Why Does The End of 1840 Make Me Feel That The Cast/Writers Stopped Caring??

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I think a simple google search on "self-incrimination" would provide you with evidence to the contrary.

...

Realism and accuracy went out the window when this became a witchcraft trial.

Sadly, we learned during Leviathans with Philip that the DS writers apparently couldn't have cared less when it came to dealing with the realities of the law. Dramatic license (i.e. a witchcraft trial in the 19th century) is one thing when it's used to make the circumstances surrounding a case more exciting for the audience. And the dramatic effects of any fictional court case are bound to be heightened. (Although, I found it interesting that Amy Brennerman remarked on Regis and Kelly last week that on Judging Amy they try to stay away from her character constantly pounding her gavel because real judges rarely seem to do that (Brennerman's mom is the judge the series is loosely based on), while fictitious judges seem to use their gavels at every conceivably opportune moment - particularly on the soaps - as Kelly Ripa was only too happy to point out from her days on All My Children.) But I totally agree that completely throwing the reality of the law out the window along with the way law enforcement really operates is quite another thing. 

[onyx_treasure]

, the most unbelievable thing of all.....a Mistress of the Mansion who hasn't gone out shopping for 20 years!!! 

   When you are as rich as Elizabeth your dressmaker comes to you.  Unfortunately, the dressmaker was Oscar de la Orhbachs.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Unfortunately, the dressmaker was Oscar de la Orhbachs.

[Nancy]

No attempt at explaining how the above mentioned inconsistencies affected 1897 or the modern dress stories. No attempt at wrapping up loose ends or even saying goodbye to beloved characters.

I understand that they all felt a need to move on by 1971. So end the story properly & move on.

But the show's last 3 months give me the sinking feeling that no one involved gave a shit anymore, and that neither Frid, Curtis, Sam or Gordon had enough respect for the audience to wrap things up before calling it quits.

I know that I lost interest in the show well before the last three months, so I didn't feel "disrespected" in any way since I was the one who had stopped watching.  However, I don't think Frid was writing scripts so he didn't decide anything about loose ends.  The writers on the series, IIRC, had already a reputation for just writing sloppy endings and not tying up loose ends so the way they supposedly wrote the last three months would not be surprising.

Ending the show in 1841PT has got to be the most unsatisfying ending of a show in TV history.

Oh I would have to disagree.  I think one of the most unsatisfying ends to a show was St. Elsewhere's last episode.  The whole thing was a dream?

Am I being to harsh?

I think so.   But only because in perspective the writers and producer (who tells the writers what to do) just hurried up and finished off the series not doing so with the thought any of it would ever be seen again, though that is no excuse for sloppiness.  Also, I don't think anyone thought the ending of the show -- good or bad - would have a devastating personal impact on viewers just being a television show and all.

Nancy

[Philippe Cordier]

I think a simple google search on "self-incrimination" would provide you with evidence to the contrary.

...

No, he was called as a witness for the State to provide evidence that Quentin was possessed.  As a result of his testimony he was arrested and charged with witchcraft.

I'd probably have to watch the scenes in question again -- I really didn't watch them that closely, and so my impressions may be based on inaccurate recall.  I was relying more on my general impressions, and also on what I seem to remember from Ben's posts during the last run.  I may be mischaracterizing what he wrote, but I thought Ben was fairly complementary overall to these trial scenes, writing from a professional legal perspective.  I myself have paralegal certification, but you'd obviously not want to rely on me for legal advice    (Paralegals of course are not supposed to provide "legal advice"  )  Obviously this is a fictional trial, but it has an overlay of legal terminology that, to the uninitiated, is at least dramatically effective, in my humble opinion. And most high-profile trials in real life are also riddled with procedural errors (one of the main reasons for appellate courts) if not judicial misconduct, which obviously also occurs.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

I thought Ben was fairly complementary overall to these trial scenes, writing from a professional legal perspective.

Your memory is correct - Ben was impressed with the way these court scenes were handled.

