, we can probably then be happy. In other words, no miniatures with tiny fake shrubbery and fake lightning showing up the miniature's artificialness in the opening credits! No palm trees in the background or even less obvious evidences of California (as some scenes in the 1991 series).
I suppose that's asking for a lot if the show must be filmed in California. Canada has been such a popular location for films in the past few years, and filming somewhere there would no doubt look much more like the Maine woods ... but filming there would be unlikely. I watched "Dolores Claiburne" (sp) again recently and the location filming (in Nova Scotia, I think) was beautiful. Would be curious how similar that was to Maine. Was surprised watching the new version of "Dangerous Liaisons" this week at some of the scenery that was supposed to be the south of France -- it was gorgeous, but it didn't look like France to me (not that I've seen all of France). Turns out much of it was filmed in Scotland, as well as Montreal!
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TBH, filming in California is much less of a setback than it was in 1991. With computer technology light years ahead now, it'd be very easy to grade sunlight away to make things look moodier, paint out any pesky palm trees and add overcast skies.
Nowadays, the only limit to a show's visuals in that respect is its designer's imagination :)
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I've always wanted to ask-- Have palm trees really been spotted in the '91 series? I've watched it 3 times and never noticed any, but then again palm trees don't stand out for me since I, you know, see them all the time. :D
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It's not just you, Midnite. I've watched the '91 series 4 times and I've never spotted a palm tree either. But then, I'm too involved with and get lost in the actors' performances, the story, Cobert's wonderful score, and the general production values to notice much of anything else. :)
I don't deny they might be there (and if they are, I'm sure someone will be only too happy to tell us where and when ;)) - but at the same time, I have no inclination to look for them...
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I've never spotted one myself, but I seem to remember someone saying that some are visible from Joe's boat whenever it appears. My concern about California was the very bright sunshine that appeared on occasion, something which no amount of atmospheric mist could cover up.
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Oh, yes, those palm trees are there. I don't know why, but they just drove me crazy. They're clearly visible when Joe is pulling his boat out of the harbor; those are burned into my memory, and I think there are others as well, including small, in-planters varieties of palms outdoors at Collinwood. Brian DePalma's 1976 Carrie, likewise set in Maine, was also filmed in California, and one can spot the occasional palm tree rising up in the background.
Gerard
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What I'd like to ask is....why wasn't New York City considered the right place to produce the new Dark Shadows? It WAS originally a NYC production.
The Gold Coast of Long Island surely could have produced at least one mansion to provide exteriors....Oheka Castle comes to mind...being a Norman/French Chateau design, like Seaview, only larger....and there wouldn't be a palm tree in sight!!
(I tried for half an hour to get one of the Oheka sites to display but I couldn't....)
And with 1100 miles of coastline, I'm sure SOME local village could stand in for Collinsport.
And needless to say, there would be no paucity of talent, technical expertise, or studio space.
Except for the convenience of the major players who all live in Los Angeles, what is there that makes LA a better choice?
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They're clearly visible when Joe is pulling his boat out of the harbor
Thank you! I'll have to watch for that. With Michael T. Weiss on the screen, I'm surprised I even recognized San Pedro much less notice any trees. Thanks again.
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Ok, here is a small palm tree that I found in my pictures from last year's picnic on the 1991 Collinwood set "Greystone." It's to the right behind the gate. But it's not tall enough really to cause too much trouble. Most of the property appears to be lined with oaks trees (native to California) and Eucalyptus trees (native to Australia-imported because they don't burn too easily). Many colorful birds also reside there.
(http://victoriawinters.net/boards/IMG0043-2.jpg)
By the way, there is a creepy story attached to this house. The original owner was Edward Doheny, oil tycoon. Edward Doheny was involved with bribery charges in the infamous Teapot Dome scandal, and his son's life ended in a bizarre murder-suicide at the home. Some say it's haunted.
Eventually, the property was willed to the City of Beverly Hills. It's used in many films and TV shows.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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Ok, here is a small palm tree that I found in my pictures from last year's picnic on the 1991 Collinwood set "Greystone." It's to the right behind the gate. But it's not tall enough really to cause too much trouble.
Very interesting, vw. I wonder how long that palm has been there? And the reason I wonder is because in the film/tv industry, Greystone had always advertsed itself as one of the very few Southern California locations without any palm trees on its grounds - and thus a perfect location to fill in for places like New England and even England.
Back in the '70s (those ancient times before the Internet ;)) when I subscribed to Daily Vartiety (as opposed to simply being able to access both the NY and LA versions from their Web site :)) I read an article extolling the great locations Southern California offers, and Greystone was one of them. After Greystone was announced as the '91 series "Collinwood," I dug up/shared the article with a few of the DS fanzines. I don't know if any of them ever published the Greystone excerpts from it (because, except for SG, I let all my DS fanzine subsciptions expire shortly thereafter (a too long, too boring, and too OT story to go into here)), but If I can dig the article up again (which I'm sure I can), I'll post it here...
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What I'd like to ask is....why wasn't New York City considered the right place to produce the new Dark Shadows? It WAS originally a NYC production.
I think this article might go a long way in explaining that, which is why I've decided to share more of it than just the Greystone excerpt. The article may be from 1975, but very little has changed so far as the industry is concerned.
Daily Variety: 42nd Anniversary Issue - October 28, 1975
'A Rock Is A Rock. A Tree Is A Tree. Shoot It In Griffith Park' -- Stern Brothers.
The World In Hollywood's Backyard by Tony Scott
If the leaves rocks and buildings of Southern California could be organized into a union, they'd doubtlessly form the largest and hardest working labor organization in the motion picture industry. Some of them have been employed since the infant days of the business; others are still trying out as apprentices -- and more are yet to be discovered.
Taken as a whole, the location facilities in the environs of Hollywood are unmatched in the world -- because they are the world. Within instant reach are Europe, Africa, the Orient and the South Pacific. Timelocks open and close on both the past and future. World War II is preserved in the tower and swastika-side planes on Van Nuys Airport. The dismal future of "Soylent Green" turns up in the Hyperion sewers.
