DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: MagnusTrask on January 14, 2007, 07:54:44 AM
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I've been watching this period for the first time since original airing. Comments:
Interesting how they made a point of making everything the same as 1967 when Victoria returned from 1795, for continuity, yet they sped ahead from that point on with updating the show, and improving 1968 to match the level of 1795. New characters, more clever dialogue (such as from Elliot Stokes... I didn't get any clue as to what a great character he is from 1970), bigger jolts, faster plot, and suddenly Julia is out of the frumpy ugly hair/clothing and becomes "herself" as I know and love her. It's as if they caught up abruptly with the time lost during the flashback, time that didn't pass for the characters but did for the real world. I got the impression of DS suddenly becoming "modern".
The Frankenstein plotline has yet to win me over. Doctor Who did it brilliantly, so it can be done. A lot of the dialogue has gone back to being too simple and awkward, such as between Lang and Barnabas, which goes against what I said earlier, but everything is mixed and confusing so far. I noticed JF is back to having more trouble with lines as before 1795... did he do it for continuity??
Maybe awkwardly said lines come from awkward or uncertain writing... maybe Frid was forced to keep stopping to think how he was going to deliver a line, because these new lines could be coming from a reforming character, or someone neutral, or someone who's still a villain... and the lines don't indicate any of this either way. I've noticed JF using a villainous tone when the line is pretty benign. One must blow lines if one has to stoip and think how to read them.
Lang... good pain acting.
All the photos from Caption This are coming to life before my eyes!
One episode break... Duelling Portraits! (Barnabas's and Angelique's)
[spoiler]With Barnabas's sudden cure, 'my' DS starts. I felt this especially when Roger was being drawn to Ang's portrait, to hurt Lang, with that music. I don't know why. Everything is smarter, really moves, is more vital.
As the Frankenstein monster's shroud is pulled away to show Barnabas, I instantly thought, Dracula Meets Frankenstein!
That "life force" idea worked back then, but it's now been used so often that it's become a lazy meaningless science-fiction premise. How handy, a vague something that can be yanked out of one body and into another, like pouring liquid from one bottle to another...
Couldn't Lang have just stuck Barnabas's "essence" into Clark's intact body, without the fleshy crazy-quilt Lang just had to build? How dare he claim to have created life, when he just took intact limbs and parts and organs and sewed them together? Sure, reanimating is hard, but that intricate biological "machinery" was already built, and Lang or Frankenstein wouldn't have known how to even begin to build any of it from scratch. Leave it to a doctor to steal God's (or who/whatever's) thunder.
Back later.
[/spoiler]
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When I said the dialogue was smarter, I meant smarter than 1967, pre-1795. Strangely enough, that sentence probably will not confuse a single person here who reads it. We're tempoally sophisticated people.
"I think that thinking about failure is a contemptible weakness."-- Lang.
Barnabas consults Julia as a "friend" about Lang... are they suddenly friends just because the script says so?
[spoiler]I was thinking... is Barnabas going through his moral conversion right there before my eyes, standing in the shadows listening to Victoria talking to Lang abouyt Jeff Clark? Yes! That was nice. He cried "enough"... great. A cheering moment. Too bad he's weaselling out a bit at the point where I've left off... with Julia trying to phone the police about Lang (in Lang's own house! Get out of the front door first, at least! And what a squeamish doctor... this was no mother or grandmother of Scully's, that's for certain!)![/spoiler]
Why are doctors like Lang and Julia, or Frankenstein, so driven to do experiments that trhey can never tell anyone about, that therefore they (and society) can never benefit from?
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It's no coincidence that the DS Companion refers to 1968 as that "Year of Madness." The writing became better(and more frantic) in many ways, but DC(God rest his soul) also put pressure on the writers for more twists and turns and excitement in the plot. The "cliffhanger a day" philosophy was at its peak in '68, the stories became complex enough so one had to watch nearly every day to keep up, and there were a plethora of classic horror-inspired characters to follow. For me, 1968 was the era that paved the way for 1897, and some of the best writing on the show. In truth, the success of the story of 1795 probably set the stage for the whole upswing in quality and pace, 1968 and 1897 included, removing DS from the ranks of a show that could be mistaken for an ordinary soap! 1968 is probably my second favorite era for all these reasons, behind 1897 and tied with 1967. In spite of 1795's innovations, I never got into it as much as the other eras I've mentioned. However, this certainly doesn't mean that I don't enjoy revisiting it from time to time!
Yes, it's true, 1968 provided us with some of the classic camp moments of the show (Lang's death scene and subsequent endless tape message, for instance), but it also provided us with some real memorable situations, like the machinations of Nicholas Blair, the beginning of the endless returns of Angelique, and Tom the Vampire and his Werewolf brother Chris. Whatever you think of the Adam story, it really opened the floodgates for so many of the supernatural characters, with problems far more dramatic that soap opera pregnancies and divorces, or little Jimmy getting acne. ;D Stokes was, indeed, a breath of fresh air at this point, and was a lightning rod for the wittier writing that would later dominate early 1897. At any rate, love that 1968!!
Petofi
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Actually, I just overloaded on Adam and the Dream Curse and I'll have to knock off for awhile. In the patch I'm in now, the writing and logic have gone into a tailspin. I'm now where Adam is trying to tell everyone about the taped message but can't yet (and... camp?? I don't see it). I see no addition to the Frankenstein story yet. When I was a kid, I was absorbing the old movies and new TV equivalents of those stories simultaneously. I could get involved in all, equally, I guess. It was all relatively new.
I never anticipated the Dream Curse being as bad as it is. These people must scream their lungs out and their hair must turn white each year when the little tykes come around for Trick-or-Treat. Good thing that doesn't happen, apparently. The Collinsport kids must have found out the hard way. Is this how Maggie found out they were "kooks"?
[spoiler]The first dream I could almost get behind, with a little help from my imagination. At the end, I imagined more scale, with a tiny silhouette of Maggie at the bottom of the screen from the back, with the green skull towering above her. They could have done that.[/spoiler]
Up until this point, for a long time, they had been telling a story they were anxious to tell-- Barnabas's. What he's like now, then how he got that way. It's a very compelling story. Then after 1795, this very long arc is over, and then it's no longer a matter of exploring this fascinating character's story, but... what do we do now? They didn't need something to "fill time" before. No story that you come up with out of thin air to keep a show going is going to be as compelling as one you're burning to tell.
Even from what little I know or have heard, I saw DCs fingerprints on the Adam story. Either this is the start of the twirling Rolodex, or it just was handled so well up until that point that one couldn't tell.
Later, they tried to reproduce the Barnabas arc with the Quentin arc, and that certainly worked, but they always seemed to be repeating on DS and trying to cover their tracks so people wouldn't notice, sometimes very well. John Lennon said they'd write songs at first by thinking of one they liked by someone else, then changing bits.
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I have a thought on the whole Dream Curse storyline. I imagine that while the imagery of the dream itself may not be what you'd call terrifying, it was the feeling of horror that came with it and built with each subsequent dreamer that was the real curse. There had to be something to trigger this feeling of unholy terror in your sleep, and a dream was the perfect vessel. Plus a dream is a great oral way to pass along the curse, you couldn't rightly say, I had a feeling of terror in my sleep last night, it wouldn't work. But by relaying the terror as images, it gives the next dreamer something to visualize even before they hit the sack.
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Well, the visuals ought to convey what the characters are experiencing to some extent.
As Julia's trying to phone the police--
BC: "Remember... someone."
Lang: "Dave Woodard." If Mr. Frid comes here and comes across this post, sorry to remind him of that. Maybe it's like the dream curse.... when i see moments like that, i just have to mention them to release some tension, or something. Also... BC says "Professor Strokes." Sorry, sorry.
They knew enough to let Lacy stop doing Peterson as Bogart.
I thought, I can't believe Barnabas is doing a bodyswap!
How is the Dream going to scare Barnabas, of all people?
Why doesn't Willie want harm to come to Barnabas?
Nameless thug cop: "You give a lot of orders."