(It's really too bad that we were never able to preserve so many of those posts from the forum's VN days.  )

[Luciaphile]

OH yeah, the most unbelievable thing of all.....a Mistress of the Mansion who hasn't gone out shopping for 20 years!!![/font] 

No, no. That I could buy. What killed me was that supposedly pre-Mrs. Johnson, the Collinses all did their own housework. Picture it now: Mrs. Stoddard in her black velvet and pearls (which I think poor Joan Bennett had to wear for like two weeks) behind a Hoover . . .

[Mysterious Benefactor]

What killed me was that supposedly pre-Mrs. Johnson, the Collinses all did their own housework.

Maybe Liz deliberately gave the wrong impression and they actually had David do all the housecleaning. That might not only explain all the cobwebs that were still around the place - but why David always felt so angry towards everyone else. 

[danfling]

The show did not know at the conclusion of the 1840 storyline that the ending was to be in April.

So, ratings had fallen after the Levithan storyline, but, when the 1940 Parallel Time story was airing, the ratings were actually rising.

It is reported that Diana Millay had been asked to and had agreed to return to the show, but the cancellation came that there was no time for her to return.

Also, I understand that Alexandra Moltke had been asked to return to the show also.    And Keith Prentiss had a contract, but I am not sure for what length of time.

(I have suspected that the role of Joanna Mills was written with the possibility of the return of Ms. Moltke and that she would be playing the role.)

The puzzlement to me in 1971 and still today was why there were so many performers hired during the 1840 storyline but they were slowly being dropped - not used in the 1840 storyline but still Keith Prentiss was hired and was offered a contract with the show.

During the final months of the show, added to the cast were Donna Wandrey, Kathy Cody, Kate Jackson, James Storm, Virginia Vestoff, Gene Lindsey, Tom Happer, Keith Prentiss, and Lee Beery.

In addition, Clarice Blackburn, Jerry Lacy, Terry Crawford, Elizabeth Eis, and Humbert Allen Astredo (who had not been on the show for a while) were brought back.

I know that Denise Nickerson left, so the hiring of Kathy Cody made since.    The departure of Katheryn Leigh Scott necessitated the hiring of Virginia Vestoff.   (I understand that the character of Samantha was written for Katheryn Leigh Scott.)    Ms. Scott's departure also necessatated the hiring of Donna Wandrey and the changing of Lara Parker into a sympathetic figure.    (She was the most popular Dark Shadows actress during the show's last year, according to the Daytime Television magazine's poll.)

When the show moved over to 1850 Parallel Time, Virginia Vestoff and Jerry Lacy were quickly killed off.    Not used at all were Tom Happer, James Storm, Gene Lindsey, David Henesy (who had left the show, but we did not know that at the time), Michael Stroka, Donna Wandrey (who may have been dismissed from the show - I am not sure), and Lee Beery.

I never understood why there were so many characters in 1840 but not in the Parallel Time.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Not used at all were Tom Happer, James Storm, Gene Lindsey, David Henesy (who had left the show, but we did not know that at the time), Michael Stroka, Donna Wandrey (who may have been dismissed from the show - I am not sure), and Lee Beery.

Actually, James Storm appears in two 1841PT episodes (#1207/1208 & #1209) as psychic Gerard Stiles, who helps out Kendrick (John Karlen). 

As for Gene Lindsey, the part of Randall Drew was created with Don Briscoe in mind, but when Briscoe was unavailable, Lindsey was hired. Perhaps the DS PTB simply weren't interested in him doing more than filling Briscoe's 1840 shoes (though, as competent in the role as he was, I seriously doubt that Briscoe's legion of lust crazed fanatics (and you all know who you are!!) ever thought that Lindsey was up to THAT particular challenge  ).

[Josette]

If you're right about them not knowing it would be ending when they were finishing 1840, then that answers my comments in another thread.  I always felt it made sense to finish up the PT story once they had started it.  Even at this point we have lots of questions and it has barely started.  To just drop that and go back to a present story would have been a shame.  But, I always questioned their starting the story in the first place.  It seemed so unnecessary during 1840.  But, if they didn't know it would be ending so soon, then any story they wanted to pursue seems just fine.

