Author Topic: Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6  (Read 5190 times)

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Offline doombuggy69

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Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« on: June 29, 2003, 04:26:56 PM »
More mysterious tape editing is being done by MPI that I discovered on DVD set #6. One of the all time great bloopers occurs in episode #451.  This is where Bathia Mapes is performing the exorcism on Barnabas, and forgets her lines. Off stage a crew member is heard shouting out the line to her. "Then go to the house"...... For some bizarre reason, MPI chose to mute over the sound of the crewman shouting out the line, by inserting a loop of the background music!!!  Why is this happening??  I thought these DVD's were unedited, and remastered from the original source material? This classic blooper appears on the 1990 MPI videotapes, Sci Fi channel reruns, and even the MPI Blooper tape!

Why all the altering with these episodes on DVD?

Selby_D._Pearson

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2003, 06:25:48 PM »
This is inexcusable! I am SO glad that I have not yet bought any of these DVDs sets. I am going to warn my friends who are considering purchasing these sets to reconsider!

Why edit just one of hundreds of bloopers? Does MPI think that this will make the show more professional, more believable for us? Certainly not more enjoyable! Does MPI think that they are marketing these sets for people who have never seen the original DS and all of its bloopers?

It is clear that someone is asleep at the switch at MPI! This should NOT be happening, ESPECIALLY if there is a DS fan that is now, or has been in the past, employed by MPI. To dismiss glitches caused by DVD production error as original master defects and to meddle with the actual content of the episodes themselves (in this case a blooper) is unforgivable! Apparently, MPI has lost touch with DS fans. Where is Jim Pierson?!!

This is disgusting! [kaiokn]

SDP

Offline CrazyJenny

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2003, 07:21:41 PM »
Thats strange.  I haven't noticed any bloopers being edited out of the other dvds.  Has anyone else?
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Offline Raineypark

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2003, 08:07:49 PM »
Perhaps this was simply the result of an over-achieving audio technician fixing something s/he (being only 19 years old and never having HEARD of DS, its fans, and their penchant for 'bloopers') had no idea was not broken.
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2003, 10:26:19 PM »
Perhaps this was simply the result of an over-achieving audio technician fixing something s/he (being only 19 years old and never having HEARD of DS, its fans, and their penchant for 'bloopers') had no idea was not broken.

Or perhaps it was done intentionally by the very same person who'd edited several episodes for Sci-Fi's second DS run. Unfortunately, people who've videotaped DS from Sci-Fi during that second showing and beyond rather than buying the MPI tapes do not have the same versions of many episodes because this person decided to edit out glitches in the masters (somewhat understandable) and excise footage and/or add/alter background music cues between act transitions where there are no longer any commercial breaks (which is not so understandable)...

ClaudeNorth

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2003, 01:00:18 AM »
I cannot believe that MPI would feel the need to alter the episodes in any way!  Are there other moments that are missing from the DVD releases?

I've had to put collecting the DVDs on hold, and if MPI is going to make a habit of tampering with the content of the episodes, then I sincerely doubt that I will resume collecting them.

Regards,

John

Offline doombuggy69

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2003, 01:50:41 AM »
As far as I can see, the Bathia Mapes blooper in episode 451, is the only one they tampered with. The rest of the episodes appear untouched. I doubt very much this was done back in 1967, because they would not have had the technology to loop the music over the blooper back then.

I have noticed several instances where ABC did attempt to remove certain lines of dialog when the actors forgot, and called a character by another name.  There is one episode from 1897 when Beth accidently calls someone by the wrong name. What ABC did was simply erased the line of dialog from her mouth. The same happened for an episode of 1841 PT, when Morgan calls a character by another name, and the dialog was erased again. Apparently ABC didn't have the ability to loop dialog back then. They were still cutting videotape with razor blades for goodness sake!

This "correction" on the DVD was definately done with today's technology.

