DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '08 II => Topic started by: IluvBarnabas on July 15, 2008, 08:26:02 PM
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I know many on here enjoy them so much when they were at each other's throats during the early days of their relationship and again when they're at odds during the Leviathan storyline, and I too was entertained watching them go up against each other, but I also enjoyed watching how their relationship developed and they became so much closer as time went by (though not quite as close as Julia would have liked for sure!).
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I liked the as enemies in the Leviathan ep's best!! They were really worse (to me) than in the beginnings of their "relationship". I think Barnabas deep down loved Julia. I also think if the show "had" lasted it would have happend. That one scene in "1995" gives us a bit of hope. Well those of us who thought these two "BELONGED" together.
Okay to sum this up. I like them best as friends.
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There are many of us who would say that if the story had continued, Barnabas and Julia would have been a couple. There are great fan fiction stories with them as central characters and the writers portray them very accurately IMO.
I love the chemistry between Barnabas and Julia in any situation they found themselves i.e. as enemies, as co-conspirators, as adversaries, and as best friends. Barnabas has proven time and again that he cared deeply for Julia but he could not say in so many words that he loved her as more than just friends. With Julia, his affections grew slowly but steadily. With all the other SYT, he just had to look at them and he said he loved them.
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IMHO, Barnabas and Julia made the show. I liked them best as friends. Would have loved it if they became more than friends.
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They did make the show IMHO as well. That is GH for ya. Introducing subtext that would be one of the driving points of the show's entire run. GH..wherever you are. We miss ya. [ghost_wub] Perhaps in our 2008 Parallel Time GH and JF are doing this week's Fest together or have in our past PT. Oh one can dream can't they? Sorry that was random. I just love Julia Barney GH and JF! And I would probably say there isn't a PT. Would be nice though.....
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I've always like Barnabas and Julia as friends and allies. But the one thing I cannot figure out is when
Barnabas felt betrayed by Julia and he used some power to make Julia believed she is being haunted
by Dr. Woodard and after the 1795 Flashback, Barnabas wanted Julia's help again. But she must have
agreed when Barnabas and Vicki had that car accident and Julia made a phone call for an ambulance
to get Barnabas out of the hospital before sunrise.
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No, I don't think Julia had agreed to anything, but when someone you love is in an accident, you don't put conditions on saving his life.
As for the original question...I can't come up with a preference at the moment. Barnabas is more interesting when he's bad, so that sort of pushes me towards preferring them to be enemies, but that's not really an applicable consideration. I'm trying to remember a situation in which they were enemies and Barnabas was the good guy and Julia was the bad guy, and the only one I can think of is parallel time, which doesn't count because the Julia was PT Julia, not RT Julia. If RT Julia were the bad guy and Barnabas were the good guy, would I enjoy it as much as the other way around? I suspect I would. Good Julia would never destroy Bad Barnabas because she couldn't bear to, but would Good Barnabas destroy Bad Julia for the good of the Collins family?
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I like conflicted Barnabas. If he's just "bad" that has limited appeal for me, and if he's just plain "good" that gets boring too. In 1795 before being bitten I like plain old good Barnabas a lot, though. My favorite time is early 1897 where part of him is his vampire self and part is his reformed self.
Seeing Barnabas and Julia at odds with Leviathans just made me uncomfortable and unhappy.
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I wouldn't have minded seeing Barnabas and Julia in real conflict late in the show. Leviathans has never counted for me because Barnabas was brainwashed and wasn't himself. The conflict was artificial. It didn't even do anything for me to see him portrayed as "bad" again, because it wasn't even his choice or decision.
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I liked them better as friends, for sure. Mainly because I like them both a lot and like to root for them both simultaneously. I have to say though, when they were mad at each other, I tended to root for Julia. She's very clever a resourceful considering she has no supernatural powers!
Slightly off topic-- it became clear, at least eventually, that Julia loved Barnabas. Why didn't she die from the curse? Angelique didn't seem to specify what type of love it needed to be, because both Josette and Naomi died by the curse. Usually when one curses someone else, the curse sort of has a mind of its own and forces itself to be carried out. So eventhough Angelique didn't specifically try to harm Julia (too many times), it seems like she would die somehow ... Like get struck by lightning or something (especially with all the storms in Collinsport).
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The curse is on or within Barnabas, so maybe he has to know someone loves him.
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some of my favorite scenes are the nights of 1967.
julia is working late at the old house and she and barnabas engage in some delicious cat-and-mouse dialogue.
i just love it.so if not necessarily "enemies" i prefer them at least in some way conflicted.it's more complex and interesting to me than when she's sort of functioning as his assistant and time travel companion.