They exist for make-believe and romance. Yet they are depended upon by filmakers for their most base, fundamental and practical values. Griffith Park may be a cliche by now. But when the script for "I Will, I Will ... For Now" called for a wooded wedding scene in a Georgetown park, good old Griffith Park stood in and nobody but the gardeners will know the difference.
With a renewed emphasis on soundstage shooting, the proximity of nearby location sites has also assumed fresh importance. When "The Sunshine Boys" determined to re-create New York City on the MGM lot, the crew stayed as close to home as possible for as many shots as possible -- and L.A. City Hall becomes a Gotham hospital.
To be sure, feature film directors will venture many miles in search of authenticty, a fresh look -- or to escape the constant watch of the front office. But even a distant project like "Jaws" comes home to Universal eventually for postproduction and finds that Catalina Island is handy for additional shooting.
While the heftier budgets of theatrical releases may provide more freedom for the restless, the grind of tv production is almost totally dependent on the diversity of Southern California. Fortunately, the small screen allows directors to stretch small budgets in ingenious ways. And despite the fact that a dozen or motre tv crews may be shooting locally on any given day, they continue to surprise themselves in finding new looks in old surroundings. Like a musician restricted to 88 piano keys, they nonetheless find new variations on many themes -- and sometimes an entirely new creation.
Except for a few establishing shots, the streets of San Francisco in "Ironside" were the streets of L.A. Change a few license plates and keep the cameras off the tops of buildings and "Kojak" transforms L.A. into N.Y. Like the trees of Griffith Park, a skyscraper door looks the same the world over.
In tv, travel usually equals peril. For its opening season, Warner Brother picked San Diego as the home base for "Harry O." Not Rome or London or Pago Pago, just San Diego, a relatively short distance down the freeway. But within the reaches of the Screen Extras Guild. So on top of the $140 per extra for a day's filming, the company had to pay transportation the day before, a hotel for the night, meals, a second day's pay, and possibly a second night's lodging.
Speaking of the experiment, "Harry O" exec producer Jerry Thorpe notes, "San Diego is a terribly photogenic city. But it is prohobitive financially. In fact, it is prohibitive to work on distant locations. It is very expensive working away, with labor problems, casting problems." In short, "Harry O" hurried home to Hollywood.
Universal TV prez Frank Price added another reason: "When we go off to distant locations, what happens so often is that last-minute polishing on the script is eliminated. Another thing, too, you're reduced to using cast members from that location, and you haven't the control. You have to take your principals, which presents another set of problems."
George Santori, Universal v.p., notes also that not having enough money in the budget to be able to afford those far locations can be a blessing, since no decision has to be made and the director, or creator, must work out his film on the conditions imposed by local locationing and backlot shooting.
Anyway, Santori says, "There is nothing you can't duplicate here except big cities like Paris and London. You can't get long shots of places like that, or Big Ben, or the Champs-Elysees with your people on the sidewalks."
Scenes are secondary to people, Price insists, echoing an additional management fear that "directors have a tendency , if they reach such places, to shoot postcards."
The cautious producer insists the same postcard can be created without the cost of the postmark. The at-hand locale, assisted by the marvels of modern film technology, mattes, processing and camera "cheating" can bring worlds to the screen without travelling great distances. With perseverance, indulgence, imagination, faith, stock film, confidence, ingenuity, experience and luck, producers find that Hollywood still serves as much as it did in the 1920s when MGM's "Ben Hur" returned from dallying in Rome and Egypt and got down to business in a colseum constructed in a vacant lot at La Cienega and Venice Blvd.
...
"In television, when you're dealing with such a little screen, you don't need a vista. Mostly you use a closeup or a two-shot -- you don't have to have 360 degrees of scope. ..."
...
Southern California offers a seemingly inexhaustible supply of homes -- old and new -- for film use. Typical is Greystone Manor, part of Greystone Park and onetime Doheny estate lying above Sunset Blvd. in Beverly Hills. Now the berth of the American Film Institute, Greystone offers an opulent appearance for exteriors and interiors.
One of its chief assets, unusual for its Southern California locale, is the total absence of palm trees on its 18 1/2 acres, making the Manor a likely stand-in for luxurious European residences. Originally constructed from 1925 to 1928, the house cost $4,000,000 and would require almost $20,000,000 to duplicate today. [/b][MB note: that was in 1975 - just think of what it would cost to build now!]
The interior, which the Beverly Hills Chamber of Commerce Visitors' Bureau is helping to refurbish and refurnish by conducting weekend tours, has 55 rooms and includes marble floors, hand-carved stairways and handrails, and rare woods which studio technicians would find impossible to duplicate.
The forecourt, which has been used for innumerable commercials, particularly automobiles, is sturdy and in keeping with the rest of the Tudor edifice. An episode of "Columbo," which went to England last year for exteriors, used Greystone for many interior shots.
A part of the Beverly Hills Park Dept., the handsome structure and grounds are available with a permit at all times for filmmakers. A split-fee arrangement between Beverly Hills and Greystone can be arranged, and the interior of the mansion must be returned to its original condition by the filmmakers.
Formal gardens, a swimming pool, wooded areas, orchards, lawns and walkways offer superb scenery for films requiring luxurious settings. A minimum of telephone poles and only a single, albeit enormous, television antenna rests on the roof of the manor.
Greystone is accessible, and its unique appearance suggests faraway places with sweet sounding names. "We did 'The Woman I Love' locally, and that had an extremely good look," says Universal's Frank Price.
Despite the difficulties involved in filming the exterior -- the trees and foliage are all but impenetrable for the lens, so the magnitude and the handsome architecural advantages of the house are lost behind the greenery -- there are good vistas and excellent interiors useful to the creator who seeks European elegance on the palace level.
