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Messages - madscntst

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196
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 30, 2012, 10:53:03 PM »
This is an interesting discussion, and I thank everyone for pitching in their thoughts.  A few more of my own:

1) Regarding Josette and Vicki- in my (rather long [ghost_wink] ) post from yesterday I didn't meant to try to claim that Josette wasn't involved in Vicki's actions.  But rather, what I was trying to say was that I don't feel that Vicki was being possessed or put under a spell by Josette, and that I felt that she was in control of her own actions.  I think that the flashbacks were meant to show that Vicki (or I guess I should say Maggie) always felt close to Josette- even as a child, she considered her as a companion rather than an entity that she was afraid of.  Even when Maggie was locked up, Josette was her only companion.  I think that she always felt this strong connection to Josette, even if she didn't always fully understand why, until the end when I think it must've all come together for her and she realized/remembered that she was Josette.  So sure, I think that Josette led her, and even demonstrated how to fall a couple of times, but I still feel that the decision was Vicki's to make.  I do agree that this could've all been conveyed better in the film, and perhaps I am making these leaps because of my past familiarity with the characters.

2) I wish that Laura's character would've been brought out slightly more in the film, but on the second viewing I did realize that they refer to her a lot more than I caught onto on the first viewing.  There were the things I mentioned yesterday- that it is Laura who leads David to find Barnabas in his coffin, and it is Laura who tells David to tell Barnabas where Vicki is.  But there is also David in the sheet, multiple mentions at the beginning to both Vicki and Barnabas that David thinks he sees/talks to his mother, and there is the conversation at the shore between Barnabas and Vicki.  So there is a lot there already.  I might be in the minority here, but I don't think that I would've wanted to see David and Laura chatting.  I'd rather that be kept a mystery, and not really know if David is really talking to her or if he's just imagining it all.

3) Regarding Julia's "treatment" of Barnabas, I second MB's thoughts on this.  Julia's first reaction to finding out that Barnabas is a vampire is anger- she can't believe that Liz would endanger the family by letting a vampire stay under their roof.  Liz vouches for him, but more importantly she plants the seed that he could be an interesting case for her to study.  I don't think that really occurred to her until Liz suggested it, but once she did, Julia started to realize the potential of what might be in it for her.  Once she and Barnabas had their conversation about the curse of vampirism vs. aging and dying, I think she was sold on the idea of totally trying to use him to her own purposes (immortality and youth).  I don't think she ever really cared that much about curing him, per se.  Personally, I can accept that this is a different Julia than the one we know, and as much as I loved the OS Julia and her quest to cure Barnabas, I'm okay with this being a different take.  Oh, and as for whether her subplot should've even been in the film at all, I'm okay with it and don't feel it's out of place.  It serves to show (even if too briefly) that Barnabas had a hope of a "monster becoming a man", and having that reduplicated when he wants to be with Vicki (when he storms into the lab and discovers her treating herself, he is coming in to beg her to work harder to cure him).  It also shows him being used yet again, and losing hope in his situation.

4) About Barnabas walking around in the day- in this incarnation, Barnabas was able to be outdoors as long as his skin wasn't directly exposed to sunlight, and I don't think that Julia's treatments (or lack thereof) had any bearing on that.  I don't have a problem with him being able to walk outside during the day- even Dracula could walk outside during the day, as I recall, but he was just weakened.  But I really wish they had added even a sentence or two about this, just to make it make more sense.  In one of the interviews with Johnny that I read, he mentioned that he liked the idea of having to use heavy sunblock.  This agrees with all the theories that popped up when we saw the first photos from the filming, and it explains why his makeup looked even more exaggerated outdoors than indoors.  But there was never any mention of it in the film, and I wonder if something got edited out.  They could've just said that just like the supposed allergy to silver, he had an allergy to sunlight too.  I mean, how do they explain to the family that Willie needs to stand there holding an umbrella over Barnabas?  I am just guessing that the audience is supposed to assume that this all happened offscreen.  In some ways, I think it's better not to spell out every single detail, because then it makes a film tedious if it keeps stating the obvious too many times.  But there is a balance, and they probably could've just clarified this a bit better- like I said, even a sentence or two might've done the trick.

