DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '05 II => Topic started by: retzev on December 15, 2005, 06:13:47 AM
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here...I'm really starting to feel sorry for poor old Roger Davis.
I began watching about 3 years ago, and I've thought from the beginning that he was not a good actor - basically a one-trick pony with a pretty lame trick. And that hair-do. I can't stop staring at it. Whenever he's on screen, my eyes want to "figure it out" like it's some sort of optical illusion...
But, MAN! I had no idea the poor sap was the object of so much contempt and ridicule until I began frequenting these boards!
Mere mention of his name elicits choruses of hissing and moans, peals of laughter. I've heard of people getting up and walking out when he takes the stage at festivals, fans making fun of his bride...
...DAMN !
I'm starting to feel quite fortunate that he doesn't have as much of a negative affect on me. With as many episodes as he's in, I don't know if I could stand it.
And, perhaps partly because of the amount of derision he receives, I'm developing a mild fondness for the guy. The sympathetic sort of affection you have for an underdog, you know? And I've always enjoyed b-films and drive-in flicks with acting just as bad, so, I just try to appreciate him with that sort of aesthetic whenever he shows up.
He's not all that bad.
Craig Slocum, on the other hand...
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On the TV series, he was never a favorite of mine, but I do think he comes off rather well in HODS -- restrained and effective. I do recall his saying that his exaggerated physical bits were his way of compensating/covering when he didn't know his lines. I guess his discomfort didn't work to his advantage, the way Frid's worked to his.
And, I suspect that pitching time shares at the Fests hasn't exactly endeared him to anyone... [santa_grin]
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Mere mention of his name elicits choruses of hissing and moans, peals of laughter. I've heard of people getting up and walking out when he takes the stage at festivals, fans making fun of his bride...
...DAMN !
I can't say that I've ever witnessed or even read where anyone made fun of his former wife (the one you referenced in your earlier thread), but you might come away with a deeper understanding of why many DS fans feel the way they do about him if you try searching through some of the older posts. I think you might find a few quite illuminating...
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Mere mention of his name elicits choruses of hissing and moans, peals of laughter. I've heard of people getting up and walking out when he takes the stage at festivals, fans making fun of his bride...
...DAMN !
I can't say that I've ever witnessed or even read where anyone made fun of his former wife (the one you referenced in your earlier thread)
Read that thread again, I think you'll see what I mean -
you might come away with a deeper understanding of why many DS fans feel the way they do about him if you try searching through some of the older posts. I think you might find a few quite illuminating...
I'd really rather not. There's alot of jerk-offs out there walking around, and it's more than possible that Roger Davis is one of them, but I'd rather not know. When I'm watching a scene with Jeff Clark, I don't want my mind cluttered with thoughts of why Roger Davis is a moron.
By the same token , I love Sean Penn's acting but I wish he would keep his politics to himself. It makes it that much more difficult for me to believe him as Spicoli when I'm watching Fast Times, you know?
I just made reservations for the '06 Fest, I hope Davis isn't there making an ass of himself...
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I always felt Roger Davis had a distinctive voice - and apparently voice-over work kept him employed beyond his DS years (time share hawking aside - chuckle). I'm also partial to the beautiful-yet-unpretentious Jaclyn Smith, who was once married to Roger, so if she saw something in the guy (enough to say "I do"), he had more than meets the eye.
And ultimately, his role as Dirk Wilkins in the 1897 storyline gave him some meat to chew, considering his Jeff Clark, Peter Bradford, and Ned Stuart characters were innocuous and bland at best.
I met Roger at one of the west coast DS conventions (where I also had the pleasure of meeting our beloved Midnite), and knowing he was friends with Don Briscoe, I cornered him for a scoop. Don was still alive at the time, and Roger Davis had spoken to Don recently. Davis regarded me not as a crazed Briscoe groupie, but as someone who was genuinely interested in the whereabouts and welfare of his friend (Roger and Don had met in college), and his rapport was friendly and earnest. For that, he has my respect.
In a book I read, Lara Parker remarked how Alexandra Moltke hated doing scenes with Roger (Davis, not Collins), but given she was so sedate, and he played everything so frantic, the chemistry was off - still, they were constantly paired up. His best scenes seemed to be with Frid, Lara Parker, and Grayson Hall - their theatrical intensities kept him grounded and his hair in place.
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I was pissed off at Roger Davis (when I didn't know a thing about the guy or his reputation) when I saw him making in fun of Jonathan Frid regarding the usual "forgetting" line business on a DS reunion tape. I thought he sounded like a real jerk and wanted to scream that it was because of Mr. Forgettful that Roger Davis had the job in the first place. My understanding is that DS, before Frid, was about to be cancelled. That being said I've always enjoyed him as Peter Bradford (his best DS role I think) where he was somewhat gentle, sensitive and soft-spoken. As Peter Bradford he had a refreshingly wide-eyed western quality about him and radiated integrity. But, he started to pick up bad habits as Jeff Clark and I was pretty indifferent to him after that. Didn't like him as the 1897 artist either. Judging from his earlier DS work he had acting potential but his personality got in the way.
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I wonder how long RD would have stayed on DS if someone else was the executive producer.
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.....hissing, moans and peals of laughter......
I have never liked his acting in DS and then as stefan has said, when he started in on Mr. Frid, well 'them are fightin' words'.
Mr. Frid had made it possible for you, Mr. (and I use this lightly) Davis to have a job. I think you should thank 'Mr. Forgettful'.
stefan was right.....you sounded like a real jerk, and that's also putting it lightly
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Mere mention of his name elicits choruses of hissing and moans, peals of laughter. I've heard of people getting up and walking out when he takes the stage at festivals, fans making fun of his bride...
That would be me! I started walking out on him after he harassed Johnny Karlen onstage in '94. Johnny turned his back on him on and Dennis Patrick told him to "go back to your tee-shirts!" [santa_thumb] When he tried to upstage Louie Edmonds in '97, and subsequently made Nancy Barrett a WRECK back-stage before her first Fest appearance ever, we were back-stage w/her working security and she was pacing like a caged animal and cursing the man, is when I wrote him off altogether.
He's not all that bad. Craig Slocum, on the other hand...
LOL, yes, Slocum was pretty bad. ;)
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I just made reservations for the '06 Fest, I hope Davis isn't there making an ass of himself...
He won't be, he swore he'd never come to another Fest. His loss is our gain, LOL! ;)
Edited by moderators
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I'm also partial to the beautiful-yet-unpretentious Jaclyn Smith, who was once married to Roger, so if she saw something in the guy (enough to say "I do"), he had more than meets the eye.
Funny someone should bring Jaclyn Smith's opinion of him up because, back in the Charlie's Angels days, one of her stipulations was that her marriage to RD not be brought up during interviews (ironically, some interviews brought up the very stipulation against the subject they were supposed to avoid ::)). But on the very rare occassions when she did address the subject, it was usually to say that she considered that period of her life to have been a nightmare that she was very glad to have woken up from. Some later articles on Smith go so far as to say that she doesn't even count her union with RD as one of her marriages. So, take from all that what you will...
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My understanding is that DS, before Frid, was about to be cancelled.
Though many articles certainly give that impression (along with many other erroneous impressions ::)), it may not be entirely true. The truth was that ABC gave DS an alotted amount of time (I believe it was 26 weeks) to improve its ratings or be canceled. However, the ratings began to climb slowly once the supernatural stuff really began to be incorporated into the show - they climbed even higher during the Laura storyline - and, of course, they climbed still further once Barnabas was introduced. We'll probably never know if ABC would have considered the pre-Barnabas rise strong enough for the show to have avoided cancellation because the alotted time for improvement ran into Barnabas' introduction, but there had been definite improvement before him. It's also interesting to note that the increased viewership of early-Barnabas over the non-supernatural DS was only a million viewers (10 million vs. 9 million) and was still far short of what viewership would be even a year later (16 million)...
