DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '09 I => Topic started by: Watching Project on January 15, 2009, 07:18:20 PM
-
Robservations #709
-
This episode is a lot of fun, even though I have issues with it. The most obvious problem, to me, is Quentin's fear of what seems to be Edith's spirit looking for her will. It is customary to make the bad guy in the story a coward - but I just don't believe that Quentin is a coward. I have no problem with David Selby's portrayal of Quentin's fear, but it doesn't ring true to what I think I know about the character.
The other problem is with Edith's apparent search for her will. I like it, but I don't believe it. Something is missing from it - some indication to the audience that yes, this is Edith - maybe something spooky happening in the study with Edith's body when nobody but the audience is there to see it. Alternatively, Barnabas might have done some hocus-pocus to bring Edith back - but shouldn't we have seen that? The most likely explanation to me is that Magda, having told Quentin where the will is, did some gypsy magic - but we didn't see that, either. So I'm left with my disbelief in the midst of my enjoyment. Never mind, the enjoyment is still very much there.
Didn't Beth say she was seeing a gentleman? I don't think Dirk qualifies.
Quentin said that he never liked playing with Judith when they were kids because she was a scaredy-cat. That suggests that they were pretty close in age, so I take that as evidence that the sibling order was Edward, Judith, Quentin, Carl.
-
If anything, I think Quentin is scared that his scheme to grab the Collins fortune might go wrong somehow. After all, Barnabas just accused him of stealing the will. Quentin is unnerved that this cousin he knows absolutely nothing about somehow knows or at least suspects what he has done.
I have a hard time buying Quentin's fear of anything supernatural myself, considering that he and Evan Hanley have indulged in dabbling in the black arts.
Yes, I quite agree that Dirk doesn't strike me as being the gentleman type. I think Beth overexaggerated on that point.
-
Didn't Beth say she was seeing a gentleman? I don't think Dirk qualifies.
[snow_laugh]
-
When Beth said a while back that she was seeing her gentleman friend in town, wasn't that a lie told to cover her weekly visit to Mrs. Fillmore with the Collins cash and a care package? If she wanted to fool around with Dirk <gag!>, she wouldn't have to go to the village to do it. It was, as Quentin called it, "Backstairs excitement" (and its spinoff series, "Upstairs, Downstairs" ;)).
I've been watching Beth carefully (because I'm easily entertained ::)) for signs she was falling for Quentin-- that she did stay on because he might return, or that she was thrilled when he did or she wanted more from him-- you get the picture, but I noticed none of that... til now. We see a lot of sexual tension in this ep. There's no turning back now, girlfriend!
As for Quentin acting like a fraidy cat when he was convinced he was being haunted by a vengeful spirit, I think that if someone goes so far as to dabble in the Black Arts, then it's a given that they'd believe that death is not the end, that the veil between this and the spirit world can be lifted, and that dark nonhuman entities do exist. So I do feel his fear was true to character. JMO
Switching to Barnabas, I thought it odd that he was convinced Edith wouldn't rest in peace. I mean, we've all heard the stories about ghosts sticking around because of unfinished business, but Barnabas seemed darn sure it was going to happen even before there were any signs of a haunting. Which I guess is why Lydia and Robin wondered if he had anything to do with it. I agree with Lydia that the writing is just not good here.
A scene that drove me nuts: Barnabas wasted no time in starting up a conversation with Rachel about her resemblance to Josette's portrait (cuz if a pickup line works once, why not try it again?). Anyway, all it took was her asking if Josette was a Collins for him to start telling her story, including how she ended up marrying his ancestor's uncle, which led to Barnabas dueling with Jeremiah and killing him. Then Rachel says, "I tend to only see the things that I want to see and I ignore all of the unpleasant things in life." Well, apparently she's not the only one, because this entire conversation takes place right in front of Jeremiah's portrait, and at one point I'm sure Rachel is even brushing up against it, yet this fact is never mentioned by Barnabas. Hello, conversation about the past and portraits and Jeremiah, and you are practically breathing on a painting of him but let's pretend you're not. Augh!
The Petofi box is already gone from the mantel! And in its place, a forgettable smaller box.