Sorry, I've gotten long-winded again!  [ghost_wink]

197
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 30, 2012, 03:54:43 AM »

Who drove Vicki to Widows Hill at the end? I don't think it was Angelique because uniting Barnabas with Josette would have been the last thing she would do. But what if Josette had led Vicki there? She had led Vicki places before. The jump from the hill may have been what was needed to motivate Barnabas to save Vicki the only way he can.

I don't think that Angelique drove her there.  If she had, I think that Vicki would've jumped long before.  Vicki ran off (in fear?) when she saw Barnabas burning, but then a LOT of time passed after that.  Barnabas went to Angelique to give an ultimatum to make him human again, and she trapped him in the coffin.  20 minutes passed, and Laura instructed David to find the coffin.  Meanwhile, the cannery was burning to a crisp.  They all eventually went back to the house, along with half the town, and had a huge knock-down, drag-out with Angelique.  And THEN Barnabas went off to find Vicki heading toward Widow's Hill.  The timing just doesn't fit, and if Angelique was destroyed by then, then I wouldn't think that any control over Vicki would still hold true.

But I don't really think that Josette was possessing her, either.  On my second viewing, I noticed that Vicki was very lucid at the end.  She was looking over Widow's Hill, but I don't think that she was preparing to jump just yet.  Barnabas came up to her and they embraced.  But then Barnabas says something like he thought he'd lost her, and she told him that he already had, because she lives in the light and she will grow old and die, and he will not.  She sounded very sane, calm, and logical.  I don't remember the exact exchange but I think she was challenging him, because he said something like he'd never do that (make her like him).  I think that Vicki knew full well what she was doing when she jumped, and I don't think she was under anyone's spell.  I think that sometime between seeing Barnabas burning and that point, she had come to understand what Barnabas was, and that there was only one way to be with him, and the only way he would change her was if her death were the only other choice. 

Now, how does Josette fit into all of this?  Well, I think that Josette may have guided her, and I think that in her heart she realized that she essentially *was* Josette.  But I don't think that it was possession in the sense that she was losing her own self, but just that she was just realizing that Josette was a part of her all along, and that made all the ghostly visits she had since childhood and her feeling that she belonged in Collinsport all make sense to her.  So maybe I'm just an optimist, but that was kinda how I saw it on my first viewing, and that feeling was only enforced seeing it again.  Now, I'm not entirely sure that the film conveyed this perfectly-- I do feel as if some scenes were missing, and that there are gaps we have to fill in.  How does she realize that he's immortal/a vampire, really??  All she knows is that he starts to burn in the sunlight.  What is she doing during the time when the rest of the family is battling Angelique (and by the way, this is when he's displaying his powers, but she doesn't witness any of that)?  If Josette speaking and explaining things to her offscreen, just as Laura speaks to David offscreen?  (On the second viewing, I realized that Laura does a lot more than I first thought- she tells David where Barnabas is in the Collins mausoleum, and she tells David to tell Barnabas where to find Vicki).  So I do feel like I have to just roll with it a little bit.  But I kind of like the way I see the story playing out.

Your mileage may vary, of course ;)

198
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 29, 2012, 08:31:37 PM »
The DS actuals are in on boxoffice.com

http://www.boxoffice.com/statistics/bo_numbers/actual_extended_estimate/2012-05-28

  It makes it look like DS is in 4th place for the 4 day weekend, but that is because The Dictator is not yet on the list- once it's added, I'm sure that it will cut ahead and DS will be in 5th.  But it did beat Chernobyl Diaries!  The actual for the 4 day was a bit better than the estimate, at $9,439,246 (the estimate was $9,405,000), bringing the domestic total to $64,922,142.

199
Current Talk '12 I / Re: 1969 DS-themed 45 rpm "The Curse Goes On"
« on: May 29, 2012, 08:27:28 PM »
That was... interesting :)  For some reason, I was disappointed when the tune didn't turn out to be Sonny & Cher's The Beat Goes On- does that make me a bad person?   [ghost_wink]

200
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 29, 2012, 01:00:04 PM »
When I went to see DS this weekend, at a mid-afternoon showing, it was a smaller theater but was surprisingly packed- I'd say about 75%.  This local theater is rarely so full at afternoon weekend shows, so this was a great sign.  I'd say the audience was more into the movie than at the first showing I saw, but maybe that was because the theater was fuller.  People laughed at the right moments and nobody seemed to react badly to the comedy, and people were engrossed through the movie.  A lot of people were staying through the credits, which they didn't do the first time I saw it- maybe they thought there would be an "easter egg" scene at the end.  All in all, the reaction seemed better than it did when I saw it opening weekend.  Hmm!

