A Woman Scorned - The Great Angelique/Barnabas/Josette Affair

[Janet the Wicked]

In the midst of 1795. Haveing a debate with my better half concerning Barnabas' infidelity to his promised bride.
Was Barnabas wrong to have made love to servant Angelique while courting Josette? Was he wrong to expect Angelique to assume their affair was nothing more than a tryst?

[Lydia]

Josette wasn't Barnabas's promised bride at the time, and apparently he didn't even think Josette was even interested in him.  Still, it was wrong of him to dally with a servant girl.  In that time, all the males around him probably thought it was standard procedure, but Barnabas had modern ideas - for example, about Ben Stokes.

And yes, Barnabas was wrong to expect Angelique to assume their affair was nothing more than a tryst, but she was a fool to assume that it was anything more.  It's conceivable that Barnabas made it clear to Angelique that the tryst would go no further, and that Angelique just refused to believe him.  Angelique was exceptionally good at wishful thinking.

[michael c]

i'm never 100% sure of the timeline here.so barnabas had his dalliance with angelique before he actively began to court josette?

at the very least he was quite foolish never to think that perhaps the scorned servant in a moment of jealous pique might not say to her lady "guess what sister?i've been with your man!".

[Sunny_Collins]

I think Barnabas's affair with Angelique was an attempt on his part to rebel against his dominating father. Terrible as it sounds, I believe he used Angelique as a part in his youthful defiance.

In the heat of the moment he may have wanted to promise her all kinds of things, but realistically he knew any kind of permanent relationship with her was impossible.

For one thing, Joshua wouldn't allow it, and as much as Barnabas wanted to make his own decisions, I don't think he was courageous enough to so completely go against him. He's caught between wanting to be his own man, and wanting to make his father proud of him.

I think Angelique blew the whole affair out of proportion, reading more in to his words than was there. Should he have led her on? No. Was it wrong of him to pretend to care about her? Yes.

[Brandon Collins]

I'm not completely sure if it was adequately explained on the show that Barnabas had an affair with Angelique BEFORE he started courting Josette. It could've been during the courtship, or he and Josette could've broken up and Barnabas could've taken refuge in Angelique's waiting arms. The reason that many people think that it began before the fact, to my knowledge anyway, is because of Lara Parker's book, "Angelique Descent", in which she explains that Barnabas came to Martinique on a business trip with his father and had a dalliance with Angelique, then dumped her like a sack of potatoes and went with her mistress, Josette.

Personally, I always thought that Angelique read more into the relationship than what was really there, but it wasn't completely her fault. Barnabas could've led her on, and could've used her for a good time when he needed one while on the island, and then never formally broke things off with her, just kind of left her by the wayside while he turned his sights to Josette. Of course, to assume that Barnabas used Angelique at all would be kind of going against his character because he was being portrayed on the show as morally righteous. Then again, he did kill his Uncle, who was raised as his brother and was his best friend. So, shit happens I guess.

It is possible, as Sunny Collins said, that maybe Barnabas had the tryst with Angelique to go against his domineering father. I'm not sure that's what he really did. It's kind of hard for me to believe that Barnabas would take such a radical action, given the rational guy he was before he was turned into a vampire. But young people do stupid things, and Barnabas is no different. There's no telling what he did before we saw him in 1795. I mean, didn't he say that he lusted after Laura Collins, Jeremiah's first wife, when telling Sandor the story of Laura in 1897? So if he lusted after her, then there was definitely sin in his heart as defined by biblical terms and what many people believe.

For me personally, I like to believe that Barnabas and Angelique had a fling, that he dropped her when he caught sight of Josette, her mistress, and that's how Angelique's scornful ways began. Because basically what Barnabas did, if he did do that, was tell Angelique that he wasn't good enough for him because she wasn't rich and wasn't the daughter of a respectable man. If that's not a big slap in the face, I don't know what is.

