Author Topic: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?  (Read 2109 times)

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IluvBarnabas

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Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« on: October 21, 2006, 05:41:10 PM »
I have noticed Hallie isn't a particularly popular character on here, but I really didn't think she was all that bad. I admit I like Amy better as David's companion, but I always had a soft spot for Hallie. I also liked Carrie Stokes....so Kathy Cody must have done something right. [hall2_wink]

Offline ProfStokes

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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2006, 08:59:01 PM »
I actually prefer Hallie to Amy.  I always thought Amy was too shrill and whiny and always let David get the better of her (e.g. letting him twist her arm and boss her around during the Quentin storyline).  In retrospect, I see that Amy/Nora had better plots and scripts to work with than Hallie/Carrie, but when Hallie first came along, I was just relieved to see a more mature female companion for David.  I don't mind Kathy Cody's characters as much as some of the other people on the forum.  The characters she played were a bit on the shallow side, but I do think Carrie was a stronger character in parallel time than in regular 1840.

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Offline CastleBee

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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2006, 09:02:31 PM »
I never really cared for her myself. It may have been partly due to the way she and David were obviously teenagers when they acted together and yet, the characters where supposed to be (or should have been) quite a bit younger.  It made them both seem not only out of place in that playroom but also irritatingly slow witted. She also tended to over act IMO.
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Offline Brandon Collins

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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2006, 09:26:42 PM »
I don't mind her characters. They never really bugged me that much.

But....

I do agree that Amy was kind of whiny, although I still liked her. And I also hate the fact that when the Gerard/Daphne haunting junk came about that David and Hallie were always trying to get to that flipping playroom! David rocking back and forth on that horse as himself and as Tad in the past was really annoying. You would think they would've recast for someone younger and given David Henesy a different part. [female_skull]
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IluvBarnabas

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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2006, 03:21:38 AM »
Well I know from experience all children can be whiny from time to time. David was a bit older than Amy (a couple of years I'd say) so it was easy for him to bully her push her around. I think Hallie was closer to David's age and thus not so easy for him to bully and push around.

Plus both Amy and Hallie got tough breaks. [spoiler]Amy lost both her parents and her older brother Tom and her older brother Chris didn't seem to want her (though we all know that really wasn't the case). Hallie lost both her parents in an accident. In Amy's case I suppose Collinwood was the only place she could go (other than Windcliff). Considering the unstable environment that though the house was in, I don't think it was wise of Professor Stokes to send Hallie there. Hallie needed stability.....Collinwood was really not the place for that, not for her nor Amy.[/spoiler]

Offline D_Friedlander

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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2006, 11:34:21 PM »
I didn't think any of Kathy Cody's roles were so bad either.  At the time I was around the same age and knew girls a lot like Hallie and Carrie, confronted with many new options for their futures while dealing with age-old adolescent concerns.  At least Hallie seemed to have some normal aspirations for young teen girls in 1970--- at one point [spoiler]she expressed a desire to live on her own and  a job when she grew up,[/spoiler]while skittishly interacting with a young teenaged boy (well, this last I surely COULD identify with.)

Unfortunately, as almost everyone has observed, the way the character was written gave way to incompetent whining and weeping like a much younger girl--- channeling Denise Nickerson's characters?--- not to mention they dressed the pretty, budding young actress like a 10-year-old in the 1970 segments, including KNEESOCKS.  (Actually her 1840 costumes were much more accurate for a girl that age.)  Contrast this with KC's guest shot on "Gunsmoke" several years later, as a more complex sort of victim.

However, one COULD choose to see the Hallie character as the product of a sheltered upbringing, typical of an only child of perhaps older parents,  which may have included private or parochial school--- as I did, having, myself, been made to suffer through kneesocks and ugly unforms as a student at Saint (insert martyr name here)--- coupled with the loss of those parents.  Thus the dress and behavior MIGHT be explained by the girl's lack of worldly sophistication despite her aspirations, magnified by her immurement in an environment NOT designed to help her mature (in short, her apparent fate to become a typical DS ingenue.)