ECS: "Yes, I do." When he appears the second time, I thought, he's getting his soon. He did.
No one has suspected Adam of Barnabas's old crimes, yet. They're fairly recent, still, for those who weren't whisked away to 1795 for a few months.
Adam is growing on me--- maybe they emphasized the innocence more than the Frankenstein movie did. Another monster whose creator is the real villain. He's learning violence from us. I like him. Widow's Hill: babies don't know falling hurts... maybe he just thought he was escaping.
Adam's intro to the story is silly, but now that he can speak a little and his presence is a fait accompli, he's growing on me.
I'm tired of transcribing these huge-lettered notes about episodes i saw days ago now... more later.
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As Julia's trying to phone the police--
BC: "Remember... someone."
Lang: "Dave Woodard." If Mr. Frid comes here and comes across this post, sorry to remind him of that.
If I were Dan Curtis, I'd have fired Addison Powell right then and there. Forgetting words and even whole lines was part and parcel of Dark Shadows, and usually the cast managed to get past it without making the proceedings totally asinine. But there Addison was, Mr. Helpful, Mr. Officious, and he just had to tell the world that he knew Frid's lines better than Frid did. And so he turned a difficult situation into a ridiculous one. All that was needed was for Grayson Hall to pitch in with, "You mean...?" and Frid to play along with, "Yes, that's EXACTLY what I mean!" and Hall finishes up by moaning, "Dave!" But no, little Addie had to show off. ("Little Addie." Real mature of me. Maybe I need to get a life?)
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Someone from Actors Equity should have shown up at the studio and demanded Addison Powell's Equity card, and then had him arrested for impersonating an actor. >:(
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Well, as I've mentioned before, a possible explanation for Powell's performances could be that it's actually the way the DS directors wanted him to play the part. They could have certainly reigned him in if they'd wanted to, so I find it hard to believe that most of what all the actors were doing wasn't at least with the directors' blessings, if not their actual designs. Just think of how shocked some of us might be if we ever learned that Lela Swift and John Sedwick were actually in the rehearsal room telling Powell that his performance wasn't broad enough and to take it up a notch. :o [wink2]
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Well, I hope like hell that was not the case. Because if it was, I would assume such direction indicated complete disdain for the audience.
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ya know what? as much as I LOVE the 1795 storyline & the 1897 storyline. i think with the success of THOSE Great stories. DC & the writers or WHOVER thought of this storyline or that storyline, they got TOO Carried away with the traveling through time & The Parrell time. did i spell that right? & also i agree repeating the same storyline. the kids got possed 2 or 3 times at LEAST! HOW many times can you do that? even so it's STILL a great show. & the last storyline that they did alwys felt to me when i 1st saw it on sci-fi a few years ago. i've been a fan since (1998) i think it was? anwys, it feels unfinished & rushed. they knew they got cancelled & i think ran out of ideas on HOW To end the show. so they said what the hell let's just do this & that & than just END IT! anyone disagree or agree with me?
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All that was needed was for Grayson Hall to pitch in with, "You mean...?" and Frid to play along with, "Yes, that's EXACTLY what I mean!" and Hall finishes up by moaning, "Dave!"
Not to belittle Frid, 'cause I *do* think the guy's got talent, but he himself admits to being a 'slow-study' and frankly, he never seemed to be the kind of actor who could 'think on his feet' and recover from a flub like say, Louie Edmonds can. I can't think of a single time where he just winged it and ad-libbed while staying in character. Instead, he'd nervously wring his hands, search for the teleprompter and stutter. Not really a flaw, just some actors can do it and some can't. Frid seems to be the type that can't. Just my 2 pesos... ;)
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***SPOILERS LITTERED THROUGHOUT***
I love most storylines about DS. They all have their good and bad qualities. Albeit, some have BADDER BAD qualities (lol) than others. 1968 started out just fine. The Dream Curse was an inspiried idea (as we have said in another thread appropriately titled "Dream Curse"). But it got old after person AFTER person AFTER person continued to have the dream. Sure, ol' Ang. wanted to have everyone involved, but if you get too many people on a little boat, the boat is bound to sink. The best thing about it was the end when Vicki and Barnabas were fighting about Vicki telling or not telling the dream to him--as others have said elsewhere.
As for Adam. *SIGH* I lilked the story at first. It was nice. Adam was all innocent and mumbly. Couldn't say a word. I even found it humorous when Barnabas would say "You said my name! What a good little boy! Not Aunty Grayson--uh, uh, I mean Julia will come and give you a cigarette!" (OKay, so he didn't really say that, but his babying of Adam was quite a different place for EVIL Barnabas to go, ya know? He's supposed to be all mean and junk). Adam's storyline got dragged down by the not-so-lovely Dr. Lang, and hiis infamous "If both live" tape. However, fun was reinfused into the situation when Angelique returned as Nicholas Blair's play thing. Unfortunately for Adam, again, fun was SUCKED out of the storyline when Nicholas poked and prodded Adam to threaten and kill his way to a mate, only to have her reject him. BOO. And the whole thing with Peter Bradford knowing her, that was just really awful.
As for b.collins' post about DCP wanting to just END somehow, I was under the impression (and my impressions tend to change with the winds) that they were attempting to go into 1840 and later 1841PT because time travel storylines tended to be some of their higher ratings and they were attempting to recover.
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If I were Dan Curtis, I'd have fired Addison Powell right then and there. Forgetting words and even whole lines was part and parcel of Dark Shadows, and usually the cast managed to get past it without making the proceedings totally asinine. But there Addison was, Mr. Helpful, Mr. Officious, and he just had to tell the world that he knew Frid's lines better than Frid did.
I don't think that was necessarily the case. Powell was most likely just trying to save/recover the scene just as others actors had and would do whenever Frid flubbed. In fact, one of my favorite such incidents from 1970PT is discussed in this topic:
The May 20th Episodes - Classic Blooper Expertly Covered
I also don't think it's necessarily a big deal that Lang knew about Woodard. It was clearly established that Barn was telling Lang about his history. So, even though we didn't see it, it doesn't necessarily follow that Barn didn't at some point explain to Lang what had happened to Woodard.
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I adore Frid most of the time but he's pretty darn awful in 1968. I've been glancing at one of those tapes and am astounded just how lost and baffled Frid looks. Normally his line-flubbing doesn't bother me a bit, but in 1968 he barely seems to be cognizant of his surroundings. Maybe it was sheer exhaustion by that point.
In comparison, Humbert Astredo is marvelous as the oily Nicholas Blair and definately the high-point of 1968 but, then again, he was fresh on the scene and probably didn't have the pressures Frid had. Also, in all fairness .. Barnabas must have been a trying and difficult role to play, both physically and emotionally. Maybe the brilliance of his 1795 performances took everything out of him. I mean, it couldn't have been easy.
I find 1968 spotty and unpleasant because Frid's not at his best. Though I can get into Nicholas Blair and his relationship with Maggie and his devilish bantering with the even more lethal Angelique (still think she's the real monster of DS). Robert Rodan is a fine actor and I like Adam's relationship with Carolyn. NOT into warewolf stuff or experiments but there is some good casting in Don B. and his sister Amy but I agree that the guy who played Dr. Lang is terrible.
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I adore Frid most of the time but he's pretty darn awful in 1968.
ITA Stefan. '68 was brutal and you have an excellant point that Frid was probably just FRIED after 1795! Who could blame him? He did his best work ever on DS in 1795, 2nd would be 1841 PT. ;)
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ya know what? as much as I LOVE the 1795 storyline & the 1897 storyline. i think with the success of THOSE Great stories. DC & the writers or WHOVER thought of this storyline or that storyline, they got TOO Carried away with the traveling through time & The Parrell time. did i spell that right? & also i agree repeating the same storyline. the kids got possed 2 or 3 times at LEAST! HOW many times can you do that? even so it's STILL a great show. & the last storyline that they did alwys felt to me when i 1st saw it on sci-fi a few years ago. i've been a fan since (1998) i think it was? anwys, it feels unfinished & rushed. they knew they got cancelled & i think ran out of ideas on HOW To end the show. so they said what the hell let's just do this & that & than just END IT! anyone disagree or agree with me?