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I'm really not a big Roger Davis fan. I've never liked Peter Bradford (whiny and cloying), Jeff Clark (whiny and directionless), or Charles Delaware Tate (whiny, directionless, and part of the wretched Amanda Harris crap) very much, but (and I'll be scorned and denounced for saying this) I DO like Ned Stuart. Davis' corrosive personality went well with the obnoxious and irritating Stuart, and he really gave Chris, Barnabas, and Julia a turn when he constantly hounded them for information...and that one scene with Julia, Sabrina, and Ned was priceless, IMO: "I'll give you the bill" indeed! It's too bad Davis didn't continue on with Ned after the return to 1969/1970, but at least his absence spared poor Lisa Richards more maulings.
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Smoochies to Sandor [santa_kiss]
It's a shame RD never realized during his years on DS that shouting is not effective acting.
A friendly reminder-- The Forum guidelines are very specific about gossip (see #7). If someone representing DS has a casual and private discussion with DS fans that's totally removed from any public event, the personal info shared with the fans would qualify as gossip and shouldn't be repeated here without permission. To use a DS Fest as an example, what is shared in the autograph line, in the dealer's room, on stage, in an interview for publication, while publicly entertaining a group of fans-- those are fine; but conversations held in private, at or outside of the Fest, should afford the DS personnel a degree of privacy when it comes to their personal info.
Please, just use your judgment, and if you're unsure, it can't hurt to ask for permission to repeat it on the internet. Otherwise, it may be subject to removal. Thanks!
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when i first got into the show about four years ago i too was somewhat shocked at the level of hostility directed at roger davis...until i got to his storyline.
funny.peter bradford didn't bother me at all.but as soon as he came back as jeff clark he drove me insane!
perhaps it's not entirely mr.davis' fault.the character was supposed to be confused and frustrated because he didn't know who he was.but the way it played he always seemed angry.he then carried that trait from role to role and that's why i always see him as jeff clark no matter what character he's playing.
the fact that he was paired upon arrival with alexandra didn't do him any favors either.their acting styles were too different.her placidness contrasted to his beligerence was jarring.
another reason he might be so reviled is that there is a widely held belief in fandom that alexandra disliked working with him intensely and that he might have been a contributing factor in her decision to leave the show.
whether or not that's true only the key participants really know but grudges run deep with d.s. because the fans are so loyal to the characters they loved.
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I just don't see singling him out for poor acting. He seemed solid and competent, as much as the rest. I don't think of him as yelling a lot. I'm missing a chunk in the middle of DS, 1968 mainly. Anyway, I enjoy the fact that he enjoys going crazy on-screen so much. I've said this elsewhere, but I love the scene where Dirk is gloating over Judith, when he's about to bite her. "Our relationship us about to change!" I like Tate. I like that he's a coiled spring who doesn't quite know what form it's going to take when he explodes. My background is in art and I can identify with him more than with Sam Evans, I guess. Insane 100-year-old Tate in 1970 was a scream.
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I adore Roger Davis. He's my favorite actor. He has the greatest voice. Looks to swoon over and all that good stuff.....
He may be the biggest jerk on the planet. I don't know. I would sure like to meet him and find out. Too bad he won't attend the Fest. I was hoping he would. I am still going to make reservations. Because either way I will still have a great weekend in New York. Though one would be preferred over the other.
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Now I feel kinda bad for ragging his acting! I assumed that's what everyones's beef with him was - couldn't have been more wrong it seems [nuts]
Like I said, he's growing on me...
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Now I feel kinda bad for ragging his acting! I assumed that's what everyones's beef with him was - couldn't have been more wrong it seems
Oh, not necessarily. You see, there are many levels where RD is concerned. [santa_wink]
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My dislike of RD started simply because I didn't like his characters. I didn't like Peter Bradford in 1795, although perhaps that was a decent performance by him compared to the others. I just didn't care about the character and I didn't like that they paired Vicki up with him. But with 1795, I ignored him because I was more interested in Barnabas's story and that was the main focus anyway. Then when Jeff Clark came on screen I was forced to notice him more. As Jeff Clark, he always seems to be on the verge of exploding in anger no matter what the scene. The character was irritating, and it seemed that all of his characters that followed were played exactly the same. His acting was very one note to me.
I've never cared for him, and it was that way before I knew/heard anything about him outside of his characters.
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Though many articles certainly give that impression (along with many other erroneous impressions ), it may not be entirely true. The truth was that ABC gave DS an alotted amount of time (I believe it was 26 weeks) to improve its ratings or be canceled.
Well. I think it can be at least be deducted that Jonathan Frid contributed more to the popularity of the show than Roger Davis did. And, in fact wasn't it the Barnabas 1795 story that introduced Roger Davis in he first place as Jeff Clark? I still think Davis' comments were in bad taste considering and to speak so in a public taped forum on a stage with his fellow co-workers. Yikes!
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the fact that he was paired upon arrival with alexandra didn't do him any favors either.their acting styles were too different.her placidness contrasted to his beligerence was jarring.
I wonder if it exactly for this reason that Davis toned down his act considerably as Peter Bradford when he first started. Since Homolka was one of the stars I guess he might have been insecure enough or pressured enough to give sensitive modulated readings just to be in sync with her. I really do like him as Peter and enjoyed their chemistry (though the witch trial was dull all around).
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as Jeff Clark
ooops, I mean as Peter Bradford. I wish people were given more time to edit their posts. It seems just like after two seconds your time is up for corrections [santa_undecided]
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I wish people were given more time to edit their posts. It seems just like after two seconds your time is up for corrections
I hear you, stefan, but you can preview posts indefinitely before submitting them. Then you've got 120 secs. to make a first edit, and 120 secs. after that, etc. The mods can see if you're still working on a post and thus wait to read it. (At longer than 120 secs., we ran into problems with posters returning to edit posts after they'd already been moderated.)
Can you please attribute your quotes to their authors, especially if they're from another page?
Since Homolka was one of the stars
I don't understand. [santa_huh]
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Since Homolka was one of the stars
I don't understand
Oh boy, I am out of it. Pardon me but just got through mid-terms and papers from graduate school and am probably not quite "in the world" yet. I meant Alexandra Moltka. Sorry!
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I never much cared for any of RD's acting in the show; I thought he was okay in HoDS, but that's probably because he didn't have any scenes long enough to become tiresome. ;) I did spend some time shooting the sh!t with him at a couple of the DS gatherings, and found him quite cordial (and he didn't try to sell me anything). When I did a reading from DREAMS OF THE DARK at the 99 Fest, he actually went out and rounded up a bunch of folks to come in to hear it, which I thought was quite cool of him -- and he was very complimentary about the chapter. So my personal experiences with him were positive. But then I actually saw him on a couple of occasions show his insufferable side with some of the other stars, and given the things so many people have told me, I can quite understand the widespread negative sentiment. It's a shame he's alienated so many people, since he's obviously capable of being pleasant, articulate, and supportive.
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this isn't gossip but speculation... maybe he has moods. maybe he gets his nerve up for being in front of people, and takes a drink or two, which can affect some people's metabolisms by altering personality a bit. which could explain the discrepancy, being a nice guy sometimes but not necessarily on stage. maybe he thinks he's being funny, and doesn't mean it. none of this is meant as critical. if it were any of these things though, you'd think he'd have figured out it isn't working for him, and do something to change things.
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That's a damned good point, Trask, and I'm glad you mentioned it. Performers are not usually , in my experience, the coolest people to hang around. It takes a very unusual personality to do what they do, and more often than not, a certain degree of self-centeredness.
I don't think I could count the number of times that I've been disappointed to find that an artist whose work I admire is an insecure and/or arrogant jerk - either through an interview or a personal encounter, etc.
