unfavorable D.S. review

[Gerard]

The generalizations this gentleman made in his "review" are, of course, just that.  He basically pegged the performers as has-beens.  Several of them and others involved in DS went on to be either nominated for, or have won, Oscars, Emmys and Tonys.  

But one still wonders about the reason, since he was, at least before, a fan of the show.  Something obviously happened to him, and it seems that it occured at one of the fests (I've never been to one).  Undoubtedly, most who go have a wonderful time with the other fans, but I'm sure there are those occasional times when the one is picked by the thorn rather than experiencing the aroma of the rose.

We can all say from the intellect that one should not judge from one bad experience, and it's easy to say that, but when it happens, the emotions take over and that's understandable.  That's human nature.  And then there is a tendency to exaggerate the affair.  Sadly, for some, such a negative experience can not only turn one off from those who share the interest, but from the interest itself.  It becomes too painful, as the interest is now associated with those who did not behave in a more friendly or civilized manner.

We should maybe take that into account with regards to this gentleman.  Something did happen, and it hurt him to cause such a reaction.

Gerard

[Nancy]

The generalizations this gentleman made in his "review" are, of course, just that.  He basically pegged the performers as has-beens.  Several of them and others involved in DS went on to be either nominated for, or have won, Oscars, Emmys and Tonys.  

It's interesting the term "has-beens" isn't it? I've never really understood what the term meant.  If it refers to the fact that once time popular actors are not popular or don't work as actors anymore, that's a pretty limited and shallow view of the world.  Few people have a professional life that is consistently successful and most actors who do work in the business are never known at all ever to the general public.  Yet they will consider themselves very successful because they do work in their field or have at least had the experience in having some success in an enormously difficult and competitive field.  I think being able to work in one's chosen field at all is a great accomplishment, especially given the degree of difficulty in the arts.

Nobody is ever a "has been."  The talent is there and if that performer was able to touch even one person in a special way, it makes them forever memorable.

nancy

[dom]

Sweeping generalizations are usually very inaccurate or patently untrue. And vitriolic outbursts like this one, which offers nothing but subjective views tainted by an obviously negative experience, belong on Live Journal or--dare I say it--some unmoderated newsgroup, assuming it's necessary to devote the time to articulating it in the first place. Being anything but an objective commentary, it says an awful lot more about the writer than the video or the individuals on the video.

Well stated, Mark.

Personally, I found the review extremely unprofessional & uninformative. Unfortunately, many nonprofessional (internet) reviewers have a hidden (or not so hidden) agenda.

Dom

[Gerard]

It's interesting the term "has-beens" isn't it? I've never really understood what the term meant.  If it refers to the fact that once time popular actors are not popular or don't work as actors anymore, that's a pretty limited and shallow view of the world.  Few people have a professional life that is consistently successful and most actors who do work in the business are never known at all ever to the general public.  Yet they will consider themselves very successful because they do work in their field or have at least had the experience in having some success in an enormously difficult and competitive field.  I think being able to work in one's chosen field at all is a great accomplishment, especially given the degree of difficulty in the arts.

Nobody is ever a "has been."  The talent is there and if that performer was able to touch even one person in a special way, it makes them forever memorable.

nancy

Well said, Nancy.  I always take the opportunity, if I find a DS performer/participant's website with the ability to send a message to congratulate them on their fine work, both past and present, and to tell them how grateful I am for making my youth so much more marvelous by enjoying all they did back then.

Gerard

[Stuart]

Without wishing to be too blunt, I think the author of that review needs to look more to himself than fandom at large.  

If he's so much better than the people he apparently condenscends upon in his ludicrous writings, he'd have better things to do with his time than post incoherent vitriol to a disinterested general audience.

Seriously -- let it go.  Life's too short and it's getting beyond the joke.  If you feel so superior to these people then why are you so badly and desperately craving their acknowledgement and attention?  It's pointless...