Even after the '91 DS was canceled, I'd videotaped several of Greystone's "appearances" because I was (still am) fascinated by its architectural design. Two of the last that feature shots of the gatehouse/driveway were a '92 commercial (that I happened to get while taping something entirely different) for the '93 Infiniti J30 and the ABC Made for TV movie, "My Brother's Wife," from '93. I just checked the tapes, and the palm in vw's photo is nowhere in evidence - though it's certainly possible that it was there but was simply too small. ;)
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I'm afraid I don't agree with you that little has changed since this article was written. Americans have traveled so widely in the last 30 years that there can't be many folks left who couldn't tell you when a scene was really shot in Europe and when it was shot in "Griffith Park" as the saying goes.
For the same reason, do you really think anyone would produce something like "Law and Order" anywhere other than New York City itself? Obviously, it mattered to the creators that the City should be a character in the story. How else could you do that, except to actually shoot IN THE STREETS, with traffic being detoured around the actors?...you couldn't possibly re-create that anywhere else and not have the audience catch on.
On the other hand, computer generated images have become so ubiquitous that not only do we not expect the places to really be where they imply....we don't even expect them to be real at all. And in that case, does it matter if the computers are in California, New York, or Ohio?
T.V. series are shot in LA out of complacency......it's easy, it's convenient, everything is already in place, the whole town exists for the purpose of producing T.V. shows and movies. Why re-invent the wheel?...why complicate the process?...why risk spending more money than you need to?
And they wonder why it's so difficult to get an audience fired up about new shows..... ::)
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WOW! Who knew there was such a house in Akron? I'm from Dayton (originally--and long ago) and have been through Akron a few times--never guessing that "Collinwood" might exist in Ohio.
Great pics, too.
Now, just for trivia (and I don't feel like looking through all my DS-related books--someone else may know) somewhere, sometime I recall reading that Sam Hall's family was from Ohio, and I think it was Akron. Yes? No? ::)
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do you really think anyone would produce something like "Law and Order" anywhere other than New York City itself? Obviously, it mattered to the creators that the City should be a character in the story. How else could you do that, except to actually shoot IN THE STREETS, with traffic being detoured around the actors?
You're absolutely right that NYC is a character in Law and Order and such an intergral part of the show that it probablty couldn't be shot elsewhere. However...
you couldn't possibly re-create that anywhere else and not have the audience catch on.
...I don't necessarily know about that. Yes, NYPD Blue does *some* location shooting in NYC, but for the most part it's shot in LA - some of it's even shot on a backlot - and I don't think most fans of that show think it's any less authentic than if the series was completely shot in NY. I know not actually being shot in Boston, a city I'm very familiar with, hasn't in any way diminished my enjoyment of shows like The Practice or Crossing Jordan.
But really, that wasn't the point I was trying to make about why most shows are shot in LA rather than on location. The choice often has much more to do with the behind the scenes issues like budget, cast, union rules, or simply the fact that the producer and/or studio wants it that way. In a perfect world, every series would and could be shot where it's actually supposed to take place. But for the most part, that simply isn't as feasible as we might think...
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WOW! Who knew there was such a house in Akron? I'm from Dayton (originally--and long ago) and have been through Akron a few times--never guessing that "Collinwood" might exist in Ohio.
OK - now I'm really jealous that you might actually get to see Stan Hywet Hall in person one day, while the likelihood of my passing anywhere near it is slim to none. ;)
I recall reading that Sam Hall's family was from Ohio, and I think it was Akron. Yes? No? ::)
Ohio - definitely. Akron - he may have lived there at one point; I'm not familiar enough with his life to know for sure; but I believe his family was from Carrollton.
Someone like Gothick can probably supply more detailed info. ;)
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What do I know from palm trees, but that looks like some type of fern to me - in victoriawinters' picture.
The type you wouldn't see growing outdoors in the east - you need warmth year round. I don't know.
When I was in LA the foliage seemed a lot different than in the east. Actually, it seemed like I was on another planet. (in more ways than one) [lghy] Oy.....
Interesting article, MB. Interesting article, interesting pictures, interesting thread!
[grinb]
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I felt sure that the much of the lush foliage (and manicured grounds) as well as the intensity of the direct sunlight contributed to my sense of a California feeling to the 91 series. VictoriaWinter's mention of eucalyptus trees on the estate, Connie's observance of the ferns, and Stuart's reference to California's sunshine reinforce those impressions.
I also felt that both the exterior and interior sets of Collinwood didn't ring true to the Maine setting but I don't have any more specifics on that other than general impression.
Now, I love California and I don't mean to be hypercritical. I know the show is a fantasy, but a little more grounding in reality for locations and sets would be a plus for me as a viewer.
Sometimes even on-location shooting doesn't produce the desired result. For example I was an extra in "Untamed Heart," filmed in Minnesota. There was a scene that was supposed to be winter when Christian Slater was selling Christmas trees. I think the producers thought that Minnesota must always be cold and icy, but that scene was filmed in the fall and Slater is clearly sweating in the hot sunlight with his stocking cap.
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The plant in the photo is either a palm or a cycad-- it's hard to say which without seeing more of it-- but it does scream "tropical!"
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A bit of an aside regarding the use of digitizing effects, etc.
Although the advances in technology have brought many new possibilities to today's filmmaking one does feel a sense of loss in realism too.
That thought comes to mind now because I've been re-watching the 1967 Bondarchuk film of "War and Peace," where attention to detail and realism reached its zenith in a manner that will never be done again. Filming took five years and in today's costs would be over 1 billion dollars. Recreate a battle with 120,000 soldiers? Bondarchek GOT 120,000 Russian soldiers, and every uniform was custom made down to the buttons; real artillery was used, the battle was recreated from the historical records, and filming was on the actual battlefield location. A bean field was replaced with a wheat field because the original field was a wheat field.
That kind of realism can never be replicated by digitization, FX, what have you.
I know, I know, we're talking TV budgets and so back to the reality of today's TV production ...
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Originally constructed from 1925 to 1928, the house cost $4,000,000 and would require almost $20,000,000 to duplicate today. [/b][MB note: that was in 1975 - just think of what it would cost to build now!]
That's provided the neighbors would even let you build! They have gotten very snotty there about that now. Also, I'll bet part of the property is now part of the Santa Monica Mountain Conservancy.