If RD's personality hasn't served him well in his professional life, and caused him to make an ass of himself in front of live audiences, shouldn't we feel a little bit sorry for him?
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which could explain the discrepancy, being a nice guy sometimes but not necessarily on stage.
Several years ago, RD publicly confessed to reading the unflattering things that fans were saying about him on the original Sci Fi boards (where many of us met), and he did seem to mellow a bit after that in his dealings with fans. Before this admission, in my personal experience he was neither pleasant on stage nor one on one with fans at his t-shirt table or elsewhere during DS events.
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That's a damned good point, Trask, and I'm glad you mentioned it. Performers are not usually , in my experience, the coolest people to hang around. It takes a very unusual personality to do what they do, and more often than not, a certain degree of self-centeredness.
I don't think I could count the number of times that I've been disappointed to find that an artist whose work I admire is an insecure and/or arrogant jerk - either through an interview or a personal encounter, etc.
If RD's personality hasn't served him well in his professional life, and caused him to make an ass of himself in front of live audiences, shouldn't we feel a little bit sorry for him?
I find it interesting and perhaps cool to be referred to as "Trask".
Felling sorry may be unnecessary and irrelevant. It's certainly not a positive thing to feel sorry for someone... I don't respect people I feel sorry for in that way... just spitballing here. I like to extract judgment from things if I can manage it. Making allowances doesn't necessarily mean feeling sorry. For me, it's more a matter of acknowledging that everyone has the capacity for being a jerk when placed under pressure ("there but for the grace of God go I" and all that), and once in a while, it's unavoidable, just because we're flesh and blood. You still ought to criticize (how else do people learn?) but coming at people with both barrels might be too much.
Recognizing that drink alters personality (and drugs) necessitates a sort of inbetween response I think. They're in limbo between being responsible and not responsible. You can control your actions to a great extent, but once the alcohol is in you, to a certain extent you can't, and life can be crap, and drive one to drink. It's a great big frustrating mixed bag, life, and erring on the side of withholding judgment is a pretty good fallback position.
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Felling sorry may be unnecessary and irrelevant. It's certainly not a positive thing to feel sorry for someone...
That depends on who you're feeling sorry for. To feel sorry for Himmler is not only unnecessary, irrelevent, and not postive, it's disgraceful. But to empathize/feel sorry for a fellow who has made a fool of himself a few too many times is, I think, a product of humility and love.
I've embarrassed myself on more than one occasion, and when I realized later what I had done,well...it was embarrassing!
I'm not saying it's ok to be a nimrod all the time, but when I consider a man who doesn't know how to behave in front of people without (or with!) a script in front of him, I feel a bit sorry for him. I think I'd have to be a bit cold to not.
It's a great big frustrating mixed bag, life, and erring on the side of withholding judgment is a pretty good fallback position.
Exactly -
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That depends on who you're feeling sorry for. To feel sorry for Himmler is not only unnecessary, irrelevent, and not postive, it's disgraceful. But to empathize/feel sorry for a fellow who has made a fool of himself a few too many times is, I think, a product of humility and love.
I've been misunderstood here... I expected it to be thought I was being too easy on Mr. Davis, not the reverse. I didn't consider being felt sorry for to be a pleasant or respectful experience. I didn't equate it with sympathy.
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I'm not implying that you're being too hard on Mr. Davis - I'm simply defending my earlier statements about "feeling sorry for" RD.
If someone feels sorry for you because you're in a bad spot, of course it's not a pleasant experience - and to feel sorry for someone's situation is not disrespectful, it's quite the opposite - I felt sorry for my friend when he lost his job because I had respect for him as a person and could identify with the struggle he was in the midst of.
Whether or not the phrase "feel sorry for" means the same thing as "feel sympathy for" is debatable, but that is what I meant. I hope this doesn't devolve into semantics -
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Retzev and Trask,
What a great turn for this thread to take. It began with folks more-or-less beating-up on RD. I knew nothing of the situation, so I just read-on.
Then I began to read the recent posts from Trask and Retzev. I appreciate the tone that both of you have used in this conversation. Your undertanding and empathetic attitude toward human nature is refreshing. You both seem to understand that everyone makes mistakes, especially when we aren't being ourselves, when we're overly self-conscience, or when we've been drinking.
Haven't we all been in a situation where we've said the wrong thing? Done the wrong thing? Reacted the wrong way? Or otherwise offended a few people? I'm glad to know that you gave Roger Davis some breathing-room.
The man may be a total jerk, but "there but for the grace of God . . .", as you said Trask. It's possible that every negative thing said about RD is absolutely true. But, as someone mentioned -- a performer's life is unusual. And sometimes a bit of self-absortion is necessary to make it through all the rejection.
Wow, this has got to be the most civil message board I have ever visited. I appreciate that.
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Thanks, Fletcher!
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It's weird but I've found that reading all this stuff over the last few years has colored my perception and enjoyment of the show. I never really paid much attention to Roger Davis one way or the other. He seemed like an okay actor - certainly not incompetent or anything. Then when I started reading all the bashing I wondered what it was about -- it seems like such a popular and accepted topic. After reading a lot of comments about his behavior at Fests, negative experiences of fans, and even things said about him by actresses on the show, I started to notice him annoying me in certain scenes. Then here and there he started grossing me out a bit. LOL [santa_rolleyes]
I've come to the conclusion that I don't really want to know much about the actors in some ways - particularly if it's negative info coming from a fellow actor. It ruins the mystique and fantasy of DS for me. Has anyone else noticed this happening to them?
I also realized the Fests have detracted from the show in a sense. There's a person who's characters never bothered me in the least. But now, having watched this person at Fests - on stage and off, seen personal appearances on TV, etc., I've developed a dislike - strong enough that if I'm not in a good mood, I can't stand watching them on the show. It's almost like nails on a chalkboard! I hate that this has happened. I try not to allow it to seep in and hope that in time I can get rid of the negative reaction. I hate anything ruining DS for me - it's depressing.
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It ruins the mystique and fantasy of DS for me. Has anyone else noticed this happening to them?
I understand that feeling. I think it can happen not only with DS, but with other things too. I know that sometimes I would rather not hear about behind the scenes problems or what not, because I like the fantasy of what I'm watching. I become a fan of the story/characters first and foremost and I get drawn into what I'm watching. I don't like it when something negatively affects my enjoyment of that -be it an actor or whatever.
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I don't think I could count the number of times that I've been disappointed to find that an artist whose work I admire is an insecure and/or arrogant jerk - either through an interview or a personal encounter
They say that most actors/actress' are shy, insecure ppl, the emphasis being on the shy part, and that that's why a lot of them go into acting to begin with, as a way to break out of their shells. I remember reading an interview of Frid's mother called My Son The Vampire and she claimed in that interview that he was a shy person...
It's entirely possible that Davis *thinks* he's being funny and truly means no harm of course. But you'd think seeing Johnny Karlen turn his back on him onstage, and hearing Dennis Patrick's derisive comments would enlighten the guy, sheesh! [santa_azn]
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Peter Bradford and Charles Delaware Tate are my two favorite character roles for Roger Davis. I met him at the fest several years ago on the elevator. I was too shocked to utter a word on the way up but he nodded at me when he saw the DS Festival Program and smiled. It was special meeting a star and only standing a few feet away from that person. I think he was one of the best looking men on DS and as other's have said, has a great voice. It's cool that he was friends with Don Briscoe and that they went to Columbia Univer(?) in New York together. I don't think we need to rip Roger another one as I've heard quite a few of the other DS actors refer to Frid's problems remembering his lines in a not too flattering way. RD did an excellent reading on the Return to Collinwood CD. Oh, I almost forgot, at another fest, I saw him leaving the hotel with a friend and he smiled and nodded at me.