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I think my all time favorite is when Julia is hurt and Barnabas carries her into the old house and gently sets her down in the chair by the fire. Just the look of concern and caring on his face gets me everytime.
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I think the writers forgot about the conflict between Barn and Julia before 1795.
GH did some great acting before 1795. You could feel the conflict.
All the sweet young things, got a little lame. It was like the writers were just trying to
make conflict with Barn and Julia.
Barnabas showed his love and caring for Julia in so many ways. Maybe they were afraid
to have them come together, they would have had to find a new way to have a conflict
between them.
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I don't know offhand about any love relationships that were interesting onscreen. Romantic movies always end with the wedding, and that's probably wise.
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Barnabas showed his love and caring for Julia in so many ways. Maybe they were afraid
to have them come together, they would have had to find a new way to have a conflict
between them.
BUT....wouldn't julia have died? i mean the curse clearly states that anyone who loves him will die.....HEY, wait a minute. how come she never died. perhaps she never loved barnabas, but it was a very clever ruse to get into maggie's skirts, how ever mini they were.
wow, i just realized that big inconsistancy. -
If the original Sam Evans had stayed around, i think that julia and he would have made a good couple. i liked barnabas and julia as friends and/or enemies.
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It may have only been a matter of weeks between Julia developing this love for Barnabas (which considering the circumstances was awfully contrived at the time) and his cure by Lang, the first one with drugs, which must have interfered with the curse in a big way, if it didn't end it, which I guess it didn't. The thing with Adam did. Anyway, after a certain point the curse was over, and Julia was safe. The Leviathans [spoiler]revampirization was separate from Ang's curse.[/spoiler]
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Good point Magnus. I hadn't thought about it that way!!
EDIT: OH MY GOODNESS! I am a SENIOR POSTER!! I am have been watching for this for days. I knew it had to be coming soon!! I am a senior poster, I am a senior poster! *HAPPY DANCE* [blob6] What is next? Being a GOD. Hmm...I like that idea! :)
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When you reach godhood, never forget the little people you squashed to get there! I know I haven't!
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Happy Seniorhood, Taeylor! [milestone]
ProfStokes
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Maybe the unique MoJo Julia had to keep the Leviathan curse at bay kept Angelique's curse from afflicting her. . .in fanfiction there have been some intriguing ideas regarding Julia's family history tied to others who'd lived at Collinwood.. .you know maybe a connection to Magda or others--
Anyway the writers didn't worry about it. .why do we?
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I rather like the unrequited love that Julia feels for Barnabas...it makes for great tension and character development. Julia never suffered the curse of loving Barnabas since Angelique understood that he never would and perhaps never could return those feelings of Julia's.
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Congratulations to our newest senior member!
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Well I persoanlly care about a lot of things the writers didn't care about Julia99 but that is just me! And thanks for the congrats everyone!! :) [ghost_wink]
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Tough, but I think I liked the close relationship that developed between them best. I really liked that not only was there some unrequited love there, but they were also great friends (and occasionally co-conspirators). Of course, sometimes you just want to pound some sense into Barnabas' head after Julia keeps getting passed up for the next "Josette" that turns up. She saved his butt so many times and all she ever got was "Julia, I can't tell you how grateful I am." [rleyeb]
Of course, I kind of feel like, deep down, he really did love her... but that's me.
However, their early relationship was definitely interesting! I loved the dynamic between them while they were at each others throats. Jonathan Frid and Grayson Hall had such great chemistry, so I really think all of their characters, in whatever situation, were wonderful together.
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However, their early relationship was definitely interesting! I loved the dynamic between them while they were at each others throats. Jonathan Frid and Grayson Hall had such great chemistry, so I really think all of their characters, in whatever situation, were wonderful together.
I couldn't have said it better my self dear!! :) [ghost_wink]
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Of course, sometimes you just want to pound some sense into Barnabas' head after Julia keeps getting passed up for the next "Josette" that turns up. She saved his butt so many times and all she ever got was "Julia, I can't tell you how grateful I am."
If Barnabas decides to be sensible, what does he do about this? Is love a decision you consciously make based on sense?
I think Ang's curse about Barnabas-lovers dying was just part of the vampire curse. Vampirism or side-issues relating to it was how those people would die. The Leviathans didn't reinstate Ang's curse, at least they never said they had to, to make someone a vampire. Sure, the Ang Curse was again an issue in 1897 and 1840, but he'd gone back in time. Her curse was still on him back then.
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If Barnabas decides to be sensible, what does he do about this? Is love a decision you consciously make based on sense?