It's good to see you on the boards at last, B.Collins! ;) You're welcome to begin a topic introducing yourself on the Calendar Announcements / Events '07 board, or to begin a discussion with your thoughts about other storylines here on Current Talk. There are also several topics on the end of DS that you can discover while reading archived boards or using the Search feature. Here's one such recent topic:
Who was upset that DS ended in 1840 PT?
However, this topic is about the 1968 storyline, so it's probably not the best place in which to pose your question. Thanks!
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I don't know, I thought Jonathan was brilliant all throughout the show (not counting messing up on lines which is forgivable under the circumstances), but I agree the Barnabas/Adam angle was not one of the better stories they came up for him. I mean I did like Adam (when he wasn't threatening to kill people that was) but the whole storyline I definitely wouldn't put it high up there with Barnabas' arrival or the time travelling stories, which I absolutely adore each and every one of them.
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Not to belittle Frid, 'cause I *do* think the guy's got talent, but he himself admits to being a 'slow-study' and frankly, he never seemed to be the kind of actor who could 'think on his feet' and recover from a flub like say, Louie Edmonds can. I can't think of a single time where he just winged it and ad-libbed while staying in character. Instead, he'd nervously wring his hands, search for the teleprompter and stutter. Not really a flaw, just some actors can do it and some can't. Frid seems to be the type that can't. Just my 2 pesos... ;)
I don't think "talent" had anything to do with it. Frid's extensive experience with classical theatre training and performances were not useful when it came to doing DS. One doesn't "wing" Shakespeare, nor does one "ad lib" it. If Barnabas had ever had occasion to quote long passages of the Bard, I'm sure Frid would have been brilliant!
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From my notes again:
I wanted early Adam who can't speak to be next in line for the Dream. He appears at someone's door, then tries to grunt his way through the poem...
Nice human point of view starting with 1968, not just with Adam's more sympathetic portrayal (than I remember from the Universal "monster movie" that didn't emphasize this quite as much did it? I haven't seen it since I was a kid), that I must have identified with as a child mutant in suburbia, but also with the backstory of Ben Stokes becoming literate and his descendant becoming a professor, running circles around everyobody logically. Very validating and empowering message built into the foundations of the program. The outsiders really get it more than the powers that be.
Stokes in Ang's Dream... that's my kind of hero, right there! Smiting with his wits and smartassedness!
E Stokes has Petofi's pinky thing. I thought that was an acting choice, to make the Hand creepier.
I wrote this: "I think Thayer David just walked into the credits!" He should have stayed in character and just not given a damn.
The major life lesson of DS... you CAN tell a lie and get away with it forever! (Stokes never finds out about BC.)
What's that huge bony fan coming out of Trask's elbow?
Elliot Stokes=Doctor Who?
Trask: "You are the witch I've been seeking!" Cass should have said "Took you long enough bonehead!" I did.
Interesting, if BC were to start a heartfelt conversation with ECS as Naomi.
Tower Room smaller inside than out. Dr Who really is around.
Nicholas Blair!
I had to creep through NBs big entrance to find the Caption This! capture where Roger vomits into Nick's hat, or so I made it out to be.
"I don't have little vices, Mr. Collins!"
NB looking for sign of Ang's existence... then sudden Angelique theme music, loud... Blair or Astredo looks up in response... and it stops when NB names the wrong place to find her. Only instance I know of, where the character can actually hear the background music!
In death, no one came along to disillusion Trask about his being a man of God... like, maybe.... God?! Where does Trask hang out? If not Heaven, has he stopped to think about why he's not there?
I'm missing a tape around this point, where NB interacts with Ang as Cassandra. Adam's well spoken suddenly. Tom Jennings pops into the story and gets bitten. More later.
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He did a lot of plays that were not Shakespeare but, still, there are actors who do not ad-lib well if at all. I've known plenty of them and have been left on stage looking at another actor who probably couldn't even remember his own name at different points. Fortunately, I can ad-lib pretty well. ;D
Early and live television is not a medium for those actors who can't ad lib or learn lines quickly. You can be a brilliant actor but suck as an ad libber. 8) If you're experience in television is limited and you wind up being the lead actor on a daily show, I cannot even imagine what that must be like.
Nancy
I don't think "talent" had anything to do with it. Frid's extensive experience with classical theatre training and performances were not useful when it came to doing DS. One doesn't "wing" Shakespeare, nor does one "ad lib" it. If Barnabas had ever had occasion to quote long passages of the Bard, I'm sure Frid would have been brilliant!
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I don't doubt that at all. Peter Miner commented to me and in another interview that one of the reasons he found the DS set such a nightmare was the pressure to always come up with something bigger and every day have something "big" happen. It was a chaotic set even though KLS tends to want to paint it like a day in DisneyWorld. Lara Parker commented in a Q&A in 1986 and throughout the years that the directors pushed the actors to go over the top because the dialogue and situation was over the top. She told this story in a funny way too.
Nancy
Well, as I've mentioned before, a possible explanation for Powell's performances could be that it's actually the way the DS directors wanted him to play the part. They could have certainly reigned him in if they'd wanted to, so I find it hard to believe that most of what all the actors were doing wasn't at least with the directors' blessings, if not their actual designs. Just think of how shocked some of us might be if we ever learned that Lela Swift and John Sedwick were actually in the rehearsal room telling Powell that his performance wasn't broad enough and to take it up a notch. :o [wink2]
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The popularity of DS in its day and the pressure on Frid to do publicity for the show and be the lead on the show too (and for a private person to lose almost all his privacy) was enough for him to never a repeat of it. He's mentioned that several times he never wanted to go back to that kind of life. It was a novelty for him at first but certain things got old very quickly.
Nancy
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I'm starting to feel as if part of the actor's job may have been to ignore directors. The actors with integrity, that is.
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I'm starting to feel as if part of the actor's job may have been to ignore directors. The actors with integrity, that is.
You can MAYBE do that if you are established on a show and one of the reasons people watch it but not if you are journeyman actor type as Mr. Powell was. If he ignored the direction it was grounds for getting fired that even the union might not be able to help him with. :'(
Nancy
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Interesting, Nancy!
Magnus, I am really (really!) enjoying your fresh perspective of the eps. :D
Tower Room smaller inside than out. Dr Who really is around.
Hee hee! I'm so glad I got into the new series because I wouldn't have understood this before last year.
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You can MAYBE do that if you are established on a show and one of the reasons people watch it but not if you are journeyman actor type as Mr. Powell was. If he ignored the direction it was grounds for getting fired that even the union might not be able to help him with. :'(
I was thinking of Lara apparently having had to endure direction to go over the top because some directors seem (just from what was said on this thread)not to have DS so seriously.
I've heard that the actors on Star Trek: Voyager had to fight to keep their characters viable.
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I'm not sure what it was, Magnus. I got the impression from production personnel who gave interviews and/or attended DS Fests that DC pushed and pushed for bigger, better and stronger stuff each day to the point where all logic went out the window. Production people left because of it. Lara Parker has said during Q&As directors - such as Henry Kaplan - would even scold her, directing her to make the dialogue "faster, stronger."
LP told the story that many actors came to DS believing in realistic acting and would say "Go back to your grave" in a very sincere, realistic way. She said that no matter what acting school anyone came from, they wound up doing their role in the "DS style" which was "tense, wild eyed" and the line would then come out as 'GO BACK TO YOUR GRAVE." You would see the white of the eyes. The acting was good because the situations on the show frequently were so ridiculous and to say lines with a straight face was an achievement. I often admired Frid watching BC talk about I-Ching, the supernatural and all the ins and outs of it all and now knowing that JF doesn't believe in anything supernatural and things anything relating to the occult is silly. But he said those crazy lines about the supernatural with a straight face.
I was thinking of Lara apparently having had to endure direction to go over the top because some directors seem (just from what was said on this thread)not to have DS so seriously.
I've heard that the actors on Star Trek: Voyager had to fight to keep their characters viable.