-
judith and quentin playing as children? [snow_huh]
she's about thirty years older than him.
i thought the whole point of the judith character was that she was an embittered "old maid".
the indeterminate age difference between siblings on this show... [snow_silly]
-
Maybe the characters were only about 12 years apart or so?
-
Quentin said that he never liked playing with Judith when they were kids because she was a scaredy-cat.
judith and quentin playing as children? [snow_huh]
What Quentin says is, "I always hated playing with you." But that's not to say it wasn't already mentioned that Judith and Quentin were children together-- Quentin said it while making fun of her a few eps ago, something like "just like when we were children." And if I'm not mistaken, all the sibs mention their being children together at one time or another in the storyline, including Carl.
she's about thirty years older than him.
i thought the whole point of the judith character was that she was an embittered "old maid".
IIRC, the only age provided for any of them is Quentin, who was born in 1870, making Quentin around 27 (coincidentally [??], Selby had just turned 28, not that I know his birthday by heart or anything). So I think we're meant to forget the other actors' real ages and just go with what we're told in 1897. You also have to toss out that Louis Edmonds is more than 10 years younger than Joan Bennett since Edward is said to be older than Judith. I'm not even sure his son is supposed to be the same age as David.
Does anyone know what was considered an "old maid" in Victorian times?
-
Could be 35, maybe even 30. Just guessing. 45 definitely.
-
Actors often play roles that are not around their real ages. I remember seeing an actress playing Juliet in an old movie and she was at least fourty. I wonder if they were purpously making it unclear about Edith's ghost or it was an accident. It was somewhat similar to Dave Woodard's ghost was it really He or was it Barnabas?
-
This was the first appearance of Dirk Wilkins. [milestone] Also, the first time we saw Quentin's room in 1897. [milestone]
I agree with Lydia. I got the feeling that Beth just made up the "gentleman friend" to Quentin to explain why she was going into town. It's surprising to me that Dirk was so possessive of Beth. Sounds like a bit of unrequited love there. [love9] But Beth seemed to be "undecided" about both Dirk and Quentin. I'm sure she enjoyed getting the attention, especially from Quentin. [snow_wink]
I love Quentin's room! [snow_cheesy] It was so bright, colorful and elegant. [color] It's hard to believe that it's the same room that appeared in 1969. Quentin's room in 1969 was dark and dingy. [snow_undecided]
I also wonder whether it was really Edith who was haunting Quentin, or if Barnabas caused it, especially since Barnabas was the one who mentioned Edith's "restless spirit" to Quentin. [snow_huh]
----- Sally -----
[snow_bigglass] [hippy2]
-
I love Quentin's room! [snow_cheesy] It was so bright, colorful and elegant. [color] It's hard to believe that it's the same room that appeared in 1969. Quentin's room in 1969 was dark and dingy. [snow_undecided]
The tried and true MO that they used with the Old House. Dark and dingy would be an understatement for how the Old House looked when we first saw it. [snow_wow] Then we saw how bright, colorful and elegant it originally appeared. And it stayed that way throughout the rest of the series - the same as Quentin's room will. [snow_wink] (I wonder if Barnabas lent Willie out to restore Quentin's room or if Willie took it upon himself as something to keep him busy while Barn was in 1970PT? Somehow I just can't picture Quentin having done it himself. [snow_cheesy] Yet another topic for fanfic that might even explain how Willie was able to transform the Old House seemingly overnight. [snow_laugh])
-
I agree with Lydia. I got the feeling that Beth just made up the "gentleman friend" to Quentin to explain why she was going into town.
I *think* Lydia's joke does refer to Beth seeing the gentleman.
And speaking of Lydia, welcome back to our Tattoed Lady/DSF God!
-
Oops! I guess I don't agree with Lydia, then! [signerror] It's Midnite that I agree with! Sorry I made a mistake. I was tired when I wrote that post. [snow_sleep]
----- Sally -----
[snow_bigglass] [hippy2]
-
When Beth said a while back that she was seeing her gentleman friend in town, wasn't that a lie told to cover her weekly visit to Mrs. Fillmore with the Collins cash and a care package? If she wanted to fool around with Dirk <gag!>, she wouldn't have to go to the village to do it. It was, as Quentin called it, "Backstairs excitement" (and its spinoff series, "Upstairs, Downstairs" ;)).
