DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '04 II => Topic started by: Mysterious Benefactor on July 15, 2004, 07:31:37 PM
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The Sci-Fi Wire has posted an item about the WB pilot in which WB chairman, Garth Ancier, places the failure of the pilot at the feet of director P J Hogan. He also claims that if John Wells had tried to persuade the WB to move forward with the series despite their disappointment with the finished pilot, the WB would have - but Wells never approached them. Hmmm...
You can read the entire piece here (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-07/15/11.45.tv).
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Huh. sounds like backpedalling to me, plus ye passing of ye olde bucke...
G.
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I think the entire article makes everyone involved sound like an idiot.
Garth Ancier says "It was wonderfully produced by John Wells,...very well written". But then he says it just didn't "gel the way we hoped it would".
What does that mean, exactly? Were the actors hopeless?...the sets hideous?.....the costumes appalling? What?!!
Then he goes on to praise Rob Goldman, the director who was supposed to do it......but they lost him along the way and ended up with another director who, despite being "accomplished" in movie making, apparently didn't know how to make a TV pilot. So who takes the blame for hiring someone who didn't know how to make TV pilots?
And just to be sure no one understands this mess at all, he concludes by referring to the pilot as "unsalvageable" ....but then seems to lay all the responsibility on John Wells for not wanting to go forward...implying that if he had, it would have happened.
With an "unsalvageable" pilot?
These people all make extraordinary amounts of money for what they do. Is it too much to ask for them to own up to mistakes made, choices botched, and failures produced?
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I am too equally confused about all this.
First why did John Wells abandoned the finished Pilot? Was Wells so professionally embarrassed by the finished product that he knew that this pilot could never be fixed and/or sell it to another network as filmed?
Maybe the WB should blame itself because I thought that the WB forced Hogan on the DS producers after not wanting Curtis to direct the pilot.
Next question. Is it too late for Wells to ask the WB to have the pilot re-filmed with a new director?
I noticed that nothing was mentioned about the WB's efforts(if any) to shop the pilot to another network. Interesting.
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Rob Goldman? ??? Shouldn't that be Bowman?
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Rob Goldman? ??? Shouldn't that be Bowman?
Hi Midnite. Yes Ancier should have said Bowman if he did say the incorrect name. Not sure what to make of Ancier. Is he telling the public the truth when he said, in effect, that Wells simply walked away after seeing the completed filmed pilot and never had any discussions with the WB to try to fix some of the problems and if he did we would have a new Dark Shadows series?. I would have to assume that there must have been something that was salvageable in the pilot. Ancier does seem to be telling us the truth somewhat when he said that the pilot's direction was not so great ( Jim Pierson recently stated on a radio broadcast that there were some things that Hogan did that worked and some things that did not work).
I also find it difficult to believe that Wells would have also simply walked away and abandoned Dan Curtis.
I just want to believe that Dan Curtis is not giving up on this project.
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It's Goldman in the article.
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I would have to assume that there must have been something that was salvageable in the pilot. Ancier does seem to be telling us the truth somewhat when he said that the pilot's direction was not so great ( Jim Pierson recently stated on a radio broadcast that there were some things that Hogan did that worked and some things that did not work).
Hi, jimbo. Thanks for letting us know what Pierson said. Hopefully the broadcast will be archived on the website in the next few days, but I was really just interested in the part about the new DS. ;)
The Hartford Courant article that Stuart summarized on his news (http://www.collinwood.net/news) page gives us the same party line in regard to putting the blame on Hogan and there being "no salvageable scenes." I'm not trying to step on Stuart's toes, but I was anxious to see the comments in context and if anyone else is interested in reading the full article go to: WB Isn't Aiming Just For Young Crowd Anymore (http://www.ctnow.com/features/lifestyle/hc-wb.artjul15,0,34763.story).
Anyway, the comments in the 2 articles do seem to be in direct opposition to the review on the Creature Corner site by the viewer who called it terrific and had mostly positive things to say about it.
I also find it difficult to believe that Wells would have also simply walked away and abandoned Dan Curtis.
I just want to believe that Dan Curtis is not giving up on this project.
So, was it shopped around or not, and if so, who did the shopping-- Wells or DCP?
Questions, questions. ::)
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Hi, jimbo. Thanks for letting us know what Pierson said. Hopefully the broadcast will be archived on the website in the next few days, but I was really just interested in the part about the new DS. ;)
The Hartford Courant article that Stuart summarized on his (URL) page gives us the same party line in regard to putting the blame on Hogan and there being "no salvageable scenes." I'm not trying to step on Stuart's toes, but I was anxious to see the comments in context and if anyone else is interested in reading the full article go to: (URL).