Even after the '91 DS was canceled, I'd videotaped several of Greystone's "appearances" because I was (still am) fascinated by its architectural design. Two of the last that feature shots of the gatehouse/driveway were a '92 commercial (that I happened to get while taping something entirely different) for the '93 Infiniti J30 and the ABC Made for TV movie, "My Brother's Wife," from '93. I just checked the tapes, and the palm in vw's photo is nowhere in evidence - though it's certainly possible that it was there but was simply too small. ;)
It's just barely showing above the fence. Quite frankly, it's very out of place to the rest of the property. It must be something that appeared recently. I'm even surprised I found it in my photos. It's not that tall to have been there long. Palm trees grow really quickly. It could also be a sucker from someone else's yard nearby.
The plant in the photo is either a palm or a cycad-- it's hard to say which without seeing more of it-- but it does scream "tropical!"
I'll have to look very carefully at the property at this year's picnic and see if it's still there. I'll reshoot the gate again and see if there is a difference. They were doing renovation up there while I was there last year. Could have explained that plant there and why it wasn't immediately removed.[/size][/color][/FONT]
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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The plant in the photo is either a palm or a cycad-- it's hard to say which without seeing more of it-- but it does scream "tropical!"
What's a cycad? Is that a plant or a tree?
You know what else they have to be careful about when filming something in California that's supposed to take place in the east? The time of day at the ocean. I've noticed on more than one occasion on film, it's supposed to be sunset in the east and they've got the sun setting over the ocean. LOL
Sun setting over the ocean at Collinwood would NOT be a good idea! [lghy]
It's supposed to go THIS way.....
Sunrise at the Jersey shore:
(http://home.earthlink.net/~lightdance/images/sunrise.jpg)
Sun setting over the dunes (looking west):
(http://home.earthlink.net/~lightdance/images/sunset.jpg)
[gring]
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What's a cycad? Is that a plant or a tree?
Cycads are palm-like tropical plants. The most well-known is the sago palm (confusing, I know).
[ psst, trees are plants (http://www.dsboards.com/dsb05/YaBBImages/wink_2.gif) ]
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Connie, I forgot about the sunset. I live on the East Coast now but was born and lived 30 years in California. My husband's friends from New Jersey had sent some photos from the beach and I asked why everyone was sunbathing facing the parking lot. I figured people from New Jersey didn't like the view of the ocean. ::) My husband laughed at me and explained about the sunrise, sunset thing. :-[
I was at a place here in Maine called Sebasco(sp) Resorts. I am not sure of the exact location but we went through Bath. The atmosphere was perfect. Eventhough it was summer, it was cold, damp and misty. Patchy fog rolled in off the ocean. Couldn't they get shots like that in Carmel, California?
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OK - now I'm really jealous that you might actually get to see Stan Hywet Hall in person one day, while the likelihood of my passing anywhere near it is slim to none. ;)
Don't be jealous, MB. I've lived in Florida for almost 20 years and rarely go back to the Dayton area--which is about two hours from Akron--except for family stuff. So I certainly have no plans to visit this estate in the near or distant future.
On the other hand, there's a great old house on US 1 between Vero Beach and Fort Pierce (FL) that I'm told was once a winter home for Gloria Swanson sometime during the 1950s or '60s. Prior to that, I believe it was a brothel for servicemen during WWII. Last time I drove by, it was an antique emporium. If I can find some pics, I'll post them. (It would make a great "Old House"--that's why I mentioned it.)
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Did I imagin it or was there something about shooting the series in Vancouver BC? Wonder what suitable houses would be there? I really liked the house they used for that Steven King TV movie Rose Red. But I agree that the Hywett house just looks the part!
Ldyanne
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[ psst, trees are plants (IMG) ]
Uh......um.......this is true! You're absolutely right. LOL
But YOU know what I mean -- a tree -- a big thing with a trunk and bark, as opposed to a bush, or some flowers, or ivy, or whatever. Oh the hell with it. I think I need to read up on tropical plants. I wouldn't know a sago palm if it fell over on me.
All I know is, I've always wanted to live in a tropical paradise, like Bora Bora or something. I absolutely despise the cold.
I bet if the Collins family had lived in Hawaii or some such place, they would have been in a much better mood!!!
[grinb]
Mrs. Johnson answers the door. There stands Barnabas with a big smile on his face.
"Hello! I'm Barnabas Collins - a distant cousin. YOU know.....from the San Diego branch of the family!"
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....I asked why everyone was sunbathing facing the parking lot. I figured people from New Jersey didn't like the view of the ocean. ::)
[lghy] [lghy] [lghy]
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Did I imagin it or was there something about shooting the series in Vancouver BC?
The person behind the barnabasundead Web site stated their own opinion that the pilot might film in Canada. However, all the reports are that it will be shot in and around LA. (Though that news still didn't stop barnabasundead from saying they were still sure it would shoot in Canada (probably because Mark Verheiden's Smallville is shot there). But I suppose the site has given up that idea by now. :))
Speaking of production, the My Entertainment World Web site is STILL listing start of production as the 22nd. Maybe they're going to begin shooting any scenes in which Vicki or Angeliue are alone or ones that they might share (if such scenes even exist), but somehow I very much doubt that. [wink2]
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On the other hand, there's a great old house on US 1 between Vero Beach and Fort Pierce (FL) that I'm told was once a winter home for Gloria Swanson sometime during the 1950s or '60s. Prior to that, I believe it was a brothel for servicemen during WWII. Last time I drove by, it was an antique emporium. If I can find some pics, I'll post them. (It would make a great "Old House"--that's why I mentioned it.)
Sounds really intriguing. I'd love to see it so I hope you can find those pics.