I've been watching Beth carefully (because I'm easily entertained ::)) for signs she was falling for Quentin-- that she did stay on because he might return, or that she was thrilled when he did or she wanted more from him-- you get the picture, but I noticed none of that... til now. We see a lot of sexual tension in this ep. There's no turning back now, girlfriend!
Ack I was just typing what seemed like a good response, and hit the wrong key and wiped it all!! Here goes trying to reconstruct it. I agree that the "gentleman friend" was a ruse -- not to mention a great way to zap Quentin with a well deserved zinger. And I don't see her as really interested in Dirk -- but she might have come to the conclusion that if she wanted marriage, he was the best she could expect. Maybe I need to back track a bit on that. We're originally told she was Jenny's ladies maid -- an upper class servant who is higher ranked than the rest of the servants, yet not near high enough to be family -- which limits social interactions, The impressions I've gotten is that she was of what used to be called "good family" but the family lost money due to anything from bank failures to death of the breadwinner/father -- or she may also have been a widow, which sure would explain Chavez attached to a Nordic looking blonde. She is very well spoken, and implication is more than a sketchy basic education. Dirk (I keep wanting to type DORK) is an upper level, highly regarded servant whom I think even had his own cottage.
Beth in this episode is at a crossroads; she sounds like she is not happy with what she is doing and is looking for an escape. [spoiler]we don't find out what part of the deal that troubles her, or whether it's all of it: hiding Jenny, keeping the children a secret, guilt over the blood money, etc. And this is before you add in guilt over being in love with Quentin while trying to care for Jenny. [/spoiler] Dirk, as obnoxious as he is, is taken with her and would probably have proposed; by the standards of the day, he was a good provider, and she would be far from the first woman, especially in those days, who married for convenience and ended up with a physically abusive bully.
What you see in this episode might even be her waking up to the fact that even QUENTIN was better behaved than Dirk [snow_wink] - and is THAT ever saying something. Course there's always the fact that they actually TALK to each other in that scene, instead of butting heads -- and find they like talking to each other. (Think Empire Strikes Back, when the screwball comedy like banter turns into actual romance.)
As for Quentin acting like a fraidy cat when he was convinced he was being haunted by a vengeful spirit, I think that if someone goes so far as to dabble in the Black Arts, then it's a given that they'd believe that death is not the end, that the veil between this and the spirit world can be lifted, and that dark nonhuman entities do exist. So I do feel his fear was true to character. JMO
That makes me think of a reference in a later episode, when things have gone to hell in the proverbial handbasket. Quentin is quietly speaking about how black magic had just been something fun and interesting to dabble in out of boredom, or something along those lines. That, and him fainting dead away when they think they raised the Devil , make me think he had only a passing belief, and when stuff REALLY happened it scared the daylights out of him.
Switching to Barnabas, I thought it odd that he was convinced Edith wouldn't rest in peace. I mean, we've all heard the stories about ghosts sticking around because of unfinished business, but Barnabas seemed darn sure it was going to happen even before there were any signs of a haunting. Which I guess is why Lydia and Robin wondered if he had anything to do with it. I agree with Lydia that the writing is just not good here.
Yes, I have no doubt that Barnabas would have stage managed that if he could, but did he have the supernatural abilities to pull it off? The writing leaves you with doubt on either side of that argument.
Jeannie
-
Maybe Barnabas knows something on the subject that we don't, about these precise circumstances.
-
It strikes me that Dirk addresses Quentin in rather a contemptuous manner for a subservient to his superior ("hey, what are you doing down here?").
Moreover, why is Barnabas so eager to jump into all this mess involving the will when he has no idea of how he might be affecting history with his actions? You'd think he'd be more restrained and willing to play the part of the dispassionate observer, at least until he'd gotten a better lay of the land and figured out what he should do to bring about the desired result for what was happening "back" in 1969.
-
Good catch on Dirk and Quentin. My guess is that Quentin is held in such contempt by those in power in the family that Dirk feels he can get away with it.
Barnabas and his time meddling. It's an onrunning sore point with me. Doesn't he even CONSIDER that things he changes could change everything he is trying to REPAIR? [8311] [homework] Don't even get me started on the 101 reasons Barnabas needs to study the Prime Directive....
Jeannie