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Even though I'm sure the vast majority of the people reading this topic can easily tell the difference when people are merely speculating and they're sharing facts, the two do often have a strange way of becoming confused by some people on the Internet and speculation has a way of becoming accepted by some as fact. So, simply as a clarification, it probably should be stated explicitly that:
- speculation that RD's public or private behavior may have been colored by the possibility that he had been drinking (or even ingesting anything stronger) is simply that: speculation. It shouldn't ever be confused with actual published and/or first hand accounts - whether they be pro or con
- and the possibility of having been drinking shouldn't be seen in any way as an excuse to condone any individual's bad behavior.
Speculation certainly has its place - particularly whenever we're what-ifing about some sort of DS storyline point or storyline we might have liked to have seen done on the show. But speculation, no matter how well intended, can be and often is a very dangerous thing when it comes to discussing a real person's life.
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Fletcher.... thanks. That was a great post.
Connie.... it's exactly the same with me, only possibly more so. I resist it as best I can, but what I saw in a character or show will get muted or go away completely because of those negative opinions from others. It's not because I believe what they're saying. It's subconscious pressure. My feelings and conscious opinions get split off from each other. I end up not being able to believe in what I'm seeing with my own eyes. A show will be "bad" even though I know better.
I don't understand supremely confident people, who go around proclaiming their opinions, and who just tell people they don't agree with that they just don't know what the f they're talking about. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine being that self-contained and invulnerable. I don't want to be like that. But I'd kill to have half that confidence and self-belief, enough to be my real self for the first time.
There's a mob mentality among most people, on most subjects, that people just automatically go with, without stopping to think. (I hope this won't offend people here. I think we need to start to see it, to start fighting it. Every human being is vulnerable to this.) It's part of the comformist urge that leads people to try so hard to "fit in"--- we mold beliefs to fit what the majority seems to think, subconsciously, sometimes in a small way, sometimes totally. Then we tell kids to "be themselves", confusing the hell out of them, but that's another subject for another time.
Anyway, it really seems to be possible for an idea to be repeated so often and so loudly by so many people, that it becomes "true", that is, it becomes next to impossible to see it as not being true. I think half the ideas that go around in this society are like that. Repetiti on TV equals truth. If you're immersed in fandom, that's almost as overwhelming as TV. This or that actor is crap... it's treated as obvious and self-evident, and eventually you can't stand the strain anymore, of internally fighting the idea (because you feel as if your perceptions must be crazy if you do)... and if the subject is just one actor you don't think much about anyway, you're not going to be trying too hard.
I lost my sister, the person I felt closest to in the world, the only person who seemed remotely in synch with me, partly because I got to like Elton John and Bernie Taupin, almost as much as the Beatles. This would be trivial for any other two people, I know. It only matters because of the consequences, plus how young I was then. Don't tell me it's silly... I know it is, and that's my point.
We'd shared musical tastes untril then. I got contempt from her over this, suddenly, unexpectedly, and things gradually fell apart from that point on. that was the beginning of the snowball. Ayway, I've had to struggle to validate internally my own beliefs, likes, and perceptions because of that and other pressures from an early age, to feel just about everything I think and feel and believe and experience is "wrong"-- not morally but factually.
So, yes, Connie, it happens. I hope your version is milder than mine.
Buzz---
I've decided that some insecurities I have are those performers' anxieties you hear them talking about sometimes, that make them go on stage and be comedians, only I'm not in a situation that allows me to do anything like that, so it's bottled up and festers. I hit upon that idea to feel better about things actually. We're all flawed, as Fletcher talked about above.
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Damn, Trask! Your eloquence amazes me -
Connie.... it's exactly the same with me, only possibly more so. I resist it as best I can, but what I saw in a character or show will get muted or go away completely because of those negative opinions from others. It's not because I believe what they're saying. It's subconscious pressure. My feelings and conscious opinions get split off from each other. I end up not being able to believe in what I'm seeing with my own eyes. A show will be "bad" even though I know better...
There's a mob mentality among most people, on most subjects, that people just automatically go with, without stopping to think. (I hope this won't offend people here. I think we need to start to see it, to start fighting it. Every human being is vulnerable to this.) It's part of the comformist urge that leads people to try so hard to "fit in"--- we mold beliefs to fit what the majority seems to think, subconsciously, sometimes in a small way, sometimes totally. Then we tell kids to "be themselves", confusing the hell out of them, but that's another subject for another time...
Yes. I'm so thankful that I found this forum, but it's very much a double-edged sword. I love reading the thoughts of others who love the show as much as I do, and I love communicating my own thoughts about DS to a group of people who might be interested in hearing what I have to say, but it's a challenge to keep the majority opinion on certain subjects from influencing my own perception. I'm still on my maiden DS voyage and I want to enjoy it for what it is and what it was, and nothing more.
As another example, I'm a fan of more than a few so-called cult-films, and the problems are similar. I'm always excited when an obscure favorite receives the lavish "Special Editon" treatment on DVD, and I always pick'em up, but after watching the cast interviews, and the making-of featurettes, and the blooper-reels...ad nauseum...I usually come away feeling as though the magic has been lost in the analysis, like a butterfly pinned to cork-board.
I don't understand supremely confident people, who go around proclaiming their opinion, and who just tell people they don't agree with that they just don't know what the f they're talking about. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine being that self-contained and invulnerable. I don't want to be like that. But I'd kill to have that confidence and self-belief, enough to be my real self for the first time...
I've decided that some insecurities I have are those performers' anxieties you hear them talking about sometimes, that make them go on stage and be comedians, only I'm not in a situation that allows me to do anything like that, so it's bottled up and festers. I hit upon that idea to feel better about things actually. We're all flawed, as Fletcher talked about above.
So true. I so often find myself annoyed by the overly self-assured "supremely confident" types, but when I stop to consider it, I have to ask myself if my annoyance isn't partly envy...
I can so easily relate to the typical performer's anxieties - self-conciousness, timidity etc., that I try my best to ignore any foolishness they might engage in when their "real selves" are before an audience. These folks are in the business of pretending to be someone they're not(!) - the least I can do, for my benefit and theirs, is to ignore who they are and believe, as best I can, the parts they performed.
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Earlier in this thread, someone said that Roger Davis wouldn't be attending any more DS festivals. This was the first I had heard of that. Did something happen at one of the festivals that led to his making this decision? Has he publically stated that he would not be attending in the future, and if so, why?
I haven't seen the reunion tape that was talked about where he is supposed to have criticized or mocked Frid. Someone else later made the point that RD is not the first DS actor/actress to have made comments about Frid's difficulty with memorizing lines. Were Davis' comments more belittling than what other DS actors have said on this subject, or how were RD's comments different from what others have said many times?
[ChristmaS15]
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Earlier in this thread, someone said that Roger Davis wouldn't be attending any more DS festivals. This was the first I had heard of that. Did something happen at one of the festivals that led to his making this decision? Has he publically stated that he would not be attending in the future, and if so, why?
Hi,
No, he has not publicly stated that he won't be attending any more Fests, which is the purpose of the reminder in Reply #13. Sorry!
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RD was certainly never a standout cast member for me, but he also never sent me into a foaming frenzy of irritation either. I thought he was average acting-wise, and was decent at playing a hothead. Some of his DS roles were better than others. I never attended a Fest and didn't really interact much in the fandom so I didn't realize there was such revulsion for him until internet fandom arose (because you never read about this stuff in the 'zines). Likewise, I never knew there were storylines (Leviathan, Adam) that whole pockets of fans detested. That was actually kind of surprising. I merely assumed fandom dug all of DS and its many characters. The storyline detractors in fandom certainly haven't colored my views. The personal stuff about the actors though could more easily alter my opinions. For example, I might still think an actor did a good job in the show, but knowing they are a jerk in real life could be a turnoff in viewing their performance.
