Major flaw in the 1897 storyline

[Midnite]

Wait. .wasn't Cassandra already dealt with by the time Quentin's ghost came around.. . so from 1795 to 1968 back to 1795--then brought from 1795 to 1897 by Q and E .. .so i don't see why Angelique should've known about Q's ghost. . ??

But Cassandra came back in #655.

[spoiler]Still fixated on Liz for some unknown reason (but no doubt brought about to provide an excuse while Joan appeared on stage), Cassandra showed up at Collinwood to cast a deathly spell on Liz.  By that time, Quentin's ghost had already murdered the psychic Janet Findlay.  The next time we see Angelique is in 1795 (1796/whatever) when she tells Barnabas she was sent there as punishment for her behavior in 1968.[/spoiler]

[Midnite]

she knows Chris' secret,

hmm..Midnite, could you elaborate on this? I don't remember Ang ever mentioning this.

It occurs during B&A's first face-to-face in 1897.  (The previous time they met up in the tower room, he burned her. )  Anyway, better that Robin tell it.  This is an excerpt from her summary of ep #718.

Robservations 11/7/02 - #718 - Barnabas & Angelique in the Tower
...
Quentin is quite curious about you, she says. Barnabas admits, I feel the same about Quentin. Barnabas sits on the bed. She sits behind him, kneeling, warning, him that Quentin is clever and dangerous Quentin is--how are you going to save David?--how do you plan to solve the secret of the werewolf? Barnabas is stunned she knows all this, and asks how. I care about David, says Angelique, I did know him, and care for him as much as you do. "You care for no one!" shouts Barnabas. ...

[Midnite]

Thank you for sharing your timeline theories, PennyDreadful!  I printed them out and am looking forward to poring over them. 

[PennyDreadful]

  Cool Midnite!  Trying to figure out the DS mythos is like trying to solve a huge puzzle where many of the pieces don't fit together!

 I was thinking, maybe allowing herself to get burned during her banishment to 1795 was the mistake she made which lead to the (conjectured) punishment of having her future-memory wiped out in 1840.  Perhaps she is restored to life some time after Barnabas leaves 1795/6, but without her memory.  These future memories would, by 1897, be restored.
  Also, I think Angelique had access to knowledge most wouldn't.  Even if she personally never saw Chris transform into a werewolf, she probably had the ability to keep an eye on the goings-on at Collinwood somehow.  I also think Angelique has spent some time going between the earthly plane and that "really warm place downstairs."    

[Joeytrom]

I always thought Angelique's timeline went as follows:

1692 (as Miranda)- she then eventually died.
1795/1796- reincarnated and made a witch per Angelique's Descent.
1840
1968
1796
1897
1970

Angelique was making annual trips to check that Barnabas was still chained in his coffin, so in the original 1840 she saw the chains and then left town.  The same goes for 1897.

I always thought that following 1897, there were two Angeliques in the 1968 period.  While she was Cassandra at Collinwood, her present self was in New York as a model, eventually meeting Sky Rumson and marrying him.  She clearly avoided Collinwood altogether in 1968 to avoid messing anything up.

At the point in 1897 when Quentin is saved from being killed, Barnabas makes a statement "David was never possessed".  which would be the true case, as there is no ghost in the present time. But the writers forgot all about this by having present time characters still remember his ghost.   By the summer 1970 haunting of Gerard/Daphne, everyone seems to have forgotten Quentin/Beth's haunting by not commenting on the similarites between the two.

[Ian]

I always thought that following 1897, there were two Angeliques in the 1968 period.  While she was Cassandra at Collinwood, her present self was in New York as a model, eventually meeting Sky Rumson and marrying him.  She clearly avoided Collinwood altogether in 1968 to avoid messing anything up.

But...

[spoiler]Now I can't remember if it was Julia, Carolyn, or Elizabeth (most likely Carolyn), but when this person found Angelique in Sky's house, didn't she apologize for all the nasty stuff she pulled as Cassandra (and Angelique the vampiress)? She also said that she still had her powers, but she wanted to be "good" from then on, she didn't want to have anything to do with the goings-on at Collinwood.[/spoiler]

[Josette]

[spoiler]Now I can't remember if it was Julia, Carolyn, or Elizabeth (most likely Carolyn), but when this person found Angelique in Sky's house, didn't she apologize for all the nasty stuff she pulled as Cassandra (and Angelique the vampiress)? She also said that she still had her powers, but she wanted to be "good" from then on, she didn't want to have anything to do with the goings-on at Collinwood.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Julia met Angellique at Sky's and later Barnabas went there.  The primary reason she didn't want to have Carolyn and Elizabeth there was that she was afraid they would recognize her as Cassandra, so she certainly didn't have any conversations like that with them.  They didn't know anything about her having powers anwyay.[/spoiler]

[jennifer]

all right now that my head is spinning around as time travel always does
have to agree Roland (and welcome)  that after all that
time in 1897 that explanation was pretty weak and as Beth was
one of my favorites thought she would have had more gumption
than that!

jennifer

[Roland]

Thanks everybody for your welcome and comments.  They are greatly appreciated.

I understand that time travel scenarios are intrinsically incomprehensible and frustrating.  I just wish the writers hadn't made it worse by doing such a sloppy job in this case, since it could have been so easily avoided by simply having someone else kill Quentin the first time around.  Oh well...

Another weird inconsistency I just noticed.  After Julia comes to 1897, Barnabas tells her that Angelique is there.  Julia acts surprised, but why should she be?  After all, Beth told her that Angelique was engaged to Quentin even before Julia made the trip back to the past.  Yikes

[Joeytrom]

Another weird inconsistency I just noticed. After Julia comes to 1897, Barnabas tells her that Angelique is there. Julia acts surprised, but why should she be? After all, Beth told her that Angelique was engaged to Quentin even before Julia made the trip back to the past. Yikes

Actually, Beth's ghost never mentioned the name of the woman to Julia.

[Roland]

Another weird inconsistency I just noticed. After Julia comes to 1897, Barnabas tells her that Angelique is there. Julia acts surprised, but why should she be? After all, Beth told her that Angelique was engaged to Quentin even before Julia made the trip back to the past. Yikes

Actually, Beth's ghost never mentioned the name of the woman to Julia.

You have a point here, although I'm not sure it's an entirely convincing one.  Actually, we never hear HOW Beth describes the scene since we are SHOWN the scene instead.  I guess one could assume that Beth just said "a woman," although we don't know for sure.  Again, I just don't think the writers did a very good job here.  They left gaping holes in logic where they really didn't have to.

[MagnusTrask]

Kudoes to Original Timeline Angelique, then, for being on top of things enough to know to be there even without Barney Baby.   Or to evan and whoever for her summoning.   I guess I ought to point out that circa 1968 is my danger zone.    1968 is my unwatched DS period, at least in recent years.   

[Misa]

Hi Magnus,

This is a bit Off topic, but I wanted to tell you that your drawings are fantastic.

Misa

[arashi]

I just read this thread for the first time and I think my brain is going to explode.

Nice timeline done by PennyDreadful, thanks for that.