Actually, your post got me to thinking what might the Old House actually look like if it was accurate to the period and built in a "purely American" 17th-to-very-early-18th century design and had not been an amazing precursor to Greek Revival (like the Old House in the original (I love how in Ep #475 Stokes says something to the effect that the Old House is Greek Revival before they got it right. [lghy])) or not based on the design of the Collinwood in England (as was the case in the '91 revival). Two styles come to mind - one that's appropriate but not very practical or likely, and another which could prove quite nice. The first is:
First-Period English Style (1600-1700)
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/OLD01.JPG)
- 1) Massive chimney
- 2) Steeply pitched roof
- 3) One-room depth
- 4) No eave overhang or cornice detailing
- 5) Small casement windows with many small panes
One of the possible problems with this design, though, is feature #3 - the one room depth. However, some examples, like the Iron Works House in Saugus, Massachesetts (an almost perfect location when one considers that Maine was still part of MA during this period), had additions built after the intial construction, making those examples large enough to encompass what most of us would envision as the Old House:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/OLD03.JPG)
The back facade
But its biggest problem is VERY low ceilings. Check out this picture of the the second story chamber (http://www.dsboards.com/clw/OLD02.JPG) (which would have been used for receiving honored guests). Would we really want to have Barnabas living in an environment such as this? I wouldn't. Which leads me to the second design possibility:
Georgian Style (1700-1780)
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/OLD04.JPG)
- 1) Paneled door with decorative crown
- 2) Cornice emphasized with toothlike or dentils or other decorative molding
- 3) Windows with double-hung sashes, typically with six to twelve small panes per sash
- 4) windows in symmetrical vertical rows around central door
Yes, this is very similar to Federal, and that should be no surprise because Federal evolved out of Georgian. And, yes, Georgian does feature a front facade with a symmetrical arrangement of windows around a central door, which is BORING in my opinion. (Sorry, Rainey, but "soothing" just doesn't do it for me. I much prefer bold and daring, and something that completely captivates my attention because when I look at it from different angles it can look almost completely different. [wink2]) But the nice thing about Georgian is, as exemplified by Lee House (click here (http://www.dsboards.com/clw/OLD10.JPG) for a shot taken from above and to the house's right side), which is located in Marblehead, Massachusetts (another almost perfect location), it isn't always entirely symmetrical on all sides:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/OLD09.JPG)
The back facade
and the interiors are often quite wonderful. Check out:
The Main Hall (http://www.dsboards.com/clw/OLD08.JPG), with its lavish use of spiral balusters, and large expanses of hand-painted scenic wallpapers, which allow Lee House to be considered one of the grandest Georgian spaces in all of New England (the open two-story design and the way the second floor railing overlooks the first are somewhat reminiscent of the design of the '91 series' great hall)
The stairway landing (http://www.dsboards.com/clw/OLD07.JPG)
The Great Chamber (http://www.dsboards.com/clw/OLD05.JPG), featuring scenes of classical ruins, each surrounded by an elaborate painted "frame"
and the Great Room (http://www.dsboards.com/clw/OLD06.JPG), which is completely paneled in pine, features an elaborate chimneypiece whose design was taken from an English pattern book.
I can easily picture the Collins family, and Barnabas in particular, inhabiting any of these rooms. ;) And truthfully, Georgian looks very much like the design for the Spratt house, minus the surrounding colonnade and porch.
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Hmm. I can't see Barnabas living in either of these places. The front view of the Iron Works House, maybe. But those ceilings have got to go. Both houses are too boxy. From the outside, that Lee House looks like a town hall. Granted, the rooms are beautiful.
Ya know, I couldn't get with Lyndhurst as Collinwood in House of DS. They just didn't look right living there. I can't get away from the Old House and Collinwood sets on the show. There's an intimacy to the rooms that is lacking in these huge rooms at these "real houses".
Is there NO way that someone in New England in the 1700's would have decided to build themselves a house that looks like the Old House? I know nothing about architectural history.
8)
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I can't get away from the Old House and Collinwood sets on the show. There's an intimacy to the rooms that is lacking in these huge rooms at these "real houses".
I know what you mean, Connie. I was totally bummed about seeing the Collins' in a "strange" house when I saw HODS as a kid.
For me, personally, video creates intimacy and warmth, whereas film creates distance and detachment.
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Even to this day, I'm amazed at the detail they used for the sets on the original. The rooms appeared real and lived-in. Even Buffy's apartment in PT1970 looked like a place in which she resided, with stuff scattered around and - for what I think was the only time we saw one - a television set! When one considers that these sets quite often had to be assembled and then disassembled day-by-day, it was quite an accomplishment for the set director and crew. Even if the writers could not remember important factors in preceding storylines to allow for continuity, those crewmen recalled exactly where that copy of Redbook or whatever was on the coffee table five days before, even if between shootings the set had been completely taken down and stored away.
Gerard
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Both houses are too boxy.
Well, as I said, if one was to strip away the columns and the porch from the Spratt house, it would have been just as boxy as any house built in the Georgian style:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/Original_Old.jpg)
In fact, it would have been far less interesting than the Lee House.
Is there NO way that someone in New England in the 1700's would have decided to build themselves a house that looks like the Old House? I know nothing about architectural history.
It would have been extremely unlikely. Throughout the 17th, 18th and early 19th centuries, colonial architecture was firmly based in the current styles in England. Even after independence, everyone still looked to England for matters of styles and taste. It actually took the devastating War of 1812 (during which, the British troops burned down the new capital city of Washington) to create a distaste for borrowed English culture.
Thomas Jefferson was basically the first to begin departing from English influenced architecture when he designed and began building Monticello (http://www.monticello.org/) (in Virginia) in 1769 - and even at that, the building as we're familiar with it today wasn't completed until 1823 (he was continually making changes and additions). Jefferson ushered in the Early Classical Revival (also referred to as Jeffersonian Classical) style, which spanned a period from 1770 through 1830. (Believe it or not, there are actually exact mathematical rules and "correct" ratios for each part of the classical orders and for how they're applied to buildings of different size, shape and function - but I digress. ;)) Jefferson not only designed houses for his friends, but his political influence was able to insure that many buildings in Washington, D.C. were designed in the same style. Classical Revival never acheived the wide popularity of the Federal style (which was based on the British Adam style), but it did pave the way for the Greek Revival style, which spanned 1825 through 1860, and which dominated American Building from 1830 to 1850, and which Spratt House was an excellent example. However, according to the original backstory for Collinsport, the viliage was founded in the late 17th century - about 150 years before Greek Revival came into vogue! ;) (Not to mention, Collinwood was completed in 1795!)
