Thurs. Slideshow

[BuzzH]

Meant to post this yesterday and forgot.  In yesterday's slideshow there a picture from episode 152 and the description was that Liz was telling Roger that she wasn't going to stand for his treatment of David anymore.  While I applaud Aunt Liz's efforts to stand up for the boy, I have to ask, did anyone else get tired of her telling Roger how to raise his son?  I know he was all wrong and she was right, but that's a pet peeve w/me, ppl telling others how to raise their kids.  Is it really any of her business?  I don't agree w/everything my brother and his wife do regarding their kids, but I say nothing 'cause they're not my kids and it's none of my business.

I don't know, sometimes I feel like smackin' Liz through the TV!  Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

[Alondra]

It was like Roger was walking a fine line here, since he was living at Collinwood and she was the mistress of the house, and never let him forget it. There were plenty of times when she overstepped her bounds in regard to David. At first Roger neglected David badly and was always threatening to send him to some boarding or military school but no matter how wrong that decision was, it was his to make and not Liz's. She also overstepped her bounds when [spoiler]Roger was fixing to hand over custody of David to Laura, she forbid him to do that, and wouldn't let David leave. Though we're glad she stood up to him because we knew what Laura was and her plans for David, it was irritating sometimes to watch Liz act as if she were the authority over David and Roger.[/spoiler] I think she sincerely loved David and wanted the best for him but she was not his parent, Roger was.

Alondra

[Mysterious Benefactor]

It's established somewhere along the way in the early pre-Barn eps that the only reason Liz allows Roger to return to Collinwood from Augusta is because of David  - and a stipulation of his return is that Liz, not Roger, will be responsible for raising David as the Collins heir.

[BuzzH]

It's established somewhere along the way in the early pre-Barn eps that the only reason Liz allows Roger to return to Collinwood from Augusta is because of David  - and a stipulation of his return is that Liz, not Roger, will be responsible for raising David as the Collins heir.

You know, I'd forgotten about that!  Well then, he gets what he gets. 

[Midnite]

In an early ep, Liz is in the process of setting up a trust fund for David even though the family's financial situation was in dire straits at the time.  That doesn't mean squat in terms of her legal rights, but it does indicate that she was assuming some financial responsibility for her nephew's future.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Liz is in the process of setting up a trust fund for David even though the family's financial situation was in dire straits at the time.  That doesn't mean squat in terms of her legal rights

I wish I could remember which episode it is that Liz reminds Roger how/why he was allowed back at Collinwood so I could watch the scene again. But I think your're right that there aren't any legalities hinted about it. I think it's just a case of Liz taking control of David's welfare for the good of the child, and Roger having to acquiesce or get out of Collinwood without David.

I suppose we'll have to wait until someone comes across it while watching the pre-Barn eps on DVD. 

[BuzzH]

I think it's just a case of Liz taking control of David's welfare for the good of the child, and Roger having to acquiesce or get out of Collinwood without David.

Ah, but really, if they'd made that bargain--that Roger can return to Collinwood if he gives her the right to raise David w/out his interference--and he renigged, resulting in his expulsion from CW, I don't see how she could still keep David.  I can understand if he goes back on his word she has the right to kick him out of her house, but I don't see how she'd get to keep David, legally or otherwise.  Now, she could fight him for custody I suppose, but really, w/her reputation in town (weird woman who hasn't left CW in 18 years), I don't see a judge granting it to her. 

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Possibly true. But remember from Roger's POV he still has the [spoiler]hit-and-run accident hanging over his head and he's afraid that if there's any sort of investigation into his past as part of a custody battle, who knows what might get dug up.[/spoiler]He doesn't dare challenge Liz. 

[BuzzH]

Possibly true. But remember from Roger's POV he still has the [spoiler]hit-and-run accident hanging over his head and he's afraid that if there's any sort of investigation into his past as part of a custody battle, who knows what might get dug up.[/spoiler]He doesn't dare challenge Liz. 

True, true.  Gee, NEITHER one of them was really a suitable parental figure.  Good thing there was no Child Protective Services unit in Collinsport, LOL! 