RD is someone I've heard mixed things about. It's unfortunate that he has acted like an a-hole to people, but by the same token I've also heard about cool things he's done (like taking a Board member and DS fan over to see his house this past Summer). Regardless of his faults, the guy was still part of DS and always will be, so he should still be invited to participate in the Fests IMO. On a related note, I'm not sure why fans have taken issue with him plugging his business ventures at Fests. Don't many of the DS actors plug their various projects at the Fests? Like I said, I've never gone to one, so I have no idea what the time share thing was all about.
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I haven't seen the reunion tape that was talked about where he is supposed to have criticized or mocked Frid. Someone else later made the point that RD is not the first DS actor/actress to have made comments about Frid's difficulty with memorizing lines. Were Davis' comments more belittling than what other DS actors have said on this subject, or how were RD's comments different from what others have said many times?
I bought a DS reunion tape where no-one makes in fun of anyone. The tape I'm referring to I borrowed from a library. I've heard on other boards and Internet sites that others poked fun at Frid's bad memory. But in the tape I'm referring to Davis started to immitate "someone" talking lover-like to KLS/Josette and then very obviously searching for the teleprompter, looking straight past her. KLS just grinned but I was horrified and decided if this was the tone of these fests I'm sure not going. I suspect many of these people will be using the fests to sell something. KLS her books, I understand Nancy B. wanted to perform a cabaret skit she was doing. In the tape I own, Louis Edmonds did a dance routine (pretty funny actually). And, Frid did a fantastic reading of Poe's "the tell-tale heart". It was great but obviously he wanted to promote his popular stage routines. I don't mind this aspect of it as, quite realistically, the fans are probably going to be more enthusiastic about the fests than the actors who attend them over and over. If it's not for the money, I'm sure they must get bored eventually.
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the fans are probably going to be more enthusiastic about the fests than the actors who attend them over and over. If it's not for the money, I'm sure they must get bored eventually.
It's been my understanding that whenever talk of discontinuing the Fests has come up, interestingly enough, it's actually been several of the actors who have persuaded Jim Pierson to continue them. If not for the actors' enthusiasm, the Fests might have ended years ago.
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I don't blame any of the actors either for promoting their current work at the fests or trying out new things to a receptive audience. It would be depressing to think that you have accomplished nothing else satisfying in your professional life other than something you did forty years ago. The festivals do bring some element of the media spotlight which doesn't hurt in terms of exposure for those who are still acting.
As for the making fun of people - that really only started in the past ten years or so and I think it may have come about because the actors who poke fun or criticize their DS colleagues are more comfortable wtih the audience. They don't think in terms of how tacky it comes across to new fans or even those who think it's just rude to do that. They let their hair down. I can't help but wonder how much it affects Frid's desire to return to the fests. He has said that he now believes that most of the DS fandom base is just about making fun of the show and the actors screwing up. He has said that publicly too. I don't see the making fun of him constantly as being bothersome to him personally but it certainly would not entice him to want to leave the comforts of his home in Canada for a weekend spent discussing line flubs from forty years ago. It's just old and certainly not worth hearing about in person. Frid has seen enough of it when he has visited this board and other DS boards to wanna spend a weekend doing it all over again, IMO.
[santa_rolleyes]
Nancy
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Jonathan plans on putting more readings on his website in the upcoming year. It's a matter of going through the recorded material and selecting from there or deciding to do a new reading altogether. He has been encouraged by fans do to this, those who visit his website and send comments, so that's what he will be doing with the site.
One of the reasons JF put together readings at the fests in the early days is that he didn't know the answers to many questions fans asked him about plotlines and other characters.
Nancy
And, Frid did a fantastic reading of Poe's "the tell-tale heart". It was great but obviously he wanted to promote his popular stage routines. I don't mind this aspect of it as, quite realistically, the fans are probably going to be more enthusiastic about the fests than the actors who attend them over and over. If it's not for the money, I'm sure they must get bored eventually.
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Jonathan plans on putting more readings on his website in the upcoming year. It's a matter of going through the recorded material and selecting from there or deciding to do a new reading altogether. He has been encouraged by fans do to this, those who visit his website and send comments, so that's what he will be doing with the site.
I was so impressed with his reading (and with it I could see other aspects of his acting talent as he sure was good) that I did an Internet search re his stage act he did in Universities and towns. I really want to attend one but now understand he is retired. That I would have loved to have seen.
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It's been my understanding that whenever talk of discontinuing the Fests has come up, interestingly enough, it's actually been several of the actors who have persuaded Jim Pierson to continue them. If not for the actors' enthusiasm, the Fests might have ended years ago.
This is true. I remember well the "last" Fest in Brooklyn in 2003 when, during the cast reunion, the stars (KLS mostly) pulled Jim up on stage and basically read him the riot act for planning on stopping the Fests. He back-peddled and said they were planning "something" for 2004 (which turned out to be the Fest--although they NOW call them weekends and NOT Fests, don't know WHY they don't call them Fests anymore when that's *clearly* what they are [idontknow]--in Tarrytown). I have no doubt that at least 50% (but probably more than that) of the reason the stars want to continue them is to sell their wares. I have no problem w/this however, they have every right to make a living any way they can same as the rest of us, and if the fans are BUYING...! ;)
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As for the making fun of people - that really only started in the past ten years or so and I think it may have come about because the actors who poke fun or criticize their DS colleagues are more comfortable wtih the audience. They don't think in terms of how tacky it comes across to new fans or even those who think it's just rude to do that. They let their hair down. I can't help but wonder how much it affects Frid's desire to return to the fests. He has said that he now believes that most of the DS fandom base is just about making fun of the show and the actors screwing up. He has said that publicly too. I don't see the making fun of him constantly as being bothersome to him personally but it certainly would not entice him to want to leave the comforts of his home in Canada for a weekend spent discussing line flubs from forty years ago. It's just old and certainly not worth hearing about in person. Frid has seen enough of it when he has visited this board and other DS boards to wanna spend a weekend doing it all over again, IMO.
Do you really think this would happen at this point in the game? Perhaps if Mr. Frid had continuously attended Fests and gotten "comfortable" as you put it--- I've seen those pictures where he's kidding around with Mr. Karlen for example, so it could have been tending in that direction. But if he came back, just once, after so many years away, I'd almost bet the fans would be so overwhelmed by the gesture that thoughts of such dippy questions would fly out of their heads. I'm basing that on having gone to a couple of Mr. Frid's shows in the past, where people asked questions about DS of course, but it didn't get too silly, he seemed OK answering them to the best of his recollection, and the audience accepted that. Granted these were much smaller groups and there's always a few loose screws in big crowds, but do you really think that fans who could not attend his Readers' Theater shows or his stage appearances, but have longed to see him in person for SO many years would insult him in that manner? It's up to him naturally, whatever he decides to do and if he feels well enough to rise to the challenge, and we must accept that, but is this issue really a serious concern?
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Perhaps if Mr. Frid had continuously attended Fests and gotten "comfortable" as you put it--- I've seen those pictures where he's kidding around with Mr. Karlen for example, so it could have been tending in that direction. But if he came back, just once, after so many years away, I'd almost bet the fans would be so overwhelmed by the gesture that thoughts of such dippy questions would fly out of their heads.
Probably, but from reading his website and from reading items about him I am under the impression that not having a strong film or TV follow-up career to DS hurt him terribly and to be typecast (as I'm sure he was) must have been awful for such a serious career actor. Looks like he ralied forth and eventually got himself a (hopefully) lucrative and successful stage act and theater work that sounded wonderful. It's possible that in addition to being embarassed and to constantly making excuses for his "memory lapses" to his DS fans, the fests might have also brought up hurtful feelings of post-DS professionaly failure. Maybe he just wanted to distance himself from the whole thing to recover emotionally. Certainly, there is a slight testy quality re the Dark Shadows discussion and comments on his website. He obviously knows it brought him fame of sorts and has lots of text on Dark Shadows but one is under the impression that he'd like to lead the audience from DS to other areas, like his Shakespeare readings.