201
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 27, 2012, 06:00:18 AM »
there are still 2 other IMAX theaters in the general DC area that still have DS airing(s), so I may shoot for a 6 p.m. showing at one of them. 

I had to mention a funny thing- I was watching a Dateline-style program on our local news station earlier, and during the hour they had not one, but two commercials for DS being at the 2 IMAX theaters I just mentioned this afternoon!  So at least in this area, they are still advertising DS and specifically promoting the area IMAX screens to see it on  [ghost_smiley]

202
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 26, 2012, 09:38:25 PM »
With today's estimate of just over $2M, DS's unadjusted box office (~$57.5M) has now surpassed 2 more of Johnny's films: Once Upon A Time In Mexico and Edward Scissorhands.  Up next:  another ~$10M needed to reach The Tourist  [ghost_smiley]  The numbers don't look as good if you look at figures adjusted for inflation, how ever they calculate that.  But I've also heard from some film buff forums that it's not really fair to do that, either, because movie attendance in general has been on the decline for years, since we now have so many more choices available to us nowadays (DVDs coming out so much more quickly, cable, on demand, streaming, etc. etc.). So even though there are breakouts like The Avengers, it's tough for a typical box office of today to compare with that of years ago.

I *still* haven't made it for my 2nd viewing, but it looks like tomorrow is going to be the day.  It has been taken away from IMAX at the theater near me, but there are still 2 other IMAX theaters in the general DC area that still have DS airing(s), so I may shoot for a 6 p.m. showing at one of them.  Otherwise the theater near me (non-IMAX) still has plenty of showings.

203
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 24, 2012, 10:04:54 PM »
Thanks MB for the Wed. numbers- I saw the amount for DS on boxoffice.com a little earlier, before numbers were available for most of the films, and I thought, ugh, that looks like a big drop.  But on your link, compared with most films, the drop (-19.3%) is the same as for The Avengers and much better than the drops for Battleship, The Dictator or What To Expect When You're Expecting (all -24% or more)!  I wonder why yesterday was such a bad day for the movies??  Maybe everyone is just waiting until the long weekend to relax  [ghost_huh]  At any rate, DS has now surpassed Corpse Bride's box office domestically   [ghost_smiley]

Thanks KMR for your thoughtful remarks regarding your second viewing!  I still need to go for my 2nd time (I hope to get at least 3 viewings in while it's still in theaters) but when I think about the movie, the Carolyn reveal seems like the most unnecessary and incongruous part of the film to me.  Not that I mind her being a werewolf, really, but as KMR (and others) have said, if they were going to bother going that route, they should've brought it out more during the film and not just had a couple of hints that we might only notice later ("Oh, there was a full moon, so she must be a werewolf!")  Plus, her identity as a werewolf isn't important to the story other than to add to the list of family secrets- she is still ineffective against Angelique, and she doesn't really DO anything except transform, and it seems like just an excuse to show some cool effects.  Even as a werewolf, she's pretty much still a victim, so why transform her at all?  I'm still not minding the other plot points that I recollect, so it'll be interesting to see how I feel when I see it again.

204
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 23, 2012, 08:10:12 PM »
boxoffice.com is reporting the Tuesday box office numbers.  Like last week, the number is slightly up on Tuesday:  $1,303,235, for a domestic total of $53,280,153.  DS has now officially overtaken Depp's films Finding Neverland, Sweeney Todd and Blow, and has only ~$70,000 more to go to overtake Corpse Bride.

205
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 22, 2012, 01:45:54 AM »
To me, I don't feel as if much from the montage was meant to be separate scenes.  Or maybe that is just my own opinion, that if they really had full scenes of such clips, the film would be too literal and too bogged down.  I felt that that part was perfect the way it was, seeing Barnabas adjust to the time and to the family.

However, I do sense that there was, or should've been, slightly more to the Julia/Barnabas and David/Barnabas relationships.  And Roger was almost a throw-away character-- Jonny Lee was great with what he was given, but what he was given wasn't much, unfortunately.

