How to explain 1840 Angelique...?

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Frid had said that he didn't want to play Barn as a vampire anymore, not that he didn't want to play Barn. And that would have certainly complicated matters with the writers' plans for 1971. But what Frid really objected to was how TPTB wanted Barn to look when he attacked people. To say he hated it would be an understatement. And if you'll notice, once 1970 Barn inhabits 1840 Barn, he's never seen attacking anyone. So something similar may have been a compromise and that may have been the way things would have continued if the show had gone beyond 1841PT. Barn being a vampire could have been a plot point (Frid did love playing the whole addiction/secret angle - and I strongly suspect that playing a story in which Barn's secret cost Roger his life would have been really meaty for Frid), but he wouldn't have been going around attacking people on screen. Well, except maybe in extremely rare cases and far more subtly than he had in the past. But we'll never know...

[michael c]

by 1970 the storyline for roger had grown pretty skimpy. louis edmonds seemed to do better during the time travel storylines by that point. so i guess it's not inconceivable that one of the "core" collins family members would be killed off.

what i do find impossible to imagine is barnabas doing the killing at this stage. considering the fuss that is made about him killing carl during 1897 and returning to his "evil ways" during the leviathan arc i imagine a huge fan outcry if he offed such an established and beloved character.

to add to the rumor mill i've always heard that edmonds was concerned about having to go out and find work again after five years when DS left the air.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

The plan wasn't that Barn would kill Roger - a certain witch who wasn't quite dead was to do the deed.    But I have no idea how the writers planned to explain her resurrection because no one has ever explained that. But, of course, I doubt anyone would have seriously thought that 1841 would have ever been the last of her, so her return in 1971 wouldn't have exactly come as a complete shock to anyone.  

[Taeylor Collins]

Oh that is cool! Thanks.

[Gerard]

Or, instead of killing Roger off if he found out about Barnabas (because Mr. Edmonds wanted to leave the series), they could've just had him go bleeblableebla and pack him off to Wyndcliffe in the hopes that Mr. Edmonds would change his mind down the road.  They could've even brought up his name every once in awhile, such as when Julia has to go back there to do some work, or when Elizabeth went to visit him with a bundt cake.

But, anyway, back to on-topic about Angie-Baby.  I still think that after Barnabas gave her the pushing-daises in 1796, she was resurrected and would secretly return to Collinsport every few years or so to check on her handiwork (the 1840 storyline said she did).  In 1968, she made her return visit only to discover Barnabas not only released but cured, so she stopped off at a hair salon in Bangor, got a new colored-and-permed do, and plotted how to get herself back into the Collins family so she could practice more mischief.  Of course, being a super-powered witch, she didn't age.  Rumor has it that Joan Rivers even consulted her.

Gerard

[Gerard]

But, of course, I doubt anyone would have seriously thought that 1841 would have ever been the last of her, so her return in 1971 wouldn't have exactly come as a complete shock to anyone.  

I think I mentioned this somewhere before.  When I did my own Charles-Delaware-Trollish of what-happened-if-the-series-continued schtick, in a plot-line, the warp to present-day parallel time reopens and Barnabas sees Angelique there, frightened and confused, trying to hide and he crosses over to rescue her and bring her back.  He discovers that, because of her human sacrifice of herself in 1841, this time the demonic forces don't resurrect her, but angelic forces.  However, her "purgatory" was to be sent to parallel time along with the promise she would never use her powers again (they remain dormant, as a "test" for her - does she ever use them again? - maybe, maybe not in one of my other plotlines).  Anyway, while she's trapped there, she is in hiding because the survivors from parallel time (primarily Quentin and Maggie) think she's their Angelique and hunt for her.  The subplot invoves Quentin and Maggie, living in the former Loomis House (since Collinwood was burned and the ruins were razed to the ground), at each other's throats, both telling the returned Baranbas (who also manages to convince them that his Angelique is not their Angelique) that they are trying to gaslight each other to the point of murder.  It turns out that it was actually the emotionally-distrubed Daniel who was doing it, traumatized by what happened to his mother and blaming his father and step-mother.  And Roxeanne, thrilled to see her Barnabas back again, is thrown in for good measure.  Anyway, all is resolved, Daniel is packed off to Wyndliffe, Quentin and Maggie are reconciled, and Barnabas and Angelique return to their own time (with Roxeanne vowing she will somehow find her Barnabas again - another later plotline?).

Gerard

[IluvBarnabas]

I hate the thought of killing off Roger....I would rather he'd been sent packing to Windcliff or better still send him on another extended business trip in the event Louis decided to come back.

