Discuss - Ep #0666

[Watching Project]

Robservations #666

(How appropriate is it that this ep originally ran on the 13th?  )

[Midnite]

Cool, MB!

Here are some problems with the finale of this 1796 sojourn:

Not too many eps before this, Barnabas revealed to Julia that his father was probably unable to carry out with the plan of shooting him through the heart, so he must have instructed Ben to chain him in his coffin instead.  Yet, we keep getting excuses for Joshua's obvious absence, and Barnabas gets chained minus the poignant final scene with his father.

Natalie already knew about the curse placed on Barnabas by Angelique; Joshua told her in #449.  At that time, [spoiler]she provided valuable assistance in the effort to lift the curse,[/spoiler] but this time around she orchestrates his attempted destruction.  Ugh.

Nathan fired at Ben and missed from a couple of feet away?!

In this changed timeline, Nathan was spared from death by Barnabas, only to be murdered by a well-meaning Ben.

Ben accidentally kills Natalie, a much loved character, so now he's a double murderer and is forced to cover up this terrible secret!

[Lydia]

Natalie already knew about the curse placed on Barnabas by Angelique; Joshua told her in #449.

Did Joshua give Natalie any details about what Barnabas's curse actually was?  It may be that she wasn't aware that Barnabas was involved in Josette's death until she put two and two together in the Tower room.
[spoiler]If I remember correctly, Natalie did tend to Millicent after Barnabas bit her, but it may be that Natalie didn't know exactly what had happened.  Perhaps she was given to understand that Millicent had somehow been adversely affected by Bathia's efforts.[/spoiler]

The scene in the secret room of the mausoleum was just a little bit odd.  Ben was trying to keep Nathan from destroying Barnabas.  And yet Ben had tried to destroy Barnabas, at Barnabas's request, and had been unable to do so.  I guess that Ben understood that now Barnabas did not want to be destroyed - but Ben didn't understand why.  Ben didn't understand the whole time travel thing.  Ben knew that Joshua was planning to destroy Barnabas, and as far as Ben knew, Joshua hadn't changed his mind.  Was Ben planning to stop Joshua from destroying Barnabas, too?  It's all very puzzling.  Of course the other question is: could Nathan have destroyed Barnabas?

I enjoyed the part after Nathan was killed and Natalie faced Ben alone.  What a horrific, unexpected situation for her!  She had thought it would be so easy: simply go to the coffin and have Nathan kill the vampire during the day - a consummation devoutly to be wished.  And now she was in danger of her life - and now she was dead.  By rights, her ghost should be haunting that secret room.

We got an interesting statement from Barnabas, and I thank the Robservations for the exact wording: "I'd rather live for eternity trapped in my coffin than live as I must here."  He spent nearly 200 years in that coffin, and it practically drove him insane, and one time in 1967 he pushed Julia's face into the coffin and told her he wasn't going back.  Something like that.  So now here Barnabas is, knowing what it was like, and saying: "I would rather be imprisoned."

I just love it when the chains appear on the coffin.  But the crying of Josette's ghost never works for me.  Oh, well, you win some, you lose some.

[Midnite]

Did Joshua give Natalie any details about what Barnabas's curse actually was?  It may be that she wasn't aware that Barnabas was involved in Josette's death until she put two and two together in the Tower room.

No, he didn't, and Natalie admitted to not knowing more about it and wasn't in the room when Bathia learned the nature of the curse.  Your scenario definitely jibes with what the writers gave us in #665 (Natalie recalling that Josette was pale, etc.), but shouldn't the target of her vengeance be Angelique and not Barnabas?

Joshua did tell her, however, that Barnabas was not dead, so all that "I saw him die" stuff from Natalie in that ep is an annoying continuity error.

[spoiler]If I remember correctly, Natalie did tend to Millicent after Barnabas bit her, but it may be that Natalie didn't know exactly what had happened.  Perhaps she was given to understand that Millicent had somehow been adversely affected by Bathia's efforts.[/spoiler]

That's an interesting theory.  I'm pretty sure the last we saw of Natalie in the original 1796 was when she went to check on Millicent and she still hadn't been told what happened to her.

Of course the other question is: could Nathan have destroyed Barnabas?

A most excellent question, Lydia!

[JWGucciEnvy]

Not having watch the 1796 Storyline in 3 years helped alot. 

Anyway, I don't like that Ben ended up killing Nathan and Natalie. I am not sure if Ben could live with guilt.

So this is the last time I will see Joel Crothers...

[Gothick]

Hey JW,

not having had the time to read all the other posts in the current 1796 thread, I may be repeating something already stated:  Dan Curtis stepped in to direct for this week (so far as I am aware, this was one of his very few, and I believe first, stints directing the show).  After I found this out, certain elements of this flashback that seemed out of sync with the rest of the show started to make sense, due to DC's love of violence as an element of style, Grand Guignol imagery, and plot "twists" that don't always make sense. 

