it probably didn't even have the desired "shock" effect it was intended to. [snow_sad]
it was just kitchen-sink storytelling
they couldn't recast Paul's ghost?
It's true that he may not have really known Josette that well, but the real beneficiary of that realization would be Julia, I think. He's closer to Julia than anyone else. Ang would just be yet another passion he got carried away with.
There are so many, but bringing Roger Davis back as Ned was way up there. I can still remember his showing up at Collinwood and thinking "Not again."
Nothing else explains why such a weak actor was brought back to the DS canvas over & over!
Someone please create a justification for the idea that when Barnabas's real body disappears from 1969 while in the I Ching trance, that body materializes inside the coffin in 1897, and when he leaves 1897, his over-written 1897 soul pops back into the body that's now in the coffin. Or something.
Dan Curtis being impossible...Everything I see about him tells me I wouldn't like him. But if he hadn't been impossible, we wouldn't have had Dark Shadows at all. Good heavens, how many guys who did golf shows persuaded a programming manager to let them do a gothic soap opera?
Having skimped on the Damian Edwards story and gotten away with it, the writers were then emboldened to skimp on many other stories.
What about that yachting accident? What about Harriet's murder? And that's just the big stuff.
And, if you notice, Angelique never really did anything that bad to Julia. Compare what she did to Julia (practically nothing) to what she did to Barnabas' ACTUAL family, and it pales in comparison. All this even after Julia slapped the H-E-L-L out of Cassangelique! which called for some serious retribution!
brandon makes an interesting point...
by rights angelique should have turned julia into toast.she was in part responsible for the removal of her curse on barnabas and was always assisting him in some way.
let's not forget either that part of the curse was that anyone who loved barnabas would die and we all know how julia felt.
people seem to like to throw julia a pity party because barnabas never returned her feelings but considering what sort of catastrophes befell most of the other characters julia got off rather easily.
And as for the possibility of Angelique never really doing anything that bad to Julia that others have mentioned, perhaps some have forgotten a certain 1840 turn of events involving Angelique, Julia and Roxanne which nearly resulted in a dramatic change for Julia? Or perhaps some have yet to even see it...
Avoid Roxanne becoming a vampire in 1840, and you solve the problem of having to keep her in a coffin in 1970. Roxanne's death was one of the objectives, since even if she never became a vampire, she'd have died of old age well before 1970.But how did Roxanne originally become a vampire in 1840, if Julia wasn't there to let Barnabas out of his coffin? It's like an Escher picture.
Someone please create a justification for the idea that when Barnabas's real body disappears from 1969 while in the I Ching trance, that body materializes inside the coffin in 1897, and when he leaves 1897, his over-written 1897 soul pops back into the body that's now in the coffin. Or something.The Leviathans cleaned up that mess. And then Barnabas welshed on his end of the deal. Shame on him.
(who can forget the writer (and an excellent writer at that) who became so unsettled that he threw up under DC's pressure and quickly quit rather than work under it?)Like Gothick, I had never heard that story before. I don't know that it changes my opinion, however.
And personally when it comes to a lot of the shows that I watch I'm often happier not to have the writers spoon feed me and/or tie things up with a nice neat bow because it means the writers trust the intelligence of their audience.When it comes to Dark Shadows, I'm all for being spoon-fed. Bring it on.
I wish to retract something I said in my previous post on subject # 5: Adam. I said: “Concept good, execution bad.” Having watched episode 500 for the Watching Project, I have realized that I'm regularly seeing things in this storyline that I didn't see there before. I never particularly minded this part of the storyline; it's the later part that I objected to. And now I'm willing to entertain the possibility that there are things in the later part that I never noticed before, so I had better not condemn it until after the Watching Project has waded through it.
(who can forget the writer (and an excellent writer at that) who became so unsettled that he threw up under DC's pressure and quickly quit rather than work under it?)Like Gothick, I had never heard that story before. I don't know that it changes my opinion, however.
DC was brutal to work for. But supposedly, it was Lela who came up with the "Barnabas realizes Angelique is his one true love" reek.
You're not alone, Lori.
I too think that was the biggest boo-boo on the part of the writers....I could see Barnabas MAYBE forgiving her (and this is a big MAYBE considering all that she's done to him and his family) but loving her? Tsk, tsk, shame on whoever came up with that bright idea.
Doesn't my version work?
But if Angelique died n 1840 then we wouldn't Cassandra and her evil brother. Joe might marry Maggie and Sam might be alive.
I could go on a long time.