 

Offline Raineypark

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2003, 02:49:40 AM »
.......They were still cutting videotape with razor blades for goodness sake!

Thank you, doombuggy, for putting it that way.  Just in case I was in danger of forgetting EXACTLY how old I am, you reminded me in an instant.  You see.....I've actually done just that....cut audio and video tape... in the studio.....with a razor blade. [lghy]

Somebody fetch the old lady her cane, please?
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Offline Stuart

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2003, 03:11:00 AM »
TBH, I think it's no bad thing that it's been fixed - it really is an all-time low for the series and I can't believe that anyone involved with the show's production would favour the original form.  It's sub-standard television, plain and simple.  No one's fault, but it doesn't alter that fact.

I've never really been bought by the so-called "charm" of bloopers - in isolation on a compilation tape it's one thing, but within the episodes they're shortcomings which detract seriously.  DS did wonders on the resources it had, and seeing something so downright amateur draws attention from those achievements.

I'm not necessarily advocating wholesale tampering, but where seriously bad mistakes like this can be repaired seamlessly, I think it's welcome and makes the show more acceptable for a contemporary audience.
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2003, 04:19:29 AM »
I cannot believe that MPI would feel the need to alter the episodes in any way!

I can certainly understand why people would get so upset with having some episodes "repaired", as it were. But I would say that it's probably premature to assume that some unknown editor at MPI is the one doing the alterring because that assumption might be in error. As I tried to strongly hint in my post above, in the past these "repairs" have always been traced back to one person. I'm reluctant to mention that person's name in connection with this particular instance because this is the first I've heard of edits on the DVDs and it's certainly not fair to accuse without the slightest bit of proof. But having had this individual's past actions confirmed by impeccable sources, I'd say that very same person would certainly be at the top of my list of suspects...

Selby_D._Pearson

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2003, 06:26:24 AM »
TBH, I think it's no bad thing that it's been fixed - it really is an all-time low for the series and I can't believe that anyone involved with the show's production would favour the original form.  It's sub-standard television, plain and simple.  No one's fault, but it doesn't alter that fact.

I've never really been bought by the so-called "charm" of bloopers - in isolation on a compilation tape it's one thing, but within the episodes they're shortcomings which detract seriously.  DS did wonders on the resources it had, and seeing something so downright amateur draws attention from those achievements.

I'm not necessarily advocating wholesale tampering, but where seriously bad mistakes like this can be repaired seamlessly, I think it's welcome and makes the show more acceptable for a contemporary audience.

While I uphold Stuart's right to have and offer his opinion, I feel his arguments of how the editing of these classic episodes can be a "good" thing are weak at best. Just who should have the power to judge whether a mistake is serious and unacceptable or whether it is minor and acceptable?

When asked what the all time low for DS was. different people offer different opinions. Some might answer "The Leviathan storyline" or the "Adam storyline". Others might answer "Kathy Cody's acting" or "the Mrs. Johnson character". Some might say "The cheap special effects.... bat on a string, mis-matched chromakey". Quite a few people have offered their problems with Jonathan Frid's frequent line flubs and glancing at the teleprompter. It just goes to show, as Rosanne Rosannadanna once said "It just goes to show you. You can't please everybody, or anybody from Ft. Lee, New Jersey!"

If we had the power to "fix" the "all-time lows" in Dark Shadows (and I strongly disagree with Stuart's use of these words) it would perhaps be easy to find a place to start. But, where would we end?!! Should we get an actor who sounds like the late Robert Gerringer to dub in audio over the original lines that labeled the yet-to-be-introduced Dr. Hoffman as a "her"?  Should we spare no expense to computer generate a believable bat to bite Barnabas in 1795? Should we cut out the entire 1995 flash forward and create a flash forward to 2005?