I totally respect his decision not to attend fests. He isn't obligated to attend and honestly, fans do not own this poor guy. He worked his butt off for years on Dark Shadows, he earned his salary, attended promotionally tours when needed. He did his time in a respectable manner.
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Do you really think this would happen at this point in the game? Perhaps if Mr. Frid had continuously attended Fests and gotten "comfortable" as you put it---
Frid attended fests, fan conventions (that were not official fests) and other fan events from the early 1980s to 1993. In some instances he attended 3 and 4 a year and did the Q&As and the rest of it as well as a reading of his own chosing. He was more than comfortable with it. In fact, he was on the planning committee of some fan cons back in New York. He wanted fans to have a good time.
I've seen those pictures where he's kidding around with Mr. Karlen for example, so it could have been tending in that direction.
Actually, Karlen would be the last person to tease Frid about lines, etc. He has repeatedly said in interviews on camera and at the fests that Frid had the most on him in DS, on most days, had more lines and more to do overall. He and Frid were very good friends during the run of DS (helped each other move from their respective apartments, had dinner together) and when they got together at the fest they liked to play. Frid does have quite the sense of humor so he and Karlen can be quite the pair at the fests.
But if he came back, just once, after so many years away, I'd almost bet the fans would be so overwhelmed by the gesture that thoughts of such dippy questions would fly out of their heads.
The DS questions don't bother Frid - he simply doesn't remember enough about the plots or many of the lesser known characters that well to discuss them or given an opinion. He has not viewed the show that much or consistently enough since to have any better knowledge. That fact has nothing to do with not liking to watch DS as much as Frid doesn't watch much TV let alone videotapes of a serial. He doesn't watch many videos of things he does love to see all that much either. That's not a way he chooses to spend much of his time.
I'm basing that on having gone to a couple of Mr. Frid's shows in the past, where people asked questions about DS of course, but it didn't get too silly, he seemed OK answering them to the best of his recollection, and the audience accepted that.
You bring up a good point. Somehow it has gotten into some heads that Frid doesn't like discussing DS or distances himself from it. Yet, on his website for the entire time it has been up (1998) DS has been mentioned and illustrated. Frid's thinking is why put up a website all about something everyone who visits it already knows about hence his putting up things DS fans probably are not familiar with about him. When Frid did a Christmas show at Lockwood Mathews (where scenes from HODS was filmed) he had a special tape made showing scenes from that movie that took place outside and inside Lockwood Mathews so that fans attending this reading could see them during intermission. They were sitting in the rotunda area listening to Frid and that's where Barny-boo got the spear in the film. He thought the whole thing was a cool coincidence.
Granted these were much smaller groups and there's always a few loose screws in big crowds, but do you really think that fans who could not attend his Readers' Theater shows or his stage appearances, but have longed to see him in person for SO many years would insult him in that manner?
Well, it's happened - repeatedly but you need to understand that making fun of lines or whatever to Frid doesn't "insult" him as much as clue him in on what those fans wish to focus on themselves. Frid wrote a foreward to the INTRODUCTION OF BARNABAS book the festival put out some years ago and talked about seeing fans sitting in rooms laughing at scenes. He said he was too "hard hearted" to let that bother him. He attended fests knowing that went on and knowing that people loved to talk about the bloopers. He participated in those discussions.
It's up to him naturally, whatever he decides to do and if he feels well enough to rise to the challenge, and we must accept that, but is this issue really a serious concern?
Fans have stopped coming to fests for periods of time because they were burned out or tired of the same old thing over and over again. At any Q&A event at the fests, at the DS reunion and other functions you hear more about what Frid did wrong than right. Obviously, he didn't do anything so wrong since the show continues today with the marketers using his face on everything. It's what most people would want to see. Frid can log on his site or the many other DS sites and see most of the discussion about him having to do with silly stuff mostly teleprompters and forgetting lines. That doesn't exactly make one think his presence at a fest would be anything more than about this discussion. It's old. I think it's more of an "oh okay that's what they are into . . . still " than some insult. Frid thinks DS was a serious show and not one to be made fun of. The blooper culture is more of what fans are about now. There's nothing wrong with that if that is what entertains the fans who watch DS. The fans make the show whatever it is. But don't expect people who feel very differently to buy into that or want to spend time in that environment. It's not about insult but more about not wanting to participate in something that is boring.
Of course too, you have the problem of fans who have attended Frid's one man shows, copied down his license plate and then through motor vehicles gotten his home address (which is unlisted for a reason) and started sending video tapes of the festivals and other things. That kind of behavior is upsetting and annoying. For a man who is very private, he has to wonder too if this kind of behavior won't become worse if he makes another public appearance.
Geez, I certainly prattled on about this longer than I intended to - sorry! LOL!!
Nancy
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Probably, but from reading his website and from reading items about him I am under the impression that not having a strong film or TV follow-up career to DS hurt him terribly and to be typecast (as I'm sure he was) must have been awful for such a serious career actor.
Not really because JF rarely ever pursued TV or film work even before DS. He loved the stage. As Frid has said many times including at the more recent charity shows, he was an actor who did what he wanted when he wanted and would have had more of a career for himself but he was too "lazy." If he couldn't do what he wanted, he would rather than not work and that's precisely what happened after DS ended. He wanted to do other things and could have if he had played the game but he didn't want to. He was offered many film and TV roles of substance in the early 1980s through today and he turns them all down. During the time of his one man show he turned down the work because he only wanted to do his one man show. Later he turned it down because he was retired.
Looks like he ralied forth and eventually got himself a (hopefully) lucrative and successful stage act and theater work that sounded wonderful. It's possible that in addition to being embarassed and to constantly making excuses for his "memory lapses" to his DS fans, the fests might have also brought up hurtful feelings of post-DS professionaly failure. Maybe he just wanted to distance himself from the whole thing to recover emotionally.
In some interviews JF gave after DS was over, he said he wanted to get his life back and his privacy. It really got old fast to have fans calling his friends and family in Canada about him. The fan mags were not above making up interviews with his family such as the two page spread about the supposed interview with Mrs. Frid (JF's mother) that never happened. He talked about that in 1986 at the Dallas Festival Q&A. His mother was sitting in the beauty parlor getting her hair done and someone plopped into her lap this magazine article featuring her called "MY Son the vampire." Frid said she was pretty horrified especially as she never even gave the interview [a_xmas].
Certainly, there is a slight testy quality re the Dark Shadows discussion and comments on his website. He obviously knows it brought him fame of sorts and has lots of text on Dark Shadows but one is under the impression that he'd like to lead the audience from DS to other areas, like his Shakespeare readings.
I agree Frid gets testy and many times it's because people who supposedly adore him and Barnabas can't spell either name right [8_2_77]. Also, words can sounder harsher in print than in person. JF is a candid person and unlike some of the other actors who smile in your face and then make fun of you behind your back, if he has a problem with something said to him, he responds to it honestly. It's not always great, [snowball]
It helps to remember too in understanding the Fridster that this is a man who, if he were a father, would not allow his kids to watch TV. He thinks people spend way too much watching it and not pursuing other things.
Nancy
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The blooper culture is more of what fans are about now.
Really? That's kind of sad. While there are fans who incorrectly think of DS as an experiment in camp or who get off on the bloopers, is this really what the majority of fans are into? From reading online discussions here, I never found the focus to be on the bloopers in particular (although that stuff certainly does come up in discussions). I also find that most fans have great respect for Jonathan Frid's acting skills. Unfortunately, the few who do make the rude remarks, or who focus on mistakes, are the loudest it seems. Alas, that seems to be the way with most things in life.