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Magnus, I am really (really!) enjoying your fresh perspective of the eps. :D
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Hee hee! I'm so glad I got into the new series because I wouldn't have understood this before last year.
Midnite... you know, i might really believe you if you'd put a fourth or fifth "really" in there! (j/k j/k) Thanks!
Strange, I started with Dr Who fandom twenty years ago.
When I first started to be able to say I did this or that "twenty years ago", it was kind of cool. Now.... not so much.
*******
Thanks for that, Nancy.
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I'm missing a tape around this point, where NB interacts with Ang as Cassandra.
Apologies. Maybe I'll come across it someday.
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there are actors who do not ad-lib well if at all. Early and live television is not a medium for those actors who can't ad lib or learn lines quickly. You can be a brilliant actor but suck as an ad libber. If you're experience in television is limited and you wind up being the lead actor on a daily show, I cannot even imagine what that must be like.
Yeah, this is what I mean, he could act, but when he went up it was painful to watch. I believe he said in an article once that "doing that show every day was like jumping off a cliff, but I had to do it." He did the best he could being relatively new to the world of TV, but it must have sucked to have to do 2-4 new 'plays' every week w/little to no rehersal and no chance for retakes when a mistake was made. The best example of his frustration at himself w/going up is the scene in 1795 when [spoiler]Barnabas confronts Josette about her running off w/Jeremiah and he went up.[/spoiler]I like how he 'bargained' w/DC to fix that scene, almost unheard of on DS! ;)
Then add the fact that he'd sometimes work 3, 4, even 5 days a week, then have to fly all over the country doing PR appearances for the show on weekends. When did the poor man sleep and have any kind of social life? Guess it's a good thing he *wasn't* married 'cause I imagine a wife would have kicked him to the curb, LOL! I read another article/interview he gave where he said he was so busy working and doing PR that he didn't even have time for the boring things in life like paying bills and doing laundry. He went on to say that more than once he found he had to wear a bathing suit for underwear 'cause he was out of clean underwear, LOL! Mind you, this was in one of the teen rags that are famous for BS articles, so who knows if that was really true.
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Actually, that sounds entirely plausible which is why JF wound up hiring someone to handle his personal affairs and prepare dinner for him at home. I can see his waking up one morning and realizing he didn't have clean undies, lol.
Nancy
He went on to say that more than once he found he had to wear a bathing suit for underwear 'cause he was out of clean underwear, LOL! Mind you, this was in one of the teen rags that are famous for BS articles, so who knows if that was really true.
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I think that is why John wanted to have someone come in. Being in so many episodes and doing promotions. John might have just been burned out. The whole show was dependant on him and no other.
Lori
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I think that is why John wanted to have someone come in. Being in so many episodes and doing promotions. John might have just been burned out. The whole show was dependant on him and no other. Lori
I also feel that Frid is essentially a theatre actor who has concentrated bursts of focus and energies but could not consistently sustain the same quality within the framework Dark Shadows provided. It was just too much for him. That's why I so appreciate the small snippets when he was terrific. I think that's all pretty obvious so I cut him lots of slack. He was never a soap actor but, the guy had to make a living.
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Not to belittle Frid, 'cause I *do* think the guy's got talent, but he himself admits to being a 'slow-study' and frankly, he never seemed to be the kind of actor who could 'think on his feet' and recover from a flub like say, Louie Edmonds can. I can't think of a single time where he just winged it and ad-libbed while staying in character. Instead, he'd nervously wring his hands, search for the teleprompter and stutter. Not really a flaw, just some actors can do it and some can't. Frid seems to be the type that can't. Just my 2 pesos... ;)
I have to disagree. Frid was a phenomenal actor, and you've given him some credit for that. However, he was a classically-trained stage actor, and this was a new genre for him. Soap actors will tell you that they virtually have to do a play a day, a pretty daunting challenge for any actor.
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I have to disagree. Frid was a phenomenal actor, and you've given him some credit for that. However, he was a classically-trained stage actor, and this was a new genre for him. Soap actors will tell you that they virtually have to do a play a day, a pretty daunting challenge for any actor.
The "ad-libbing" comments are interesting. I'm not sure if the ability to ad-lib has all that much to do with acting talent. Obviously, as a soap actor, it's very helpful. I've read that Tony Geary from General Hospital ad-libs all over the place. However, I was also reading how Art Carney, the great TV and movie actor from "The Honeymooners" could not ad-lib and hated that when he was on stage for the original "Odd Couple" Walter Matthau (who played Oscar to Carney's Felix) tended to ad-lib which that would really throw him off balance with his own acting. Apparently, it was this reason he wasn't too keen on playing with Matthau in the movie version. Jack Lemmon got that project. I totally respect and admire Art Carney's talent, he's the best. So, can't really say that ad-libbing is a sign of credible acting ability. It's just a quirk some people can do and some can't.
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Ad libbing is a skill and there are plenty of excellent actors who are not good at it. It has nothing to do with talent.
The "ad-libbing" comments are interesting. I'm not sure if the ability to ad-lib has all that much to do with acting talent. Obviously, as a soap actor, it's very helpful. I've read that Tony Geary from General Hospital ad-libs all over the place. However, I was also reading how Art Carney, the great TV and movie actor from "The Honeymooners" could not ad-lib and hated that when he was on stage for the original "Odd Couple" Walter Matthau (who played Oscar to Carney's Felix) tended to ad-lib which that would really throw him off balance with his own acting.
Carney was a brilliant ad libber but was not in top form in "The Odd Couple" partly because of his health. Though its public knowlege in several Carney biographies, he had a very difficult time with the play, and the constant tension didn't help his state of mind any. The play was being re-written or acts and large chunks of dialogue would change from day to day as the play toured. But Carney's health problems really crippled him during that run.
Nancy
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In the biography of Art Carney I read, the author said that Carney's behavior became erratic during the run of The Odd Couple and he wound up dropping out of the show, spending the next six to eight months in a place that is what we would consider a rehab. That's why I indicated earlier his health was a serious problem and figured into decisions he was making about his work. Carney's wife left had left him due to his alcoholism (they remarried years later when he got sober) and Carney suffered a nervous breakdown. Obviously his coping skills were sorely tested with the ongoing rewrite of The Odd Couple as they moved from city to city on their tour. Carney was known to just suddenly "disappear" for a night or two during a binge even if he was working. Fortunately, he got help and was able to turn things around in his personal and professional life.
Nancy
Apparently, it was this reason he wasn't too keen on playing with Matthau in the movie version. Jack Lemmon got that project. I totally respect and admire Art Carney's talent, he's the best. So, can't really say that ad-libbing is a sign of credible acting ability. It's just a quirk some people can do and some can't.
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Ad libbing is a skill and there are plenty of excellent actors who are not good at it. It has nothing to do with talent.
Carney was a brilliant ad libber but was not in top form in "The Odd Couple" partly because of his health. Though its public knowlege in several Carney biographies, he had a very difficult time with the play, and the constant tension didn't help his state of mind any. The play was being re-written or acts and large chunks of dialogue would change from day to day as the play toured. But Carney's health problems really crippled him during that run.
Really!! I think I must have read the same info. My understanding was that Carney liked to play roles by the book without ad-libbing and that Matthau was the opposite. Though, by watching the Honeymooners there appears to be lots of ad-libbing but I doubt there was. I could be wrong though, I'll have to look this up. I also knew Carney had drinking problems etc. but not sure what that has to do with ad-libbing pro or con.
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I have to disagree. Frid was a phenomenal actor, and you've given him some credit for that. However, he was a classically-trained stage actor, and this was a new genre for him. Soap actors will tell you that they virtually have to do a play a day, a pretty daunting challenge for any actor.
I think you missed the point of my post adamsgirl, I wasn't criticizing Frid, just pointing out that he didn't seem able to ad-lib like several of his co-stars could when a line was forgotten. As for the fact that he was classically trained, that really has nothing to do w/whether one can or can't recover from going up. Both Johnny Karlen and Louie Edmonds were classicly trained stage/theater actors as well and they could cover thier mistakes much easier than Frid could, epecially Edmonds, so how an actor is trained really has nothing to do with how one can or can't cover a flubbed line well.