I think many a Julia-Barnabas fan would argue he did love her (and give examples particularly in the last one to two years of the show) but she didn't fit into his 'ideal' woman, being independent, bossy, argumentative not compliant, shy and retiring or 22. . .so when it is said "come to his senses" it is meant that he has a moment of self-realization about that aspect not about how he feels but his own acceptance of it-- IMO [ghost_wink]
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Sadly, Barnabas isn't very well equipped in the self-realization department. Such moments of clarity are few and far between for him - and usually far too late in the game. [sad3]
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I think that many of us can relate to the one sided love story of Barnabas and Julia. Julia was so in love with Barnabas and he didn't even have a clue. Barnabas was blind to Julia's love for him because he was always searching for his Josette. This is a wonderful love story that kept me hanging on and wishing that Barnabas would wake up and smell the coffee but it never happened. I'm still holding out for this love story to continue in the new film.
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I personally think Barnabas "knew" Julia loved him especially after [spoiler]WILLIE (of all people, which makes one love him more) points it out to Barney when she is being attacked by Tom.[/spoiler]
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I'm sure Barnabas knew - he just didn't seem to return the feelings. I think he really cared about her in the end, but wasn't in love with her. He wasn't blind, he just didn't reciprocate.
I've been the Barnabas in a situation, and you can't force feelings that you don't have. Maybe one day he would have loved her like she did him, maybe not. You can be a close friend to someone and love them, and not be in love with them.
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I personally believe toward the end of the show Barnabas was realizing he indeed did loved Julia. He just wouldn't state it because of the curse. I choose to believe Barney had drank a bunch of absinthe the day he told[spoiler] Angelique he loved her.[/spoiler]
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Taeylor, you nailed the situation perfectly.
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Thank you "Daaaaahling" as Grayson would say! :)
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I think many a Julia-Barnabas fan would argue he did love her (and give examples particularly in the last one to two years of the show) but she didn't fit into his 'ideal' woman, being independent, bossy, argumentative not compliant, shy and retiring or 22. . .so when it is said "come to his senses" it is meant that he has a moment of self-realization about that aspect not about how he feels but his own acceptance of it-- IMO [ghost_wink]
I agree with Barnabas'sBride, but this is a good argument. I'd add that abother possibility is that with Barnabas's life extension via vampirism, and all the time-traveling, a sense may have been created in his head that he's going to live forever, and that therefore his options are limitless, therefore he can just keep searching for some abstract, perfect (for him), youthful ideal. He might be a bit like a kid in a candy store. Once he's lived with mortality for awhile (which he really never had a chance to do on DS), he could shift his expectations and begin looking at real people whom he feels close to, rather than some romantic fantasy.
I think he would need some peace and quiet and to have the crises over for awhile to tell, which could never happen during DS.
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I think many a Julia-Barnabas fan would argue he did love her (and give examples particularly in the last one to two years of the show) but she didn't fit into his 'ideal' woman, being independent, bossy, argumentative not compliant, shy and retiring or 22. . .so when it is said "come to his senses" it is meant that he has a moment of self-realization about that aspect not about how he feels but his own acceptance of it-- IMO [ghost_wink]
Well, you just saved me an explanation because that is what I was going for when I mentioned him coming to his senses.
A bit off topic, but notice how Barnabas' relationships with the "ideal" women you described always end in something very bad... [scratch]
I choose to believe Barney had drank a bunch of absinthe the day he told[spoiler] Angelique he loved her.[/spoiler]
I'm with you on this one too. I definitely believe that he feels something for her, and maybe that he does love her to a certain extent, but...
[spoiler]... I personally don't see her being his "one true love" and, even though she's dying right in front of him, I can't imagine him truly forgiving her for everything she's done to him and his family. I think he just felt it was the right thing for him to say at the time.[/spoiler]
Not sure if that really counts as spoilers, but just to be on the safe side...
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I've mentioned this before, but I suppose it bears saying again that practically since their inception it's been a tried and true plot twist on soaps to have enemies suddenly realize that under all that seething hate they've actually been in love with each other. However, more often than not the relationship never lasts because something eventually happens that breaks them up and 1) they become enemies again - sometimes even more bitter enemies, or 2) they decide to just remain friends. With[spoiler]Barnabas and Angelique in 1841,[/spoiler] all we got to see was the very beginning of the twist. But who knows how things would have played out had DS not ended when it did? I suspect alternative #1 because[spoiler]Barnabas and Angelique were just too fascinating on so many levels as enemies.[/spoiler]But we'll never know. But to me [spoiler]Barnabas confessing his love for Angelique never came as a surprise or the slightest bit out of character.[/spoiler]
As for Barnabas and Julia, I'm torn. I definitely enjoy them as friends (although, with friends like Barnabas, one isn't exactly on an equal playing field because he's never above resorting to grossly manipulative tactics when he's determined to get what he wants), but I also find them fascinating as enemies. DS came up with some great scenes during each phase of their relationship. And if truth be told, even when they're friends, it's not like their relationship is smooth sailing (with Barnabas, how could it ever be?).
