DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '02 II => Topic started by: kuanyin on November 13, 2002, 02:28:54 AM
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We all know that several guys here are convinced that KLS, is the greatest SWT ever. (Great to see you back Ringo!) How do you women feel about her?
I have to admit, that I am becoming aware of really disliking her characters. It isn't so much that I dislike Rachel, though, OK, I do despise stupid wide eyed twits. But what I really dislike is men's reaction to her!!! Yes, I'm jealous and I'm mystified about her appeal and I always have been. When I was a YT, I used to look at the SYTs and wonder how they did it. And that's just it, they don't DO anything, they just are and men drool over them. I used to think what am I, chopped liver? (And now that I am no longer even Y, I know that, yes, I am chopped liver.)
So, am I the ONLY awful person with such feelings? [vryevl]
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So, am I the ONLY awful person with such feelings? [vryevl]
No, I'm right there with you. I hate PT Maggie nearly as much as Rachel. Idiots, the both of them.
I suspect that the rationale for Barnabas and Quentin liking Rachel is simple. All Barnabas needs is the resemblance to Josette and Quentin is a serial philanderer.
Luciaphil
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We all know that several guys here are convinced that KLS, is the greatest SWT ever. (Great to see you back Ringo!) How do you women feel about her?
She did well enough with what they gave her to work with...she seldom, if ever, fluffed a line. She had to make do with insipid dialogue eight days out of ten, but that isn't her fault.
I did really enjoy her as Lady Kitty Hampshire, and I also liked her as Maggie, from the early episodes up through the Barnabas kidnapping...she had some especially good performances in that storyline.
I hated the PT Maggie and Rachel Drummond characters.
Cheers,
Linda
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I have always enjoyed KLS's performance in all her characters, she always did her best with them all, each was differently presented...
Although I prefer Maggie, I will miss her, she and Joe did at long last reside in the same place... "WindCliff".. oh my. :o
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I have to admitt I really like KLS. Of course, she was everything I wasn't as a SYT. I would have loved to look like her, but hey, it is not in the genes.
The charator of Rachael drives me nuts. Way to sickly sweet and just plain Dumb! Her other charactors don't bother me. I like Maggie. Always have guess always will. Lady Kitty was a hoot. I saw KLS in a made for TV movie where she was able to play a charactor more like Kitty and she did a great job.
I feel like I should hate her because she still looks fantastic. Than again I am still in denial that I am 45. I feel young and old at the same time. Hate, Hate, Hate, that I am the oldest one at the place where I work. How did I get off the topic. KLS is a truly gracious person and I still want to be her when I grow up. Of course that would take major plastic surgury.lol
Birdie
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Kuanyin said....
And now that I am no longer even Y, I know that, yes, I am chopped liver.)
You are not pate'! [smash] for running yourself down!
[shadow=purple,left,300]
Always, Minja [vryevl]
[/shadow][/size]
Who admits to having once been a WYT (wicked young thing)......(I heard that Mark!)
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What I admire about KLS is her gumption. I want to know how a SYT left the midwest to go to big, bad NYC without a second thought. I was still living at home in my early 20's and was having a terrible time deciding if I should leave home to go to nursing school. I admire women like KLS who have the desire to be someone and won't let anyone or anything stop them. She's had several different exciting careers and still seems to be untouched by fame and glory.
It's taken a long time for some of us to develop inner strength so that looks don't matter. Keep telling yourself that you ARE special--that there is no one else like you--and they take you as you are or not at all.
Don't run yourself down--PLEASE! I remember those days all too well and prefer my "I am Woman, Hear me Roar" attitude.
The One-eyed, Unhip Mom
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Have to admit that Rachel and PT Maggie aren't my favorite characters, either. But I think that KLS is a terrific actress hampered by characters that are written as victims.
It just occurred to me while watching yesterday's eps that KLS offers us a glimpse into some of Rachel Drummond's inner life. Things that she said and her body language communicate that Rachel is insecure and has low self esteem. When trouble approaches, her instinct is to run away from it. She isn't strong and she's been hurt a lot by life. Playing Rachel, KLS displays no confidence in herself and seems cowed - she doesn't hold her head high, and mostly avoids eye contact. She's quite a different woman to Lady Kitty Hampshire (who is one of KLS's more interesting characters).
As for her appeal to men, if you look like KLS and appear helpless, you've got them eating out of your hand (which Lady Kitty knew). The last thing most Victorian men wanted was too much of a challenge. I used to think that even men today were like that, until I met my husband.
So no, kyuanyin, you aren't the only one with such feelings, and I'm sure you ain't chopped liver, either! ;)
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We all know that several guys here are convinced that KLS, is the greatest SWT ever. (Great to see you back Ringo!) How do you women feel about her?
I have to admit, that I am becoming aware of really disliking her characters. It isn't so much that I dislike Rachel, though, OK, I do despise stupid wide eyed twits. But what I really dislike is men's reaction to her!!! Yes, I'm jealous and I'm mystified about her appeal and I always have been. When I was a YT, I used to look at the SYTs and wonder how they did it. And that's just it, they don't DO anything, they just are and men drool over them. I used to think what am I, chopped liver? (And now that I am no longer even Y, I know that, yes, I am chopped liver.)
