DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk '24 I => Topic started by: Bob_the_Bartender on July 14, 2023, 11:02:14 PM
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Hey, gang,
I was watching the very early episodes of DS and Mrs. Stoddard was apologizing to Carolyn for the apparently tough time Carolyn had as a student at Collinsport High School. This got me to thinking, what was Carolyn’s life like when she was a high school kid? The other kids must have either been in awe of her or resented her wealth and privilege. I can’t decide which scenario it might have been.
Do you think Carolyn participated in many (or any) extracurricular activities at Collinsport High School? Do you think Carolyn wrote articles for the school paper? Did Carolyn participate in sports like tennis or softball at Collinsport High? Was Carolyn a cheerleader like the slightly older Maggie Evans apparently was? Did Carolyn develop a crush on Joe Haskell, when Joe was the starting quarterback for an admittedly so-so Collinsport High School football team?
I could see Carolyn being driven to and from Collinsport High School everyday by that old softie, Matthew Morgan. No doubt, the other kids thought that was “slightly” weird. And, did Carolyn ever invite the other kids up to Collinwood for a party? With Mrs. Stoddard so concerned that someone might discover that her “beloved” husband was taking a permanent “dirt nap” under the floor of one of the locked rooms in the basement of Collinwood, I kind of doubt if Carolyn was ever allowed to bring friends from school up to the great house.
And, do you think that Carolyn was ever embarrassed when the other kids would gossip about why her mother never left that spooky old mansion?
Oh, what we might have seen if they had done a flashback of the early 1960 years at Collinwood. Anyway, you know in high school yearbooks how they sometimes make predictions about members of the graduating class? Well, maybe the 1965 Collinsport High School Yearbook had these predictions:
Most Likely to Switch Careers: Maggie Evans.
Most Likely to Succeed: Chris Jennings (future architect).
Most Likely to be Incarcerated: Harry Johnson.
Most Likely to Snag a Gig on WGBH’s “This Old House”: Tom Jennings (handyman extraordinaire).
Most Likely to Drive a Top-of-the-Line BMW and STILL be Unhappy: Carolyn Stoddard.
Most Likely to Enter Local or State Politics: Susie (Hoffenmuller?) (current Collinsport Inn Waitress).
Most Likely to be Featured in “Field and Stream Magazine”: Joe Haskell.
Most Likely to Finally Find Jesus: Irwin (?) “Buzz” Hackett.
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In an interview, Nancy Barrett sums up what she thought of the character of Carolyn. She said she initially read for the part of Vicki, but found her to be dull and prissy. So when she saw the roll of Carolyn, she stated that this was the girl for her, summing her up as "having too much money and too much hair." That's how I picture Carolyn as a high school student from the class of 1965. She was both popular and resented. Being one of the "pretty girls," she hung around with them, especially those who came from families where they could afford color television sets. And there were those of the more lower class (both in looks and finances) who looked at her longing for having her status. However, there would be those who had the opposite feelings, whether resentment or jealousy. Even among the pretty girls there would be the mean girls, some amongst her supposed friends, who wouldn't miss an opportunity to take a subtle shot. In the ranks of the forlorn, especially the "Carrie" variety, there would be negative perceptions. Was Carolyn a bully, even if just an occasional one?
I wouldn't think she was much involved in extracurricular activity. Maybe helping out with stuff like prom, but that's it. Her grades were not solid A's, even though they could be, but being a "prisoner," she didn't see any point at perfect scholastic achievement. She preferred weekend nights out with her friends, even the backstabbers, expecting not to get carded at the Blue Whale or any other libation establishments. There would be an occasional party at someone's house, but never any at Collinwood, not so much because her mother protested, but because she just didn't want her dark secrets of living in that dysfunctional mansion obvious. Once she graduated (no party, again because she'd have to have it at home which her mother never left), she just fell into the life of the rich girl who had no reason to have any ambitions and spent more time at the Blue Whale, showing what all the money and hair can do.
Gerard
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Gerard,
You almost make me feel sorry for Carolyn, “almost” being the optimal word.
