Moltke/Scott, House Of Dark Shadows

[dom]

I was wondering what you think would have happened if AM was still on the show when HODS went into production: Would she have played the role that went to Scott and if so, do you think Maggie would have been written into the script?

Also, any thoughts on whether AM coming back to make the movie would have had any impact on the movie itself (the story) or it's gross? I wouldn't expect an impact on it's gross because I imagine every fan went to see it anyway.

Maybe Maggie would have been the first victim instead of Daphne.

[Uncle Roger]

Interesting topic, dom. With Alexandra as the Final Girl, they might have gone ahead and made Vicki the reincarnation of Josette, which seems to be the direction that latter DS interpretations have gone. Without creating another subplot, it would make sense for Maggie to be either Daphne or Nancy Hodiak.
Which raises another question. If Roger Davis hadn't returned to play Jeff Clark, who would have played the hero? David Selby? Or would they have tried to lure Joel Crothers away from Secret Storm?

[michael c]

by the time HoDS went into production Moltke had been gone for almost two years and Scott had played several more "Josette" iterations and was indelibly associated with the character and had also replaced Alex as principal ingénue. she was a shoo-in to play the role in the film...

that said had Alexandra still been part of the cast in 1970 I think the entire film would have been structured differently. but I don't see her playing Josette.

despite attempts in more recent adaptations to make Victoria the "modern" Josette incarnation, or to "merge" Vicki and Maggie into the same person, in the OS the character belonged to KLS.

after 1795 any hint of a connection between Vicki and Josette was abandoned. Barnabas was still in love with her not as some sort of "Josette clone" but on her own terms. 

[michael c]

and as fond of Vicki/Moltke as I (and many fans) am let's face it by 1970 Barnabas the clearly the draw...

I doubt the presence, or absence, of any of the other supporting characters would have much impacted the film's bottom line.

[Gerard]

I think Curtis would've continued with the Maggie/Josette scenario.  Moltke would've been a considerate character, helping to solve the mystery.  HoDS, being so close to the series, would've stuck with the canon.  After not understanding for so long, she would finally understand and send Jeff off to the rescue.  How it turned into Vicki being Josette with '91 is beyond me (and '04).  Thank goodness Tim Burton stuck with the canon - Maggie Evans was Josette; "Victoria Winters" was a "fictional" character.

Gerard

[michael c]

Vicki as a "fictional" character isn't "canon"...

Burton's "merging" of the two characters was his own spin. like making Julia a bl*wjob giving alcoholic, Angelique a fish cannery owner, and Carolyn a werewolf. 

[Cousin_Barnabas]

Considering that KLS had always played Josette, I doubt that Moltke would have suddenly been given the role.  I imagine had Moltke still been around, Maggie's story might have played out more like Carolyn's.  She would have become the film's "Lucy," while Moltke would have become "Mina."  I don't know what they would have done with Carolyn.  She might've just become a background character like the rest of the family members.     

That being said, HoDS and the end of the 1897 storyline are deeply intertwined.  Whatever was happening at the end of 1897 automatically became canon for the film.  1797 became the year of Josette's death.  Barnabas was turned into a vampire by a mysterious "they" as opposed to Angelique.  ("They" undoubtedly being The Leviathans.)  So the real question is what would Moltke's role been in 1897, and how would whoever that character was translate into the film?         

[michael c]

I haven't seen it in a long time...

so Angelique was not referenced as the cause of the curse??? I knew Parker didn't appear in the film but forgot what/who Barnabas' "affliction" had been attributed to.

I certainly never saw a connection between the events of 1897 and/or the leviathan plot in the film. to me it read as a stand-alone story loosely "based on" the early 1967 episodes but with Maggie subbing for Vicki.

[Cousin_Barnabas]

No, Angelique is never referenced in any way, shape, or form.  He says, "When they placed this curse upon me..." 

