Author Topic: Discuss - Ep #0336  (Read 3244 times)

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Offline Midnite

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2007, 12:12:10 AM »
The PT room is in the East Wing, so they would have been safe from that. But Quentin was in the West Wing.  ;)  Though without Chris and Amy around, he still might have remained dormant and Vicki and Burke probably would have had no reason the break down the false wall blocking the access to his room. Which is all too bad because think of how much more interesting it might have been to have had the Quentin storyline instead of the Adam storyline after Vicki's return from the past

Heh, heh.  Well, Burke did ask Liz if the West Wing had any Collins skeletons hidden away.  ;)

Offline Midnite

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2007, 12:58:05 AM »
I understand Vicky's concern for David and her reluctance to leave him, but given the way David continually has problems of some sort or other, if I were she I wouldn't make getting married contingent on David being OK.  The thing to do would be to bring in a replacement now while Vicky's still there, and give her a month or so to settle in, and to see if David would take to her.

I have to say I'm with Vicki on this.  This time, David is seeing a psychiatrist who called him very disturbed, and the boy is having terrifying dreams, displaying a [seemingly] irrational fear of death, and focusing on an imaginary friend/ghost.  Replacing the significant persons in his life, and that includes Burke, probably isn't a good idea right now, though it can't be as detrimental as military school <sigh>.

Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2007, 02:15:55 PM »
After all these years, I still don't understand what the rationale for sending "troubled" kids to military school is supposed to be, except maybe that it's to break their will, which is a disturbing thing for anyone to do to anyone else.

I'm glad to get the info. that the '91 series planned to go straight to Quentin, but it confirms that they were determined to use the same old plots.    Suspense is a little difficult to achieve when you know what's going to happen....
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Offline michael c

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2007, 06:15:24 PM »
one book that never leaves my night table is "AMY VANDERBILT'S COPMPLETE BOOK OF ETIQUETTE.A GUIDE TO GRACIOUS LIVING" published in 1952.i read it just for fun.

it outlines the byzantine rituals of upper-class life at the time.included are chapters devoted to such indespensable information as what type of clothes to pack for hunting and shooting,how to properly eat birds and frogs legs,when to applaud at the opera,how to address a letter to a marchioness("to the most honourable the marchioness of remington...")and how to properly greet household servants.

dark shadows usually got it right.a governess,tutor or companion is "miss"(miss winters)and housekeepers "miss" or "mrs."(mrs.johnson).chinese men sevants by the way are to be called by their last names,which,"chinese fashion"are given first(fu wang expects to be called "fu"). ::)

so anyways by the standards of the day it's not outrageous that it was expected that vicki would leave her job as governess once she got married.it was a postion intended for a young unmarried girl.once married it was expected that she would have her own home and children to care for.

even by 1967 standards this thinking was already a bit behing the times but d.s. opperated that way in terms of it's social mores.in some ways it's more a product of the 1950's more than the late 1960's.it being a daytime soap opera it needed to be nonoffensive to housewife friendly advertisers of products like floor wax and laundry detergent.so as outrageous as the plot was there needed to be a general air of propriety.

hence as much time as julia spent at the old house,sometimes till all hours of course,she needed to be at collinwood as the guest of elizabeth,not barnabas.it would not have been "appropriate" at the time for an unmarried lady to be living under the same roof as two men.
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Offline loril54

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2007, 06:23:44 PM »
But what did everyone think about Julia being there at all hours.  :D
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Offline Midnite

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2007, 06:33:36 PM »
Fascinating, mscbryk.

so anyways by the standards of the day it's not outrageous that it was expected that vicki would leave her job as governess once she got married.it was a postion intended for a young unmarried girl.once married it was expected that she would have her own home and children to care for.

Then by this standard, shouldn't Vicki have postponed her wedding for David's sake?