While Vicky had to get up every day to try to teach and discipline David Collins (Collinsport’s possible “answer” to Rhoda Penmark) and Maggie had to get up each day well before dawn in order to brew coffee and sling hash and eggs for all of those “generous” tippers (like the “slightly” parsimonious Sarah Johnson) at the Collinsport Inn Coffee Shop, Carolyn could roll out of bed, at say, 11:30 AM or so, and then decide if she wanted to watch “All My Children” at 1:00 PM or to drive into town to check out what was on sale at Brewster’s Department Store. Talk about a “tough” life! [easter_rolleyes] [easter_angry] [easter_wink]
In many ways, Carolyn Stoddard reminded me of the spoiled and entitled Meadow Soprano on “The Sopranos,” who, while pontificating on all of the alleged social injustices in life,
she just loved to shop at Bloomingdales or to spend weekends with her equally entitled friends in either
upscale Southampton, NY or in tony Spring Lake, NJ. [easter_cool]
Heck, the one and only job Carolyn ever held was at the Todds’s antique store in town and that lasted for “all” of about two weeks before Barnabas torched the place, a la Artie Bucco’s four star Italian restaurant, Vesuvio’s, in Essex County, NJ, which Tony Soprano set the place on fire in order to prevent a gangland hit in Artie’s
fine eatery.
So, when you think about it, the spoiled and pampered Carolyn Stoddard had absolutely nothing to kvetch about. [easter_angry] [easter_rolleyes] [easter_evil]
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Bob, I think that Carolyn was a spoiled rich girl, she always wanted to party or stay out late.
She was out of that old stale mansion more than any other teenager.Then Maggie whom the
Kids always scared her with the ghost of Quentin as well.
That’s just my opinion for now.
Anne [Bunny Animated]
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One of my favorite lines in the early/pre-Barn years (as there were many) was Liz saying the school kids teased Carolyn about her mother being a witch. And though I came away with the impression that it was when she was in elementary school, in a small town those 'things' stick. I also remember Carolyn telling Vicky something to the effect that she was the only friend she had and begging her not to leave Collinwood for to return to NY. And I'd guess that Carolyn's rebellious nature towards decorum lends itself to the theory that she was probably not popular, at least among her female contemporaries and mostly probably due to jealousy. Not to mention having the desirable Joe Haskell chasing after her and not them. AND probably being the most fashionable gal in school. I don't think there were any other 'rich' families in town. She could afford the latest and greatest fashions money could buy. Though I don't see her being a snob and rubbing it in anyone's face. The poor dear, lol.
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families where they could afford color television sets.
Please, owning a color TV might seem like an indication of a well to do family but that's not necessarily the case. As I've mentioned before, my family got a color TV in 1966, but both my parents were strictly blue collar. My mom worked as a sewing machine operator, and my dad worked construction as a water proofer (someone who made sure windows and such were water tight), people on whom Roger would have definitely looked down his nose. So... [easter_wink]
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Anne,
I couldn’t agree with you more about Carolyn being a spoiled, rich girl, who never wanted to leave a bar or a party at a reasonable hour, like how she would drag poor and decent Joe Haskel to the Blue Whale so that she
could dance with other guys or look for Burke Devlin specifically. I had girlfriends like her in the long-ago past,
who didn’t know when it was time to go home, the “drinking Irish,” being the worst. Ah, yes, the things you
have to experience and put up with, when you’re a young and callow fellow like Joe Haskell was in 1966.
[easter_undecided] [easter_rolleyes]
As to having a color television set back during the 1960s, I bet that Roger insisted on having the largest color console at Collinwood, so that he could see Dame Diana Rigg’s lustrous, Titian curls every week on the latest
episode of “The Avengers.” Roger probably secretly wished that the beautiful Mrs. Emma Peel would someday
relocate to Collinsport, Maine. [easter_kiss] [easter_wink]
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I'm all for owning a color TV back in the day just to watch Diana Rigg on The Avengers. I love her on that show to the point that I own The Complete Emma Peel Megaset and I'll frequently pop in a disc to watch an ep or two or three or ... whenever the mood strikes me.
I do have to say, though, that back in 1966 I was most happy to have a color TV because it meant I could watch the second season of Lost In Space in color because that's the season it switched to color...
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MB,
Yes, I agree, that Diana Rigg - Mrs. Peel Avengers DVD set is terrific!