Ya know, I couldn't get with Lyndhurst as Collinwood in House of DS. They just didn't look right living there. I can't get away from the Old House and Collinwood sets on the show. There's an intimacy to the rooms that is lacking in these huge rooms at these "real houses".
If it wasn't for a few lines of dialogue from NoDS and the fact that the "flashback" period took place in 1810, Lyndhurst as Collinwood and the Schoales Estate as the Old House would have made sense in the DS films. I've only seen photos of the Schoales Estate, but to me it looks like the house falls into the Early Classical style. It may not have been the original home of the Collinses in Collinsport, but at least its style predates Lyndhurst's Gothic Revival style, which spanned 1840 through 1880. However, as she's giving Quentin and Tracy the tour of the house upon their initial arrival, Carlotta explains to them (in unscripted dialogue, mind you) that, "Collinwood was built by Joshua Collins in the late 1600s." HUH?! ??? If Collinwood had been built that early, why the hell was there a need for the Old House - and what the hell year was it supposedly built? But no matter what the answers to those questions might be, there's no way in hell a Gothic Revival house would have been built in the 1600s or a Classical Revival house would have been built in the 1600s prior to a 1600s construction of Collinwood. But hey, why should the houses in the movies make any more sense than most of the other things in the original DS universe? [lghy]
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When HarperCollins launched the new DS book series, I wrote a first draft of a novel that I pondered submitting to them. It was set in 2000, a where-are-they-now story, and in my pondering, I stated that the Old House had been designed by a student of Christopher Wren, trying to make its design look like something he would conjure up. If one would extend his/her imagination, by the appearance of the Old House (and considering the era of the 17th century), it could work with some credible historocity.
Gerard
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Well, as I said, if one was to strip away the columns and the porch from the Spratt house, it would have been just as boxy as any house built in the Georgian style:
(picture)
In fact, it would have been far less interesting than the Lee House.
Ah....I like that picture of the Old House.
Yeah but it doesn't look as boxy because of the columns and the what d'ya call it design along the roof, etc. I've always thought the house was rather unusual because it actually looks like a fairly small house when you take away the grand structure around it. And it sort of fits with the modest size rooms that the sets conveyed. That column between the drawing room and "foyer" also gives the interior an interesting, unique feel. I've never seen a picture of the back of the house. Do any exist? Or any info about what the inside was like?
....It would have been extremely unlikely. Throughout the 17th, 18th and early 19th centuries, colonial architecture was firmly based in the current styles in England.....
Unlikely, but it COULD have happened, right? Like you have some eccentric guy with money who just loved that type of house and decided to build one in Maine??
Thanks for all the historical info. It's interesting. I've now been paying attention to some historical houses about half a mile from me. They were built in the 1700's and 1800's. I think at least one has a plaque that says 1683 or something. They're boxes -- quite uninteresting (at least to me). There's one that appears to be made of cement that's quite stark and grim-looking -- very bland. I can see why the powers that were, chose much grander, more interesting houses for DS.
...Carlotta explains to them (in unscripted dialogue, mind you) that, "Collinwood was built by Joshua Collins in the late 1600s." HUH!! ??? If Collinwood had been built that early, why the hell was there a need for the Old House - and what the hell year was it supposedly built?...
Whoa! ROFL
I never even paid attention to what she was saying. What do you mean unscripted? Someone just threw it in at the last minute?
But hey, why should the houses in the movies make any more sense than most of the other things in the original DS universe? [lghy]
Hmm. Well, it IS sort of important to me. (Why, I don't know).
I guess since there's so much other nonsense and unreality in the show, somehow if everything ELSE were "authentic" it would sort of lend some credence to everything. Does that make any sense?? LOL
[gring]
Funny, it's kind of bumming me out to know that the houses aren't realistic in terms of the timelines in the show.
[7385]
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in my pondering, I stated that the Old House had been designed by a student of Christopher Wren, trying to make its design look like something he would conjure up. If one would extend his/her imagination, by the appearance of the Old House (and considering the era of the 17th century), it could work with some credible historocity.
True, English Renaissance (click here (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Greenwich_Hospital.html) to see Greenwich Hospital) and Greek Revival share a look (think large columns) in common, but that's about it from an architectural standpoint. Also, Wren's work was done in cut stone and bearing masonry. Truthfully, some American Greek Revival houses would actually fall into the category of using some bearing masonry construction (for example, check out Melrose (http://www.nps.gov/natc/), located in Natchez, Mississippi), but most of the examples of Greek Revival that I'm familiar with in the New England area are built of timber. Unfortunately for your theory, Spratt House wasn't built of bearing masonry - well, not in its entirety anyway. I'm not totally sure what the house portion of the building was constructed of - it might have been some sort of masonry - but the colonnade was built of timber (which is also the case with Melrose) - and not the greatest timber at that because, before it burned down, it was already falling apart. All one need do is look at pictures of the colonnade to see that:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/spratt.jpg)
(Though it was certainly a perfect look for the "Old House" - not that we actually got to see it close-up on the show. :()
Saying the designs are not comparable simply on the basis of cut stone/bearing masonry versus timber may seem like spliting hairs. But in architecture, it isn't really. If one were merely going for a "look," one might be able to get away with some sort of Christopher Wren connection, but the reality with Spratt House is very different...
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thought this site offered some interresting period houses http://www.salemweb.com/guide/arch/
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That wood-paneled great room looked very much like Colllinwood's drawing room -- the closest resemblance to Collinwood of any of these lovely photos ...
My reaction to the pic of the Spratt House was the same as Connie's ... is there a source for that photo where one might be able to copy and save it? (This was the shot of the facade seen so often on the show).
I hadn't seen the detail of the disrepair of the colonnade of the Spratt House until seeing this photo so large ...
