Barnabas--Love and Lust list

[Misty]

  I always felt that Angelique was Barn's true love. She certainly knew him the longest and didn't really give up----having done some nasty things. But I think Josette was his social equal; Maggie was a replacement; Roxanne wasn't on long enough to judge; Julia was a beloved friend (Barn's point of view); Vickie didn't return his affection,in the same way, and I thought he let her go without much ado; Angelique was the one he turned to for help--even to spare the lives of his other ladies. And, of course, when she finally gave up trying ----------don't want to be a spoiler. I've watched the complete series several times and I always come away with the same impression.
                                          Misty

[Julia99]

In my opinion Barnabas Collins' only deeply abiding love affair was with his own self-preservation.  In order to avoid either the stake-in-the-heart OR the chain-on-the-casket he was willing to, and often DID allow the death or misery of those around him.  Especially the women.

How many time did he ever say "I love you" as opposed to how many times he said "he/she/it MUST be DESTROYED!"?

I think we should now seal this topic because Rainey spoken the absolute TRUTH. . .

[Heather]

In my opinion Barnabas Collins' only deeply abiding love affair was with his own self-preservation.  In order to avoid either the stake-in-the-heart OR the chain-on-the-casket he was willing to, and often DID allow the death or misery of those around him.  Especially the women.

How many time did he ever say "I love you" as opposed to how many times he said "he/she/it MUST be DESTROYED!"?

With all due respect... I wholeheartedly DISAGREE. Watching the entire series with a fine tooth comb (like all of you out there), I know what you guys mean about Barnabas...he wasn't all sweetness and light by any stretch of the imagination...he could be a downright bastard when he wanted (or was driven) to be. However, That character is a lot more complex than one who wishes to destroy... sorry.

Back in my corner,

Heather

[Miss_Winthrop]

With all due respect... I wholeheartedly DISAGREE. Watching the entire series with a fine tooth comb (like all of you out there), I know what you guys mean about Barnabas...he wasn't all sweetness and light by any stretch of the imagination...he could be a downright bastard when he wanted (or was driven) to be. However, That character is a lot more complex than one who wishes to destroy... sorry.

I thought he treated Maggie the worst of all the women.  She was entirely expendable and he never hesitated to put her life on the line if he had to. Her resemblance to Josette aside, I think he looked down on her station in life.  The daughter of an alcholic father with no  money or connections to speak of.  But I agree, the man was such a complex character.  He was in a constant fight against the evil side of his nature trying to take him over. This is why his story is so fascinating IMO.

[Julia99]

Well.  ..he did give a little, i stress a little but only 'cuz of his own self-interest or lust. . .for Josette, Vicki or Kitty.  The only selfless things he did were for Vicki (not biting her and going back in time to save her from execution). ..all other actions were motivated to save his own sorry behind. . .not that i don't enjoy watching it but let's be real, Barnabas was a selfish son-of-a--you know the rest.  And that does not robe him (for his lusty admirrers) of his romantic aura. . if you look at the great romantic heros of literature .. they are mostly all in the same vein.

 

[Joeytrom]

I never liked the Maggie/Barnabas in love angle of the Leviatian storyline.  It came out of nowhere-prior to 1897, Maggie never showed any interest in Barnabas.

[spoiler]During Leviathan, When Josette's ghost tells Barnabas she is at peace and he is to move on with his life, giving her ring back to him, what does Barnabas do?  He gives it to Maggie, the current Josette lookalike![/spoiler]

[jennifer]

i'm with Rainey Barnabas wasn't really good to any of his
"women" he loved SYT 's, a lot like Bill Clinton, but that doesn't mean
we can't "like" him Hell i'd vote for Clinton again!

jennifer
there is somethin about "bad" men

[Angelina]

I think part of his horrid attitude toward Maggie can be attributed, though, to the initial intent of having him just be a temporary character.  He was the most vile toward her and, has been pointed out, even looked down upon her because of her station in life.

Once he became popular and female fans wrote letters offering him their necks (and them some!  ) there was little choice but to keep him along and try to redeem him some.

Of course, he could still be nasty but, well, his early treatment of Maggie was utterly diabolical.

Kind of neat how he was so snobbish toward Maggie yet when we see him in the past, he's busy trying to teach Ben Stokes (great character is Ben, btw) letters and writing.   