I wish ABC had done a crossover DS/Avengers episode, where John Steed and Mrs. Emma Perl called in noted parapsychologist Professor T. Elliott Stokes to assist them in their investigations involving ghosts in “The Living Dead” Avengers episode. It would have been great fun to have seen the eminent Professor Stokes looking for clues in that creepy British cemetery along with John Steed and Emma Peel. [nods] [easter_cheesy]
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I wish ABC had done a crossover DS/Avengers episode, where John Steed and Mrs. Emma Perl called in noted parapsychologist Professor T. Elliott Stokes to assist them in their investigations involving ghosts in “The Living Dead” Avengers episode. It would have been great fun to have seen the eminent Professor Stokes looking for clues in that creepy British cemetery along with John Steed and Emma Peel.
Your mention of that ep got to wanting to see it again because I have't watched it in ages, so I did. I remembered the beginning to be quite DS-like and it is Though as much as I love the esteemed Prof. T. Eliot Stokes and as much as I would have also loved to have seen him traipsing through that cemetery (and what a great cemetery it is), I found myself picturing Dr. Peter Guthrie helping Steed and Mrs. Peel (before he was summoned to Collinwood, of course). It could have been perfect preparation for investigating the returned Mrs. Collins. Though while he would have debunked what happened involving the resurrected Duke of Benedict, he would ultimately come to discover he'd sadly bitten off much more than he could chew when it would come to Mrs. Collins...
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I wish ABC had done a crossover DS/Avengers episode, where John Steed and Mrs. Emma Perl called in noted parapsychologist Professor T. Elliott Stokes to assist them in their investigations involving ghosts in “The Living Dead” Avengers episode. It would have been great fun to have seen the eminent Professor Stokes looking for clues in that creepy British cemetery along with John Steed and Emma Peel.
Your mention of that ep got to wanting to see it again because I have't watched it in ages, so I did. I remembered the beginning to be quite DS-like and it is Though as much as I love the esteemed Prof. T. Eliot Stokes and as much as I would have also loved to have seen him traipsing through that cemetery (and what a
great cemetery it is), I found myself picturing Dr. Peter Guthrie helping Steed and Mrs. Peel (before he was
summoned to Collinwood, of course). It could have been perfect preparation for investigating the returned Mrs. Collins. Though while he would have debunked what happened involving the resurrected Duke of Benedict, he would ultimately come to discover he'd sadly bitten off much more than he could chew when it would come to Mrs. Collins...
It’s very interesting that you mention psychic investigator Dr. Peter Guthrie and his possible involvement with John Steed and Mrs. Emma Peel. I remember longtime DSF poster/cousin Joeytrom speculating here about a comment that Dr. Guthrie had made to someone (possibly Roger or Carolyn) that, along with his investigation
involving the mysterious Laura Collins, he had discovered other strange “things” in the great house of
Collinwood.
Joeytrom suggested that Dr. Guthrie had possibly come upon Quentin I’s stairway-through-time or the Parallel Time Room in the East Wing of Collinwood. Perhaps the most unsettling, if not downright terrifying, discovery for Dr. Gutherie, would have been if he had happened to look into the PT Room when the wandering ghost of
Dameon Edwards just happened to be schlepping through PT Angelique’s bedroom, wearing that extremely loud
and ugly-@ss leisure suit of his! [nods] I think that horrible sight would have very understandably
freaked out Karl Kolchak, Dr. Van Helsing and even the redoubtable Professor T. Elliott Stokes!!! [easter_shocked] [easter_shocked] [easter_shocked]
PS Writer David Hofstede, in his excellent review of the DS vhs tapes, wrote that actor John Lassell, who portrayed Dr. Peter Guthrie on DS, looked more like a mundane tax attorney than some almost ethereal psychic investigator. Sorry, Mr. Lassell, who I believe is still alive at age 95.
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My family did not get a color TV until I was out in the working world and bought one at the local Caldor's.
As for Carolyn, I don't know if she ever had sufficient reason to apply herself in school. Even though she was older, it seems that David was the one being groomed to eventually run the business. College does not seem to have an option for her. While she could have gone out on her own somewhere else, she didn't. Perhaps Carolyn realized that the Collins name and money would give a certain amount of prestige in Maine. In NYC social circles, she might not have been so unique. And there was always the possibility that there would be someone with more money.
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My family did not get a color TV until I was out in the working world and bought one at the local Caldor's.
As for Carolyn, I don't know if she ever had sufficient reason to apply herself in school. Even though she was older, it seems that David was the one being groomed to eventually run the business. College does not seem to have an option for her. While she could have gone out on her own somewhere else, she didn't. Perhaps Carolyn realized that the Collins name and money would give a certain amount of prestige in Maine. In NYC social circles, she might not have been so unique. And there was always the possibility that there would be someone with more money.