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Nancy--- nicely done "prattling". From everything you've said JF sounds completely fair and reasonable. I once looked over that guestbook of his, where he very briefly and reasonably pointed out that fans could at least take the slight time and trouble to make sure they spelled his name and his character's name correctly. The fan he was referring to got outraged, and basically called him a snob and know-it-all. You're walking into his Internet house, or place of business, get the man's name right. I'm completely behind Mr. Frid on this one. That includes the issue of people spending too much time watching TV.
PD and Nancy-- I haven't encountered them anyplace, but I just know those "fans" who think DS was "camp" (there are obnoxious smartasses* who assume everything good and old was "camp" and meant for laughs... meant for them to make fun of...) are really out there, somewhere. Why? Because they're everywhere. Throughout our society there are superior-minded numbskulls who can't or won't think outside the cultural parameters they're used to, who mock things because they're out of fashion and so seem "strange" to them. I thought they made fun from a distance, and didn't venture into DS fandom. I only respect a mocking impulse if it's not just a mindless impulse, not a knee-jerk sort of thing, and has had some thought (and a desire for fairness) put into it. Instead they're usually following an automatic urge to build oneself up by tearing something or someone else down.
Then they throw us a bone, by claiming DS, or whatever the object of the mocking is, is meant to be laughed at, they "get" it, and they really "like" DS. That don't cut no ice with me. If I find those guys here, I'm outing them as Trojan Horse fans, or something.
* I don't consider myself the obnoxious kind, though I may be wrong of course.
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I have no doubt that at least 50% (but probably more than that) of the reason the stars want to continue them is to sell their wares. I have no problem w/this however, they have every right to make a living any way they can same as the rest of us, and if the fans are BUYING...!
I totally agree with you.
Nancy
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While there are fans who incorrectly think of DS as an experiment in camp or who get off on the bloopers, is this really what the majority of fans are into?
I don't honestly think it's what the majority of DS fans are into - but there are definitely people who make the bloopers their main focus. I've followed several different DS online boards and I've subscribed to a few different fanzines and it's been impossible not to notice that there are certain people who only post/write in whenever a blooper comes up. In fact, they seem to find bloopers that I swear the majority of us would barely take notice of - and that would certainly seem to be because they spend little to none of their DS viewing time paying attention to the storylines or the actors' performances and instead focus almost entirely if not exclusively on everything that's going on in the background and in the periphery of scenes. ::) Personally, I've never understood the utter fascination the bloopers hold for some people, particularly when it's seemingly to the exclusion of any other aspects of DS - but I suppose it takes all kinds...
All that being said, though, I place at least part of the blame for the fascination with bloopers squarely on the media because all too often they've played up the bloopers and the supposed "camp" nature of DS. However, it's been nice to see that of late there seems to be a shift in at least certain parts of the media away from that to a focus that's more on what I think most of us feel really makes DS so special, namely the storylines and the actors' performances. There's no denying the fact that the aspects of DS that the media focuses on can certainly affect some people's perceptions of the show. So, if the media continues to focus more on the DS storylines/performances, that can only help to change the general perceptions of the show.
Unfortunately, the few who do make the rude remarks, or who focus on mistakes, are the loudest it seems. Alas, that seems to be the way with most things in life.
So true. I mean, just look at the whole call-in talk show culture - how many people actually call in to praise something/someone? Not very many. The vast majority of the people who take part in those shows seemingly do so merely to make fun of something/someone or to rip it/them apart. Yet another cultural phenomenon that I don't quite get...
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You know, it wasn't until I my "later" years that I even comprehended the fact of bloopers in DS. As a kid, when unexpected things happened in the show, my mind's eye more or less blocked them out. I know I never felt a moment's amusement when gravestones wobbled or lines drifted into the incomprehensible. If you've ever been in an old graveyard and bumped a gravestone, guess what. It wobbles. Of course, it rarely sets a whole row of graves, as well as the nearby trees moving. <G> And in real speech, people's points sometimes wander into weird territory. All those aspects of the show were just things to be taken in stride. In my youth, my focus was solely on the story and the people, and that's what's stuck with me over the years. Certainly, it's almost impossible -not- to find humor in the gaffes, but making those the main focus is, to me, an exercise in foolishness -- a mindset uncomfortably close to deriving of pleasure from others' misfortunes. I can do without it.
It gives me the Willies.
--Mark
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It gives me the Willies.
[laughing4]
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i can only speak for myself but i've never found that d.s. fans' primary focus was the "bloopers" or other supposed "camp" values the show possesses.
this is a 1200+ episode series.i can't imagine anyone sitting through this volume of material to catch the occasional flub.my experience with it and from what i read here is that most fans are genuinely involved in the story and form emotional attatchments to the characters.we might get the occasional chuckle out of a wayward stagehand or missed cue but i doubt most viewers spend what amounts to hundreds of hours of thier lives for this purpose.
mpi has chosen to market "bloopers" videos because it's another way to make money off the show the same way they market "scariest moments"(which totally aren't).
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You know, there is actually a girl on the boards who is a real big fan of Craig Slocum, so guess there are tastes for everyone. I thought a "panel" of Roger's at a fests where he was trying to get the fans to suggest tshirt colors was very tedious, yet I have heard others over the years who thought the bit was very funny...hmmm...
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It's weird but I've found that reading all this stuff over the last few years has colored my perception and enjoyment of the show. I never really paid much attention to Roger Davis one way or the other. He seemed like an okay actor - certainly not incompetent or anything. Then when I started reading all the bashing I wondered what it was about -- it seems like such a popular and accepted topic. After reading a lot of comments about his behavior at Fests, negative experiences of fans, and even things said about him by actresses on the show, I started to notice him annoying me in certain scenes. Then here and there he started grossing me out a bit. LOL [santa_rolleyes]
I've come to the conclusion that I don't really want to know much about the actors in some ways - particularly if it's negative info coming from a fellow actor. It ruins the mystique and fantasy of DS for me. Has anyone else noticed this happening to them?
I also realized the Fests have detracted from the show in a sense. There's a person who's characters never bothered me in the least. But now, having watched this person at Fests - on stage and off, seen personal appearances on TV, etc., I've developed a dislike - strong enough that if I'm not in a good mood, I can't stand watching them on the show. It's almost like nails on a chalkboard! I hate that this has happened. I try not to allow it to seep in and hope that in time I can get rid of the negative reaction. I hate anything ruining DS for me - it's depressing.
I really am sorry about this, Connie, but I can see how it can happen....I always think that Jonathan and Lara got along great both off and onscreen, which I think is really true, but then I witnessed him say he might not have read her first book as it was not his usual stuff, but then I think, since she sent him a personal copy, and he has always been very complimentarly of his costars, that he probably at least gave it a look and maybe told her good job if her had her phone number , etc, which he might have...
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I don't honestly think it's what the majority of DS fans are into - but there are definitely people who make the bloopers their main focus. I've followed several different DS online boards and I've subscribed to a few different fanzines and it's been impossible not to notice that there are certain people who only post/write in whenever a blooper comes up. In fact, they seem to find bloopers that I swear the majority of us would barely take notice of - and that would certainly seem to be because they spend little to none of their DS viewing time paying attention to the storylines or the actors' performances and instead focus almost entirely if not exclusively on everything that's going on in the background and in the periphery of scenes. ::) Personally, I've never understood the utter fascination the bloopers hold for some people, particularly when it's seemingly to the exclusion of any other aspects of DS - but I suppose it takes all kinds...
I like to laugh at bloopers too but not to the exclusion of everything else and it would not ever be a mission of mine to find one if it were not obvious. I enjoy watching stuff that is terrible at times too my favorite being Reptilicus. It's even out on DVD now! [8_2_59] About once a year or so I pop that baby in.