Yes the writers could have done something interesting with Adam and the connections between Barnabas and Adam. Adam never came back, what happened to Adam with Barnabas became a Vampire again?
They could have brought aback a different actor with the idea that Adam had plastic surgery.
How about Barnabas whet into to PT because he wanted to protect Maggie. If I remember correctly he
didn't attack Maggie during that period. I personally think he didn't want to attack another character.
Bits of what you've written are actually what was planned for when the show returned to 1971 after 1841PT. Unfortunately, though, it's not likely that if any of it had played out instead of 1841PT, DS would have lasted longer because the handwriting was already on the wall as far as DS coming to an end. Sadly, too many aspects of the show were already conspiring to bring it to an end. :( And if you do a search of the forum, you'll find several different topics that discuss what brought about its end.
Bits of what you've written are actually what was planned for when the show returned to 1971 after 1841PT.
Spoiler:
wasn't it also problematic to have Quentin's stairway destroyed? It would no longer be needed to travel to 1840 since another big haunting was averted. But I can't think of a reason to assume that the events of 1840 would prevent B & J's side trip to 1970 PT, so... when Julia and Barnabas return to RT but end up in 1995 instead, how would they get to 1970 if Desmond has destroyed the staircase? Wouldn't Barnabas or Julia realize, "Oh wait, we're going to need that thing one of these days to get back to our own time"?
Really? That whole Barn and Julia bit and going to Asia? That was part of it?
Which part of the forum
that discuss the ending of the show?
Angelique should've done MORE to her, since Julia obviously was smitten.
It wasn't until Angelique encountered Julia in 1840 that the perfect opportunity presented itself to harm her. And also, that Angelique was much more closely related to the Angelique of 1795/96 who lashed out at everyone around her. For the most part, the Angelique of 1897 and Leviathans had exhibited a much more mature persona.
In the
1840 storyline, Quentin's son is Tad. But did'nt Gabriel and Edith have children, if they do, what
is their names?
I remember during 1969 when David and Amy entered the West Wing trying to find the ghost
of Quentin, Amy asked David who is the man in the painting. David said that is Thaddeus Collins
and he lived during the Civil War. Could Thaddeus be the son of Gabriel and Edith?
i'm doing 1840...finallyThaddeus enters the discussion at the bottom of p. 3.
There's a topic from last year that may interest you. It begins here:i'm doing 1840...finallyThaddeus enters the discussion at the bottom of p. 3.
In the 30th Anniversary of the DS Almanac, it says that Gabriel and Edith have three children, only one of whom married (all of whom are labeled as "Unknown" including the married one's spouse).
So, it's possible, I would assume, that the "Thaddeus Collins" that David mentions, COULD be one of Gabriel's children.It had never occurred to me before that Gabriel might have named his son Tad too, and it would certainly it would fit his "If it's good enough for Quentin then by God it's good enough for me" personality.
The 30th Anniversary version of the Almanac is supposedly out of print. However, used and even new copies can be found for sale on places like Amazon.com: ...
along with the later Millennium Edition: ...
The family tree chart that Brandon refers to is included in both. However, it should be pointed out that not all the info in either version is infallible. But then, that's a shortcoming that can be said of every PomPress book. It shouldn't be the case - but it's the sad truth nonetheless. [ghost_sad]
This is the thing I've always wanted to know, maybe some of you can answer this for me. In the
1840 storyline, Quentin's son is Tad. But did'nt Gabriel and Edith have children, if they do, what
is their names?
I remember during 1969 when David and Amy entered the West Wing trying to find the ghost
of Quentin, Amy asked David who is the man in the painting. David said that is Thaddeus Collins
and he lived during the Civil War. Could Thaddeus be the son of Gabriel and Edith?
I feel as though I'm coming out of the closet here or something, but...I don't have a problem with Amanda.
Thaddeus could also be the given name of "Tad."
I didn't really have a problem with Amanda as a character. I thought her storyline was particularly interesting, actually. But I DID have a problem with her sudden paring with Quentin after Beth's death. It was like Beth never lived, like she and Quentin never had a relationship, like she basically never existed in this time band whatsoever! One thing I didn't like about Beth was that she was constantly screaming "QUUUEEENNNTIINNNN!!!!!!!!" over and over and over, and constantly worried about him. Talk about a Stage 5 Clinger!
I think if the writers had've given Amanda and Quentin...*
You're not alone because I don't have a problem with Amanda either. Actually, I've noticed that very few, if any, men have a problem with her. [ghost_wink]Umm...I'm not a man. Really I'm not.