Caldor’s, now that’s a great name from the past along with K-Mart’s, Jamesway, Crazy Eddie’s and apparently, Dan Curtis’s personal favorite department store, Ohrbach’s! [easter_grin]
I wonder if Mrs. Stoddard, Carolyn, Vicky, Maggie and Barnabas shopped regularly at those great stores?
Although, I doubt if the “slightly” stuffy Roger Collins would deign to frequent those popular stores of the past. [easter_rolleyes] [easter_wink]
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I might've told this tale here, so bear with me if I did. The first in our neighborhood - I believe it was in '66, give or take a year - to get a color TV were our next door neighbors. Now, in our gathering of folk on Polish Hill, only the kind of people who lived "on da nor't side," particularly the part of Waldo Boulevard close to Lake Michigan, had the price and prestige to own one. It was simply unheard of in our community with things like Pulaski Park and Polish Phil's Bar. As my dad would say, stuff like color TV's, dishwashers, automatic clothes washers (not to mention dryers), power lawn-mowers, snow-blowers and any type of air-conditioning was for "da fancy people." So when our neighbors: grandpa; grandma; son; daughter-in-law; their daughter, and their son (my best friend at that time, also a lover of spooky movies and shows) purchased one, it was the most talked-about news until the moon landing about three years later.
There was a reason for the purchase. As expected in a neighborhood comprised primarily of people of Polish, Galician, and Czech ("Bohemian") people with last names that looked like a line on an eye chart, the vast majority were of the Catholic religion. The massive, two-steepled-with-onion-dome-tops church along with its campus of school, convent and rectory dominated half-a-block. On TV that year, it was announced that the classic film, The Song of Bernadette, would be aired for the first time. The older, pre-boomer generation all remembered seeing it in the theater 20-or-so-years earlier and recalled with pride that Jennifer Jones, who played the visionary, won the Oscar. In the mid-seventies, she would be remember for dancing with Fred Astaire before plunging over 1,000 feet to her death in The Towering Inferno. Now it was going to be on TV in all its 20th-Century-Fox glory. Even a visit by the pope wouldn't have caused such an uproar. So, just because of that occasion, the neighbors bought a set and invited everyone within a multi-block radius to come over (everyone brought something - that potluck thing, you know), and the party began. The time of the airing arrived, everyone settled down to watch this ultimate Catholic classic on color television until it started...
...and all the original viewers had forgot that it was filmed in black-and-white. Well, a good time was had by all. Being an epic, it took three hours for it to air and we kids who had to be in bed long before nine on a school night got to stay up until ten.
That set did get good use, though. We'd be invited over to watch something in color and I even got to see - are you ready for this, MB? - Lost In Space in color in the second and third seasons. The big thing to watch was Disney's Wonderful World of Color. One that stood out was Pablo and the Dancing Chihuahua. After awhile, the novelty wore off. It would be another ten years before my dad capitulated even to the demands of my mom and we became one of "da fancy people" and got our first set in 1976. The reason why (and my mom's primary insistence)? Gone With the Wind was going to air for the first time on TV.
And this time we knew it was in color.
Gerard
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... Jennifer Jones ... In the mid-seventies, she would be remember for dancing with Fred Astaire before plunging over 1,000 feet to her death in The Towering Inferno.
And to this day I still have't gotten over that happening to her character in the movie! [nodno]
... The time of the airing arrived, everyone settled down to watch this ultimate Catholic classic on color television until it started...
...and all the original viewers had forgot that it was filmed in black-and-white.
As I was reading your story I said to myself, "Wasn't that movie in B&W? Wow, do they have a surprise coming their way!" [easter_wink]
We'd be invited over to watch something in color and I even got to see - are you ready for this, MB? - Lost In Space in color in the second and third seasons.
It pays to have a best friend with a color TV! [easter_cheesy]
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I might've told this tale here, so bear with me if I did. The first in our neighborhood - I believe it was in '66, give or take a year - to get a color TV were our next door neighbors. Now, in our gathering of folk on Polish Hill, only the kind of people who lived "on da nor't side," particularly the part of Waldo Boulevard close to Lake Michigan, had the price and prestige to own one. It was simply unheard of in our community with things like Pulaski Park and Polish Phil's Bar. As my dad would say, stuff like color TV's, dishwashers, automatic clothes washers (not to mention dryers), power lawn-mowers, snow-blowers and any type of air-conditioning was for "da fancy people." So when our neighbors: grandpa; grandma; son; daughter-in-law; their daughter, and their son (my best friend at that time, also a lover of spooky movies and shows) purchased one, it was the most talked-about news until the moon landing about three years later.