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can't really say that ad-libbing is a sign of credible acting ability. It's just a quirk some people can do and some can't.
Yep, this was my point exactly! Some can, some can't. Has nothing to do w/one being a better actor, just a separate talent. ;)
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Funny, recently I got two tapes of the Art Carney movies "The Late Show" and "Harry and Tonto". And I think the word would be "bender".
More notes.
I got the idea of the "pocket in time" before Ang brought it up (with Vickie).
Stokes/Petofi-- opposite equivalents? Both have that irony, that running inner commentary that they can't help voicing, always separate from the world, observing from the outside at a distance. Stokes may be the most identifiable DS character for me. Or that's just a passing impression.
Why not question Adam's plan, such as... perhaps you could wait longer than a couple months after being born, to decide your dating days are over.
To find your community vampires, look in the vicinity of roosters.
The Fly landed on a telephone, and the telephone went on with the scene like a trouper.
Willie is just about the only thing grounding this storyline.
Do they even have a meat locker at the Old House? What about the smell? Is that why the dogs are howling?
Fine line maybe between larger acting to suit larger story, and over-the-top. Some directors may have been going for the former but some actors may not have seen the distinction.
Is the Blue Whale built on a pier jutting out into the bay?
Are those wolf howls made by humans or wolves? Are they on a tape, or do guys offstage howl? Why do I join them sometimes?
Julia certainly seems to consider a fully-stocked bar to be a crucial part of the reanimation process. Her equipment consists almost entirely of a million different colored liquids. I tried to find some red stuff so I could say Julia enjoys sex-on-the-beach, but failed. I'm two years old. Maybe she's going to pour all those hundreds of gallons of pretty liquids into the monster, and she'll come to live all soggy. And hung over.
Tom tried to bite the camera or Julia's eyeball.
More later. No apology necessary of course, Lydia, thanks cubed, but if you find it, I'd love to have it please.
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As a Honeymooner fan, I can tell you for certain there was a lot of ad libbing on The Honeymooners. Gleason was a pro at it and Carney the same way. The "hello ball!" is an example of ad libbing Carney did.
Alcohol on the brain can slow your response time down not just physically but mentally as well which is how it can affect your ability to do something well you normally can do such as ad libbing. If your confidence is shot, that can also your ability to be snappy and think quickly.
Nancy
Really!! I think I must have read the same info. My understanding was that Carney liked to play roles by the book without ad-libbing and that Matthau was the opposite. Though, by watching the Honeymooners there appears to be lots of ad-libbing but I doubt there was. I could be wrong though, I'll have to look this up. I also knew Carney had drinking problems etc. but not sure what that has to do with ad-libbing pro or con.
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Stokes/Petofi-- opposite equivalents? Both have that irony, that running inner commentary that they can't help voicing, always separate from the world, observing from the outside at a distance.
I've thought the same thing, Magnus. Both are extremely intelligent, witty, articulate, strong personalities who are knowledgeable about the Occult and seem to have a hand in every matter at Collinwood, but the professor is clearly a force for good while Petofi is solely evil. Petofi is the flip-side of Prof. Stokes, a closer evil parallel of the character than Parallel Tim Stokes.
ProfStokes
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This has nothing to do with anything that has been talked about, but I just had to share ...
I am watching Dream Curse/Adam for the first time and so far my favorite bit comes when Joe and Maggie are arguing about the earrings. Joe is been very jealous and childish and quips that maybe they ought to cancel their dinner plans. Whereupon Maggie, without missing a beat, says "Or maybe find a place that serves baby food."
I paused the dvd and must have howled (with laughter, not with the dogs) for about five minutes! ZING!!!!!
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Whereupon Maggie, without missing a beat, says "Or maybe find a place that serves baby food."
I paused the dvd and must have howled (with laughter, not with the dogs) for about five minutes! ZING!!!!!
I agree - that is a great zinger, Nelson. [lghy] One of the final glimpses of the Maggie of old before she became vickified. ::)
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Does anyone else hear the "Jeopardy!" final round music when watching the various characters opening the doors in the dreams ....?
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Men! Especially Jeff Clark....Geez,
[spoiler]his resistance to the idea that he is Peter Bradford is not only frustrating for me, but incredibly insulting to Vicky. I am just at the point where the ghost of Trask attempts to warn Vicky of Nicholas Blair when Jeff walks in and recognizes him, then gets a headache and blocks it out or denies it happened. Grief, he has no idea who he is, can find no evidence of his existence in the present, and rants about how he has nothing and is nothing, but then refuses to to explore all the options open to him and insults Vicky in the process by is refusal to believe it and claim it as nonsense. Peter at least loved her and accepted who she was, even swore he'd find a way to be with her again. It seems odd the writers would not have left this inkling in Jeff's mind as well.[/spoiler]
oh, and speaking of which
[spoiler]Interesting bit with Trask's ghost. I like that while he may be a zealot and a hypocrite and vengeful (Barn's Mock trial), at least he does seem to actually be a "man of God" and able to successfully exorcise and/repel real evil doing witches...He even appears to Vicky to warn her of Blair. That has changed him in my books as the best and "least corrupt" of the Trask clan. Good show, reverend.[/spoiler]
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Stokes to Adam: "You know you're rather lucky in a way... at least you don't have to endure the indignity of listening to lectures by people who are vastly inferior to you."
[spoiler]I'm not sure it was wise for Mrs. J to talk to the Collins family about her hairy johnson. It probably would have been best to deal with it all quietly, through surgery and electrolysis.[/spoiler]
Jeff: "They've got all of Lang's equipment down here... and all of his instruments.... " (and all of his booze!--- that's what the hundred beakers of colored liquids always look like to me.)
Tom is one crappy overacting vampire. He was a millimeter away from going "Bleh! I vant to suck yor blahd!!"
If sunlight destroys vampires, shouldn't opening the coffin with a window uncovered do that just by itself w/o staking?
Tony P, holding regular Carolyn, then in replay of scene next day, Diana Walker: "Everything has gotten complex, hasn't it?" Yes... you're cheating on Carolyn with a different Carolyn!
The reanimation equipment... nice beat! Someone get that on a tape for Captain Hollister! (That's for arashi.)
"There are many secrets at the great estate of Coillinwood. Secrets that sometimes demand action... and one of them lies on an operating table in an old house on the estate. It is a lifeless body which may someday walk. And on this night, an attempt is being made to bring it alive... but by a man who does not have the right to do it... using a woman who knows she must give life to the body, in order to escape the punishment to which she has been sentenced. And if they succeed, they will create more terrible problems than they have solved." Thanks, I'm totally up to speed now! Written thirty seconds before broadcast, maybe?
Barnabas orders Jeff Clark to "get out!" of the laboratory, then Jeff grabs a little blue pillow off of Angelique's slab, and is about to take it upstairs with him... then thinks better of it, and throws it away. "Fine, Barnabas... you don't want my help?! Well, in that case, I'll just take this little blue pillow and LEAVE!!!" He was considering holding it for ransom, I just know it....
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"... and one of them lies on an operating table in an old house on the estate. It is a lifeless body which may someday walk. And on this night, an attempt is being made to bring it alive... but by a man who does not have the right to do it... using a woman who knows she must give life to the body, in order to escape the punishment to which she has been sentenced. And if they succeed, they will create more terrible problems than they have solved."
So is THAT how Orville Redenbacher was brought back to life? ;)
Thanks, I'm totally up to speed now! Written thirty seconds before broadcast, maybe?
Heh, heh!
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So is THAT how Orville Redenbacher was brought back to life? ;)
Did that happen? Well, good for him! You can't keep a good man down!
It's sinking in more as the hours go by, what a nightmare of junior high school writing that intro was!
