Display Problem

[Josette]

While off-topic for this forum, we do sometimes discuss other computer-related problems, so I thought I'd see if anyone had any suggestions.

I briefly mentioned in another thread about computer problems.  My hard drive went bad and they sent a new one.  After 1 day that one went bad and they sent a second.  It's a little over 1 week and a half since I reinstalled with the new one.

When things were reinstalled (both times) the display was bad.  Number 1, things disappear at the top.  The title bar and the X to close, etc. either can't be seen at all or just the bottom of it shows up a little bit.  Number 2, there are a series of parallel white lines at the top.  About 15-20 lines taking up the top 1 to 1 1/2 inches of the screen.  They show through the menu bars and sometimes make it hard to read items.  The top line goes the width of the screen, the next is a shade smaller, the next still smaller, etc., so that it forms a diagonal blank spot at the side of them by the time one gets to the end of the 15 -20 lines.

I finally had a chance to call Gateway about this.  He had me try some vertical settings on the monitor, do the monitor self-test, unplug everything and replug them, delete and reinstall the graphics drivers.  Nothing helped.

He said my video card is integrated.  The only way they could fix that would be to send the computer back to them.  I've already been without it waiting for the new hard drives, so I can't see doing that.

He suggested buying a separate video card--that wouldn't be covered by the warranty; I'd have to pay for it.  He was on the verge of sending a new monitor, but from what he said during the various tests, it doesn't seem too likely to be the monitor.

He previously suggested reinstalling Windows, in case there was something bad in the install--but having gone through that twice in the last few weeks and having to reinstall all my programs, etc., I certainly don't want to do that unless it really seems that would solve the problem.

Yesterday there was a storm and I unplugged everything.  When I first got connected again, all was normal.  The white lines at the top were gone and the title bars at the top were showing.  I went to a couple of websites, and then all was back to the bad way.  I don't know if that would give anyone a clue.

I'm guessing that buying the video card would be the best solution, but thought I'd wait and get some opinions first.

[McTrooper]

Josette it sounds like you have a lot more problems with your computer than just the video card.
Two hard drives going bad (that's pretty rare) combined with your video problems makes me think it's something to do with the power supply and/or motherboard.
I wouldn't invest money in this potential money pit.
If you can, get a whole new one.

The monitor might be okay, but test your monitor with another computer.  Maybe you have an old computer or could use a friend's.


Note:  Just so this is clear I've got nothing against Gateway.  I'm just basing my suggestions on the symptoms.   

[Midnite]

Geezus, Josette.  You seem so calm about it.  I'd be wanting a whole new system too.

test your monitor with another computer.  Maybe you have an old computer or could use a friend's.

Or try another monitor. Since you've ruled out the drivers, checking for monitor failure seems like the easiest next step.  Has the problem ever gone away temporarily after just shutting off the monitor for a while?

[Josette]

Thank you both for the suggestions.  Someone at my WordPerfect forum also suggested trying the monitor on another computer or trying a different cable.  I'm not sure there's anyone I know well enough to ask.  Possibly one of my customers.

As to the 2 HDs, I've heard that if something is to go bad with a computer it usually happens right away, so I'm guessing that the 1st replacement HD was just a bad one.  I'm close to 2 weeks on the 2nd one and all seems good as far as that is concerned!!

There was a brief time after I installed the 2nd Service Pack for WordPerfect 12 when it was good.  And, as mentioned originally, for a short time after unplugging everything for the storm, when it first came up it was fine--then very shortly afterwards went bad again.

I don't know that I'm so calm!!  While waiting for the first HD to come, I managed to get it to work in Safe Mode, so I was able to get some work ready, just not print it.  I also did a complete backup so that almost everything would be in the proper folder and I wouldn't have to copy a WHOLE LOT of individual files into my previous backup.  And, I was able to learn what to do to copy my e-mail, fax, bookmarks, address book, etc.