[IluvBarnabas]

Elizabeth had David's best interests at heart, but I have to admit, yes there were times she did stepped over the boundaries as far as he was concerned. While Roger may not have been much of a father to David at the beginning it doesn't change the fact that he's the boy's father and ultimately should have the final say so in what was best for David.

[spoiler]Another example of this is Elizabeth's overpossessiveness of David was when Roger wanted to send David away to school because he believed David was imagining all the things he was saying about Barnabas, Elizabeth was adamant that David stay at Collinwood and indicated Roger would be sorry if he ignored her.

Though in the case of Laura, Elizabeth certainly was right about David being better off at Collinwood than with his mother, considering his mother ultimately wanted to burn him to death along with her![/spoiler]

Elizabeth had an unconditional love for David, which is great but she really should have let Roger have a bit more say so in what was in David's best interest since he was Roger's son and not hers.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Elizabeth had an unconditional love for David, which is great but she really should have let Roger have a bit more say so in what was in David's best interest since he was Roger's son and not hers.

In many ways Liz felt that, among other things, Roger's selfishness and his attitudes toward David rendered him incapable of being a good father to David. Biology doesn't necessarily guarantee a right to parenthood. And considering what we see of Roger and David's relationship and Roger's own behavior in the first year of DS, I can't say I'd disagree with Liz.

[Alondra]

If it had come down to a custody battle both Roger and Liz had things to hide, and they wouldn't have allowed it to go so far. [spoiler]Roger was ready to fork over custody to Laura when she came back so why not Liz now? And Liz was too overprotective of David and did not allow him to suffer for his misdeeds in the early storyline especially when he tried to murder his father by removing the bleeder valve from his car so he'd crash and die, and when he locked Vicki up in the west wing to starve. David isn't even punished for either deed. Liz forced Matt Morgan to take the blame for the bleeder valve incident. David would have been sent to a juvenile delinquent home if he'd been an ordinary kid and not a member of the rich Collins family.[/spoiler]

[Midnite]

I wish I could remember which episode it is that Liz reminds Roger how/why he was allowed back at Collinwood so I could watch the scene again. But I think your're right that there aren't any legalities hinted about it. I think it's just a case of Liz taking control of David's welfare for the good of the child, and Roger having to acquiesce or get out of Collinwood without David.

Is this the one you mean?:

bservations 5/23/01 - #9/10 - Carolyn Plots

[#10] I won't permit you to speak that way about David, Liz insists. You mean you won't allow me to be honest, he says Ten years ago, she says, you and I had an agreement--after the trouble with Burke, you left Collinsport and I sent you money, every month, for 10 years, and you promised not to come back--but you are back, and this is still my house and don't you forget it. You wouldn't let me forget it, he says with a bitter smile. And there's another thing you'd better remember, she says, as David listens intently, you're here for only one reason--one reason only--David--and I cannot allow you to attack him like this because of Burke Devlin or anyone else--is that clear? She opens the double doors without waiting for a reply, and leaves the room.

Here, someone wants Liz out of the way, but she still has the presence of mind to appoint someone else to protect David in her absence-- someone who can keep his best interests in mind:

Robservations 9/11/01 - #158/159 - Liz Loses All Her Marbles

[#158]  says Liz, I can't fight all of you--if I must go, remember, that you and you alone are in charge--I don't want any decisions made, not about David or anything else, until I return. Roger looks surprised at this directive. I'll try to do everything as you would do, promises Carolyn.

And here, Roger seems to indicate that he has legal custody of David but Liz holds all the marbles:

Robservations 9/17/01 - #166/167 - Sam Off the Wagon; David Home at Last

[#167]  why can't I have him now? You know the answer to that as well as I do, he says. You're his father, says Laura, Liz can't stop you legally, even if she were here she couldn't. Yes, he agrees, but she has, shall we say, other means of influence. All right, she says, I have an idea--let me have David now, without being a legal guardian--you'll still have control--then if Liz wants me to bring him back, I will--I promise you, I will. I really don't understand why you persist in this, he says, what has happened to make you so impatient?