Also, I second Connie's question -- what did you mean about Grayson Hall/Carlotta's line about Collinwood being built by Joshua in the 1600s as being unscripted?
Ever Curious ...
And thanks for all this great background on architecture and the photos ...
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If you're giving away photo's MB, I love the one of Barn, (as well as the Old House photo). Love them both.
I would have to say that the photos of Barn at the Old House with snow are my all-time faves of DS photos. I can still remember the excitement of seeing them for the first time in the Barnabas photo album book. Back then it was probably because they seemed so out of context to the series. The sense of rarity was very thrilling to me - still is. That this one is in color just knocks me out. Thanks for posting it. What a thrill!
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If you're giving away photo's MB, I love the one of Barn, (as well as the Old House photo). Love them both.
Yeah. Great pictures - especially the one with Barn. You see the loose shutter in back of him? Do you suppose that's one of the ones Louie Edmonds "procured" for his Long Island house??
[grinb]
Vlad -- I did a Google search for Spratt House and came up with precious little. But, if you haven't seen it, there's a nice picture of the Old House from the side here:
http://dirtman2.home.mindspring.com/Spratt.html
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Connie, i also did a search and did not come up with much on the "old house". here are a couple of more photo's
(http://www.military.com/UserImages/123617)
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(http://www.military.com/UserImages/123619) (http://www.military.com/UserImages/123618)
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thought this site offered some interresting period houses
Some great stuff there, Robert - thanks for posting the link. :)
I've never been to Salem, MA and I'd love to see more of The John Ward House. (There aren't any examples of First-Period style in my vicinity. The city I live in was originally settled in 1656, but any trace of arcitecture from that period was torn down LONG ago (Idiots!! >:( The earliest remaining examples are Georgian. But then, this is a city where one mayoral administration thought it was just agreat idea to tear down the original City Hall to make way for a new highway and build a new modern monstrosity of a City Hall over that highway. The state thought it was just a great idea too, except they somehow forgot to keep up wit the repairs to the underside of the overpass on which the city hall now sits and some of the concrete from under that overpass fell down onto the higway one day and damaged several cars (thankfully no people were injured). I'm sure you get the idea - but once again I digress...). Too bad the house is partially hidden behind the trees and there aren't any other photos on the site. I guess a trip to Salem is called for one of these days. ;)
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Also, I second Connie's question -- what did you mean about Grayson Hall/Carlotta's line about Collinwood being built by Joshua in the 1600s as being unscripted?
Script ==================== | | Movie ==================== |
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TRACY
(trying out one of the sofas) Oh, no! We can't let the house down. Why don't we call Claire and Alex. Tea in the drawing room with the lord of the manor.
QUENTIN
(to Carlotta) Oh, did you tell the Jenkins' we'd be here today?
CARLOTTA I didn't know you would wish it.
30 INT - FIRST FLOOR CORRIDOR _ DAY _ WIDE ANGLE
Shooting through Dining Room doors with the table and center piece in F.G., the three of them walk TOWARD CAMERA.
31 INT - FIRST FLOOR STAIRWAY - DAY
ANGLE from the second floor landing as they climb the stairs TOWARD CAMERA.
CARLOTTA As a child, I used to hide here. ... | |
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TRACY
(looking at Quentin in protest) Oh, no! We can't let the house down. We can call Claire and Alex and invite them for tea in the drawing room with the lord of the manor.
(turns to Carlotta) Did you tell the Jenkins' we'd be here today?
Carlotta is mesmorized by Quentin piano doodling.
TRACY Carlotta, did you tell the Jenkins' we'd be here?
CARLOTTA
(coming back to reality) Ah, no. I'm...I'm sorry. I didn't know that's what you wanted. ... Come, let me show you the rest of the house.
They leave.
30 INT - FIRST FLOOR CORRIDOR _ DAY _ WIDE ANGLE
Shooting through Dining Room doors with the table and center piece in F.G., the three of them walk TOWARD CAMERA.
CARLOTTA Collinwood was built by Joshua Collins in the late 1600s. Of course, there have been many changes and additions since then.
They walk up the stairs.
CARLOTTA
(off camera) As a child, I used to hide here. ...
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Who knows where the extra bit of Carlotta's dialogue came from (Grayson? - DC? - Sam? - ...?), but her story is, uh, odd, to say the least...
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MB Salem is really awesome, i have been there a number of times since the early 80's. they have really perserved the buildings wonderfully. walking along the cobblestone streets pass the houses really does take you back in time. is this the john ward house you were looking for?? check out the bottom of the postcard "The Old House"....i still think they should hold a Dark Shadows festival in Salem. to see Angelique (Lara Parker-the real Angelique!) and Trask there would really stir up some old stories... (http://www.military.com/UserImages/123664)
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I've never seen a picture of the back of the house. Do any exist?
The view of the house on the right side of the the photo that I posted in reply #43 shows the back and I *think* that's about the closet we've ever come to seeing it. The view we're used to seeing on DS is actually the right side of the building.
The photo that you posted a link to in reply #50 shows the front, as does this one:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/spratt2.jpg)
The photo of Frid that Robert posted in reply #51 shows it up close. I've always loved how Sy Tomashoff used a design that's very similar to the real house. But then, considering that they did do some location filming at Spratt House, I suppose he figured he should tie the set into the real house as well as possible.
Or any info about what the inside was like?
We discussed that in this topic here:
Ricky,
Jonathan Frid posed inside (and outside) the house for several publicity photos...
(And Robert posted one of them in reply #52. ;))
Also, the photos I've posted of Spratt House (except for the one in this post, which is from the Fest's The Introduction of Barnabas) were all taken from the DS Companion.
Unlikely, but it COULD have happened, right? Like you have some eccentric guy with money who just loved that type of house and decided to build one in Maine??
Well, I suppose nothing is "impossible." But given what was actually happening in achitecture in the area, it's virtually impossible that a house like Spratt would have actually been built in a place like Collinsport when the Old House had supposedly been constructed.