So, am I the ONLY awful person with such feelings? [vryevl]
LOL, I don't think you're awful at all.
My favorite part of the show was from the introduction of Barnabas through 1795 so I keenly remember KLS' contribution. I thought Josette was written badly but KLS did fine with the role and the kidnapping story was well performed by KLS. It was her first professional gig, IIRC, and she had little or no TV experience. That medium requires a certain technical savvy not all actors have (obviously) but she did and learned quickly. TV and film requires a certain ability to be something like a circus animal (no offense!): memorize a ton of dialogue quickly and perfectly, stand or move a certain way even it if is unnatural, pretend you are talking to someone when you aren't, etc. KLS was able to do that and much to her credit considering her lack of real experience.
I also tend to think many soap characters are written to be deliberately stupid or helpless because those traits generate many scenarios and interactions with other characters. It's hard to relate to a character like Maggie Evans for me. I moved out of the family home at the age of 18 and went to Europe by myself at the age of 21. (No one else had the money to go with me so I went myself) I moved to New York City without really knowing anybody so I can't relate much to someone like Maggie. I also can't look at her in the same way that a man would so I can't really judge her appeal. Most of the men that I know or have been involved with do not care for helpless or clueless women beyond simple flirtation or some long distance admiration. In reality they would not really be involved with someone like that. That's my take it on anyway.
Nancy
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DS started when I was in 5th grade and ran until my sophomore year. During that formative time in my life I can remember thinking that KLS was one of the prettiest actresses on TV. So, of course I wanted to look and be like her! Her main characters - or what I considered to be her main characters (Maggie and Josette) - were typical heroine types so she naturally came off as very likeable and kind as well as pretty - someone who would be your best friend and who you wouldn't "hate because she was beautiful". As an adult I still think she's very pretty - as she looked back then and as she does now - and she still comes across as very likeable and kind (on DS and at the festivals as well). Funny thing though, I no longer really want to look like her - or anybody else for that matter. Not that I don't (usually [heh] ) try to look the best I can but, I guess I've just made peace with myself with a lot of issues I can't do anything about and feel comfortable enough in my own skin now to say to the world something I never would have said in my youth - here I am - take it or leave it! [peace]
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What's the mystery here?
Men have gravitated towards younger, more beautiful women since our ancestors crawled up out of the ooze.
For some men, younger, more beautiful and STUPID is the perfect hat trick.
Julia broke Barnabas' shoes on a regular basis...she argued and questioned and verbally fenced with him almost constantly. Maggie Evans smiled and simpered and made doe eyes at him. This isn't even a contest.
Julia could have been the perfect blend of Marie Curie and Mother Theresa and Maggie STILL would have won hands down, because she was the reincarnation of beautiful, empty-headed, fashionable, doll-like Josette , the woman of Barnabas' dreams
The only smart, savey, crafty, conniving, powerful, ingenious, ruthless Sexy Young Thing, on the other hand, isn't allowed to be a normal human woman. No....THAT one has to be a WITCH! ::)
rainey
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It just occurred to me while watching yesterday's eps that KLS offers us a glimpse into some of Rachel Drummond's inner life. Things that she said and little her body language communicate that Rachel is insecure and has low self esteem. When trouble approaches, her instinct is to run away from it.
See I don't get that vibe. Her instinct so far has been to run smack dab straight at the trouble. Her employers give her every sort of implied direction that they want her to a)stop asking questions; b)stay to the public rooms of the house and c)mind her own business. She goes against every one of them. They then tell her directly and she still does the same.
She isn't strong and she's been hurt a lot by life. Playing Rachel, KLS displays no confidence in herself and seems cowed - she doesn't hold her head high, and mostly avoids eye contact.
I would agree with that, but I think I'd take it a step further and argue that Rachel subconsciously seeks out sabotages herself. Which would go into the low esteem: I don't deserve this situation, so I will muck it up.
I also (and I know this won't make me very popular) think that Rachel has a very definite sneaky streak to her character :)
Luciaphil
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[wavey] Hello all i've liked KLS as well but i'll do
like Alexandra Moltke the best. She was a tough!
Love Anne
( Anne who is waiting for next August to come so
she still has time to rehearse what she'll say to The
Q-man) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YUMMY!!!!!!!!!
Love Anne
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Interesting Thread, ladies!
Several points are on the nose, like the 'temporary' nature of an attraction to a SYT [characters], and the admiring the gumption [sp?] of the actor/real person. I believe it was a quote about Selby 'reading the phone book' that applies to my perspective! [at least as a teenager, on the orig run!!] But 30 years on, and concentrating on just the characters, I like Maggie, but I LOVE Lady H.
Here Kitty, Kitty, Kitty......
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I also (and I know this won't make me very popular) think that Rachel has a very definite sneaky streak to her character :)
Well, it may not make me popular either, but I agree with you on this one. Was also wondering yesterday what would've happened if they'd taken the Rachel character in a different direction. Considering that she had some bad stuff in her past, it would've been interesting if they explored a darker side to her. And I think KLS would've been equal to the task.