As far as Angelique is concerned, I think she was the reincarnation of Miranda, she was simply 'reborn' with a new identity, Angelique Bouchard, in the 1700's. While Judah may have been responsible for teaching Miranda everything she knew as he claimed later on, perhaps when she was born again as Angelique, she had to learn them all over again, this time from the woman she knew as her mother. That's my take on it, at least.

[Robot_Quentin]

Digging this thread people!!

"Haven't you seen all of the episodes several times!" "YES MOM of course but I still enjoy them...

Taeylor that was too funny! Thats my mom too asking me about DS or Star Trek.... In the case of Trek I can at least say, "Yes mom, but these are the newly remastered versions with new special effects!!"  I can hear her rolling her eyes over the phone even!!

I really figured that the 1840 Angelique was linear from 1795. The first thing out of her mouth was "Barnabas Collins was the only man I ever loved." Plausable I guess that she was stopping by to check on B, since he's obviously still very important to her. It seems that's something the '68 Cassandra would have never said since maybe she had 200 years of bitterness built up to be bent on one thing. Revenge! Who knows how long it was for her after being banished by the big 'D' that she re-appears in 1897. As that timeline progresses Barn and her reach a somewhat amicable agreement between themselves for coexistence.

In the words of Captain Janeway "Time paradoxes give me a headache!"

[libshad84]

For me I would have preferred the "all knowing" Angelique as apposed to the "1795 plus 45 yrs Angelique". Would have made the ending better, too.

[Taeylor Collins]

Thanks ROBOT QUENTIN. My mom doesn't roll her eyes but she doesn't "Get it" In fact when the Revival was off on hiatus or so I thought in the summer. I keep watching it over and over and my tapes were actually taken away for a month because I was becoming "obsessed" according to my folks. I was 13 at time. Perhaps they were right?  HEE HEE  I know of more obsessive fans than I though.  I pointed out, to my mother and father, the girl who had changed her name to Josette Collins and the housewife who had permanent fangs installed.

On topic.  My friend wrote an excellent story in the first Fanzine I produced THE LARA ZINE. The story is called THE PAWN and it's about Angelique showing up in 1967 to check on Willie.  Of course one has to ignore all the time jumping when reading this. 

Ultimately she enchants Willie so that he will release Barnabas. Great story. I am not exactly adding any theories but I found this story to be interesting since she did make a pilgrimage every year since 1795.

[MagnusTrask]

I would so like to cancel out any on-air remarks about Ang having followed Vicki straight from 1795, and make 1692 Miranda a previous incarnation.   If A look in on the mausoleum every year till 1968 though, it explains why shje might have been around in 1897 "the first time" to get Beth [spoiler]all jealous[/spoiler]... but then there'd have been two A's the second time...

[Uncle Roger]

Okay, I'm not quite certain if I'm heading off topic with this but here goes. There may or may not be two versions of Angelique in the contemporary episodes. While cassandra is at Collinwood causing trouble with the dream curse, it appears that at the same time Angelique is working as a model and attracting the attention of Sky Rumson.

Any theories on this?

[MagnusTrask]

There's no history (as stated onscreen) in DS of a character time-travelling to a time she/he already exists, and living concurrently with her/him, as if two separate people, but I think that has to be what happened with Angelique.

[michael c]

in the parallel-time topic recently someone stated that the writers seemed more concerned with what impact a particular situation would have on that day's episode than whether or not it fit into overall series continuity or made any real sense even within the DS world.

the reason for this being the presence of quentin and angelique in 1970 parallel time. the whole premise of the storyline was an alternate version of the "present" where the characters lead different lives based on making different choices. in some examples they follow through with this setup. for instance "hoffman" could legitimately be a variation on the julia of the present who became, for whatever reasons, a maid rather than persuing a medical career. but it's the same person.

however quentin and angelique don't legitimately have any counterparts in the "present". they are not actually extant. they only exist there through various supernatural manipulations but they are not truly "part" of that time.

however the impact of this storyline comes from their participation. it could be the same case with 1840. the writers just thought the impact would come from angelique's presence, the DUH-DUH-DUH!!! moment so to speak. it didn't have to make sense.

and of course there is the old chestnut that these episode were only supposed to be viewed ONCE. there was a presumption that viewers would simply "forget" the actual progression of events over time and just accept new twists the writers came up with because they was no way to backtrack or cross-reference anything. it's a cynical viewpoint but true.

[Uncle Roger]

When comic book characters have conflicting, multiple origins, the solution is sometimes for the character to have given "false memories". This may work for Angelique as well. Which set of memories are untrue? Take your pick. And, since most of her info is presented by the Prince of Lies and other less than honest characters, it could be any of the many conflicting stories.