How to explain 1840 Angelique...?

[michael c]

i'm not very well versed on 1840 but perhaps barnabas somehow stumbled into the original,UNALTERED,turn of events.

the natural progression of years uninterrupted by constant visitations from time traveling vampires,ingenue governesses and lovelorn lady doctors. without all of these interuptions(and the ensuing chaos and changes brought about by these visiting outsiders)angelique simply stayed in her time(1795)and drifted about(unaged,of course)until the barnabas released in 1967 showed up. without vicki's 1795 visitation ang would never have showed up in 1968 or any of the future(or past)time periods.

in other words 1840 angelique simply followed an unaltered timeline.

[tragic bat]

No, it doesn't make any sense--and I'm afraid that messing with the continuity to give us a different Angelique didn't make any of it more interesting or really less repetitive, either.  It just makes Angelique's real history seem meaningless.  Personally, I just blacken that part out as bad writing when thinking of Angelique's biography. 

[Midnite]

In an unaltered 1795, Angelique would still have been strangled by Barnabas as the first victim of the curse, buried in the woods, and risen as a restless and vengeful spirit with sights soon set on Josette.  Her first appearance was as a disembodied head, though Vicki's trial showed us she was capable of appearing human for a time and vanishing again at will.  But by the end of 1795, her spirit was only able to strike out from the portrait-- the same one that will travel to 1968; this is what lead me to believe that by the time Bathia Mapes shows up at Collinwood, Angelique has already been consigned to hell.  Before Vicki went back in time, who knows how long Angelique would have languished there, which is why I'm intrigued by your theory, mscbryk.

But in my heart, I don't believe there's an explanation for her existence as a human during 1840, just as there isn't one for either the surge in her powers (she's capable of lifting the curse, which the much more powerful Angelique of 1897 couldn't pull off) or the amazingly sudden change in her personality during that time period.

[michael c]

another little bit of confusion for me...

i've been watching 1897 and in the episode where quentin fist conjures up angelique she asks what year it is. when told that it's 1897 she remarks what a "long time" it had been since she'd been at collinwood implying she meant the century between her time there in 1795 and 1897 not the three or so months since the last time she'd been there in 1968. and this angelique is the angelique who'd lived as cassandra and in the vampire state, right?

[Nightfall59]

But in my heart, I don't believe there's an explanation for her existence as a human during 1840, just as there isn't one for either the surge in her powers (she's capable of lifting the curse, which the much more powerful Angelique of 1897 couldn't pull off) or the amazingly sudden change in her personality during that time period.

Couldn't agree more.  Angelique had second thoughts and tried to lift the curse in 1795/96 and was unsuccessful. "What is done cannot be undone," I believe was her ominous observation. And, in 1897, why go through the whole process of continuing Julia's "experiment"--after Julia was sucked back into 1969--if she had the power to simply lift the curse?  We know Angie often went the long way about things, but that seemed to be a whole lot of trouble to go to when the end result would have been the same.

I'm one of those viewers that actually like 1995 and most of the set-up to 1840, but. to me anyway, 1840/41 itself was one long drawn out WTF. But I guess all the inconsistencies have kept us talking about it forty years later. Not to mention the reams of fanfiction that have been written by still befuddled fans trying to "explain" things.  

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Her first appearance was as a disembodied head, though Vicki's trial showed us she was capable of appearing human for a time and vanishing again at will.  But by the end of 1795, her spirit was only able to strike out from the portrait-- the same one that will travel to 1968; this is what lead me to believe that by the time Bathia Mapes shows up at Collinwood, Angelique has already been consigned to hell.

Very interesting theory.    In reality I honestly suspect that Ang only striking out through the portrait had more to do with DC not wanting to pay Lara Parker to appear on the show if they could work a way around it than it did with the writers implying anything actually having to do with Ang personally. But within the context of the show's plot where little realities like the unwillingness of an exec producer to pay an actress has no bearing whatsoever, it's a fascinating possibility to think that Ang only struck through the portrait because she was actually unable to interact in any other way...

[Midnite]

when told that it's 1897 she remarks what a "long time" it had been since she'd been at collinwood implying she meant the century between her time there in 1795 and 1897 not the three or so months since the last time she'd been there in 1968.

At some point after cursing Liz, her Master sent her back to 1796 where Ben took a torch to her in the tower room.  Her next time on Earth is in 1897.

and this angelique is the angelique who'd lived as cassandra and in the vampire state, right?

Right (while in 1897, she knew David, Julia, and Chris' secret, etc.).