Also,

[spoiler]I'm assuming in the present that Barnabas really couldn't be anyone except Barnabas.  Since he wanted to play another character, this PT story was probably the only way to do that.[/spoiler]

[scout75]

For me, the most disappointing part of 1840 is Gerard Stiles. We come back from PT into 1995 and 1970 to see the devastation his ghost has brought down upon Collinwood. There's the mystery of Rose Cottage, the merry-go-round, Daphne's ghost, etc.

So 1840 gets underway and we find that Stiles was actually possessed by Judan Zachary, whom, I believe, is the son of the Devil. Well, besides gaining a minion in Charles Dawson and Edith Collins, what else does he do? Take Quentin's trial: shouldn't the son of the Devil be able to have more of an effect on the outcome?

What exactly are the fringe benefits of being the Devil's spawn?

 

[Dr. Eric Lang]

You're right, of course.  I don't think there were many -- or possibly any -- witch trials in America after Salem in 1692. 

I believe I've read elsewhere that the last known witchcraft trial to be held in America was in 1785. So the 1795 trial was not quite the stretch that the 1840 trial was. Belief in witches died out with the beginning of the industrial revolution.

My own take on 1840 was that it ended rather abruptly, and seemed rushed. This is perhaps due more to Frid's demand to play a different character than anything else. His contract was up and he would not continue on the show unless he was given a new character to play, thus 1840 had to be quickly ended to accomodate him.

I've always felt 1841 PT was a big mistake and that Frid could have played a different character in the present day. As it's been pointed out, the trip to 1840 should have altered the present day drastically. Barnabas could have remained behind in 1840 to live out his natural life with Angelique while Julia alone returned to 1971, upon which she would find an entirely different Collins clan living at Collinwood. Frid could have played a descendant of Barnabas.

I've long had a sneaking suspicion that 1841PT was decided upon because they knew the show was ending and didn't want to bother with the expense of changing the sets back to 1971 status.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

As it's been pointed out, the trip to 1840 should have altered the present day drastically.

The operative word there being "should".    But as we've also made note of, changing events in the past on DS only seemed to change the consequences of events in the present, not necessarily the actual events themselves. Even though it should have, changing history in 1897 didn't wipe out David and Amy's memories of Quentin - the consequence was that David didn't die. Everything else seemed to have taken place in spite of history having been changed. When it came to things like Causality, DS walked a slippery and very unique slope.

Barnabas could have remained behind in 1840 to live out his natural life with Angelique while Julia alone returned to 1971, upon which she would find an entirely different Collins clan living at Collinwood. Frid could have played a descendant of Barnabas.

But on the other hand, that's an inventive premise that might have been very interesting to watch. The trouble with it, though, is that, short of Frid having left the show entirely, it's extremely unlikely that the audience would have tolerated Barnabas disappearing from the scene altogether. They would have been clamoring for his return, just as they did after it appeared that he had been staked in 1897. And we should also note that Frid never said he didn't want to play Barnabas anymore, only that he was getting tired of playing him as a vampire.

[IluvBarnabas]

I loved the 1840 storyline but it did have its share of inconscinities.

[spoiler]The deaths of Gabriel and Edith....Edith is supposed to live on to 1897, she did after all raise the 4 grandchildren Judith, Edward, Quentin and Carl....I suppose you could argue that since history was changed either their children didn't die after all and raised the four or maybe Tad stayed on at Collinwood and raised them.

With Lamar dead, wouldn't that mean the Trasks of 1897, Gregory and Charity, ceased to exist? Unless the Trask of 1795 had another son we didn't know about.

Joshua was supposed to have given Ben his freedom at Barnabas' request at the end of 1795, yet Ben is still working at Collinwood in 1840. (Though I think this can be explained of the fact that when Barnabas went to 1796 to save Vicki, he had Ben send Joshua to Bangor to look for him. When Barnabas succeeded in saving Vicki, he had Ben chain him back in the coffin before Joshua returned. Thus he didn't have the opportunity to ask his father about freeing Ben again. Too bad because I think Ben deserved to be free after all he's done for
the Collinses).

And how was Barnabas able to turn Roxanne into a vampire when he was still chained up in the unchanged history of 1840? Surely he would have remembered being let out that period (even for a short while). Who made Roxanne a vampire before?[/spoiler]

Just some food for thought.