The drive came, I called for installation help, and we apparently didn't understand each other about which screw to remove in the back.  I couldn't open the computer!!  He was going to have me wipe the old one and try to reinstall on that, but when it came up---all was fine!!!!!!

About 3 days later it failed completely. I took the computer to a nearby repair place to learn how to open it; I had been removing the wrong screw!   So, I got the new drive in, Windows reinstalled, my major programs up and running, was getting caught up on work, and then that drive went bad after the 1 day.  They promised a "priority shipment" but sent it regular ground, so I was without anything for several days, just when I was getting caught up with my customers' work - so I was anything but calm then!!

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I don't like the sound of any of this.    Though the good news, if you can call it that, might be that your original hard drive seems to have died from natural causes, meaning simple every day wear from use. No hard drive lasts forever, and the more one uses a computer, the sooner a hard drive is likely to fail. The best way to stave off a hard drive failure is to make sure you keep the interior of your computer as ventilated as possible. Never put your computer directly on a carpeted floor because that tends to block one of the case's primary vents. And make sure that fans are installed in every possible spot within the case. Today most cases have spots for at least two - one in back and one in front. Heat is the absolute worst enemy of hard drives.

As for the first replacement drive, well, if your computer's BIOS didn't detect it once it failed, chances are the problem was a physical one, meaning either mechanical or electronic. The main sign that a mechanical failure has occurred is if your hard drive makes a clicking or grinding noise. But electrical failures are sadly only too common, and they can occur just as easily on a new drive as with an old one. Heat is definitely an issue when it comes to electrical failures.

Your monitor is a bit of a puzzling situation. The reason the problem disappeared after you shut off the computer could be because the problem, whatever it is, doesn't occur until the monitor's circuits have warmed up. But it could also be that it doesn't occur until your computer's motherboard's circuits have warmed up. From your description of what's happening, it certainly seems as if it's some sort of physical rather than a software issue, but, unfortunately, the only real ways to figure out if it's the monitor itself or the motherboard's integrated video circuits is to 1) connect your monitor to another computer and work with it long enough to be absolutely sure there's no problem with it, or 2) connect a different monitor to your computer to see if it has the same sort of display issues. I really wouldn't recommend buying a new video card without knowing for certain that there isn't a problem with the monitor because that could easily be a waste of your money (though if it does end up that you need a video card, I wouldn't necessarily worry about warranty issues because any video card you buy is going to come with its own warranty).

[Josette]

Thank you, MB, for the additional thoughts.  I don't think it has to do with either the monitor or motherboard warming up, because I turn it off each night.  When I first turn it on, the problem is generally there.  That's why it was such a pleasant surprise to see it look normal the other night (just before I was about to call Gateway!).  Then I went to one or two websites and suddenly realized it was back to the bad way.

They did offer to send a new monitor, so I could wait and see if that works, but since from the diagnostic (the monitor self-test said it was working), he didn't seem to think that was the problem.  If I buy the video card and it doesn't work, I can send it back, so that does seem to be the easiest thing to try.

My comments about the warranty were that if there is something wrong with my system and I need a new video card, I would think it should come under my current warranty and I shouldn't have to pay for it.  Apparently that only applies to the card I actuallly have, which as an integrated card can only be replaced if I send the whole computer back to them, being without it all that time again, and paying the postage to send it.  That option definitely does not seem to be the way to go!!

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Thank you, MB, for the additional thoughts.  I don't think it has to do with either the monitor or motherboard warming up, because I turn it off each night.  When I first turn it on, the problem is generally there.  That's why it was such a pleasant surprise to see it look normal the other night (just before I was about to call Gateway!).

That makes things even more puzzling. In my experience, physical hardware problems generally don't appear, disappear briefly, and then reappear unless there's some sort of heat issue involved. They disappear because something was allowed time to cool off. That your display issue is generally there when you first turn on your computer, but it wasn't there that one time, is, to say the least, extremely odd. It's no wonder the Gateway tech had such a problem trying to get to the bottom of it. Your situation is a real head scratcher! 