And never write off someone as a has-been unless you've actually "been" in the first place

[Raineypark]

I sincerely hope he's not under the impression that vituperative insults like "tragic people living in a fog bound dream world"  "mainly repressed nerdy types" and "having lived failed lives" are going to make him any more popular at the fests....?!?

Raineypark

[Joeytrom]

I am a friend of David's and he is not a troll!  I have been posting here as Joeytrom and Collins1796 so you can see I have never posted anything "trolllike".  Here is an example of what he refers to:
__________________________________________________________

There was a longtime DS fan/fest organizer who ran a Zine from 1985 to 1991.  He was good friends with a lot of the fest organizers until they started to torment him.

This is from the final issue of that zine #7 (January 1991):

Sadly there are a handful of people in fandom who do not want the EHS to continue.  This list is very short, but prestigious. I will not print their names but most of you know them without being told.  They are the people who dominate Dark Shadows fandom in a way no other fandom in America is dominated; who have a hand in virtually everything and seem determined to discredit or destroy anything they don't control.  They are the reason why half then prominent long time DS fans have dropped out of fandom, and why half of those who remain are bristling with bitter accusations.  They are the reason this magazine has taken so long to appear.

I have personally watched as members of this clique tried to stop us from securing interviews, disrupted an interview in progress and tried to bar us from convention space.  I have seen a letter to others on fandom warning to avoid associating with us and have listened for years as fans across the country advised me of false and malicious rumors being spread about the Sentinel's staff.

[Maria_Merriweather]

I read this person's review on the Barnes and Noble website. I was very offended by the reference to the stars  and fans of DS as "tragic people with failed lives". If he wanted to make points about rude or unfriendly people at the fests he could have done that without insulting the stars and fans. As stated before by another poster the review had little to do with the 30th Anniversary video. It seems to me that this is someone who wants to make trouble and I too would steer clear of this person.

[Bernie]

Well, I occasionally read the DS newsgroup, and there doesn't seem to be a dimes worth of difference between David's comments and some of those posted
by the trolls there.  I don't know why a tribute film should present it's subjects as has beens, all though, no doubt even the greatest of DS players would probably pale in comparison to the world renown Mr. Nahmod.

Sounds like he's bitter, and perhaps he shares some, or many of the same traits as the DS fans he likes to put down.  Whatever.  In any case, I'm not much a fan of generalizations, whether they emanate from the likes of Mr. Nahmod, or from some sheet wearing bigot who burns crosses.

From personal experience, all I can say is that some of the nicest, most intelligent, and interesting people I know are DS fans who are involved in lists and other DS related activities.

Bernie

[Midnite]

Let's PLEASE not attack the fan that wrote the review.

We're here to discuss all aspects of DS, of which fandom is a part, and that includes debating differing opinions.  But these forums are not a vehicle for attacking other fans.

As I said before, I agree that fan behavior can be problematic; HUMAN behavior can be problematic, and David has the right to express his opinions about fan behavior.  He has never trolled on this forum, and since we've already established that any problem he may have been involved in on other forums isn't an appropriate subject for conversation here, simply because he wrote a review that we might strongly disagree with doesn't make him a troll.

Agree or disagree with his opinion, but no more attacks or name calling.  Period.

[joe integlia]

thanks joeytrom for reminding me and bringing to everyones attention the EHS fanzine letter. then theres the southern california ds club presidents war with the festival and before that the shadowcon presidents war with the festival. so this has been going on for 20 years now.

[Nancy]

I agree with Midnite that everyone should be free to discuss the positive and negative aspects of fandom. However, obviously with the many repeat customers the festival has enjoyed for all these years, clearly the differences some fans have with each other is not a major issue.  I'm sure it is for some more than others if something directly impacts them but unfortunately the reality is the kind of crap that does go on is usually between the same people.  It's not a widespead problem.