It's not that the end of 1897 and HoDS were planned to coincide, it just turned out that way because both were written at the same time.  So whatever the writers were doing on the show at that time was transferred, where applicable, to the script for HoDS. 

[Uncle Roger]

The Barnabas origin in HODS was a big discussion in The World of Dark Shadows some years ago. The general consensus was that Barnabas must have run afoul of a cult of some sort. Voodoo perhaps or most likely witches. The Leviathan theory was never mentioned.
HODS runs somewhat similar to the series but has its own unique elements. Daphne and Todd have no direct counterparts in the series. Jeff was never an artist. Vicki probably doesn't exist or is simply not referred to. A lengthy explanation about the whereabouts of a character who never appears on screen would have gotten in the way of the main story.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

As the film stands, when Roger and Liz appear on screen, the audience has no idea what their relationship is because anything establishing that was cut. Nearly everything that illuminated character was cut. So, even if Gordon Russell and Sam Hall had somehow added a wink about Vicki for the established DS audience, chances are DC would have cut it or never even shot it because, as I've lamented before, he was mostly concerned with getting every bit of biting, ripping, tearing, killing, and blood and gore that he could get on screen...

[MagnusTrask]

... he was mostly concerned with getting every bit of biting, ripping, tearing, killing, and blood and gore that he could get on screen...

That was my impression at the time from what was being said about it, and that's why I had no interest in seeing it.

Vicki in the movie... I suppose they could have said her fascination with the past and Josette was her old life reasserting itself.  I don't think Moltke would have been a draw at this point though, since the character was so weakened toward the end.

[Gerard]

I wonder if Barnabas' "origin" would've been fleshed out in the original sequel, where DC wanted to bring him back (but Frid refused to reprise the role, so the second film went in a totally opposite direction).  How a direct sequel would've worked would've been interesting.  Most of the original characters were dead; the only family members left alive were Elizabeth and David.  I imagine Maggie would have remained at Collinwood (married maybe to Jeff or preparing to) in order to take care of David and the traumatized Elizabeth.  Somehow in Hammeresque style with Lee/Dracula films, Barnabas would return to give another shot at wooing Maggie/Josette.  And contained within that would be a flashback to the 1790's with Lara Parker being Angelique (and maybe David Selby playing Jeremiah).  That would allow all the other actors/actresses who were killed off in HoDS to reprise their 1796/97 roles.  Composing a script or bible for an "original" sequel would be great fan fiction.  Hmmm.

Gerard

[Uncle Roger]

I remember reading in the fanzine from the Grayson Hall fan club that the second film was supposed to be either a 1795 story or a Quentin story. The newsletter came out in the summer of 1970, so plans were somewhat vague. Would Jonathan Frid have participated if the series had continued? Would Kathryn Leigh Scott have returned from Europe to play Josette?
Recasting would probably have been inevitable. Kate Jackson as Josette? David Selby, Keith Prentice, John Karlen or Christopher Pennock as Jeremiah or Nathan Forbes? Kathleen Cody as Sarah? (Scary, huh?)  Certain characters and situations might have been combined to make the running time of 90/100 minutes.
Nothing was mentioned as to what form the Quentin story might have taken.

[Gothick]

from one of Sam Hall's interviews about NoDS, it would seem that a werewolf story was considered, but given the cost of the effects and makeup they decided to go with Angelique as a vengeful, seductive ghost instead.  And I think personally that NoDS is a much better movie simply because it is an original story, not a potted version of something already told at length on television.

The other salient fact about NoDS is that Frid apparently backed out somewhat late in the game, which left them scrambling to come up with an alternative because MGM wanted the sequel promptly (for a Summer or early Fall '71 release I think? Sam and Grayson's publicity tour was sometime in August, if I recall correctly).

I really think Frid's flat refusal to do the sequel soured his relationship with Sam and Grayson.  That's pure speculation on my part of course, based on various comments I have read from the Halls in several interviews.

G.