The truth of the matter is that any relationship with Barnabas, regardless of who it is that's having it with him, is going to be complicated because he's such a complex and contradictory man. But that's also what makes him so fascinating. One may want to throttle him for any myriad of reasons, but he's never boring...
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The truth of the matter is that any relationship with Barnabas, regardless of who it is that's having it with him, is going to be complicated because he's such a complex and contradictory man. But that's also what makes him so fascinating. One may want to throttle him for any myriad of reasons, but he's never boring...
Well said MB! I agree with every word you say. [ghost_wink]
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well, mysterious benefactor, i don't know what i could possibly say. your post is just about exactly what i think too. know i'm in the minority, but i too never really found it out of character or that surprising when [spoiler]barnabas confessed his love to angelique.[/spoiler]after all they'd been through together, and the passion that had been between them, it's just the next logical step.
as to julia and barnabas - i like them as friends and as enemies, or even as frenemies, if you will. an example of this is a scene was just watching in which julia first shows up with her short vidal sassoon-inspired haircut, and barnabas is being all fake nice to her, complimenting her on her new hair style (which he clearly hates), because he feels he needs someone on his side who knows his secret. (this was right after victoria returned from 1795). it's just so beautifully done, and each of the actors play it perfectly. barnabas is such an ass-kisser in the scene, and you can tell julia sort of knows he's being insincere. this uneasy alliance between the characters is something that keeps me tuning in over and over again.
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sorry about my previous post. apparently i don't know how to use the spoiler feature.
tried to edit it so that it made a bit more sense, but i guess it took me too long to edit, because when i tried to save the changes, i got a msg. that said i wasn't allowed to edit because too much time had passed.
hope you can figure out what i was trying to say - sorry for my confusing, repetitive post. [ghost_tongue2]
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Well I am no Barney but I could never love someone who murdered my family~~but that is just me. I agree with tothe others MB that was a marvelous post!
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Barnabas might be able to [spoiler]forgive Angelique, but how could he then say that he loved her in the end.[/spoiler]What is the purpose of the war? Did he let his family be destroyed for no reason. I don't think so.
Barnabas could move forward with Julia. They had a strong friendship to build their life together. Julia had the brains to figure out his craziness most of the time.
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I personally think Barnabas "knew" Julia loved him especially after [spoiler]WILLIE (of all people, which makes one love him more) points it out to Barney when she is being attacked by Tom.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]I actually think Barnabas picked up after Eric Lang died, and julia made a comment (can't remember now, but he did pick up on it and started to blather to her and she quickly turned to go do "research"[/spoiler]
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Barnabas commented sarcastically on her attraction to him back in the vampire days when he was still semi-throttling her. It was really our first indication of it. That certainly came out of nowhere....
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Barnabas commented sarcastically on her attraction to him back in the vampire days when he was still semi-throttling her. It was really our first indication of it. That certainly came out of nowhere....
perhaps <--- [ghost_grin], julia enjoyed being throttled by Barnabas, because i think that he started her on her masochistic relationship with him. it branched out to other people throttling her and choking her.....thus her gravely voice.
where she originally starte dout as work partners with him, she grew to love him, beign sparked by his affections for sniki viki. from there it was an uphill battle for his attentions.
i still say, they should have remained a non-couple. sex and relationship problem would have complicated their holmes and watson teamwork and friendship.
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oh they could've had ONE great sex scene a la Moonlighting where Julia finally slapped HIM and then furniture got thrown, broken and trampled upon amidst clothing being torn.. and then to follow my Maddie & David comparison--it all went downhill. . . [ghost_tongue]
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oh they could've had ONE great sex scene a la Moonlighting where Julia finally slapped HIM and then furniture got thrown, broken and trampled upon amidst clothing being torn.. and then to follow my Maddie & David comparison--it all went downhill. . . [ghost_tongue]
also, as in Who's the boss, as soon as they gave in, it was down hill for the show. because these shows (and DS included) was about the SEXUAL TENSION between them, once that's over, then it's eh.
ah, well.
[ghost_grin] wow: MOONLIGHTING. now, that was a show! funny, dramatic and enjoyable. those two had good chemistry.