If MPI's mission was to produce a "more acceptable" show for a  "contemporary audience", perhaps all of the above should be done. But, I don't think that this is, or should be, the reason they are producing the DVDs. Nor do I believe that MPI is correcting the bloopers out of respect to "anyone involved with the show's production" as I doubt that these folks make up a sizeable number of the people who are buying the DS DVDs. No, I believe that the folks at MPI are supposed to be producing a CLASSIC CULT SHOW for DEVOTED FANS of that show, who remember it when it was originally run (or as it was run in reruns in the 1980s up till now) and want a TRUE and ACCURATE reproduction of that show, warts and all. Let those who cringe at things they don't like in DS go watch another show that's more to their liking. If people can't see the charm in the bloopers by realizing that the show was done virtually live and that people are human and television production has evolved greatly since the 1960s, if people can't get over this then they shouldn't be bothering with DS at all. To watch DS, you NEED to suspend your disbelief in more ways than one. The far out storylines, the limited sets, the contradictions in the scripts, etc... You also need to suspend your criticism and your need to find fault with things. Sit back and enjoy it for what is was, and still is, not for what it could have been. Save that for things in your life that you can change, more important things than a 37 year-old soap. Not that this 37 year-old soap is not important to me and all of it's thousands of long-time fans. It is important... just as we remember it. And nothing more, or less, would be an acceptable substitute.

Respectfully,

SDP

Selby_D._Pearson

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2003, 06:33:16 AM »
I cannot believe that MPI would feel the need to alter the episodes in any way!

I can certainly understand why people would get so upset with having some episodes "repaired", as it were. But I would say that it's probably premature to assume that some unknown editor at MPI is the one doing the alterring because that assumption might be in error. As I tried to strongly hint in my post above, in the past these "repairs" have always been traced back to one person. I'm reluctant to mention that person's name in connection with this particular instance because this is the first I've heard of edits on the DVDs and it's certainly not fair to accuse without the slightest bit of proof. But having had this individual's past actions confirmed by impeccable sources, I'd say that very same person would certainly be at the top of my list of suspects...

Well, where is the MPI Marketing poster? I hope he will soon appear and address our concerns and questions. I truly have to say, if this editing is going to be permitted then my VHS collection will be the only version of DS that I will ever own.

SDP



Nancy

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2003, 08:18:49 AM »
I'm glad to hear that MPI has evidently edited out some of the more blatant mistakes for the DVDs.  I am one of those people who never understood the so-called charm of bloopers.   If MPI has hopes of marketing the show beyond the hard core fans, it needs to provide the best it can be.   I don't believe the average fan of television classics would see major bloopers as anything but amatuerish and sloppy.  IMO, this has been a stumbling block in marketing and attracting a larger and more diverse audience for the show.  I just don't think the majority of viewers would see glaring mistakes as being anything but substandard television.  DVDs of other cult TV shows do not include, to my knowledge, major bloopers whether they went out over the air or not.

Nancy

Offline Stuart

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2003, 10:12:13 AM »
Stuart's... arguments of how the editing of these classic episodes can be a "good" thing are weak at best...

When asked what the all time low for DS was. different people offer different opinions. Some might answer "The Leviathan storyline" or the "Adam storyline"... "the Mrs. Johnson character".

As I said explicitly in my last post, I'm not advocating wholesale tampering - altering the narrative content of the episodes is something else entirely, as it subverts conscious artistic decisions made by the production team at the time.  Mrs Johnson was always written like that, so were the Leviathans - no one sat down in 1968 and decided to write the stage manager a cameo appearance.

If the original script read this, I'd agree with you:


JOSHUA: Yes?

[Old woman gawps into thin air for unfeasible amount of time]

DISEMBODIED NOO YAWKER [OOV]: Then go to the house...

BATHIA: [flash of inspiration] Go to the house of the curse! Blah blah...