It just makes Angelique's real history seem meaningless.

Reincarnation seems the only plausible explanation for the otherwise major rewriting of her backstory.  It was mentioned that in 1840, Angelique/Valerie recalls being a young servant named Miranda in Judah's coven, testifying at his trial, and more when previously, Nicholas said Angelique was born in 1774 and Natalie once recalled her childhood in Martinique.

[loril54]

Here is a thought, couldn't the CEO of Hell, loved the fact that Angelique always lost with
Barnabas. Maybe there was a tracking spell that when ever Barnabas got close to caring
about someone, Angelique would have been sent back to cause problem.  It is just like
the road runner and the coyote.

Lela was just trying to give a reason for DS to have a life after it went off the year. Just
think we have a whole industry of, did or didn't Barnabas love Angelique.

[Midnite]

But within the context of the show's plot where little realities like the unwillingness of an exec producer to pay an actress has no bearing whatsoever, it's a fascinating possibility to think that Ang only struck through the portrait because she was actually unable to interact in any other way...

Intentional or not, it very nicely set up her return (and one of LP's best entrances) in 1968, where a portrait and an evil laugh stand in for Angelique, and Roger even elopes with the thing before returning with his fleshed-out brunette bride. 

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Definitely!

It's just so sad that DC was too cheap to even used Lara's own laugh instead of some canned laughter from who the hell knows who who didn't even sound like Lara. But then, that was DC's MO to a tee. 

[Brandon Collins]

I was going to read all three pages of this thread, but after reading through only half of the first page my mind began to boggle and I had to stop before I went insane. lol. Honestly, trying to figure out some of the timelines that took place on this show is not only mind numbing but it's also suicidal. The fact of the matter is that the writers didn't pay much attention to continuity, as we all know, which is one of the best things about DS because it allows us, the fans, to continually debate exactly what happened.

Whatever the reason, I'm glad the brought back Angelique as much as they did because she was obviously a fan favorite and was the character who could throw a wrench into any storyline.

[quentincollins]

Angelique was supposed to be the reincarnation of Miranda was my understanding.
I think that Angelique's path follows what we see on screen. 1795 to 1968 to 1796 to 1897, and then back to 1970 - and I think she lived thru all the years between 1796 and 1897 and then from 1897 to 1970 allowing for a more mature and mellow personality.
I think 1840 Angelique is the one who belongs in that time period. There is no answer that really works to explain it without inventing huge stories to explain it, which can be fun, but aren't offical. I think Angie just didn't really follow Vicki right away and hung around a few decades. This Angelique hadn't met Julia or lived in the 20th century yet.
Her death in 1840 would surely have been temproary and she was probably resurrected in the 20 th century with memories of both timelines. The audio drama sequels have her resurrected in the 80s with all her memories seemingly intact.
I think it's kind of a blessing that DS is so complicted that we never get it all figured out, I'd much rather have complex puzzles like this to wonder over than something wrapped up too neatly.

[Nightfall59]

Angelique had second thoughts and tried to lift the curse in 1795/96 and was unsuccessful. "What is done cannot be undone," I believe was her ominous observation. And, in 1897, why go through the whole process of continuing Julia's "experiment"--after Julia was sucked back into 1969--if she had the power to simply lift the curse?

Another point I nearly forgot about is that when Barnabas went back to 1840, he was no longer under Angelique's curse. He was a vampire at that point because Jeb had re-cursed him in the Leviathan story. Maybe the Leviathan curse was easier for Angelique to remove than her curse had been? Or perhaps Barn would have still been a vampire when he went back to 1971? We saw so little of the return to the present that it's difficult to say. I know many fans constantly wonder why--if he'd been free of the curse since 1841--he didn't age or crumble to dust when he returned to 1971. LOL! So many inconsistencies. But that's part of the charm of DS, I suppose.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

The writers had planned for Barnabas to still be a vampire in 1971. In fact, Louis Edmonds was seriously considering leaving DS, and along those lines the plan was formulated to kill off Roger after he found out about Barn. But, of course, we'll never know if Edmonds would have actually left or if Roger would have been killed off.

[Taeylor Collins]

Okay now I am confused. I have heard two different stories: Jonathan didn't want to play Barnabas anymore, Jonathan wouldn't play Barnabas as a vampire anymore just as a human.  I don't want to get too off topic so someone please set this straight once and for all.  I kind of like the thought of Roger finding out about Barnabas and his ghost haunting Collinwood like in the Sam Hall article.