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[spoiler]Interesting bit with Trask's ghost. I like that while he may be a zealot and a hypocrite and vengeful (Barn's Mock trial), at least he does seem to actually be a "man of God" and able to successfully exorcise and/repel real evil doing witches...He even appears to Vicky to warn her of Blair. That has changed him in my books as the best and "least corrupt" of the Trask clan. Good show, reverend.[/spoiler]
Yeah I must admit as much as I hated the original Reverend Trask, he did redeem himself somewhat after death by [spoiler]going after Cassandra and attempting to do away with her.
But first he had to get that revenge out of his system and bricked up Barnabas! GRRRR!!!!! Hey, I know Barnabas did the same thing to him, but what Trask trying to murder him wasn't for the good of God, it was an act of cold blooded murder, as Julia said. You'd think he'd get that through his thick skull after 200 years!
Well at least Trask did at least attempt to right the wrongs by exorcising Cassandra....too bad Nicholas underminded this by bringing Cassandra back....I guess even in death, Trask's incantations and exorcisms are no match for the power of black magic.[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]Interesting bit with Trask's ghost. I like that while he may be a zealot and a hypocrite and vengeful (Barn's Mock trial), at least he does seem to actually be a "man of God" and able to successfully exorcise and/repel real evil doing witches...He even appears to Vicky to warn her of Blair. That has changed him in my books as the best and "least corrupt" of the Trask clan. Good show, reverend.[/spoiler]
Right you are Nelson! [spoiler]Even Jerry Lacy will point out that of all the Trasks, at least Trask #1 truly BELIEVED he was doing right, he wasn't a hypocrit like the other 2.[/spoiler]
Me personally, I love PT Trask! Who knew?! [spoiler]A NICE Trask! Quite a contrast to all the RT Trasks![/spoiler] ;)
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So is THAT how Orville Redenbacher was brought back to life? ;)
Did that happen? Well, good for him! You can't keep a good man down!
Heh. Yes, he's in new commercials though he died over 10 years ago. It was done digitally and is darn creepy.
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Yes, he's in new commercials though he died over 10 years ago. It was done digitally and is darn creepy.
Honestly, I can't believe his family allowed it. It's more than creepy! It's macabre!
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Yes, he's in new commercials though he died over 10 years ago. It was done digitally and is darn creepy.
After you die, other people get to own and control you. Ask Barnabas.
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I also liked the PT Trask. I kept wanting him (and still do) to go around and profess his love for the Goddess Angelique, and say that he will seek out an evil doers that go against her and punish them as devilworshippers should be punished!
As for the other two...
Rev. Trask circa 1795 was one I wanted to throw in the river with a bag of bricks. His [spoiler]warning Vicki about Nicholas and capturing Cassandra redeemed him somewhat, but I still hate him.[/spoiler]
And as for Greg Trask, I wonder if MJ became a fan during that part of the show?
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This is my first foray into the this part of the show.
Vicky is really irritating me right now. [spoiler]She's trapped in Nicholas' house pounding on the door "help help what's going to happen to me?" I keep wanting to slap her and shout "STOP WHINING YOU NITWIT!" and what a lovely and deep voice the deputy that came to see Nicholas had. The hunky one that Ang nearly put the bite on.[/spoiler]
Speaking of slaps,
[spoiler]I loved the one Julia gave Cassandra. :) I hate to say it but I am finding Nicholas a lot more interesting than Cassandra and I am finding that I am in grudging agreement about how incompetent Cassandra was. I am glad to see the back of her. But in a way is also frustrates me. We've seen Vicky and Maggie watered down to victim status and now even the devious and powerful Angelique is now in Nicholas' power. I am disappointed that the writer's chose to have Ang dominated by a man. "Pleeeease, Nicholas!" Argh! Stop snivilling like Loomis, for pete's sake![/spoiler]
[spoiler]Child-like monosyllabic Adam was getting on my nerves but I have really enjoyed his initial confrontations with Barnabas demanding a woman be created for him. "Good evening, Barnabas. I will come in (pushes door open, strides confidently in) and we will talk." Loved that. and the whole speech that followed.[/spoiler]
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I think that Angelique's turn as Cassandra wasn't one of her more memorable ones. I mean, she did come up with that ingenious Dream Curse plan, but that inevitably failed.
[spoiler]I rather liked Nicholas coming in as Ang/Cass' boss man, to put her under his thumb. It really added character to the show (not only with actually ADDING a character, but HAA was priceless in his portrayal) and gave something extra to Cassandra, someone for her to answer to, and made her attempt to step up her game. Not to mention the fact that later when Nicholas turned Ang into a vampire and then refused to let her go bite Barnabas right out of the gate, that really created some tension between them. Ang really hated being Nicholas' lapdog that led him to Maggie, and when she eventually went against what he told her to do, it provided some great scenes.[/spoiler]
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Ah, those were the days. I love how they talk about Joe having to be in the hospital for "weeks." In today's post-HMO world, you'd get - "How many fingers am I holding up? One. Right! Send him home!"
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Strange, I started with Dr Who fandom twenty years ago.
When I first started to be able to say I did this or that "twenty years ago", it was kind of cool. Now.... not so much.
It gets even weirder when you hit "thirty years ago" when you speak of your experiences in Fandom. Take it from one who can scare herself remembering that she had her first fanfiction published in a Trek zine in 1975, and first went to - and worked -- a Trekcon in 1977. [a2a3] [peepwall]
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It gets even weirder when you hit "thirty years ago" when you speak of your experiences in Fandom. Take it from one who can scare herself remembering that she had her first fanfiction published in a Trek zine in 1975, and first went to - and worked -- a Trekcon in 1977. [a2a3] [peepwall]
I started a high school Trek club in 1975. I made a couple friends and we didn't get beyond four members. I've never been in any Trek club very long, maybe because they just weren't much fun. The Dr Who fans are a bit looser and funnier, while still appreciating the serious side. I say that even though the original Trek is probably my favorite series, especially year one. My favorite fandom now is DS, followed by Dr Who.
I've never been to a Trek convention. I heard bad things about Creation cons.
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I've never been to a Trek convention. I heard bad things about Creation cons.
Only been to a couple of Creation Cons, not bad, but very business-like. and a bit sterile
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I have had Josette's music box theme in my head for days since I did marathon of the DS Dream Curse! It's driving me MAD!!!! MAD, I tell you!!!! Ahhh, hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
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I have had Josette's music box theme in my head for days since I did marathon of the DS Dream Curse! It's driving me MAD!!!! MAD, I tell you!!!! Ahhh, hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
ROTFLMAOPIMP Nelson! ;)
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Only been to a couple of Creation Cons, not bad, but very business-like. and a bit sterile
The fan-run cons are probably the only worthwhile ones. There's a chance of room parties at those, too.
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[spoiler]The scene where Nicholas first asks Maggie to marry him...[/spoiler]
... I actually spoke aloud, "No, Maggie! Don't let him see you in those quilted pant things!!!
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Call me crazy but does Harry Johnson remind anyone else of Willow Rosenberg? With the red hair and shape of his face and mouth I keep getting reminded of my other favorite witch....
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Not in the slightest, Nelson. Not even a LITTLE bit. NO WAY!
Where Willow is cute and cuddly, Harry is ugly and abrasive.
Where Willow is smart and charming, Harry is idiotic and dry.
Need I continue?
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Has anyone yet fathom what was the point of the Harry Johnson character at all?
It's still a mystery to me.... [idontknow]
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I think they just had the actor as a "left-over" from the 1795/96 storyline and weren't sure what to do with him. When they couldn't get any real use out of the character, they simply dumped him.
Gerard
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Has anyone yet fathom what was the point of the Harry Johnson character at all?
Um, so we could snicker at the name HARRY JOHNSON!? >:D
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Well, he sort of fulfilled a function during the Adam storyline. Too, I believe there was a germ of an idea for a storyline for him. However, it fell by the wayside when things took a different turn. JMO, of course!
I don't know, though, who was worse! The Harry Johnson/Noah Gifford actor or the second Harry whose sole purpose was to [spoiler]bring his mother lightbulbs down to the cottage during the beginning of the Quentin-intro storline.[/spoiler] both were positively dreadful actors!
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Call me crazy but does Harry Johnson remind anyone else of Willow Rosenberg?