There was a reason for the purchase. As expected in a neighborhood comprised primarily of people of Polish, Galician, and Czech ("Bohemian") people with last names that looked like a line on an eye chart, the vast majority were of the Catholic religion. The massive, two-steepled-with-onion-dome-tops church along with its
campus of school, convent and rectory dominated half-a-block. On TV that year, it was announced that the
classic film, The Song of Bernadette, would be aired for the first time. The older, pre-boomer generation
all remembered seeing it in the theater 20-or-so-years earlier and recalled with pride that Jennifer Jones, who
played the visionary, won the Oscar. In the mid-seventies, she would be remember for dancing with Fred
Astaire before plunging over 1,000 feet to her death in The Towering Inferno. Now it was going to be on
TV in all its 20th-Century-Fox glory. Even a visit by the pope wouldn't have caused such an uproar. So, just
because of that occasion, the neighbors bought a set and invited everyone within a multi-block radius to come
over (everyone brought something - that potluck thing, you know), and the party began. The time of the airing
arrived, everyone settled down to watch this ultimate Catholic classic on color television until it started...
...and all the original viewers had forgot that it was filmed in black-and-white. Well, a good time was had by all. Being an epic, it took three hours for it to air and we kids who had to be in bed long before nine on a school
night got to stay up until ten.
That set did get good use, though. We'd be invited over to watch something in color and I even got to see - are you ready for this, MB? - Lost In Space in color in the second and third seasons. The big thing to watch
was Disney's Wonderful World of Color. One that stood out was Pablo and the Dancing Chihuahua.
After awhile, the novelty wore off. It would be another ten years before my dad capitulated even to the
demands of my mom and we became one of "da fancy people" and got our first set in 1976. The reason why
(and my mom's primary insistence)? Gone With the Wind was going to air for the first time on TV.
And this time we knew it was in color.
Gerard
Oh, Gerard, I don’t know where to start; what a wonderful remembrance of life during the halcyon days of the long-ago 1960s!
I loved your description of the town you grew up in in Wisconsin. I went to high school in Bayonne, NJ, which has a large Polish-American community. Many of my classmates at Marist High School had surnames like Januska, Pietrowski, Polakowski, Radomski and Kowalski (who claimed that the world-renowned wrestling champion, “Killer” Kowalski, was his uncle!). And, Bayonne also had Kosakowski’s Corral, possibly the only Polish-American country-western bar/tavern, east of Chicago, Illinois.
I got a big kick out of your description of people’s surnames that looked like a line on an eye chart. In fact, there was a major league catcher for the San Diego Padres named Doug Gwosdz, whose baseball nickname was, quite understandably, “Eye-Chart”!
Perhaps you’re familiar with Jean Shepherd, the late great humorist, writer, radio host and raconteur? Mr. Shepherd grew up in a steel mill town in Indiana on Lake Michigan, not far from Chicago. In one of his short stories/remembrances, he wrote about a Polish-American family and their beautiful teenaged daughter who moved right next door to his family’s house.
To say that Jean Shepherd was smitten with this lovely young girl would be an understatement; he was struck by the thunderbolt” when he first met her! [easter_kiss] His awkward, teenaged pursuit of her is chronicled in Mr. Shepherd’s amusing and bittersweet short story, “The Star-crossed Romance of Josephine Gosnowski.”
As a young kid during the 1960s, I always enjoyed listening to Jean Shepherd on WOR-710 AM in New York City every week night at 10:00 PM. Mr. Shepherd, with his keen and acerbic wit, was an absolutely wonderful
storyteller. The late Raineypark and I would often exchange recollections of listening to Mr. Shepherd on the radio way back then. I suppose Jean Shepherd is best known for the 1983 film comedy based on his short story, “A Christmas Story,” which just had a sequel made, starring Peter Billingsley, the original “Ralphie” in the first
film.