Anyway, the comments in the 2 articles do seem to be in direct opposition to the review on the Creature Corner site by the viewer who called it terrific and had mostly positive things to say about it.
You are welcome midnite. Wish there was more to report but the interviewer asked the question about the new DS Pilot with only a minute left in the Q&A and he actually cut off Pierson as the time expired. Jim also added that there were some creative differences within the pilot's production.
Thanks for the link.I do find it very hard to believe Ancier when he said "that there were no salvageable scenes". There obviously must have been some real good scenes as the writer reflected at the Creature Corner. That is why, in addition to my previous statements, it seems to me that Ancierhas some credibility issues. I do not believe he is telling us the complete truth and/or has left out some pertinent details. He is making Hogan and Wells look like some unprofessional clueless fools.
So, was it shopped around or not, and if so, who did the shopping-- Wells or DCP?
Questions, questions. ::)
That is a good question. If the WB believed that there were no salvageable scenes, I doubt very much that they attempted to shop this pilot to the networks.
The truth is out there. lol
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Some back pettling has also been done regarding the cancellation of Angel here (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-tv.html?2004-07/15/12.10.tv). Now Garth Ancier blames 20th Century for demanding an early answer to Angel's renewal. Makes me believe there is no end to the spin here. Angel fans are heating up their coffee.... ;)
It makes me pause and wonder if this guy is telling the truth or not. These comments were said at the fall press "preview" or spin show as the case may be.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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Some back pettling has also been done regarding the cancellation of Angel (URL). Now Garth Ancier blames 20th Century for demanding an early answer to Angel's renewal. Makes me believe there is no end to the spin here. Angel fans are heating up their coffee.... ;)
It makes me pause and wonder if this guy is telling the truth or not. These comments were said at the fall press "preview" or spin show as the case may be.
Well, the WB always claimed that they want at least one vampire show on its schedule. I am not sure if Angel's top actors would want to to a TV movie as opposed to a theatrical version.
Perhaps DCP and JWP and the WB can all chip in a million dollars each to reshoot the "unsalvageable scenes" in the pilot with Dan Curtis directing.
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I'm not trying to step on Stuart's toes, but I was anxious to see the comments in context...
Quite right too - wherever possible, I always link direct to any reports quoted to make the reporting as transparent as I can.
As for the pilot, there's certainly some spin at work here, but that's pretty inevitable. Between a change of regime, a shift in network policy, and a large amount of money spent on the production, I can understand why it's not being taken further.
Even were the incentive to reshoot there, investing another $3-5m on a project they clearly already have reservations about is somewhat unlikely. It's easy for us as fans to speculate on costly reshoots, but we don't have our careers and the responsibility of multi-million budgets hanging over us. Added to that, as time ticks on, I think the window for a salvage operation is rapidly diminishing, as those involved are swiftly moving on to other things.
I think sometimes, through no real fault of anyone, a project just doesn't come together. Irrespective of the quality of what was shot, or the work of those involved, I suspect that was the case here.
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As for the pilot, there's certainly some spin at work here, but that's pretty inevitable. Between a change of regime, a shift in network policy, and a large amount of money spent on the production, I can understand why it's not being taken further.
Even were the incentive to reshoot there, investing another $3-5m on a project they clearly already have reservations about is somewhat unlikely. It's easy for us as fans to speculate on costly reshoots, but we don't have our careers and the responsibility of multi-million budgets hanging over us. Added to that, as time ticks on, I think the window for a salvage operation is rapidly diminishing, as those involved are swiftly moving on to other things.
I think sometimes, through no real fault of anyone, a project just doesn't come together. Irrespective of the quality of what was shot, or the work of those involved, I suspect that was the case here.
I agree Stuart that sometimes a project for whatever reason does not gel. All we are left with is what if type of questions-what if Dan Curtis or Bowman had directed the pilot, etc....
I am also concerned about the black eye/negative press Dark Shadows has received in the media. I do not know the extent of this damage will have on pending or future Dark Shadows projects. Studios and networks may not want to hear about another DS revival for many years to come and that is very unfortunate. I do not know how but the DS producers need to do some type of damage control immediately. Besides the cancellations of both shows, this is a sad time for DS fandom and we can use something real positive here. Thank goodness the Fest is only a short time away.