[Midnite]

I'm not completely sure if it was adequately explained on the show that Barnabas had an affair with Angelique BEFORE he started courting Josette. It could've been during the courtship, or he and Josette could've broken up and Barnabas could've taken refuge in Angelique's waiting arms.

It was made pretty clear in this conversation in Barnabas' room on Angelique's first night in America:

A:  You're so different here.  You're as cold as that wind outside your house.

B:  I am not cold, but I want to be.  I have to be.

A:  Why?

B:  Because, Angelique, I didn't know that we were going to be married then.  To be honest, I thought I was in love with Josette but I didn't realize she was in love with me.  But now that we've written, (pause) well, you and I... It's impossible.

In that same scene, he blamed his own weakness for their affair and admitted that he continued to think of her after leaving Martinique.  I'm certain his dalliance with Angelique was borne out of passion and not rebellion.

[Angelique Wins]

It was made pretty clear in this conversation in Barnabas' room on Angelique's first night in America:

A:  You're so different here.  You're as cold as that wind outside your house.

B:  I am not cold, but I want to be.  I have to be.

A:  Why?

B:  Because, Angelique, I didn't know that we were going to be married then.  To be honest, I thought I was in love with Josette but I didn't realize she was in love with me.  But now that we've written, (pause) well, you and I... It's impossible.

In that same scene, he blamed his own weakness for their affair and admitted that he continued to think of her after leaving Martinique.  I'm certain his dalliance with Angelique was was borne out of passion and not rebellion.

I agree with Midnite, and of course, this scene.  And later, when Barnabas offered himself to Angelique if she would only stop the curse, he promised (and he told Julia later) something like, "to get back what we had in the beginning."  That's not a quote--I don't have the tape or DVD--but I always thought that second scene sort of confirmed that Angelique wasn't just a one-night dalliance.

Judy

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I mean, didn't he say that he lusted after Laura Collins, Jeremiah's first wife, when telling Sandor the story of Laura in 1897?

Well, not quite. Barnabas told Charity that when he first saw Laura when he was a child of ten, he felt there could never be a more beautiful woman - but an appreciation of beauty doesn't necessarily imply lust - not to mention that most ten-year-olds wouldn't have anything approaching the lustful thoughts of adults, if they would even be having any sort of lustful thoughts at all.    And in the crypt after opening her grave, Barn and Sandor only discussed the circumstances surrounding Laura's death.

[adamsgirl]

I'm with AngeliqueWins on this one. I think Barnabas truly cared for Angelique. Going further, in my opinion, he convinced himself he loved Josette simply because she was the "right" match for him socially, and Angelique was not. In fact, if you think about how completely obsessed he was later on with Josette, it makes even more sense. He was so determined NOT to be wrong about loving Josette, he stuck to it like anyone trapped in a delusion would be.

In that scene where he visits Angelique's room, ostensibly to tell her that there was no hope, the one MB referred to, he obviously can't resist her. He grabs her and lays one on her very passionately. I saw that not just as lust, but as a man really hungry for the woman he truly loved, one who'd missed her desperately. That he tried valiantly to ignore it is true, but he wasn't very successful at that point. This, of course, fueled Angelique's fury even more.

To me, Josette was so wrong for him. She was a bit of an airhead and a pampered, spoiled child. Angelique was every inch a woman and very much his match, IMHO.

[Gothick]

Unfortunately they never did a flashback showing us the circumstances of Barnabas' original liaison with Angelique.  (And it's a pity they didn't, because I'm sure Frid and Parker would have blown the roof off the studio in such a scene!)  So, it's up to the viewer to interpret the various things that Barnabas and Angelique say to one another--and to other characters--about their trysts in Martinique.

In evaluating those various scenes, I for one bear in mind that Barnabas showed himself to be a master in the fine art of rationalization when it came to his own needs, while Angelique already seemed old in the arts of cunning when we first see her as an apparently demure lady's maid in 1795.  So, I pretty much find it impossible to take ANYTHING that either of them says about the situation of their original affair at face value.