He speaks like Ray Bolger. And I think the name at least may have been a completely intentional joke.
More from notes:
VW and Maggie sitting discussing man probs with Joe and Jeff... I just pictured them both pausing then Vicki says, "Wanna be lesbians?" M: "Okay." Then they're never heard from again.
Kidnapping Maggie to "save" her... it's as if Willie thinks, "What way can I try to solve a serious problem, fail, and appear as nutty as humanly possible and incriminate myself beryond any and all hope?" AFTER I wrote that in the notebook, I saw Willie take M to the mausoleum!
Just as Maggie saw the casket and screamed, I pictured Willie saying, "I'm only tryin' ta help!"
I have to check to make sure I didn't post this already.
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Any negative thoughts I express here do not in any way indicate lack of appreciation for the gift of all the tapes. I'm in the grips of it all despite the occasional pothole.
BC says he has no intention of letting Adam run amok at Collinwood, goes and gets this big old rifle and stands there obviously meaning business... then Juila asks, "Barnabas, what are you going to do?!" I'm going to challenge him to a game of pinochle, Julia!! What does it look like?!
The very bad stretch of writing around this time, possibly the worst I've seen on DS, doesn't seem attributable to any writer. Same old names. It's picked up now fortunately, but these are older notes.
Good scene with Maggie staring down Willie in the crypt. She summons up wisdom and courage there, and is obviously absolutely right, yet wrong in the context of the show. BC can't be turned in. Overall, the very cool transition I was looking forward to of Barnabas from dark to light didn't happen. It was all a cheat. Willie in particular views B as a benefactor and saint to be protected at all costs, for no apparent reason.
Thayer David, when he's been walking and has to stop, needs to teeter back and forth sideways before achieving stability and coming to a full stop. I associate that instinctively with Petofi, but it's just TDs build I guess.
BC becoming human was a glorious opportunity wasted. His first healthy entry into Collinwood should have been as affecting as his first in 1967. His new life should have been a wellspring of compelling scenes and moments. It should have been part of what DS was about for awhile. Instead, it's back into a dark cellar for Barnabas, tending equipment.
Why kill Eve? And a middle-aged rich guy with a syringe as an assassin? Everybody at the Old House sort of lost their minds at this point.
I cannot believe Jeff's aimless babbling about V forgiving him for no reason worked.
Does Eve have the Petofi box in her bedroom?
I have more but I owe eyes and brain a favor and will knock off for now.
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I appreciate the fact the writers didn't turn Barnabas into a goody-two-shoes once he became human again. He wasn't as evil as he had been as a vamp, but he wasn't really quite the same man he was back in 1795, before the curse.
All throughout the show I believe Barnabas was fighting an inner war within himself, between good and evil, that's what I always found fascinating about him. I can cheer for him and cry for him at times, other times I can be mad as hell at him and want to smack him upside his head. This to me is what made Barnabas such a fascinating character to me.
He could be very selfish, but he could also be caring and compassionate towards others.
Barnabas was a shades-of-gray type of character, not all good, not all evil. That's why I love him so.
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the second Harry whose sole purpose was to [spoiler]bring his mother lightbulbs down to the cottage during the beginning of the Quentin-intro storline.[/spoiler]
How many Harry Johnsons does it take to change a lightbulb?
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I appreciate the fact the writers didn't turn Barnabas into a goody-two-shoes once he became human again. He wasn't as evil as he had been as a vamp, but he wasn't really quite the same man he was back in 1795, before the curse.
All throughout the show I believe Barnabas was fighting an inner war within himself, between good and evil, that's what I always found fascinating about him. I can cheer for him and cry for him at times, other times I can be mad as hell at him and want to smack him upside his head. This to me is what made Barnabas such a fascinating character to me.
He could be very selfish, but he could also be caring and compassionate towards others.
Barnabas was a shades-of-gray type of character, not all good, not all evil. That's why I love him so.
Me too. Exactly. That's why I was hoping to see a 3-dimensional transition where we see the process where he goes from being twisted to having a real conscience.
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I think the daytime show did a better job of the good/evil nature struggle within Barnabas than the 1991 series.
[spoiler]In the revival series, Barnabas is evil and blood-thirsty one episode, then Julia offers to cure him and he becomes Mr. Nice Guy (at least until Julia causes him to revert due to her jealousy of his relationship with Victoria). He all too willingly trusts her completely almost imediately she offers to cure him....that wasn't the case in the daytime show. Barnabas allows Julia to do her experiments on him, but he clearly does NOT trust her and is always suspicious of her. I always found this more believable than the Barnabas/Julia lovey/dovey scenerio in the new show.[/spoiler]
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BC becoming human was a glorious opportunity wasted. His first healthy entry into Collinwood should have been as affecting as his first in 1967. His new life should have been a wellspring of compelling scenes and moments. It should have been part of what DS was about for awhile...
Word.
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I think the daytime show did a better job of the good/evil nature struggle within Barnabas than the 1991 series.
[spoiler]... He all too willingly trusts her completely almost imediately she offers to cure him....that wasn't the case in the daytime show. ...[/spoiler]
No, but it was in hoDS, from which DC, um, "borrowed" heavily for the first four hours...
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No, but it was in hoDS, from which DC, um, "borrowed" heavily for the first four hours...
Yeah you got a point there. HODS had the same problem of Barnabas trusting Julia too quickly, although for the most post I did like the movie.
I think that's another reason why I never quite warmed up to the 1991 series....instead of coming up with a new and original twist to the Barnabas story, Dan or the writers or both chose to remake bits and pieces of House of Dark Shadows at least in the first couple of episodes.
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instead of coming up with a new and original twist to the Barnabas story, Dan or the writers or both chose to remake bits and pieces of House of Dark Shadows
Well, DC wanted the WB pilot to be a remake of hoDS. ::) Thankfully he was overruled.
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but he himself admits to being a 'slow-study' and frankly, he never seemed to be the kind of actor who could 'think on his feet' and recover from a flub like say, Louie Edmonds can.
Louis was great but he didn't have the lines or presure that Jon had. ;)
I don't think "talent" had anything to do with it. Frid's extensive experience with classical theatre training and performances were not useful when it came to doing DS. One doesn't "wing" Shakespeare, nor does one "ad lib" it. If Barnabas had ever had occasion to quote long passages of the Bard, I'm sure Frid would have been brilliant!
I don't think that DC really gave him very much time off show and appearances.
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Ah, those were the days. I love how they talk about Joe having to be in the hospital for "weeks." In today's post-HMO world, you'd get - "How many fingers am I holding up? One. Right! Send him home!"
This is so true ^-^ :'(
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Thank you for putting up with my comments on the 2 previous posts as comments. But I do have one thought one thing hasn't really been talked about. Tom and Julia, Angelique the Vampire and Barn the Victom. Also I always wondered what happened to Adam. Was the connection lost when Barn went back in time.
My personal viewpoint is that the writers always wanted Barn to be the Vampire. :-X :'(
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I appreciate the fact the writers didn't turn Barnabas into a goody-two-shoes once he became human again. He wasn't as evil as he had been as a vamp, but he wasn't really quite the same man he was back in 1795, before the curse. All throughout the show I believe Barnabas was fighting an inner war within himself, between good and evil, that's what I always found fascinating about him. I can cheer for him and cry for him at times, other times I can be mad as hell at him and want to smack him upside his head. This to me is what made Barnabas such a fascinating character to me. He could be very selfish, but he could also be caring and compassionate towards others. Barnabas was a shades-of-gray type of character, not all good, not all evil. That's why I love him so.
TOTALLY agree!! ;)
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BC becoming human was a glorious opportunity wasted. His first healthy entry into Collinwood should have been as affecting as his first in 1967. His new life should have been a wellspring of compelling scenes and moments. It should have been part of what DS was about for awhile...