I loved your recollection of everyone getting psyched-up to see the wonderful Jennifer Jones in “The Song of Bernadette.” What a bummer to find out that that classic film had been filmed in black and white! Heck, I think I was into my twenties, before I found out that “The Wizard of Oz” had been filmed in both color and black and white after all those years of watching that film classic on a black and white tv! [easter_shocked]
Regarding “The Song of Bernadette,” wasn’t the late, great Vincent Price terrific in it as Vital Dutour, the cynical and off-putting imperial prosecutor, who gives poor Bernadette such a hard time? Perhaps that role helped to give Mr. Price the opportunity to later become such an American horror film icon? And, wouldn’t the lovely and breathtakingly beautiful Jennifer Jones have been a wonderful Victoria Winters on “Dark Shadows”?
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I think Carolyn was both spoiled and able to be pitied.
She might have been both outcast and top of the heap at school with no or few true friends.
Toying with men out of boredom and feeling like close relationships weren’t possible so it didn’t matter what she did.
That might explain why Jeb didn’t creep her out. His desire for only her might’ve come across as loyalty that a real relationship could be built on.
Great topic Bob ^_^
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I don’t have any black and white to color stories, but our color TV didn’t have cable for years and the channel had to be changed by hand until years later we got a VCR (I think it it could work that way).
That old tv worked for years even after it got replaced.
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McTrooper,
That’s a very interesting and insightful point you made about Carolyn’s burgeoning romance with the bumptious and cocky Jeb Hawkes. I couldn’t see either Vicky or Maggie showing any interest in the self-absorbed Leviathan leader. But, then again, I was surprised that Maggie fell for the warlock, Nicholas Blair. With his urbane manners, trademark three-piece gray suit and his all-too-easy and unctuous smile, Nicholas Blair always impressed me as being an insincere “fancy dancer” (to borrow a phrase from the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens in his song, “Hard Headed Woman”). Maggie just seemed to be too practical and well-grounded to fall for an oily character like Nicholas Blair.
If Sam Evans had not died after losing his sight (way to go, Barnabas!)
and suffering that, ultimately, fatal shot to the head from Adam (once again, “thank you, very much,”
Barnabas), I don’t think that Sam would have liked the flashy Nicholas Blair at all and would have advised his beloved daughter to ditch the smarmy creep, resulting in Nicholas dispatching the vampire, Tom Jennings, to “take care” of Sam like he tried to “take care” of Vicky after Vicky objected to Nicholas marrying Maggie.
I like to think that Maggie and Joe Haskell eventually reunited after several years and that they married and had a long and very happy life together, something, admittedly, rarely seen on “Dark Shadows.” But, I’m a hopeless romantic, just like Sarah Johnson and Matthew Morgan.
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I’ve often thought Carolyn’s life wasn’t super happy even though she’s rich, but only because of this discussion did I think of the Jeb Hawkes part.
It helps me to excuse Carolyn’s acceptance of Jeb.
After all he doesn’t come across as a dashing photographer adventure.
Yeah Maggie and Nicholas was an odd couple. I understand Nicholas‘s fascination, but I can’t picture Maggie being interested without magical persuasion.
I enjoyed Maggie and Joe and it would have been nice even if it was just dialogue to give those characters a reunion.
Maybe Elisabeth could have said they’d be at the (whatever the event was) together to see Rodger’s speech. It wouldn’t have cost Dan any money or require the actors to return.
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Carolyn always had terrible luck in the romance department. And it didn't really matter if the men were basically good guys like Tony Peterson and Chris Jennings or those with a dark side like Burke Devlin and Jeb Hawkes. In fact, a dark side seemed to attract her more! But my main problem with her relationship with Jeb is that she was not only frequently confronted with the fact that Jeb was hardly a good guy but that he had in fact killed her father. She was repeatedly confronted with the latter but she always chose to ignore it and that was way out of character for Carolyn.
As for Maggie and Joe, sure, it would have been nice if they'd gotten back together. But we have to remember that so far as Maggie knows, Joe cheated on her and for most women that is unforgivable. And it's not like she didn't try to get Joe to explain his behavior - but of course he was incapable of doing so - so in the end Maggie felt she had no choice but to accept Joe wasn't the guy for her. Now, could she have eventually forgiven his "cheating" without an explanation for why he had? Who knows? But that whole situation in their relationship seems like it might have been an obstacle to them ever getting back together and certainly getting back to the place they'd been before Angelique ruined everything for them. Their situation is quite tragic - but at its heart DS is a Gothic story - and very rarely in Gothic stories does true romance work out in the end...