I chalk the notion of Ben killing the Countess and Forbes up to DC's active hand in those shows. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one who came up with that notion.  Some of the most drastic plot twists on the series were dictated by Dan.

cheers, G.

[Lydia]

but shouldn't the target of her vengeance be Angelique and not Barnabas?

Certainly Natalie’s target should be Angelique, but Natalie doesn’t know about the “anyone who loves you will die” part of the curse.  All she knows is that Barnabas is a vampire, and that Barnabas, as a vampire, pursued Josette.  From Natalie's point of view, Barnabas chose to pursue Josette, when he could have left her alone.  Natalie doesn’t know how hard Angelique worked to make that pursuit happen.

As for the “I saw him die” stuff...all I can figure is that Natalie assumed that the Barnabas’s curse was a Sleeping Beauty or Snow White sort of curse, and that when Joshua told Natalie that [spoiler]Bathia Mapes had failed[/spoiler]he said it in such a way as to suggest that Barnabas had slipped from sleep into death – so that the original death might as well have been death.  (And never mind the fact that I don’t think Natalie did see Barnabas die his first death.)  This isn’t a very good rationalization, but it’s the best I can do.

[EmeraldRose]

(How appropriate is it that this ep originally ran on the 13th? )

I thought of that, too,  MB!

This was the final appearance of Joel Crothers. It's too bad he left the show after 2-1/2 years.

The action scenes at the beginning of this episode, when Ben killed Nathan and Natalie, were very exciting! I say good riddance to Nathan. He still ended up dying this time. But it really bothered me when Ben accidentally killed Natalie. She didn't die the first time. I felt sorry for Ben when he felt remorse for what he did. Ben didn't know his own strength. [spoiler]That reminds me of Adam, how he didn't know his own strength, either, and almost accidentally killed Carolyn and Vicki when he grabbed them.[/spoiler]

Here are some problems with the finale of this 1796 sojourn:

I agree, Midnite, with all the discrepancies you listed. It really bothers me that DS was so inconsistent.   I noticed another discrepancy, that the dates on Naomi's tombstone were incorrect.

I was very pleased when Willie was finally right about something! I thought it was neat when the chains and Barnabas appeared just after Willie left the secret room. I wonder... Did Barnabas have to endure 173 years in the coffin, or was it instantaneous when he appeared in 1969 again? I certainly hope it was the latter. That would have been horrible for him to have to lie in that coffin again for all that time.

It was quite evident how much Julia loved Barnabas. It was very touching to watch her try to "will" Barnabas back to her. Willie cared a lot for him, too.

----- Sally -----

[Midnite]

Certainly Natalie’s target should be Angelique, but Natalie doesn’t know about the “anyone who loves you will die” part of the curse.  All she knows is that Barnabas is a vampire, and that Barnabas, as a vampire, pursued Josette.  From Natalie's point of view, Barnabas chose to pursue Josette, when he could have left her alone.  Natalie doesn’t know how hard Angelique worked to make that pursuit happen.

You make great points, and I would be 100% on board for most other characters.  But we're talking about Natalie, who is knowledgeable about witchcraft and expert at the Tarot, so she is well acquainted with the principle of cause and effect.  While it's true she doesn't know that the curse affects everyone that loves Barnabas, she also doesn't know about B&A's affair in Martinique, and at this point she does know that vampire Barnabas victimized Josette because of a curse placed by Angelique, a witch who hid her powers for years as she played the role of a DuPres servant, living under the same roof with Natalie and pretending to be loyal to Josette, and who [spoiler]mocked Natalie when Bathia was brought in to lift the curse...[/spoiler] I think Natalie would be more apt to feel pity for Barnabas and want to throttle the deceitful Angelique for betraying all of them and setting the tragedy in motion, but that's me.

As to other changes, Ben deserved better than to be turned into a cold-blooded murderer, and Natalie deserved better than to be buried in an unmarked grave.  Of course... [spoiler]if one is patient enough, their histories will be rewritten yet again.  <sigh>[/spoiler]

As for the “I saw him die” stuff...all I can figure is that Natalie assumed that the Barnabas’s curse was a Sleeping Beauty or Snow White sort of curse, and that when Joshua told Natalie that [spoiler]Bathia Mapes had failed[/spoiler]he said it in such a way as to suggest that Barnabas had slipped from sleep into death – so that the original death might as well have been death.  (And never mind the fact that I don’t think Natalie did see Barnabas die his first death.)  This isn’t a very good rationalization, but it’s the best I can do.

LOL  And you're right-- not matter when Natalie thinks he died, she still didn't see it. 

[MagnusTrask]

I think Barnabas's return from 1796 has to be the most incoherent thing I've ever seen in TV or film, at least amongst things that were meant to make sense.