All that being said, though, I place at least part of the blame for the fascination with bloopers squarely on the media because all too often they've played up the bloopers and the supposed "camp" nature of DS.
Excellent point, MB. You are indeed the grand high exalted mysterious benefactor with good reason. [santa_kiss]
Just as someone mentioned that some of the things they have seen at the fests color their perceptions about the show and maybe even some of the actors, it stands to reason that if some of the performers read this board (and I know some who do) might have their perceptions colored a bit as well. Good rule of the internet is to not ever write about anyone without assuming that person will read it.
Interesting too is the common perception that relationships of the actors on screen reflect their off-screen affections as well. It has been remarked upon on many occasions at Fests that the DS cast got along very well. That doesn't necessarily mean anything more than the fact they were professional people. We all have to go to work with people we like less than we like others and we make it work because that's where we are spending most of our day. Who wants to go to work in an openly hostile environment? For those fans who really need to think certain actors are really off screen friends as well, it is best to not delve too deeply and risk finding out that's not necessarily true. DS is entertainment afterall and that's why everyone started watching it to start with (I know, I'm just so smart that I was able to figure that out [santa_cheesy]).
Nancy
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Roger on the show was very good looking [santa_kiss] but some of his roles he played
annoying people [santa_shocked] i do love him as dirk the vampire he really is very funny [santa_cheesy]
i haven't been to a fest so i don't know what RD is like but have to add if he
was a friend of Donnie's can't be all bad [santa_smiley] but to those of us that watched him overact
a tad and pull at his hair srcreaming his lines forgive us our sometime negative reviews [santa_evil]
jennifer
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Just to throw in my own 2 cents, and that's what forums are for...
Despite some questionable run-ins with the man at Fests in the past, I absolutely adore Roger Davis, in a way I can't quite describe. He comes on screen and I'm hit with an "Oh, Jeez!" reaction, but with a smile on my face. He's just so over-the-top that I can't help but be exasperated by his acting, but loving every minute of it.
I actually have a picture of him haning on my wall, a polaroid of himself decked out in Tate's black suit and wearing a fedora, hanging outside the studio doors.
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The fan mags were not above making up interviews with his family such as the two page spread about the supposed interview with Mrs. Frid (JF's mother) that never happened. He talked about that in 1986 at the Dallas Festival Q&A. His mother was sitting in the beauty parlor getting her hair done and someone plopped into her lap this magazine article featuring her called "MY Son the vampire." Frid said she was pretty horrified especially as she never even gave the interview.
I *knew* that article was BS! I think the thing that was most obvious about it being bogus was when the "interviewer" asked Jonathan, "Hey, Jon, can I call your mom?" and he *supposedly* said, "Oh sure!" Puh...leeze........LOL! Like he'd ever say they could bother her w/that nonsense! And then GIVE them her number! Add to that the fact that his mom was not at all shocked to receive this supposed call. The teen rags were, and stll are, just that--RAGS! ;)
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It helps to remember too in understanding the Fridster that this is a man who, if he were a father, would not allow his kids to watch TV. He thinks people spend way too much watching it and not pursuing other things.
I have to agree w/this. He would comment in quite a few interviews, both print and television/radio, both at the time of DS and later, that "America's kids got their exercise by running home to watch Dark Shadows" and in a joking way as if to suggest that he thought kids should be out playing sports instead of parked in front of the tube on a warm sunny day. ;)
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mpi has chosen to market "bloopers" videos because it's another way to make money off the show the same way they market "scariest moments"(which totally aren't).
The only *scary* thing about "Scariest Moments" is the fact that they are not! LOL! Totally agree w/you there. ;)
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You know, there is actually a girl on the boards who is a real big fan of Craig Slocum, so guess there are tastes for everyone.
OMG! That was *brutal*! LOLLOL! [laughing4] [stfl]
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I *knew* that article was BS! I think the thing that was most obvious about it being bogus was when the "interviewer" asked Jonathan, "Hey, Jon, can I call your mom?" and he *supposedly* said, "Oh sure!" Puh...leeze........LOL! Like he'd ever say they could bother her w/that nonsense! And then GIVE them her number! Add to that the fact that his mom was not at all shocked to receive this supposed call. The teen rags were, and stll are, just that--RAGS!
;D LOL, like the Frids just loved having people call the construction company and Mrs. Frid for "insider" information and whether or not JF's crib was really a coffin. >:D
Nancy
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The teen rags were, and stll are, just that--RAGS!
Some of the teen magazines were (and probably still are ::)) guilty of making up stories, but the article with Frid's mom was published in one of the "adult" magazine (something like TV Radio Mirror). And truthfully, some of those were a hell of a lot worse about making up stories - they were basically the tabloids of their day. (Whenever I go through my DS collection, it's absolutely hysterical to see some of the titles of the articles on the backs of some DS articles. Titles like Cher Warns Barbra Streisand - Stay Away From My Man! Like Streisand would have had any interest whatsoever in Sonny Bono? [lghy]) For the most part, though, it was pretty easy to figure out which magazines were making up articles, as opposed to the ones that were truthful, because not only were most of their titles outrageous, but the articles themselves were totally out there. But I always bought them anyway - especially if they contained pictures that I didn't already have. [wink2]
And speaking of pictures, a funny anecdote about "My Son The Vampire" is that when one of my aunts saw the pictures of a bare chested Frid reading in bed and in the (gasp!) shower, in utter astonishment she showed them to my mom and marvelled that Frid would have allowed himself to be photographed "that way" and that children were allowed to see "such things." ::) ;D If she were still alive today, I can't even begin to imagine what my aunt would think about the things that today's kids are routinely exposed to...
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And speaking of pictures, a funny anecdote about "My Son The Vampire" is that when one of my aunts saw the pictures of a bare chested Frid reading in bed and in the (gasp!) shower, in utter astonishment she showed them to my mom and marvelled that Frid would have allowed himself to be photographed "that way" and that children were allowed to see "such things." ::) ;D If she were still alive today, I can't even begin to imagine what my aunt would think about the things that today's kids are routinely exposed to...
MB, I guess your aunt wouldn't approve of this photo either. :-X
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Actually, that one would have probably been fine with my aunt because it appears to be Frid just out in his yard. He's not in bed (which apparently to my aunt's mind was instantly synonymous with some sort of sexual implication - even though he was obviously only reading) and he's not in a shower (apparently implying that he's (gasp!) completely naked :o). ;D
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Wow, I never realized how despised Roger Davis was and his characters as well... ::)
I hope I don't get staked in the heart for saying this, but I actually never had a problem with Roger. I liked Vicki with Peter/Jeff more than any other of the guys she was paired with. (Though I did like her with Mitch Ryan's Burke, but definitely didn't like her with Burke number 2, Anthony George. His Burke was kind of pushy and demanding. Oddly enough though I did like her with Jeremiah, played also by George. Maybe because Jeremiah wasn't as controlling as Burke #2 could be at times).
Well anyway, not saying Roger was the best actor on the show, but he wasn't the worse. (That honor would go to whoever played Randall Drew in the 1840 storyline).
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I didn't mind him as Peter Bradford. He wasn't a strong character, but he did an okay job. I didn't like him at all as Jeff Clark, he was just such a jerk. Poor Vicki, she must have really had some sort of masochistic streak in her. The only other possibility was that she was just really dumb. I really hated him as Ned Stuart - he took the jerk thing to new and unparalled hights. I actually liked him quite a bit as Dirk Wilkins. We just got to this new time of 1897, the characters are unfamiliar and we feel a bit uneasy, and there's Dirk, cold and rude and just generally the type of person who puts you on edge, sort of a microcosm of the whole mood of the time period. He just fit really well into the whole atmosphere of the story at that point.