Another problem with KC's characters, I suspect, had to do with the skittishness of the writers, perhaps in regards to censorship issues--- has anyone ever ASKED them?  The original "Turn of the Screw" story upon which both the 1897 and 1840 stories were initially based, implied to many (however intended by Henry James) that the very young children in the novella were alleged victims of some form of sexual abuse by the servants.  One could get away with the implication (as long as it was not explicit) in films back then, but on TV in those days--- no way, and certainly not on a daytime show largely watched by minors.

So in 1897, the TOTS plotline, involving very young kids, shifted focus from those kids (except for "acceptable" plotlines like [spoiler]immolation by a parent, black magic, murder by a ghost, and posession!!)[/spoiler] , and by the 1840 plotline, dealing with attractive adolescents, the problem was magnified.  One wonders whether it was a relief when David Henesy, [spoiler]due to family reasons, soon vanished from the show, and instead of expanding on young Carrie's relationship with him, or her seeming interest in older men (including Gerard), they could bring in a slightly older but "normal" boy to be her serious love interest,[/spoiler]thus throwing off the necessity of explaining exactly WHAT hideous activity was supposed to have happened to [spoiler]knock off both kids and most of the adults[/spoiler] in 1840 and 1970.

I think this was a burgeoning dilemma on most soap operas in the late 1960s and early 1970s, as they strove to accommodate modern issues and increasingly complex adolescent problems in their storylines, while performing a balancing act with censorship and sponsors.  In the early 1970s, for example, on "The Doctors" there was a whole storyline about one Doctor's young teenaged daughter who had run away from home and soon found herself the target of a predatory older man.  They cast a very slight and girlish-looking actress, who was actually in her early 20's at the time.  The actress was Julia Duffy, who later went on to marry DS's "Trask", Jerry Lacy.  Luckily, the character was rescued with her virtue intact, but in the build-up, had to play some fairly mature scenes which used to be considered very unsuitable for younger actors.
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Offline ProfStokes

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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2006, 12:16:31 AM »
The original "Turn of the Screw" story upon which both the 1897 and 1840 stories were initially based, implied to many (however intended by Henry James) that the very young children in the novella were alleged victims of some form of sexual abuse by the servants.  One could get away with the implication (as long as it was not explicit) in films back then, but on TV in those days--- no way, and certainly not on a daytime show largely watched by minors.

I'm not sure about this.  I certainly got the impression from the 1897 story [spoiler]that Gregory Trask had molested Rachel and other students in his care. [/spoiler]  Even as a teenager on the cusp of the 21st Century, I found that a shocking implication when I watched it.  I'm not sure if that was what the writers meant for us to think, but if they got away with it once before, I don't see why it should have been hard for them to pull off a similar idea in the present day.

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Offline Brandon Collins

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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2006, 01:10:41 AM »
The original "Turn of the Screw" story upon which both the 1897 and 1840 stories were initially based, implied to many (however intended by Henry James) that the very young children in the novella were alleged victims of some form of sexual abuse by the servants.  One could get away with the implication (as long as it was not explicit) in films back then, but on TV in those days--- no way, and certainly not on a daytime show largely watched by minors.

I'm not sure about this.  I certainly got the impression from the 1897 story [spoiler]that Gregory Trask had molested Rachel and other students in his care. [/spoiler]  Even as a teenager on the cusp of the 21st Century, I found that a shocking implication when I watched it.  I'm not sure if that was what the writers meant for us to think, but if they got away with it once before, I don't see why it should have been hard for them to pull off a similar idea in the present day.

Hell Yea he molested those kids! Why else would he put Jamison in the closet? Not to mention the fact of depriving them of their meals if they were bad--he was teaching them eating problems! [female_skull]
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IluvBarnabas

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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2006, 03:54:16 AM »
A bit off topic but since someone brought up the subject of the horrors of Worthington HallTrask enjoyed torturing and tormenting the children at his school, that's what I hate most about him. I wonder if Jamison and Nora [spoiler]after being rescued from the fire at Worthington Hall[/spoiler] tried to tell Edward and Judith what went on there immediately after. Unfortunately though I can see Edward and Judith not believing them. Trask no doubt would have denied it and at that point both Edward and Judith could not see the nasty man he really was and would have believed him over the children. [hall2_embarrassed]

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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2006, 04:17:02 PM »
I also liked Carrie Stokes....so Kathy Cody must have done something right.