My sense of Vicki at the end, based on only one viewing, was that Vicki was "herself" by the end, and she was jumping because she knew she couldn't be with Barnabas as is, and she was relying on him to change her so they could be together.  I'm not sure when Josette was "there"- whether she was there yet when Vicki was standing on the cliff or only later.  But I didn't take it as a possession; simply an insight or understanding that they were one and the same (reincarnation; integration, what have you).  It's a bit of semantics, maybe, but I guess I don't like the idea of Josette using or manipulating Vicki and so I choose not to interpret it that way, at least on only one viewing.  I may change my mind when I watch again.

206
Oh my, Traskbuzz would probably make my brain explode, lol  [ghost_grin]  I'm not good at thinking of hybrids/combos, but I would love to see both Trask and Prof. Stokes represented in some fashion in a sequel.  Trask especially- he was such a delicious adversary.  In Stokes' case, I'm not sure how much it was that I was a fan of the character per se because to be honest, I was just always in awe of Thayer David.  The funny thing is, I could totally see Thayer wearing a hot pink boa!

207
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 21, 2012, 04:08:52 PM »
By the way, since Chloe Moretz has been such a hot commodity recently, I was curious to see how her domestic box offices have been stacking up.  Her films with the biggest box offices so far, from Box Office Mojo:

0. Bolt (voice) $114M (they don't count this one in her averages because maybe her role was too small)
1. Hugo $73.9M
2. Big Momma's House 2 $70.2M (ha, I didn't know she was in this!)
3. The Amityville Horror (2005) $65.2M
4. Diary of a Wimpy Kid $64M
5. Dark Shadows $50.9M
6. Kick-Ass $48.1M
7. (500) Days of Summer $32.4M
8. The Eye $31.4M
9. Let Me In $12.1M

So DS has already gone past both Kick-Ass and (500) Days of Summer, both of which I thought were moderate hits, and it's totally decimated Let Me In (which I thought was great btw and I'm sorry to see that its box office was so low). 

So this is just another perspective on where DS fits in.  Note that I don't think it's worth it to try this for Helena, because she was in all the Harry Potter movies, and the the other cast members aren't really known for being in a lot of blockbusters.

Edited to add- and worldwide, DS is in 3rd place for Chloe, and very soon to catch Big Momma's House 2.  Hugo is at $182.6M, though.

208
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 21, 2012, 03:59:21 PM »
Hi all, catching up after being out of town for a few days (I popped in a couple of times but didn't really have time to contribute).  I'm glad to see that the film is doing well overseas.  Of course, it can't be anywhere in the same universe as The Avengers, but it was never going to be.

Among Johnny's movies, the domestic box office has just surpassed that of Secret Window (domestic lifetime gross of $48M; realize that I am not adjusting for inflation), and will catch Finding Neverland ($51.7M) in the next couple of days, and Sweeney Todd ($52.9), Blow ($53.0), and Corpse Bride ($53.4) probably by the weekend or so.  I also think that even though The Avengers will be the film to profit the most from Memorial Day Weekend, I do think that the holiday will be good for all movies, hopefully including DS!  I hope to see it my 2nd time over the weekend, and by the way I'm happy to see that more folks than not seem to have enjoyed it better the second time around  [ghost_smiley]

209
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 17, 2012, 02:01:46 AM »
Johnny is also known for giving the whole crew some kind of gift to commemorate the show- usually a t-shirt or jacket but I think there have been some others (I don't really keep track, because it's depressing that the mere mortals can't get them easily ;D  )  But sometimes some end up on eBay, usually for $$$$$ if they're the real deal. 

Besides The Dictator opening, many films do better on Tuesdays than Mondays because a lot of theaters offer Tuesday discounts or free popcorn or something.  I didn't know that until I started hanging out at the old Box Office Mojo discussion board, but now when I see a good Tuesday I'm happy but I just keep in mind that Tuesdays are usually better.  I'm HOPING that the audience for The Dictator will be different than the DS audience, and that the effect of it opening will be minimal, but I guess we'll see.

210
Oh, I'm so happy for Jonny.  I'm most familiar with him as a recurring guest star on Dexter- I think it was the year before last.   He was a motivational speaker.  The season was a sharp decline in quality from Dexter's best seasons, but he himself was great, and many were talking about the possibility of an Emmy nomination.  It's great that he's getting a CBS series!

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