If I buy the video card and it doesn't work, I can send it back, so that does seem to be the easiest thing to try.

Please be absolutely certain that IS the case before ordering. More often than not only defective merchandise can be sent back - and then it's usually only for a replacement - not a refund.

My comments about the warranty were that if there is something wrong with my system and I need a new video card, I would think it should come under my current warranty and I shouldn't have to pay for it.  Apparently that only applies to the card I actuallly have

Exactly. No one is going to replace an existing piece of hardware for free with anything but a similar type of hardware (meaning video card for video card, sound card for sound card, motherboard for motherboard, monitor for monitor, etc.). No one is generous enough to hand out something for free that's completely different and separate from what you already have. 

[Josette]

Correction!!  MB, thank you, you got me on to the right track!!

The blue background that comes with Windows shows the lines.  All my applications show the lines.  But, I've changed the desktop to black, and for some reason the lines don't show up on that!!  When I move the mouse pointer to the top, the lines show through that bit.  Also, I have the icons arranged just low enough to avoid disappearing at the top.

I generally get up early to turn the computer on in case someone needs to fax me, then go back to bed.  So, I normally don't look at it when it first comes up.  It suddenly occurred to me that I really didn't know if it was good or bad when first turned on.

So, today I looked.  It was good for a little bit, then went bad.  I turned off the monitor, went back to bed, checked later.  It was good again.  It took longer to go bad, but after a bit it did.  I assumed that proved it was the monitor.  But the person I talked to today said that the monitor test showed the monitor was good and that the video card could behave that way.

Again, I'd have to send it back to get that replaced.  The cost to send it back would be as much or more as this additional video card, and I'd be without it for 7 -10 days, which would be bad at any time, let alone right after all the down time I just had, so I ordered this additional card.

Thank you again for the suggestion, I don't think I would have thought of that!!! 

[FireRose]

Could the monitor tube be going to the bad? Has anyone checked that out?

I know that some tv's get white lines at the top of them when the picture tube is getting ready to go bad or blow as some people refer to it as doing.

FireRose

[Josette]

Thank you for the additional suggestion, FireRose.  When I discovered that it was good when cold and then shortly afterwards went bad, I assumed that was proof it was the monitor.  They say that the monitor self-test says it's good and that the video card could cause that, so, we'll see!

[Josette]

They sent the card immediately. It arrived today even though their website says it will be next Tuesday. The first problem was that I can't get the screw out in the back. But, while I was struggling with that, he looked up the part and my system and said they sent the wrong card--it won't fit my system!!!!!

Does anyone know about getting the screw out from the back? From their instructions I'm sure I'm unscrewing the right thing. I had to use pliers to get started, but now I have it so I can turn it quite easily with my fingers, but I can't remove it. He said I'm supposed to try pulling it while turning. I decided to wait for the new card to arrive before trying anything else, but in case someone has a suggestion for how to get it out, I'd appreciate it!!!

[Josette]

Update

The new video card is in place. It partially fixed the problem. The top still disappears, but not as much. I can now read most of the title bar and easily find the "closing X" etc. Part of it is still missing, but at least most of it shows up.

There are still lines running across the top, but a lot fewer, so it doesn't run through as much of the menus and isn't so apparent.

So--is it the video card or something else? Clearly the card helped, but since it didn't fix the problem something else must still be happening.   

[Josette]

Further update - I installed the drivers that came with the card.  It offered a lot of options for adjusting all sorts of settings.  For resolution I found that 848 x 480 (which wasn't available under plain Windows) fixed the problem.  However, I had to use buttons on the monitor to adjust vertical and horizontal to get things right.

So, that problem is solved, but now a lot of the fonts are too big.  I can't see as much of a document at once, some other things appear a bit distorted.  The pictures here for the daily "scenes" are too long.  I can't see the whole picture and the caption at the same time, as I did before.

Since the previous way was almost all right - most of the top bar showing and only a few lines, I think I might go back to my old resolution. 

[Josette]

Latest update - it's back to the way it was.  Apparently the video card didn't help at all!!