Hate Hallie, but like Carrie, at least the 1841 PT one, can't remember the 1840 RT one too well.
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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2006, 07:37:41 PM »
Hated both Hallie and Carrie.  They came off to me like 'wooden'.   [hall_undecided]
It just seems that they didn't have that ole Collinsport High cheer.  (Rah! Rah!)
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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2006, 12:26:07 AM »
nice words on hallie from donna friedlander.

i wouldn't say that i disliked hallie but by the time i got to the "summer of 1970" episodes i was sort of burned
out on the whole thing so i couldn't really muster up alot of enthusiasm for the character or the storyline.

but as has been said many times both hallie and david were much too old for the storyline.teenagers really.

something about the way the show was structured required that a "child"(or "children")be at collinwood at all times.so david henesy's characters(as well as his playmates)were perpetually kept in a childlike state.this also rationalized the presence of a pretty ingenue governess in all time periods who otherwise would have had no reason for being there.

kathy cody was already developing a "figure" and if the show had lasted a year longer she would have been working a full-fledged "rack" and david fighting five o'clock shadow.

probably the most accurate depiction of a "teenager" on the show is carolyn in 1966 and even then she looked older than she sometimes acted.

i think when my friends and i were fourteen we were sneaking beer and cigarettes...not playing with dollhouses and rocking horses. [hall2_rolleyes]
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Offline Sandor

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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2006, 05:22:17 AM »
i think when my friends and i were fourteen we were sneaking beer and cigarettes...not playing with dollhouses and rocking horses. [hall2_rolleyes]

My 14 year old friends and I were out streaking! It was 1976, and streaking was the rage (in California, not Collinsport). However, we'd all put our clothes back on and come inside to watch "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman" and the first syndicated run of "Dark Shadows" (the early Barnabas episodes - we loved it!).

But as for Hallie, never cared for the character or the actress. David's pal, Amy, had those spooky big brown eyes and seemed better cast for a show like DS than the wispy blonde Hallie.

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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2006, 02:50:16 PM »
something about the way the show was structured required that a "child"(or "children")be at collinwood at all times.so david henesy's characters(as well as his playmates)were perpetually kept in a childlike state.this also rationalized the presence of a pretty ingenue governess in all time periods who otherwise would have had no reason for being there.
True. From a purely ratings point of view - I think having young kids around was partially just a good way to give their target audience someone to identify with...that and the ever present governess gave the show that Jane Eyre atmosphere - which is always a nice romanitc touch IMO.  I think this particular set of kids kind of backfired on me because I actually was about their age at the time which made me more critical of the rocking horse and dollhouse scenario  [hall2_rolleyes] .  That and I started to drift away from DS about the time of the Leviathans (my least favorite storyline) anyway.  I no doubt would have returned at some point had they not cancelled when they did.  As it turned out I didn't have a chance to revive my interest in the show until decades later during the SciFi run.  Even though I now have the DVD set, I'd still love to see the show return to the tube.
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Offline CyrusL

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Re: Does anyone besides me like Hallie?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2006, 08:45:29 PM »
Likewise, I am on record as saying the importance of David Collins cannot be underestimated in helping Dark Shadows achieve the youth audience which was not part of soaps.
       Generally, I like Amy better, for reasons similar to those stated, such as "those spooky big brown eyes", but I do think we give Kathy a bit of a hard judgement. Again, during the last two years the kind of direction Henry Kaplan gave was more shall we say, high pitched. Since Kathy came in during this period, and being a young actress, she was probably often try to give Kaplan the kind of performances he was asking for. I think this contributes to why Hallie seems more often high strung than Amy.
        However, there's no question the 1970-1840 was awkward. There's no question David and Kathy were too old for that Playroom. In fact, while David and Amy were together, they were at an age where I don't think it was too uncomfortable for two unrelated children of the opposite sex to share say low supervised quarters, but with David and Hallie, well, they were definitely on the cusp of puberty. That could have taken things in a whole other direction. I think the whole awkwardness of their pairing is a lot of what gives people some bad impressions of Kathy. Many of her scenes with other actors and on other story points are muss less strained.
       What makes the story here work for me, and it does, is more to the fact that Gerard/Storm does a great job of a dark spirit, the musical themes, the mysterious staircase through time etc.
       For what its worth, I always thought Kathy did a pretty good job in the Disney films, and other TV guest shots as well. [hall_smiley]

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