It's right about him being like a romantic hero though.  He is v. Bronte-esque to me.  All dark, sexy, and troubled with outlandish mood swings...while not being conventionally handsome or charming (just handsome & charming in his own bizarre way).

[Heather]

Well.  ..he did give a little, i stress a little but only 'cuz of his own self-interest or lust. . .for Josette, Vicki or Kitty.  The only selfless things he did were for Vicki (not biting her and going back in time to save her from execution). ..all other actions were motivated to save his own sorry behind. . .not that i don't enjoy watching it but let's be real, Barnabas was a selfish son-of-a--you know the rest.  And that does not robe him (for his lusty admirrers) of his romantic aura. . if you look at the great romantic heros of literature .. they are mostly all in the same vein. 

You *know* you love it when I get riled up, doncha J99?   

Yes, Barnabas could be a total ass sometimes...but then, what man have you known hasn't? [NO offense meant to any fellas on the board out there - just trying to make a point - you guys rock]  The thing that I like about this character is that, despite his flaws, he has a heart underneath it all. A troubled heart, but it's there nonetheless. Throughout the series, he is in a constant struggle with good and evil...both external and internal. That continuing struggle (to maintain some semblance of humanity) is what makes the character attractive to all us nuts out here... 

And as far as his being selfish is concerned...and I won't deny that he IS many a time (yes, his treatment of Maggie and several other women wasn't too kind at times)...there are several instances when he could've just stayed bundled up like a warm cinnamon roll in front of the fireplace in the Old House Drawing room (now there's a visual - LOL), but he didn't. When things came up, he usually noticed and dealt with it as best he could...often with Julia's persuasion and help, of course (no naughty pun intended, you wenches out there... )

Even when he was first turned into a vampire, he cared very much what happened to his sister, his mother, and Ben. The changes he went through are part of what made the character so interesting; including that struggle to maintain an ounce of humanity, his rage, the joy in revenge, the fear of exposure, the need to control when he first reemerged. Once he was able to walk in the daylight again, the almost constant theme was how he was sticking his neck out and putting his buns on the line for someone else.

He did everything he could to keep the family safe and nearly died more than once because of it. [I know, one could argue that the Collins family was too much of a priority for Barnabas at times...I've thought that myself. But keep in mind that he was an 18th century guy--with all those notions of honor and what his priorities should be (including that inbred and post-tramatic tendency to go after all those SYT's ); trying to find peace in a time and worlds alien to him]

Tom Jennings almost took him out when he went to the crypt to stake him and save Julia.  If it hadn't been for the sun coming up, Barnabas would have been in deep trouble. Willie even said how Barnabas had changed. In the scene where he's been bitten by the bat again at the end of the dream curse, he and Julia are standing by the grave they dug and Willie says, "He was so different, ever since I came back this time." Later on, those three characters are like a family trying to keep their heads above water (okay, they were dysfunctional clan, but still...LOL)

Another example...If he only cared about himself, then why did he I-Ching back to 1897 to prevent David from dying?  Why did he risk his life to save Chris?  During that point in time, he was human and safe and sound living in the Old House.

Barnabas definitely had good in him. A lot of it. Could he still be blind as a bat and insensitive...YUP. He definitely deserved a nice slap upside the head on more than a few occasions...that thick Collins skull, ya know (LOL).   Although it can often seem futile, patience is a virtue when dealing with Barnabas. And IMHO, Julia wouldn't have cared about and come to love a complete jerk - she had much better taste than that. 


Okay, I'm a typical Gemini...Love Grayson and Barnabas (despite his eccentricities) all at the same time.  Are ya ready to whip me with my T-square at high noon yet...?   LOL


Wait--I got a better idea. I'm gonna go make me a batch of de-luxe brownies[/b]...I feel calmer already (chuckle). Anyone want one?  I make em with extra cocoa (the baking variety, that is).  Tastyyyyy...  


Love ya you evil thing you,

Heather

[Miss_Winthrop]

Heather.  You have said it so perfectly. Wow!