For what it's worth, my interpretation is that Barnabas used Angelique for physical gratification, as so many of his peers did with other servants in 18th century genteel society.  Judging from things she says to Ben fairly early on in 1795 about intending to get for herself EVERYTHING that Mam'selle Josette has, I view Angelique as having been amibitious from the start (I would hesitate to call her a gold-digger, though) and seeing a way into upward social mobility through matrimony with Barnabas.

One also needs to bear in mind that folk ethics around pre-marital sex were probably a LOT more fluid in tropical Martinique than was the case in Maine.

Again, just speaking for myself, I don't think Barnabas ever really "cared" for Angelique, although in that initial scene in 1795 you can see him trying to be somewhat gracious with her, initially.  He doesn't really get rude until it becomes clear that she is not taking "no" for an answer.  As for Angelique, I would describe her attachment to Barnabas as obsession--not love. I see a lot of it, particularly the original 1795 narrative, as being about her injured pride and her need for the validation of higher status in genteel society, than about the pure affections of her sweetly adoring heart.   I'll leave it at that because we've already gone over all of this a million times in the past.

G.

[Midnite]

In that scene where he visits Angelique's room, ostensibly to tell her that there was no hope, the one MB referred to, he obviously can't resist her. He grabs her and lays one on her very passionately. I saw that not just as lust, but as a man really hungry for the woman he truly loved, one who'd missed her desperately. That he tried valiantly to ignore it is true, but he wasn't very successful at that point.

Assuming you mean the scene I posted (since MB's post refers to another time period), it took place in Barn's room and occurred in the ep previous to the one in which he visits her quarters and kisses her.  But anyway, I do agree that the kiss was passionate, but I don't equate the passion he felt for Angelique with love; far from it. 

[Brandon Collins]

Again, just speaking for myself, I don't think Barnabas ever really "cared" for Angelique, although in that initial scene in 1795 you can see him trying to be somewhat gracious with her, initially.  He doesn't really get rude until it becomes clear that she is not taking "no" for an answer.  As for Angelique, I would describe her attachment to Barnabas as obsession--not love. I see a lot of it, particularly the original 1795 narrative, as being about her injured pride and her need for the validation of higher status in genteel society, than about the pure affections of her sweetly adoring heart.   I'll leave it at that because we've already gone over all of this a million times in the past.

With what Midnite posted regarding that scene in Angelique's room, that I had obviously forgotten about, it changes much of what I originally said. That conversation truly leads me to believe that Barnabas and Josette had already begun dating, and since he felt that she didn't return his love, he got discouraged at one point and decided to look for love in all the wrong places

And as for what I quoted above from what Gothick said, I think Barnabas and Angelique's entire relationship revolved around obsession about something. Barnabas slept with Angelique, then dumped her because he started obsessing over his love for Josette, perhaps trying to convince himself that he truly did love Josette and NOT Angelique because he knew that Angelique was below him and he'd be frowned upon for loving her. This caused Angelique's long obsession over gaining Barnabas' love by any means necessary, which led to Barnabas obsession for blood, and for saving the Collins family, blah blah blah, bringing us finally to the conclusion of their story in 1840 when Angelique is shot, Barnabas realizes he loves her, confesses that love, end of obsessions, and let's move on.

Barn and Ang tried to start a new trend--obsession is better than love. Unfortunately for them, it didn't really work out until those final brief moments before Angelique's death.

[Sunny_Collins]

I believe there is an episode shortly after Angelique arrives at Collinwood, in which barnabas says he promised her nothing, and she responds with something like, "Not all promises are made with words."

Not sure, however...  :-

[Lydia]

I believe there is an episode shortly after Angelique arrives at Collinwood, in which barnabas says he promised her nothing, and she responds with something like, "Not all promises are made with words."

Not sure, however...  :-

That was in 1968, if I remember correctly,


Spoiler:

when Barnabas was in Angelique's vampire power.

[Janet the Wicked]

What do you think about Angelique harming Sarah because Barnabas refused her love?
Was she in the right when she turned Barnabas into a vampire in the end?