Author Topic: Moments that made you go "WHAT?!!!!"  (Read 23707 times)

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Offline Nelson Collins

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Re: Moments that made you go "WHAT?!!!!"
« Reply #165 on: November 12, 2006, 06:21:56 PM »
But even in that case, wouldn't the more obvious assumption be that Vicki was insane rather than that Vicki was a witch?  Wouldn't a reasonable, skeptical judge be more likely write out an order committing her to Windcliff or Rushmore Sanitarium or whatever version of Bedlam existed in 1795?  The very idea of trying somebody for witchcraft in 18th Century America is what seems so absurd.
I'm not sure even a tame version of an 18th century insane asylum would be considered soap opera viewing material.  The way the insane were treated (or not treated) in times past was pretty horrific.

If Vicki had been a member of the family, they would have just locked her up in the tower room or something! :)  Protect the family name, you know.

I guess another WHAT??? moment from that same time period is how little sense it seemed to make to single out Vicki.  True, she was the strange stranger, but absolutely NONE of the tragedies that befell the Collinses benefited her in any way.  It just seems odd that in spite of the furor over Vicki the witch, even after she was in jail, that no one looked around and said, "Hey, Angelique seems to have gotten a lot out of this this whole witch thing, at the least I would have thought people might suspect they were in league.
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Offline Lydia

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Re: Moments that made you go "WHAT?!!!!"
« Reply #166 on: November 12, 2006, 07:38:03 PM »
I guess another WHAT??? moment from that same time period is how little sense it seemed to make to single out Vicki.  True, she was the strange stranger, but absolutely NONE of the tragedies that befell the Collinses benefited her in any way.  It just seems odd that in spite of the furor over Vicki the witch, even after she was in jail, that no one looked around and said, "Hey, Angelique seems to have gotten a lot out of this this whole witch thing, at the least I would have thought people might suspect they were in league.

It seems obvious to us, who saw Angelique in action, but if I were reading this as a mystery without knowing who did it, I'd have my doubts.

Angelique's motivation for her witchcraft was her love for Barnabas.  (No need to digress into the question of whether Angelique's feeling for Barnabas was in fact love; she thought it was love, and that's all that matters.)  But a witch - a servant of the devil - would be assumed, especially by her 18th-century acquaintances, to be totally unconcerned with feelings of love.    If you're looking for a witch, the motivations you're going to be looking for are fear, vengeance, power, and money.

Fear: I don't see where anybody would imagine that Angelique feared bad treatment by the Dupres family or the Collins.

Vengeance: The Dupres family believed that it had treated Angelique well - in fact, better than she might have expected, since her mother had a bad reputation.  Barnabas was the only one who knew that Angelique had anything to avenge, but he was sort of clueless.  If he had been capable of seeing what sort of person she was, he never would have slept with her in the first place.   Additionally, he didn't believe in witches until he was faced with inescapable evidence.

Power and money:  that's out.  Joshua told Barnabas and Angelique that he would disinherit or disown or dis-something Barnabas if he married Angelique.  At this point, any proper witch would call off the wedding and start looking for new, richer prey.  But Angelique didn't.  She was all set to ride off into the sunset with Barnabas.

[spoiler]It's funny to think how Naomi, by giving the Old House to Barnabas with the very best of intentions, set the scene for the whole bloodbath that followed.  If Barnabas and Angelique had left, their marriage might have had a chance.[/spoiler]

Anyway, if a witch was looking for worldly gains, the obvious target was Jeremiah.  We know he had money of his own, independent of Joshua; Joshua commented after Jeremiah's death that his estate was larger than they had known.  (I wonder: who eventually got Jeremiah's money?)  Jeremiah was unencumbered by a wife or fiancee, and we know that Angelique could make him fall in love; she certainly proved that.

We're living in an age when "The butler did it" is a cliche.  It became that way because once upon a time nobody did think of the butler.  Or the maid.  Vicky, for all her cluelessness, was apparently the only one who noticed that Angelique was in love with Barnabas - and Vicky was from the 20th century.

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Re: Moments that made you go "WHAT?!!!!"
« Reply #167 on: November 19, 2006, 04:38:02 PM »
I am currently watching DVD Collection 16. Last night, I saw an episode where Barnabas is telling Julia that Angelique is in 1897. Julia is surprised, and Barnabas tells her that Angelique showed up:

"A week ago. A week after I came here."!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please, please tell me that it was a line flub by Frid. Please tell me that he was supposed to say "A month ago". Because, if I rewatched all of the 1897 episodes and added together the number of nights that they have had since Barnabas appeared, they might equal to about thirty. (Not counting the fact that they've had several full moons). But there is no way in hell that everything that has happened since Angelique was conjured up has happened in one week. No way.

Offline Brandon Collins

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Re: Moments that made you go "WHAT?!!!!"
« Reply #168 on: November 19, 2006, 06:19:33 PM »
I think that "a week ago" thing was mentioned before. I don't remember what was said though. It might have even been in this very thread.

Personally I don't think it was a Frid-flub. It was probably a stupid mistake on the part of the writers. But I'd agree that it was stupid, no matter whose fault it was. There is no way that a week went by given all that time that we'd already been in 1897, and, like you said PLT, all the full moons and nights that went by since Barnabas had been there.

