Author Topic: Discuss - Ep #0780  (Read 781 times)

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Discuss - Ep #0780
« on: August 30, 2014, 03:54:02 PM »
Robservations #780

And if you'd care to look back, the first WP discussion topic for this ep:
Re: Discuss - Ep #0780

Offline Joeytrom

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0780
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2014, 06:28:32 PM »
The infamous murder of Carl Collins.

I know fans have gone over & over about this but I always thought if John Karlen wanted to leave the show, they just shouldn't have brought Carl back at all and just have him gone away.

I have also mentioned before that I believe in the original timeline, an insane but human Dirk killed Rachael, Pansy, & Carl and was then shot to death by Edward.  Perhaps this is just the timeline making up for what was to happen anyway.

Offline dom

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0780
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2014, 07:12:29 PM »
The idiocy gene needed to be eradicated from the family tree, IMO. ;) Besides, 'shocking' is stock-in-trade for soaps. And I can't believe I am saying this because I am the first to piss and moan (and I am referring to myself only) about Vicki's ultimate fate.

Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0780
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2014, 09:37:09 AM »
Selby VO.  It's day.  Quentin's in the Drawing Room with his travelling cyllinder player, drinking and trying to deaden his conscience.  Trask comes in, increasingly at home there.  Q taunts Greg with all the earthly delights that Greg is secretly pursuing, not abstaining from. 

Carl, vamp escapee (or escaper), tells Trask about Barnabas.  One of those secret just-for-the-viewers-and-the-God-he-thinks-likes-him smiles comes over Trask, showing that his lust to smite Barnabas is equal to his lusts for power and money.  Why?  I know, his grandfather (?), but did Greg know?  He didn't seem interested in Barnabas before his last talk with Edward, and it seemed just to come out of the blue, his anti-Barnabas-ness. 

Barnabas rises.  The door to the Mausoleum is OPEN!  And Quentin walks through it!  Hi!  Well, isn't this awkward!!  Q forestalls the bitey-bitey by cementing their alliance, and giving Barnabas all the news that's fit to kill relatives over.  VERY interesting moment and scene.  Once they're firmly on the same side, that's the cue apparently for Barnabas to start ordering Quentin around like he was, I don't know, a selflessly loyal female doctor who's in love with him, or something.  Proving that the really great thing about having friends is that they're nice, and will let you walk all over them.

After Carl tries and fails to show Trask the coffin, Trask stands alone in the mausoleum, talking to himself, telling himself he must save Carl's soul.  No observers to impress, there.  So... he actually believes he's God's agent, and that what he does is right.  That makes it all more complicated, and sicker.

Drawing Room, Collinwood.  Barnabas, a bit torn up one would think over "having" to kill a cousin, instead is taking his usual delight in it, that he always takes in revenge.  He toys with Carl like a cat.  (Maybe it's automatic, like a cat's playing with prey.) This time around, I noticed that the death took place during a commercial break, with Carl on the floor.  It seems possible Barnabas went too far accidentally, (perhaps intending to make him talk or something) as he did with Dirk, biting him.  Bad interrogation technique. 

Quentin possibly makes another life-saving on-the-spot decision, discovering and then immediately forgiving the murder, telling Barnabas he had no choice.  It may be that he had to choose a side, or that he identifies with Barnabas because he also does "only what he must", or maybe Quentin felt he'd have been killed that moment himself if he took Carl's side.  No one really cared about Carl though.  Q rightly berates Barnabas for not even making sure Carl had told no one.

Another big scene-- Trask confronts Barnabas at dawn.  The cock crows... the end.  It's a classic scene, but with good and evil all tangled up.  We hate the priest more than we could ever hate Barnabas, despite what he's just done.  Trask is unequivocably the bad guy here, even if he's right.  We're really supposed to like the guy outing the vampire!  That's how it always works in the movies!

This time, I wasn't disturbed by watching one of my childhood heroes resort to cold-blooded murder.  I saw someone who was always on the edge of violence all the time anyway, who has this "mission" to help David and Chris, but which I have trouble believing he believes in all that much.  It's not alarming or confusing that he kills Carl.  Barnabas is a villain, sort of.  I'll swing back in his favor later, I suppose.  The Carl thing really did confound me though, for a long time.

Maybe Barnabas has grabbed at the idea of saving Chris and David as a justification for his existence.  After "reforming", he was a sort of strangely "cured" killer who was never caught, who just sort of continued to hang around the scene of his most recent crimes, after having the murderousness in him removed like a bad gall bladder, in a bizarre sort of anti-climax.  Does he settle in and have a nice normal life like everybody else?  Do you turn yourself in?  No option makes sense, and life is just ... going on as if it all never happened, smiling at relatives... crazy.  So you tell yourself you're taking on a holy mission, perhaps to atone, and give some identity and solidity to your existence.  Now he's a crusader, but maybe one that doesn't actually care.

That may or may not make sense.

Joeytrom -- I don't understand.  Do you think all those people had to be killed, no matter who did it?  Why couldn't Rachel, Dirk, and Pansy have just survived, in timeline one?

Good to see you in the WP dom... is there some point when your tapes will start up again, and you can watch along with the WP?
"One can never go wrong with weapons and drinks as fashion accessories."-- the eminent and clearly quotable Dark Shadows fan and board mod known as Mysterious Benefactor

Offline Joeytrom

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0780
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2014, 04:52:36 PM »
I'm just thinking that the history can't be changed that much.  If any of them did live on originally, possibly none of them married or contributed in any way that effects the future.  Post 1897, Quentin didn't connect with his family originally or in the changed timeline (though he was dead in the original).  He most likely had meaningless relationships that went nowhere or kept to himself.

Dirk was already insane before Barnabas bit him, so I think he did murder those people originally.

Offline DarkLady

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0780
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2014, 05:48:22 PM »
Quentin takes the first tentative steps on the road to redemption when he tells Barnabas, "I know. I know why you're helping me." Maybe it's not pure empathy or compassion, not yet anyway, but it's a start. His old ruthlessness comes roaring back when he is complicit in Barn's murder of Carl.

I've always loved that scene. It's absolutely crucial and one of my favorites in the series. Quentin is at Barn's mercy--the moon isn't full, so Q. is a mortal man and mortally vulnerable. Barn actually does tell--okay, order--Quentin to try to keep Carl from blabbing, but as we (the audience) know, it's already too late. The scene with Trask and Carl is pretty hilarious, actually.

The scene where Trask confront Barnabas at sunrise is also a good one. Who's the good guy here? Who's the baddie? A great way to end a week of episodes.

Joey, your idea for the original timeline sounds logical to me.

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0780
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2014, 07:33:06 PM »
The scene where Trask confront Barnabas at sunrise is also a good one. Who's the good guy here? Who's the baddie?

That's one of the great things about DS: situations that would appear one way from a real world perspective are often turned on their heads from the perspective of the DS universe. In the DS universe, Barn is clearly the good guy in this scene (even though he killed Carl) and Trask is the baddie. But if we looked at the scene through the prism of the real world, it would clearly be the opposite.

Quote
A great way to end a week of episodes.

Indeed!!

Offline DarkLady

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0780
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2014, 07:57:40 PM »
Once again, I have to wonder who was responsible for the emphatic anti-clerical thread that runs throughout the series. Jerry Lacy is outstanding.