The latest from Gateway is that there is a problem on the motherboard.  I could send it back to them and be without it for (the earlier one said 7-10 days, this one said 3-4 weeks!!!) - since this is for my business, that's out of the question.

They can send the motherboard to me.  I can take it to someone to install (don't know how much that would be) or have their on-site support come and that would be $!99!!!!!!

The thing is--this is more of a nuisance than anything important.  I'll keep it as is rather than pay that.  But, if it's a sign of a problem on the motherboard that could get worse, then I should replace it now before that happens.

(By the way, she said it was the AGP slot on the motherboard.  However, I pointed out that the original video card is integrated on the motherboard.  That AGP slot wasn't used until I got the new card.  She still thinks it's the motherboard.  I don't know whether to believe it or not.)

Anyone have any suggestions?

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I've hesitated posting this, but since you're still having problems I probably should share that in my experience one can't always rely on a monitor's self-test to always come up with accurate info. Case in point: I still have an old monitor whose self-test tells me it's fine, yet the RGB (Red, Green, Blue) circuit for red died long ago. Mostly everything on screen displays in yellows and greens - rendering the display virtually unreadable - and it's clearly NOT fine despite what the self-test says (I only keep it around as a backup should something happen to my main monitor and I need something to use while I either have the main one fixed or I look for a new one). Self-tests are NOT infallible. And although I have no way of knowing how honestly the Gateway techs you've talked to operate, I do know that many companies aren't about to admit that. They'll say things like you "could" send the monitor in for replacement, never that you "should," and they will especially never use the phrase "I would recommend that you send it back" because their bottom line isn't necessarily to make sure their customers' systems are working properly - it's to save their company as much expense and hassle as possible.

Food for thought...

Further update - I installed the drivers that came with the card.  It offered a lot of options for adjusting all sorts of settings.  For resolution I found that 848 x 480 (which wasn't available under plain Windows) fixed the problem.  However, I had to use buttons on the monitor to adjust vertical and horizontal to get things right.

So, that problem is solved, but now a lot of the fonts are too big.  I can't see as much of a document at once, some other things appear a bit distorted.  The pictures here for the daily "scenes" are too long.  I can't see the whole picture and the caption at the same time, as I did before.

A resolution of 848X480 is non-standard and shouldn't actually fill the monitor screen. Standard resolutions use a 4:3 ratio: 640X480, 800X600, 1024X768, 1280X960, 1400X1050, 1600X1200, etc. Another example of a non-standard resolution is that my monitor has an option for 1280X1024, which is a 5:4 ratio, and which doesn't fill the screen - there are approximately 86 extra black pixels on both the right and left sides of the display - and if I was to adjust the display with my monoitor's horizontal controls so that it would fill the screen, I'd be distorting the way it's supposed to display. 848X480 is an extremely non-standard ratio of 5.3:3, and it's designed to display with 78 extra black pixels on both the top and bottom of the screen. Adjusting the display with a monoitor's vertical controls so that it would fill the screen would really distort the way it's designed to appear.

Latest update - it's back to the way it was. Apparently the video card didn't help at all!!

The latest from Gateway is that there is a problem on the motherboard. ... (By the way, she said it was the AGP slot on the motherboard. However, I pointed out that the original video card is integrated on the motherboard. That AGP slot wasn't used until I got the new card. She still thinks it's the motherboard. I don't know whether to believe it or not.)

Anyone have any suggestions?

Sad to say, but it sounds to me like these people really have no idea what the problem actually is and they're simply pulling reasons out of a hat at this point. You rightly point out that the AGP slot would have had absolutely nothing to do with your original problem - though that still doesn't positively rule out a problem with the motherboard. However, to me the only constant in all this is that you're still using the same monitor. Is there really no way that you can see if the monitor works fine on another computer? Until you're absolutely positive that the monitor itself isn't malfunctioning in some way, I wouldn't suggest accepting any more hardware from them or causing yourself any more expense.