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The dream sequence that Carolyn had shortly before the wedding shows that at least subconsciously she does know that Jeb killed her father. While she never acted on this knowledge, it could come to the surface at a later time.
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Ironically, didn't Joe and Maggie both end up at Wyndcliffe, the hoo-hoo hotel where everyone traumatized by things that go bump in the night in the proximity of Collinwood were shipped off to? Was Joe still there, blabbering about wolves, when Maggie arrived blabbering about bats? If they did reunite over a bowl of tapioca pudding (with their meds crushed inside), maybe their past romance could've been rekindled. Of course, they'd end up looking like Herman and Lilly or Gomez and Morticia. Since Maggie had holidayed there once before, she could fill Joe in on what to know, like who does what for cigarettes.
Gerard
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Great points everyone is making about the interpersonal relationships of the characters on DS! I believe that author Dale Clark did have Maggie and Joe reuniting in his excellent series of DS novels. (Dale also had Maggie finally remembering all that Barnabas had done to her right after he showed up unexpectedly in town, but that’s for another discussion.)
The late Joel Crothers was outstanding in his heartbreaking portrayal of Joe Haskell, during his final months on DS. To say that Joe’s life was a series of one awful experience right after the other would be an understatement; first, Joe gets severely manhandled by the brutish Adam, necessitating a prolonged stay in the hospital, then Joe makes the unfortunate mistake of making Angelique’s “acquaintance” in the House-by-the-Sea, which results in Joe eventually losing his job at the cannery, the love of his fiancée and finally his own self-respect, resulting in both a failed (thankfully) suicide attempt and a failed strangling of Barnabas, Joe’s “rival” for Angelique’s “affection/attention.”
Finally, after being manhandled by his cousin, Chris Jennings (whom Joe suspected of hiding some particularly horrible secret) and the knowledge (from personal experience) of what had really happened to Joe’s other cousin, Tom Jennings, caused Joe to finally go “round-the_bend” (as they say in England) and, almost pathetically, for Joe to attempt to abduct his young cousin, Amy Jennings, from Amy’s two older and “evil” brothers. A sad end for one of DS’s most decent and likable characters.
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Great point about Mysterious Benefactor I forgot about her knowing what Jeb did and also about Maggie.
Lol Gerard ^_^
“ . . . reunite over a bowl of tapioca pudding . . .” The whole picture you painted really makes me smile.
Bob_the_Bartender
It really was quite a sad series of experiences for Joe I’d even include dating Carolyn in that progression of sad experiences. His relationship with Maggie falling apart was a bit hard to watch.
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I’ve often thought Carolyn’s life wasn’t super happy even though she’s rich, but only because of this discussion did I think of the Jeb Hawkes part.
It helps me to excuse Carolyn’s acceptance of Jeb.
After all he doesn’t come across as a dashing photographer adventure.
Yeah Maggie and Nicholas was an odd couple. I understand Nicholas‘s fascination, but I can’t picture Maggie being interested without magical persuasion.
I enjoyed Maggie and Joe and it would have been nice even if it was just dialogue to give those characters a
reunion.
Maybe Elisabeth could have said they’d be at the (whatever the event was) together to see Rodger’s speech. It wouldn’t have cost Dan any money or require the actors to return.
McTrooper,
That would have been great if Dan Curtis and the DS writers had Elizabeth telling Barnabas, Julia and Professor Stokes that Joe and Maggie Haskell would be in attendance for Roger’s speech at the opening of the Collinsport Historical Society, along with Carolyn, David and Quentin.
Julia could than remark how happy she was that both Maggie and Joe had recovered fully during their time at Windcliff and how delighted Julia was that the young couple had decided to marry, thus giving us all a satisfying conclusion to that part of the DS storyline.
Dan Curtis and the DS writers did provide a similar type of explanation on the show, when Quentin remarked to Julia that he was sorry to see Chris Jennings, Chris’s fiancee Sabrina Stuart and Chris’s younger sister, Amy leave Collinsport suddenly and unexpectedly while Julia and Barnabas were in Parallel Time and also in 1995. (Although, we never found out if the unfailingly “congenial” Ned Stuart had tagged along with his sister, Sabrina, and her new family.) [easter_rolleyes] [easter_wink]
And, as you point out, it wouldn’t have cost the frugally-minded Dan Curtis a dime to let us know that things had turned out very well for Maggie and Joe.