Lets talk about the dumbest things the writers ever did.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Really?  That whole Barn and Julia bit and going to Asia?  That was part of it?

Nope. That was one of the bits that was part of Hall's flights of fancy. 


And incidentally just as a note to everyone, the spoiler feature isn't back to working. Midnite simply added it to her post, so I went into the database and fixed it. Hopefully, though, the feature will return for real at some point.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Which part of the forum
that discuss the ending of the show?

Unfortunately there's no one part that I can point you to because the topic pops up on several different boards in the Current Talk section. The best way to find them is to do an advanced search of the Current Talk boards, possibly using the word cancel as the search criteria.

To do the search, first click on the "Advanced Search" link that appears in the header on every forum page. Once that comes up, enter the word "cancel" in the box under "Search for:". Next, scroll down and uncheck the box opposite "Check all", then click on the "Choose a board to search in, or search all" link. Once that comes up, check all the Current Talk boards, and then click on the "Search" button. The search will also bring up topics that have nothing to do with DS' cancellation because it's bringing up all the topics that it finds the word "cancel" in - but it will also bring up many of the topics that you're looking for. And that should get you started. 

Good luck! 

[Brandon Collins]

While it's true that Angelique leaving Julia to die in that little room, then to be turned into a vampire is HORRIBLE, that is perhaps the worst thing that she did to Julia. She also inflicted the Dream Curse on her in present time, as Cassandra, but that's not so horrible. Tell someone and you're done!

BUT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SCALE YOU HAVE

Naomi's Death.

Sarah's Death.

Josette's Death.

Jeremiah betraying Barnabas.

Maggie Evans being tormented because Barn fancied her.

The entire present day family suffering from the Dream Curse.

Anglique framing Vicki for being a witch, because A) it was convenient, and B) because Barnabas was focusing on getting her found not guilty.

And I'm sure I missed many more.


My original comment was not to imply that Angelique never did anything to Julia, but, given that Julia bitch slapped her, and confronted her several times, and was always hanging on Barnabas like a rag doll, and was always helping Barnabas thwart Angelique's latest plan, and was constantly throwing her hands up and screaming "Oh-oh Bar-na-bas Nooooooooooo!!!!!!! Uh-uh-uh-uh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", Angelique should've done MORE to her, since Julia obviously was smitten.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

Angelique should've done MORE to her, since Julia obviously was smitten.

If we think about it storylinewise, though, Angelique didn't often have much opportunity or inclinations to harm Julia - nor would it have been to her advantage.

When Cassandra first came on the scene, she was friends with Julia and obsessed with the Dream Curse. By the time she might have noticed that Julia hadn't exactly been entirely truthful about her relationship with Barnabas, Nicholas was also on the scene insisting in no uncertain terms that Cassandra focus solely on the Dream Curse - even going so far as to torture Cassandra. And soon thereafter she would have risked Nicholas' ire if she'd taken any steps against Julia because Julia was an essential part of Nicholas' plans for Adam. Not that Cassandra didn't court Nicholas' ire when it came to her attempt to kill Adam - but she saw killing Adam as an integral part of her deep and sole obsession to turn Barnabas back into a vampire. And by the time Nicholas took his revenge and turned Angelique into a vampire, she was even more under Nicholas' thumb and her only defiances involved satisfying her bloodlust with Jeff, using him to try to cure herself through the experiment, and making Barnabas hers by going after Barnabas despite Nicholas' insistence she stay away. Julia wasn't even a blip on her radar.

Angelique didn't next encounter Julia until 1897 - and then they were working together on Barnabas' behalf, so it would hardly have been to her benefit to harm Julia. And also, there was that little detail that only Julia's astral body was in 1897 and it was impervious to any attempts against it, as Petofi found out.

Angelique didn't encounter Julia again until Leviathans, and by then she had renounced her powers and wanted nothing to do with the Collinses. It wasn't until after she found out the truth about Sky that she rekindled them, and after doing so her obsession was revenge against the Leviathans. Having accomplished that, yes, she did turn her attentions back to Barnabas and she did cast a spell to break apart Barnabas and Maggie. But truthfully she didn't really have to attempt that because Barnabas' disappearance into Parallel Time was an even more effective breakup than even Angelique could have conjured up. And once Barnabas left the scene, apparently so did Angelique, possibly because no one had any way of knowing if Barnabas would ever return.

It wasn't until Angelique encountered Julia in 1840 that the perfect opportunity presented itself to harm her. And also, that Angelique was much more closely related to the Angelique of 1795/96 who lashed out at everyone around her. For the most part, the Angelique of 1897 and Leviathans had exhibited a much more mature persona.