Maybe Barnabas hadn't gotten the chance to check out a calendar, or maybe he ignored the sun dial in the garden or something...........Not that he would've been able to actually use it, but you get the point.
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Offline Midnite

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Re: Moments that made you go "WHAT?!!!!"
« Reply #169 on: November 19, 2006, 08:16:02 PM »
I am currently watching DVD Collection 16. Last night, I saw an episode where Barnabas is telling Julia that Angelique is in 1897. Julia is surprised, and Barnabas tells her that Angelique showed up:

"A week ago. A week after I came here."!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please, please tell me that it was a line flub by Frid. Please tell me that he was supposed to say "A month ago". Because, if I rewatched all of the 1897 episodes and added together the number of nights that they have had since Barnabas appeared, they might equal to about thirty. (Not counting the fact that they've had several full moons). But there is no way in hell that everything that has happened since Angelique was conjured up has happened in one week. No way.

JF blew the line, and the second part-- "a week after I arrived from the present"-- sounds (to me, anyway) like he realized his mistake and attempted to correct himself.  Which is slightly more forgivable when you consider that the script reads:  JULIA:  Angelique is here!  BARNABAS:  She put in an appearance about a week after I got here. my arrival from the future.

Brandon, soon you're going to get to the ep in which Quentin states she was there for 6 months, which makes loads more sense and brings it closer to "real time" if you were watching the show as it was originally broadcasted:
... 853 - A morose Quentin drinks and listens to his music in the drawing room. Kitty, fully-dressed and highly agitated, enters in and interrogates him all about [spoiler]his fiancee[/spoiler]--is she French? No, he says. (We accidentally see Lara Parker in the background.) She must be, frets Kitty, how long has she been here? Six months, and she came to see me, says Q.

Offline Brandon Collins

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Re: Moments that made you go "WHAT?!!!!"
« Reply #170 on: November 20, 2006, 05:48:29 AM »
Ah yes. I've seen that episode. I remember that now. Thanks Midnite!
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Offline arashi

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Re: Moments that made you go "WHAT?!!!!"
« Reply #171 on: December 30, 2006, 08:03:07 AM »
AUGH! T_T Okay I'm on disc 2 of boxset 17 (which I got for Christmas thanks Mom & Dad) and [spoiler]Beth has finally figured out with much help that Petofi is in Quentin's body.[/spoiler] OK I figure she was probably hoping for a happy ending here and was putting on blinders... my gripe here is that the writers had her run to TIM SHAW for help?! WHY?! What the hell was the logic behind this decision? Because he's had dealings with Petofi? So has nearly EVERYONE ELSE in town! Why the hell didn't she run to Quentin for Chrissakes?!

Oh my God. Seriously.

AND THEN! To get away from him she ran from town to WIDOW's HILL?!?!

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Re: Moments that made you go "WHAT?!!!!"
« Reply #172 on: December 30, 2006, 04:08:39 PM »
AUGH! T_T Okay I'm on disc 2 of boxset 17 (which I got for Christmas thanks Mom & Dad) and [spoiler]Beth has finally figured out with much help that Petofi is in Quentin's body.[/spoiler] OK I figure she was probably hoping for a happy ending here and was putting on blinders... my gripe here is that the writers had her run to TIM SHAW for help?! WHY?! What the hell was the logic behind this decision? Because he's had dealings with Petofi? So has nearly EVERYONE ELSE in town! Why the hell didn't she run to Quentin for Chrissakes?!

Oh my God. Seriously.

AND THEN! To get away from him she ran from town to WIDOW's HILL?!?!

True, she really should have gone to Quentin first, rather than Tim Shaw. But she was so scared when she realized the truth, she probably wasn't thinking straight. And she was scared out of her wits when [spoiler]Tim brought Petofi to her and when she saw a chance to get away, she took it. Going to Widows' Hill in hindsight wasn't very bright either, but again she was terrified out of her mind, trying to get away from Petofi.[/spoiler]

Poor Beth....no matter what we think what she could or should have done, she didn't deserve what happened to her.

Offline Pansity

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Re: Moments that made you go "WHAT?!!!!"
« Reply #173 on: January 22, 2007, 01:27:19 AM »
AUGH! T_T Okay I'm on disc 2 of boxset 17 (which I got for Christmas thanks Mom & Dad) and [spoiler]Beth has finally figured out with much help that Petofi is in Quentin's body.[/spoiler] OK I figure she was probably hoping for a happy ending here and was putting on blinders... my gripe here is that the writers had her run to TIM SHAW for help?! WHY?! What the hell was the logic behind this decision? Because he's had dealings with Petofi? So has nearly EVERYONE ELSE in town! Why the hell didn't she run to Quentin for Chrissakes?!

Oh my God. Seriously.

AND THEN! To get away from him she ran from town to WIDOW's HILL?!?!

True, she really should have gone to Quentin first, rather than Tim Shaw. But she was so scared when she realized the truth, she probably wasn't thinking straight. And she was scared out of her wits when [spoiler]Tim brought Petofi to her and when she saw a chance to get away, she took it. Going to Widows' Hill in hindsight wasn't very bright either, but again she was terrified out of her mind, trying to get away from Petofi.[/spoiler]

Poor Beth....no matter what we think what she could or should have done, she didn't deserve what happened to her.

I agree with everything everyone has said on this one.  There's enough loose ends in how they chose to write Beth out (and assassinate what was at the beginning a very spirited and intelligent character) to crochet a dozen new afghans!  [8311] [help]

I LIKE Beth, like writing her, and she really got a bum rap from the writers.

Not to mention the [spoiler]way she fell off Widows Hill.  When you actually look at it closely, it's really hard to believe that she had to falll at all.  He has her hand and she does like a dance dip under his arm.  ALL he had to do was grab her hand and fall backwards and they would have fallen backwards onto stable ground, her on top of him.[/spoiler]

I used the latter scenario in a Quentin and Beth alternate I wrote that is slated for the next issue of World of Dark Shadows (end obligatory plug  ;D)


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