I said this elsewhere: is it really such big news that people fight with each other?  Nothing that has been described here is peculiar to DS fandom. Nothing.  My primary interests have been in history and politics and for years I've been involved in forums and organizations and there are always the same group of people at odds with each other (and sometimes with everyone else) and there are always people who will complain about things that happened years ago giving the impression that it's still happening, when it's not.  People argue and fight, they can be ridiculous and petty. That happens everywhere.  It's not some special DS problem.
I'm sure I am not the only person here who has been extensively involved with other large groups of people over the years, and have seen this kind of thing go.

I have known people who were long time attendees of different conventions and every one of them who has ever attended a DS festival claimed it was more friendly and filled with less drama than what they had witnessed elsewhere.  I should add that these same people I'm talking about attended more than one DS festival so they were able to make the comparison over time.  Naturally, one convention may be more or less than another for a number of reasons.

I do wonder about the logic of complaining about fans being mean to one another and at the same time publicly ridicule fans in general.  If you object to cruelity and pettiness in others, then obviously object to it because you don't engage in it yourself, right?  

There isn't anyone in fandom you can prevent any person from contacting one of the actors for an interview or whatever.   Even if the actor doesn't act anymore, you can go through the unions to have a letter sent, or go through the unions to get a contact number.  The actors are very aware of DS BS and tend to make their own decisions and steer clear of any nonsense.   If that actor doesn't respond to a letter, then it was the actor's decision to not respond.  I have known several people who got in touch with actors for interviews and other projects and never once approached anyone known in fandom for their help.  
So nobody in fandom has that kind of power (except maybe in their own mind.


Nancy

[Miss_Winthrop]

Here's the direct link:

http://video.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?WRK=5540441&userid=32LENJF1H5

This guy has some serious issues.

And this individual is suggesting that DS fans get a life?  Well buddy, this is the life that I've chosen to have and I'm liking every minute of it!

[Craig_Slocum]

If you object to cruelity and pettiness in others, then obviously object to it because you don't engage in it yourself, right?

I agree, but there are those who can provoke even the "angels". Luckily those people are few, compared to all the nice ones in fandom. If I felt so badly about the stars and the fans, I would just leave fandom, why be miserable and make others miserable?    

[yendor]

The difference between fandom "now" and fandom "way back when" has more to do with proximity than anything else. In the old days, we were all pretty much isolated from one another...so we were definitely less likely to "fight" and throw star fits. Our connection developed because of the show and its sundry fan clubs. Speaking for myself, I corresponded with people like Bob Finocchio and Dot Money (now Dee Kearney), and we had a thriving little network going. But we rarely even spoke on the phone. Feelings and sensibilities are less likely to be hurt when your relationship is limited to letter-writing (and I mean REAL letters, too--not e-mails!).

Fandom is a whole different ball game now, from what I can gather. That's ok, though. Things develop, they go through stages, and it's all part of the glorious process of maturation. There's always a downside...but the heights are so exhilerating, they make those negatives look like gentle speed bumps.

So, I think the critic of DS fandom has every right to express his opinion. And we, as people who obviously enjoy and appreciate the show, should accept his experiences as legit. Frankly, I'm sorry he feels that way...but I won't stoop to calling him names or dismissing his views as insignificant.

As for the comment about being a "has-been," we've all pretty much heard that stuff before--and not necessarily about Dark Shadows. I remember a friend of mine who was laughing about a singer (BJ Thomas) who was "reduced" (his words) to appearing at county fairs. "Can you imagine?" my friend sniffed rather imperiously, "that guy actually had several #1 records! What a has-been!" My response floored him. "Yes, he has had several #1 records...and that meant BJ Thomas was the MOST POPULAR singer in America while his records were at the top. That's a significant achievement, in my opinion. Do you have anything in YOUR life that could even touch it?"  Well, my buddy was speechless. No, of course he had no such achievement.

So, there's no such thing as a "has-been." The folks on Dark Shadows achieved something very few (if any) of us will ever achieve. Within their collective lifetimes, they were part of an International phenomenon--something that will continue to thrill, entertain, and mesmerize generations. That, to me, is a definite ACHIEVEMENT.

I'll step off my soapbox, now. Hope this makes sense!

Rod