Clearly, it's not the intention of anyone concerned that the scene is meant to play like this.  The way in which it's been fixed does not compromise the material artistically - no footage is excised and the fix is seamless, so it's sympathetic to the original material.  Technically, the episode should never have been broadcast in that state originally - it was substandard then and it's substandard today.  And where fixes like this can be made seamlessly with today's technology, and without affecting the duration, they should be.  It "sells" the show better to new viewers and allows older ones to enjoy the episodes the way they were intended to be seen.  Artistically speaking, can anyone seriously say that the episode is worse for losing a very sad example of an elderly actress being impatiently prompted as she struggles to perform?
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Selby_D._Pearson

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Re:Classic Blooper edited out on MPI DVD#6
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2003, 10:13:51 AM »
I'm glad to hear that MPI has evidently edited out some of the more blatant mistakes for the DVDs.  I am one of those people who never understood the so-called charm of bloopers.   If MPI has hopes of marketing the show beyond the hard core fans, it needs to provide the best it can be.   I don't believe the average fan of television classics would see major bloopers as anything but amatuerish and sloppy.  IMO, this has been a stumbling block in marketing and attracting a larger and more diverse audience for the show.  I just don't think the majority of viewers would see glaring mistakes as being anything but substandard television.  DVDs of other cult TV shows do not include, to my knowledge, major bloopers whether they went out over the air or not.

Nancy

DS has survived this long with each and every "amatuerish and sloppy" blooper intact. Fans, many of them,  look forward to seeing these bloopers. The DS Festival itself posts internet notices of upcoming bloopers to look for on the current Sci Fi episodes. It does not warn fans to look away from the blooper or your opinion of DS will be irreparably damaged. I have never heard of a fan who has become disillusioned with DS because of seeing a blooper.

The PBS stations of the 1980s and the Sci Fi Channel in the 1990s have shown that airing DS uncut, in its original form produces loyal viewers in great numbers. The Festival attendence soars when the show is being currently broadcast and most of those Festival attendees are there for the first time. Many are new fans, having never seen the show before. Most times that DS is featured on a show like "Entertainment Tonight" or "Extra" the bloopers are mentioned as an integral part of the show. Many of the actors, whether they mean it or not, publicly speak of the bloopers in endearing terms. And the DS blooper tape apparently still sells very well. Perhaps MPI's cutting of classic bloopers will further their sales of the blooper tape (DVD eventually) by allowing them to promote it as "the only place you can see Bathia Mapes go up and other classic bloopers"?

If MPI is attempting to clean these up to attract a "larger and more diverse audience" (which I don't believe), why then did they leave intact the blooper of the DS studio person who was caught in the mausoleum with Barnabas and Angelique? IMO, this was a greater blooper than the off camera line feed to Anita Bolster. Why did they leave in "That night must go nothing wrong"?!! Why leave in the intruding TV camera when Carolyn was reporting Julia's comings and goings to Barnabas? Could not these bloopers have been "fixed" for the DVD releases? Where were the fan complaints about the presence of these bloopers on the VHS tapes and DVDs?

Whether MPI ever does away with the bloopers or not, the simple fact of the matter is that with the continued production of the blooper tape, people will always be aware that these bloopers occured during the actual show itself because they were gleaned from it. No matter how much the people involved with DS wish the bloopers weren't there, they will always be an integral part of it. These folks have every right to be very proud of a classic show that they, together, created. If there are any of them who have not yet gotten over the bloopers or their own stumbling for lines or looking desperately for the teleprompter, they should stop crying over spilt milk and join the fun in appreciating the show for what it was. Perhaps it wasn't on the same level as "All in the Family" or "The Sopranos" but it certainly holds its own special place in TV history. Jonathan Frid once said that DS has now become a part of American folklore. He also said that while more often than not, they fell on their faces (perhaps meaning that bloopers and mis-spoken lines made up a majority of the show?) every once in a while they reached for and found their place in the stars and made TV magic. As a fan, I certainly loved those magic moments. But, also just as endearing were the times when, still trying to reach those stars, they heroically fell like the rest of us fallible human beings.

SDP