[loril54]

Thank you for this. Very well stated.  Who knows what could of happened when they went back to 1971,
IMO, Barnabas and Julia would have been changing their relationship. If Angelique could have come back
who know what would have happened.  We might have had some great inter actions between Julia and Angelique. 

[Doug]

The one thing that always puzzled me is when Barnabas went back to 1897, Edith was supposed to
tell Edward the family secret. But she died before she had the chance, although Edward kept pleading
to her to tell him before she died. But later on, Edward, Judith, Carl and Quentin found out about the
family secret of Barnabas.

So I wonder did Edward tell Jamison the family secret and then did Jamison told Roger and Elizabeth?
Was it ever mentioned in the Colllins history about a Barnabas Collins in 1897?

[Brandon Collins]

It wasn't until Angelique encountered Julia in 1840 that the perfect opportunity presented itself to harm her. And also, that Angelique was much more closely related to the Angelique of 1795/96 who lashed out at everyone around her. For the most part, the Angelique of 1897 and Leviathans had exhibited a much more mature persona.

GASP! Are you saying, that after nearly 400 years, that Angelique was mature enough to live in the world freely?!

[Brandon Collins]

Well, I attempted to modify my above post, but apparently an "error" occured. SO:

What I was going to say in addition was that you raise a very vaild point, MB, in that Angelique never really had the chance to harm Julia until 1840, which by our timeline was late in her career, but by her timeline was still very early. But, I still think there was some sort of divine intervention, apart from the writers (because they clearly missed some dramatic gold!), because even though Angelique was under Nicholas' control for a while there, she didn't seem like the type to follow orders if it didn't suit her needs. I mean, it seems to me, anyway, like she disobeyed Diabolis a number of times, but when Nikolas was around, she followed him. So does that mean that Nicholas was more powerful than Diabolis, perhaps the Devil Incarnate?

[MagnusTrask]

Diabolos mopped the floor with Nicholas.

Anyway, it doesn't seem to me that very much time has passed for Angelique.   She pops around in time following Barnabas most of the time, and stays a few months in each location.  Add all that up and in 1897 it's not all that long since 1795 for her.    1795-1840 is a long stretch... but I don't have any idea how to reconcile that with the rest.    If we really want to place her back in the 17th century too, there's a long stretch between then and 1795, but that always seems wrong.

[Angelique Wins]

I was talking to a friend about this topic and she offered her idea  which I totally missed, having sort of a one-track mind when it comes to favorites on the show (gotta love me!), but I totally agree with her.

Having Beth fall off the cliff was REALLY, REALLY DUMB.     WHOEVER came up with this idea....WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? ? ?

Judy

[barnabasjr]

I was devastated by Beth's death. (say THAT 3 times) I really enjoyed her character, Terrayne Crawford did a wonderful job, and when she went over the cliff I was like WTF??!!

[IluvBarnabas]

Beth's death was definitely one of the most tragic ones in 1897. It seems that, even with history changed, she was destined to die no matter what (had Petofi not intervened, she would have shot Quentin and then commit suicide as her ghost had told Julia in 1969).

[MagnusTrask]

I like Beth too, but we can't just have all the people we like live.   If it was a matter of the way it was done, then practically all those dives off the cliff look awkward.

I'll add that there are deaths left and right as 1897 is winding up.    In a strange way i find that satisfying.

[Doug]

This is the thing I've always wanted to know, maybe some of you can answer this for me. In the
1840 storyline, Quentin's son is Tad. But did'nt Gabriel and Edith have children, if they do, what
is their names?

I remember during 1969 when David and Amy entered the West Wing trying to find the ghost
of Quentin, Amy asked David who is the man in the painting. David said that is Thaddeus Collins
and he lived during the Civil War. Could Thaddeus be the son of Gabriel and Edith?

[Midnite]

In the
1840 storyline, Quentin's son is Tad. But did'nt Gabriel and Edith have children, if they do, what
is their names?

Hi, Doug.  They had at least two.  Gabriel mentioned after Hortense's meltdown that the children (I think they were always referred to plurally) were sent away to school.  We know that at least one was a son since he would become the father of Judith, Edward, Quentin and Carl.

The names Geoffrey and Charles come up from time to time with partial origins in an essay by Warren Oddson.  Occasionally, the name Caleb (mentioned in the present as an ancestor who owned a certain house) gets added to the equation by fans, bringing the number of children to 3.  But just to be clear, the genders, first names, and total number of Gabriel's and Edith's children were never stated on the show.

I remember during 1969 when David and Amy entered the West Wing trying to find the ghost
of Quentin, Amy asked David who is the man in the painting. David said that is Thaddeus Collins
and he lived during the Civil War. Could Thaddeus be the son of Gabriel and Edith?

There's a topic from last year that may interest you.  It begins here:

i'm doing 1840...finally

Thaddeus enters the discussion at the bottom of p. 3.