And speaking of the Civil War, isn't there a tombstone in the Eagle Hill Cemetery that shows a Collins who died in 1863? A Civil War death? I remember making a note of it (I love collecting bits and pieces of trivia for my fan fiction) but I can't remember if the tombstone said Thaddeus or not. It's on my other computer which is apparently running in parallel time and I haven't been able to pinpoint when it phases into this time band to check my notes.
Don't crazy romances like Q and Amanda really happen? Don't nicer people like Beth get left behind? Don't nice guys really finish last?
You're not alone because I don't have a problem with Amanda either. Actually, I've noticed that very few, if any, men have a problem with her. [ghost_wink]Umm...I'm not a man. Really I'm not.
When Liz had her fear of being buried alive, she and Roger were in the cemetary by the grave of a
"Jonas Collins", whose birth year is given as 1841 I think and year of death is in the 1860's or 1870's.
Wasn't it Jonah?
Hmmm, Jonah was 23 meaning he was born in 1840. Could he have been one of Gabriel & Edith's sons?
Josette appearing to Barnabas and their deciding that after all this time they should let each other go. Even with KLS leaving the show, there was no need to end his obsession with her that was a major part of the way his character acted.
Josette appearing to Barnabas and their deciding that after all this time they should let each other go. Even with KLS leaving the show, there was no need to end his obsession with her that was a major part of the way his character acted.
If I can find some of those letters, I'll share one...
JOSETTE LOSING APPEAL?Dear Editiors:
I greatly enjoy After Noon TV and am happy to have found a TV magazine that is written and headlined in good taste and that appeals to an intelligent audience.
I am wondering if the writers of Dark Shadows realize that Josette has lost appeal to many D.S. viewers and has become almost a figurative character. Although she was an integral part of the story originally, it has since evolved into a more central theme in which Barnabas and Julia hold the spotlight as hero and heroine. I believe that most D.S. viewers idenitfy more strongly with these two and that their relationship should be emphasized, and that of Barnabas and Josette de-emphasized. Barnabas is living in the present now. Josette is part of his past but should not become a vaguely-defined future. Julia's love for Barnabas has already been established. Now it's time to make him deal with that love realistically. If this does not occur in the near future, I'm afraid many viewers will become frustrated and eventually disinterested. I have spoken to several people who feel this way--most of them teenagers.
Times Have Changed
Thank you for checking, AngelqueWins! [ghost_smiley]
1. Killing Angelique.
no explanation as to how this affected 1897, 1968 & 1970 stories.
2. Killing Edith.
see above.
3. Killing Roxanne.
see above.
4. No explanation as to how Gerard got so involved with Tad & Carrie, or how the kids were supposed to have died.
Even though a big deal was made of this in 1995 & summer 1970.
Did Curtis & the writers even care at this point?
After the brilliance of 1795 & 1897, & the sheer terror of 1995, 1840 was a disgrace.
A slap in the face to long time viewers.
And Magnus, you're tempting me practically irresistibly. How egregious a mistake would I have to make in order to shake your resolve?
Dear Editors:
... I am wondering if the writers of Dark Shadows realize that Josette has lost appeal to many D.S. viewers and has become almost a figurative character. Although she was an integral part of the story originally, it has since evolved into a more central theme in which Barnabas and Julia hold the spotlight as hero and heroine. I believe that most D.S. viewers idenitfy more strongly with these two and that their relationship should be emphasized, and that of Barnabas and Josette de-emphasized. Barnabas is living in the present now. Josette is part of his past but should not become a vaguely-defined future. Julia's love for Barnabas has already been established. Now it's time to make him deal with that love realistically. If this does not occur in the near future, I'm afraid many viewers will become frustrated and eventually disinterested. I have spoken to several people who feel this way--most of them teenagers.
Sam was blinded so that he could then become the blind old man from Frankenstein who befriends the monster. Sam was blinded then killed because of DS's insistence on stealing plots.
I'm right there with ya Lori. I never got the attraction between Barnabas and Roxanne, unless he was just attracted to her assets.
I don't know if somebody has already mentioned this before, but the one thing that I has always bothered
me is the main front door of Collinwood. I'm sure alot of you have noticed the outside of the front door is
always nearly covered with bushes, scrubs, tree limbs and vines. It looks like the front of Collinwood is nothing
but a forest there.
It would seem to me the production designers should have made the outside of the front door with front
steps and main drive way or maybe use a fake picture of a landscape when you see the characters walking
in.
Are we saying that the main entrance to the house is supposed to be on the back of the house? I'm slow tonight, maybe more so than I realize.