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Can I ask a naive question?
Do the actors get paid even if it's never seen?
Thanks,
Patti
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Hopefully the broadcast will be archived on the website in the next few days
To download the Sci-Fi Overdrive broadcast --
http://www.interstellartransmissions.com
Select SFOD
Look for July 12
Click Hour Three: Jim Pierson - Dark Shadows
I was really just interested in the part about the new DS. ;)
It's at the end of the interview. Regarding the finished product, Jim sez:
"The pilot was shot as a 1 hour program for the WB and they were very high on it. And unfortunately, creatively, the end result did not come out the way we had all hoped for. And, the director of the pilot ended up being a feature guy named P.J. Hogan and he went for some different looks, and some of it worked and some of it didn't." <Time ran out and he never did answer the question he was asked, which was if the show is being shipped to another network.>
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Hi Patti, the answer is YES; the actors get paid for their work in the movie.
I imagine if there is ever a DVD release, they'll get some residuals from that as well, but it sounds as if TPTB want to hide the movie in a black hole. I'm very curious now as to whether the announced "preview" is going to happen at the Festival Weekend. My purely amateur, totally uninformed guess is that that particular event will be quietly canceled.
At this point, *I'm* curious to have a look at it, though. First they said it was the most wonderful thing since the Walton's Family Xmas; now they claim it was crapola?
Makes you wonder whether you can get a severe spinal injury from back-peddling at that acute an angle.
G.
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Makes you wonder whether you can get a severe spinal injury from back-peddling at that acute an angle.
One would hope so.
Here is a link from Fangoria hot off the press where Todd McIntosh, make up artist shares some insights into the pilot and has some pixs to share of some of the make-up he did.
Fangoria News (http://www.fangoria.com/news_article.php?id=2544)
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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That's a really interesting little piece, Victoria. Thanks for sharing it. It does sound as if the "preview" is still on the cards--I do hope we get to see this.
I personally find that make-up artist's work beyond OTT, but he won me over with his obvious devotion to Dark Shadows. That did look like Alec Newman in the top photo.
My apologies to fans of the English language (a once popular tongue, gradually wiped out in the late twentieth century)--my original post should have spelled the phrase "back-pedaling," though I suppose there's a certain macabre justice to the way my fingers insisted upon spelling it.
G.
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On the heels of Jordan Levin's departure, the WB's senior VP for programming and scheduling, John Litvack, announced today that he's leaving as well.
None of you have been modeling voodoo dolls from clay in the likeness of WB execs, have you? Just thought I'd ask... :P
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On the heels of Jordan Levin's departure, the WB's senior VP for programming and scheduling, John Litvack, announced today that he's leaving as well.
None of you have been modeling voodoo dolls from clay in the likeness of WB execs, have you? Just thought I'd ask... :P
Not I. Now, if I knew how..............................
Speaking of Jordan Levin I was wondering if he actually impeded DS from going to series. I read again the Scifi article MB posted here and it seems this could have been the case. The head of the WB, Garth Ancier, seems to give the appearance-ok he said it, that if John Wells came back to him
he would be willing to place DS on its schedule. I would have to guess that Ancier may have been spinning a bit there, but I believe at the very minimum, he has opened the door for the DS producers to try to convince him to give them another chance. Hope he is a man of his word and that the DS producers do not drop the ball. It is not too often you get another chance at a rejected pilot.
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Not Voodoo dolls, Midnite......Poppets... ;)
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Here is a link from Fangoria hot off the press
Thanks so much for the link, vw - great article and pix!
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Well just in case the WB would be willing to continue with Dark Shadows if John Wells still wanted to work on it; here is Wells address. I hope some of us will write to him to let him know how much we would like to see a new Dark Shadows series.
John Wells Productions
4000 Warner Blvd.
Bldg.1
Burbank, California 91522
Misa
Edited by Midnite
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Thanks for the link,,,,very interesting.
But, IMHO, too 'gory'; wanted more of an atmospheric piece....not so much in your face BOO!!!
(Thank opening scene, if played orig...VW having a dream where Halloween kid turns into a past-victim sounds very good.)
Patti
PS...Steve, I don't know about you, but I speak American; a dialect of English, yada yada, fersure fersure!!
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TV Guide Online's Matt Roush is asked about the DS remake in today's Ask Matt (http://www.tvguide.com/tv/roush/askmatt/) column.