Let's put it this way: Aliens from another planet landing in 17th century Maine (actually still Massachusetts) might have been more likely. [lghy]
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Thanks for going to the trouble of setting up the side-by-side comparison of the NODS script with your transcription from the movie. My copies of the DS Almanac, the movie book, etc., are all in storage.
The additional dialogue is smoothly integrated into the scene and action, so it's definitely not something Ms. Hall ad libbed. Not that I'm all that familiar with these things, but my guess would be that the writer (Mr. Hall) pencilled in the additional dialogue. It's a nice touch, providing us as it does with additional information and atmosphere, and I'd guess they just didn't trouble too much with logic and consistency ;)
The additional photos and links here were great. Wish there were a link to the Barnabas shots if they are on a webpage. I'd like to save these on my computer, but the forum won't allow me to copy them. But at least I was able to get the one from Connie's link. I know copyright issues are sticky and complex, but there are "fair use" provisions, and I don't know how likely it is that someone would use them for personal gain, but you never know ... It's just that it would be nice to be able to view them on one's PC from time to time.
I was thinking, the back of that one wooden house, the one that looks sort of like a lean-to (or part of it does) looks very much like an old house/building that's on the adjacent lot from my building. When I first moved here, I thought it was ugly (there's a much more pleasing old brick home, turn of the century, now used by an architectural firm, that's directly in my line of vision), but then my mom said "even that one is interesting," and so I've come to appreciate it more, which is good since I do see it, too, whenever I look out my windows. It was a house but is now owned by the architectural firm and seems to be used for storage. I'm inspired now to try to find out when it was built. It does remind me of a smaller version of the House of the Seven Gables, though my guess is it isn't much more than 100 years old. I'm sure it's "historic" though. The oldest building I know of in my area is a stone church built in the 1850s.
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The additional dialogue is smoothly integrated into the scene and action, so it's definitely not something Ms. Hall ad libbed. Not that I'm all that familiar with these things, but my guess would be that the writer (Mr. Hall) pencilled in the additional dialogue.
Possibly. The script excerpt I used came from DC's script in the DS Movies book. But I also have a copy of Grayson's NoDS script, and those lines aren't in it either - yet her script does contain all sorts of notations...
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But I also have a copy of Grayson's NoDS script, and those lines aren't in it either - yet her script does contain all sorts of notations...
Wow!! How did you get that?!!
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Wow!! How did you get that?!!
Copies have been circulating in fandom for quite a few years. So much so that I figured that pretty much everyone had their own copy by now. :)
Grayson's notes are actually the best part. They're much more interesting than DC's - but why do I think most people wouldn't be surprised by that? ;)
(Possibly something else to look forward to after the Members' Archive reopens - downloadable copies of Grayson's NoDS script. [smlyb])
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(Possibly something else to look forward to after the Members' Archive reopens - downloadable copies of Grayson's NoDS script. [smlyb])
:) :) :)
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MB & Josette, My copy of NODS is actually titled "Dark Shadows 2" and is Grayson's working script. (probably the same as your's MB), I've had this one since 1992. I did alot of script trading with other DS fans back then, and have amassed about 32 DS tv episode scripts and also the 2 DS movies scripts.
(http://www.military.com/UserImages/123768)
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OK, this is very strange.
I just accessed the forum but hadn't logged in (yet). The first thing I went to was Current Talk.
The first thread I decided to go into was this one. 5 pages were listed. I clicked on "5" assuming that would be about where I'd want to read from.
The page loaded, and I noticed there was a photo. It appeared to be of Grayson Hall's script as there were many notations. However, I didn't take the time to look at it (or notice whose post it was part of) because it looked like I needed to backtrack to p. 4 of this thread. I selected page 4, read the most recent posts on that page, then went ahead to page 5 again. This time, and each subsequent time I've tried, THERE IS NO PHOTOGRAPH OF THE SCRIPT anywhere in the thread.
I am suffering from sleep loss but if this was a hallucination, it was a very realistic one.
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I am suffering from sleep loss but if this was a hallucination, it was a very realistic one.
It's not a hallucination. For whatever reason, the image of the script is not currently displaying in Robert''s post. Perhaps he decided to tinker with it. Or perhaps the Web space he has it stored in is experiencing some sort of difficulty...
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Ahh, the case of the vanishing script!
It looks like it has mysteriously reappeared!
Very interesting, but I wonder if these scripts have been verified ... authenticated ... tested ... proved ... remember the "Hitler" diaries ... the Vinland map ... the Kensington rune stone ... the ... ??
>:D
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While cleaning out a drawer over the weekend, I came across the 1996 American Mansions calendar, which I'd saved because it contains a picture of Lyndhurst. However, little did I remember that it also conatains some shots of Stan Hywet Hall. After looking at them again, I fell down on my knees and begged the universe to please let the new Collinwood be something similar to this incredible house (I think this is the best photo I've come across the house yet):
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/HYWET.JPG)
And please let any sets be similar to this shot of the Great Hall:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/HYWET2.JPG)
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Oh WOW, can you just imagine poor Mrs. Johnson chasing cobwebs in that great hall?! Now thats grandeur befitting the Collins family.
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And please let any sets be similar to this shot of the Great Hall
Yes, oh yes ...
Especially the great hall ... the exterior actually reminds me of several houses along Mt. C_____ , a street I lived adjacent to and used to walk on almost daily for years just for shere aesthetic pleasure ... but anyway, the great hall has some wonderful touches that would be much in keeping with Collinwood: in addition to the old world-style portraits and art objects, the mounted deer heads would not be out of place in backwoods Maine I should think.
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Oh, yes, those palm trees are there. I don't know why, but they just drove me crazy. They're clearly visible when Joe is pulling his boat out of the harbor;
I rewatched that scene, and... Wow.
For the curious, I took a couple of screen grabs as Joe and Carolyn are pulling out of Collinsport harbor aboard the Daphne. And here they are-- those infamous Maine Palms:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/Palms001.jpg)
In the capture below, they're visible on both sides of the mast:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/Palms02.jpg)
Too funny. Good catch, Gerard!