[stefan]

I think the thrust and angles of Barnabas' character may be due to Frids' (as someone else said in tihs discussion) popularity and the scrambling of "rewriting" character to suit a growing female fanbase. First he was a baaad vampire to be quickly written off, then as his popularity soared and JF's acting talent recognized Barnabas became a romantic but still baad vampire, then in 1795 it was explained why he was baad.
Its understandable that this emotional and romantic man who seemed very gentle and considerate in 1795 would turn into a hardened ego-centric vampire/person while lying in a coffin for over a 100 years after murdering dozens of woman because of an affair he had with his fiancee's maid and witnessing his family dropping off like flies because of it. I feel Barnabas changed from what he originally was before he became a vampire and even when he was turned back into a human (how many times did that happen?) he still retained some of those hardened characteristics.

[IluvBarnabas]

I just read Heather's long and fascinating post about Barnabas and I must say....BRAVO!!! Now I think I'll add my own two cents (equally as long and maybe even more!)

There's no denying Barnabas could be really selfish and awful at times but he was also a lot more selfless than people give him credit for.

Barnabas did treat Maggie really awful especially when [spoiler]he wanted to turn her into Josette and she kept refusing to give in. And I agree he was totally in the wrong for deciding that she should be the sacrificial lamb in the experiment to create a mate for Adam, the man who was at least partially responsible for her Pop's death. But you know once Maggie replaced Vicki as David's governess, I think Barnabas did grow fond of her and grew to care for her. Notice how panic-stricken he was when Maggie went missing for a couple of episodes during the Leviathan story (Jeb had abducted her and placed her in the late Sheriff Davenport's "custody.")

Barnabas also really treated Julia badly when she was trying to cure him in 1967....he was always so suspicious of her that he felt he had to throttle her whenever she didn't tell him every little detail of what was happening around Collinwood everyday. Once the curse is removed that first time after 1795, he does treat Julia much better (hey he stopped wanting to throttle her and that's definitely a big improvement in my book!) and grew to care for her very much. Unfortunately though he did seem to take her for granted at times, especially when he was lusting for whichever SYT that was in his life at the time. (Frankly, I don't know what he ever saw in Roxanne....Julia was much more attractive than her IMO). However I remember when he found out Julia had betrayed him in 1995 to the sheriff....she told him to go back to 1970 without her and he refused. "Never without you", he says. Such a wonderful moment of tenderness from Barnabas towards Julia....and when Julia went missing in 1840, thanks to Angelique and vamp Roxanne, Barnabas was so frantic to find her.[/spoiler]

Heather already named his other selfless deeds, so I won't repeat it.

Barnabas wasn't perfect, he had a lot of flaws and faults like everyone else, but that's what makes him such a fascinating character to watch. If Barnabas WAS perfect, would we all be talking about him?

[Nancy]

When I was a kid and DS was all the rage, I was fascinated with the character beyond bellief (well, not beyond belief here on this board).  I thought he was handsome too.  However, I did not at any time want the man in my house either as a human being or a vampire.  I didn't fault Barnabas for being screwed up in the head as anyone who had been through what he had would be messed up.  As much as I liked the courtly manners (when he wasn't strangling someone) and the vocal qualities of the character, in really thinking about it I could not imagine myself going on a roller coaster or to the beach even with the human Barnabas.  Even if I could, his penchant for having Plan B ready (that meant killing someone) if Plan A didn't work out was not romantic enough for me to develop that kind of crush on the character.

Maybe I'm just old but being strangled has never appealed to me.

Nancy

[adamsgirl]

I agree with what someone said about Angelique. I think she was his one true love, which he finally admitted to in 1840. I always believed his oft-spoken "love" for Josette was something he made himself believe. Theirs was not a true love match, IMO. It was a business alliance between two powerful shipping families. In fact, that was alluded to:
[spoiler]when Andre and Joshua were discussing it in the drawing room of the Old House, they mentioned how beneficial this marriage between their two children would be to their financial holdings.[/spoiler]

As proof, how about when Angelique first came to Collinwood? Barnabas kept trying to put her off, yet ...
[spoiler]when he went to her room, he couldn't resist her and kissed her passionately.[/spoiler]

Some may say that was lust, but I believe it really was love. And after all was said and done, no matter what Angelique did, he always needed her.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

When I was a kid and DS was all the rage, I was fascinated with the character beyond bellief (well, not beyond belief here on this board).