Offline Sunny_Collins

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2007, 06:44:35 PM »
Thanks so much for the interesting information, Mscbryk.  8)

Sometimes I think DS in the present almost portrayed the atmosphere and attitudes of an earlier century.
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Offline michael c

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2007, 06:47:40 PM »
Then by this standard, shouldn't Vicki have postponed her wedding for David's sake?

it is within the nature of the character that she would have postponed the wedding at least until this particular crisis with david had been resolved.
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Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2007, 11:03:21 PM »
In this very proper soap opera, we saw things such as severed body parts and corpses with their eyes open, which I don't think prime time was allowed to show.  Just thought I'd throw that in.
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Offline michael c

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2007, 12:38:31 AM »
perhaps i should clarify what i meant.

true the show did feature violent and often gorry elements but the fact that all of this took place on the estate of a respectable dowager gave the whole thing an air of propriety that made it past the censors.i don't think the same story could have been told about a poor rural communtiy at the time.for good or bad these were a very genteel group of people for the most part.

and they were very careful about the appearance of sexual impropriety among the leads.

for instance there were several occasions where joe thought it best that he spend the night at the evans cottage rather than leaving maggie there alone.however they made a very big deal of mentioning that joe would be crashing on the couch lest the viewer get the impression that he was sleeping with his girlfriend.this mattered.

a similar thing happens when the storyline returns to the present after 1795.vicki asks maggie if she would ask her father if it's o.k. for jeff to stay in a previously unmentioned "spare room" at the evans cottage.having jeff stay in what was basically a two room shack versus having him stay at collinwood,a house with forty rooms,makes little sense until you consider that having jeff and vicki,unmarried yet romantically involved,living in the same house was not proper at the time.when sam dies jeff instictively offers to move out post haste saying it wouldn't be "right" for him to stay there any longer and maggie immediately agrees.it mattered.

and as i said no matter how late and how long julia was at the old house they almost always showed us julia...dressed,coiffed and gloved...leaving to return to collinwood at some point.it mattered.

this is all coded stuff but it mattered.the show could show decapitated bodies,blood and rotting corpses but it could not have unmarried characters of the opposite sex(at least in terms of the leads)living in the same house.

again i think that this made the outrageous plots acceptable to censors and advertisers.
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2007, 08:53:36 PM »
I'm glad to get the info. that the '91 series planned to go straight to Quentin, but it confirms that they were determined to use the same old plots.    Suspense is a little difficult to achieve when you know what's going to happen....

They used many of the same plot elements in the '91 series - but they combined them with many changes. A great deal of the '91 DS was completely of its own invention - and from what I've read of what was intended for the second season, that sort of invention would have continued.

Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2007, 09:09:57 PM »
It's that inbetween limbo nether-region that bothers me, though maybe not quite as much as totally copying the original..... I want it to be one thing or the other.    I want a film to add to and enrich the original story, not replace it by saying, alright now we're doing it up right, with money, and here's how it all really happened.

It's one thing to retell Dracula, or Frankenstein, or ?... very differently.  We're not invested in those stories or the characters as we are with a series.    Those are basic ideas that can be presented in any number of different ways. 

There has to be an equally compelling intro for Barnabas, to an audience who doesn't know him well, which is new (and continuous with original DS events)... some later, or earlier, events which are just as good an introduction as Willie and the coffin.   If no one can come up with any, maybe they need to wait on doing the film.    Human creativity isn't dead, even in Hollywood.     To executives: Call up one of those clever creative writers you don't want to hire anymore because remakes are easier.

How about starting with BC and Ang in Martinique?    Just a scene or two.    Flash to Ang's big cursing scene, then ahead to new, post 1971 events?   Just spitballing.   Just running things up poles to see who does whatever.
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2007, 04:00:51 PM »
It's that inbetween limbo nether-region that bothers me, though maybe not quite as much as totally copying the original..... I want it to be one thing or the other.

Well, you know - no matter how a remake, reimagining, etc. takes shape, there are always people who won't be satisfied with the way it's done. People complain they don't want to see the same material covered and that they want a new story with new twists and turns - but when things are changed, people complain things are not the same as the original. It's just a no-win situation.  :-

I've mentioned this before, but I think the best bit of advice was contained in an article about the reimagined version of The Night Stalker:
something that I wholeheartedly agree with as a general principle is the sentiment expressed in the first two paragraphs of the Creature Corner review:

"Sacrilege!" That's the usual cry when a genre classic ends up on the conveyor belt to remakesville, and all too often we spend way too much time bemoaning the ways in which the new version deviates from what we know and love, and too little time considering whether the new material stands up in its own right.

In other words, sometimes a remake isn't always a bad thing. They can honour the original and stand alone as solid entertainment at the same time.

Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0336
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2007, 04:06:57 AM »
That is not my attitude.
"One can never go wrong with weapons and drinks as fashion accessories."-- the eminent and clearly quotable Dark Shadows fan and board mod known as Mysterious Benefactor