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i think having to hang out with Gregory ruined
Rachel (i believe he "seduced" her and that would ruin anyone ICK!)also hate PT maggie! i'm used to myself and while i never was a SYT either see them now at the playground and realize they aren't any happier than
those of us that weren't up there on those pedestals!
jennifer
also Minja can't remember my WYT days but some people tell me i had them!
let's face it barnabas had more than on affliction!
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I always wished Barnabas would have married Lady Kitty. I think he saw Josette but reality would have hit home the first few times he heard "Not tonight, I have a headache".
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Rachel doesn't get on my nerves as much as PT Maggie Evans did. The real problem with Maggie and Quentin in that storyline is that the hero and heroine are such dreadful characters that you are rooting for the baddies to win.
When I think of characters like Rachel Drummond, I'm reminded of a line that Oscar Wilde had about one of the original soap opera heroines of literature: "one would have to have a heart of stone to weep at the death of Little Nell." Maybe that's an overly subtle way of stating that people who fall for fake sentimentality of this sort can be guaranteed to lack the capapcity to act with compassion when faced with victims of violence in the real world.
KLS isn't my favorite on the series by a long shot, but I do think she was a competent actress who also had sufficient warmth of presence to explain why the characters, male or female as the case may be, took an interest in her. On Monday I watched an episode where Maggie had escaped from Barnabas only to be recaptured by him and subjected to a horrifying punishment in the Mauseoleum. She played a wide range of emotions with understated, persuasive ability in this show (and had wonderful onscreen chem with Johnny Karlen in their scene together, too).
Just some thoughts...
Gothick
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Rachel reminds me of a child who refuses to listen to it's parents. She is just plain nosy, going into things that are not her business. And worse yet, she get caught. Most people would stop after being caught, but not Rachel. At least when Vicki was doing sort of the same thing at the very beginning of the series, what she was looking for involved her and people she at the time barely knew.
I like Kathryn Leigh Scott in the other two roles I've seen her in - Maggie Evans and Josette duPres. I am especially looking forward to the character of Lady Kitty.
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M
What's the mystery here?
For some men, younger, more beautiful and STUPID is the perfect hat trick.
Amen, to THAT sister! And not being stupid, it has always driven me crazy.
Yes, Minja, I was a WYT also. And like Carolyn, it just didn't go over all that great. Though at least I didn't marry a Leviathan brat..., or did I?
I do want to reiterate that I was talking about the characters and not KLS herself. I really liked early Maggie a lot, and I'm sure KLS is great. Isn't it interesting though, that NONE of the guys here EVER fantasize about Carolyn or even Angelique? And they are simply beautiful, just not innocent.
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Raineypark Wrote:
For some men, younger, more beautiful and STUPID is the perfect hat trick.
That's true, until they marry them and live with them for awhile. As soon as they find out they can't cook, clean, etc, and realize how helpless they are, they quickly tire of them and look elsewhere.
I think the only reason why Barnabas is so crazy about Rachel is just like what others have mentioned here, because she's just a Josette look alike and nothing more for him. Rachel could have been an evil witch for all he cared but as long as she looked like his beloved Josette, that's fine for him.
Im not too crazy about Rachel either and I really don't think she's as helpless & innocent as she would like others to believe she is. The very first minute she arrived with Edward at the train station she was already asking him all kinds of nosy questions about "Mrs.Collins" and could clearly see how uncomfortable Edward was with her questions. Right then and there, that should have been the end of it. Instead, she enters Collinwood all wide eyed as if she can't wait to go exploring the place from top to bottom. She snoops around all hours of the day and night and just won't take NO for an answer.
If she was truly as helpless as she would like Barnabas to believe then she wouldn't have stolen that key from the Pantry and gone up to a strange dark room all by herself just to investigate. She's just plain nosy & sneaky and seems to do anything to be the center of attention. It's obvious that she loves all the attention that Barnabas is giving her and couldn't care less what anyone else in that household has to say to her.
I really liked Lady Kitty because her character was so different from the others that KLS portrayed. IMO, Maggie, Josette & Rachel were all so similiar but as Lady Kitty, KLS really shone as we got to see a completely different character altogether. I really thought that this was KLS's best role on the show. :-)
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NONE of the guys here EVER fantasize about Carolyn
Not totally true, Illya!!
Oh, OK, I admit, Carolyn is a babe, too - but for me she is the kind I would take home once [maybe more than just once....] But TLATKLS, I wanna take home and KEEP!
[jester]
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I love KLS!! I am not a big fan of her characters though. I did like early Maggie until she became the "I don't understand" DS girl when Victoria was gone. I would say that my other favorite was Lady Kitty Hampshire. I really loved her character and my only complaint was that she didn't use a stronger English accent. She seemed to go in and out of it. Maybe this was what the producers wanted. Josette and Angelique spoke a bit of french and then it was dropped. KLS (as Josette) sounded American and LP sounded British. I figure the later was the best way for her to get rid of her southern accent. I am from the Kentucky so I know how hard it is to break that accent. I quit trying to lose my southern accent because I have had more people compliment the accent than degrade it.