Ah, but we DO get [spoiler]that WONDERFUL scene in the hospital room w/Dr. Lang when he first sees the sun again after 175 years in the dark! When he's on the balcony of his hospital room (how many hospitals have BALCONY'S on their rooms?! LOL!) he's almost giddy like a little boy on Christmas, seeing and enjoying the sunlight, and I'd venture the WARMTH of the sun again.[/spoiler];)
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Thank you for putting up with my comments on the 2 previous posts as comments. But I do have one thought one thing hasn't really been talked about. Tom and Julia, Angelique the Vampire and Barn the Victom. Also I always wondered what happened to Adam. Was the connection lost when Barn went back in time.
My personal viewpoint is that the writers always wanted Barn to be the Vampire. :-X :'(
Well, to paraphrase Frid when he appeared on What's My Line, I think the writers knew what side their bread was buttered on; a tortured vampire is a lot more ratings friendly than a human with spikey bangs and relationship issues ;D
As for you other points..... well, IMHO, Tom the Vampire was HHHHHHOOOTTT! [spoiler]Whoowee, and Julia may have agonized about it when she wasn't with him, but unlike Jeff, Joe and Barn with Ang, she was soo sultry and pliant when she was with T the V.[/spoiler]
Ang: [spoiler]I don't think it's ever made entirely clear but I think she stays in the netherworld with Diabolos and Nicholas. Perhaps she gets to torture Blair? :) And things may have been left hanging deliberately to maintain suspense and Barn may revert or Ang come back for him. Barn the victim (again not explained in the show) seems to recover from his thrall to A the V, as it seems does Joe. Either Nicholas freed them off screen, or after a period of time with no renewed contact, the thrall fades.[/spoiler]
Adam: [spoiler]I always got the impression that Adam might have made a comeback the way he was written out, with Stokes sending him away to have his scars removed and commenting on need a new project. But he was never mentioned again. I surmise that off screen Stokes supervised his higher education and the creation of papers to make Adam legit. Perhaps one of the few Collinsport residents to actually have something approaching a "happily ever after."
One does wonder what the effect is on Adam when Barn goes galivanting across time and parallel universes. Again this is pure supposition, but I wonder if Adam died when Barn became a vampire again during the leviathan affair. Since Ang's Dream curse didn't work and Barn survived, perhaps we may take it as read that Barn becomeing a vampire again means Adam must have died (indirectly) at the hands of the Leviathans?[/spoiler]
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I daresay that Adam and Barnabas' tie was severed during all his time traveling. In 1897 and 1840 he had body switches.
[spoiler]When he went to 1897 his life force left his body in 1967/8 and then went back in time to enter his old, 1897 vampire self. So, who's to say that when Angelique did that whole doppleganger deal that she didn't take Barnabas' vampire essence (or at least part of it anyway) and use that to be the doppleganger, thereby negating the whole bond between he and Adam. Or when the Leviathans turned him back into a vampire after he was human (like Nelson said), that could have double negated his bond with Adam.[/spoiler]
After all, with all of his body switching and time-jumping, who knows where the original 1960s Barnabas is. I can just imagine him sitting down all his other selves and writing on a chalkboard "Here's what you need to know if you go back to the present instead of me:
1. Julia is in love with me, and I don't show my feelings towards her. Let's keep it this way until Angelique decides that she loves me.
2. Angelique and I are enemies, except for the times that we decide to like/love one another and work together.
3. Vicki Winters and Maggie Evans are MINE, not yours, so keep your mitts off. I'll find my way back to them someday.
4. THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE. YOU MUST LISTEN TO DR. LANG'S TAPE NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU'VE HEARD IT BEFORE, YOU MUST PLAY IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN OR YOU'LL DIE."
:D
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I can just imagine him sitting down all his other selves and writing on a chalkboard "Here's what you need to know if you go back to the present instead of me:
[lghy] I love these! [thumb]
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It's a pity that Alexandra's pregnancy and problems during led (partly) to her leaving the show when she did. I mean Vicki did end up marrying Jeff/Peter and one assumes they consumated the marriage on their wedding night. Alex could have gotten as big a house and no one would've batted an eye, since it would have been his baby. Unless, there could have even been a whole "Rosemary's baby" storyline! :P
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Unless, there could have even been a whole "Rosemary's baby" storyline! :P
And she was a bit worried, and has stated in interviews, that DC might very well have done this had she stayed on. And you just KNOW he we would have! >:D
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It's a pity that Alexandra's pregnancy and problems during led (partly) to her leaving the show when she did. I mean Vicki did end up marrying Jeff/Peter and one assumes they consumated the marriage on their wedding night. Alex could have gotten as big a house and no one would've batted an eye, since it would have been his baby. Unless, there could have even been a whole "Rosemary's baby" storyline!
Oooh, now THAT would have been an interesting plotline indeed! ;)
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On a separate but related note ... Maggie didn't die in the experiment, so what exactly is her status as far as Nicholas' black mass over her beforehand. Is she one of the darned and will join the legions of Heck led by the Prince of Insufficient Light after she shuffles off the mortal coil?
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Thanks MB! Glad you liked them! *wink*
And it would definitely need to be done, otherwise there would've been further continuity gaps.
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I was musing this morning over poor Joe. I am at the end of DVD collection 11
[spoiler]Joe has seen Chris turn into a werewolf and has gone off his rocker. Question - he babbles about Tom. When did he ever actually see Tom the Vampire? Tom's only victim was Julia. Also, since he was in the room with Chris when he changed, why isn't Joe dead? I guess he got away that time.[/spoiler]
Anyway,a fter all that had happened to Joe, I was thinking how neat it would have been for Joe to remember how strange maggie was acting and her mysterious neck wound, and connect the dots that a vampire had been at work then too, and then after his trip to Crazy Town, he recovers, sort of, and returns to Collinsport and becomes an eccentric Van Helsing watch dog type, determined to find out who was responisble for Maggie and his Vamp problems, a sort of loose cannon, that Barn and Julia would not really want to deal with. :)
Regarding Elizabeth:
[spoiler]I wasn't sure exactly what Cassandra was supposed to be in the episode where Liz appeared to die. She appeared in Liz's dream, fine she was just a part of the dream. But then she appears in Amy's bedroom when Liz is awake. Is that actually Cassandra/Angelique or just the last part of the spell where Liz hallucinates Cassandra? I lean toward the latter.[/spoiler]
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Would have loved to have seen Joe come back, but would have hated it if he went after my favorite Collins guy! Especially since Barnabas would likely be forced to kill Joe before Joe could stake him or shoot him with silver bullets.
Unless of course it was in parallel time and have a darker, more sinister Joe Haskell....that would be different....a Joe Haskell who's an expert on vampires, he just might have been a much better ally for Angelique than Hoffman. Not that I [spoiler]didn't appreciate the fact that RT Julia wounded up killing PT Julia....that was so crazy![/spoiler]
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It seems to me that the victims of the vampire always [or most of the time] forgot about their "victimization" after the vampire was destroyed or was no longer a vampire. Convenient, huh?
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It seems to me that the victims of the vampire always [or most of the time] forgot about their "victimization" after the vampire was destroyed or was no longer a vampire. Convenient, huh?
Hee hee execpt in Maggie's case. I suppose the extremes of mental and physical abuse Barn put her through made a deeper impression... IIRC, every other single vampire attack did end with the victim losing all memory once the vampire was gone (Vicki, Carolyn, Joe (maybe))
But Julia remembered Tom (and who wouldn't?? HHHOOOTTT!!!)
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Let's see if I can finish the 1968 remarks since 1969 has just started...
At end of one ep., "Written by Ron Sproat" was half covered over with "Gordon Russell", with "Russell" hanging off revealing "Sproat", indicating a last-minute change. Did this happen, and why?
Eve and Ang outside Collinwood... just a coupla chicks in nightgowns (1 black, 1 white) standing around talking, one a Frankenstein monster/ghost and the other a vampire witch... neither having any legitimaste business there.
Most of my notes at this point are just me going "cool!" when this or that happens, like Eve going back to 1795, then BC going after they've already been busy setting up 1897.
I thought perhaps Eve would snatch Peter Bradford from 1795, and mistakenly deposit him in the 20th century before Jeff Clark appears in our story, thus explaining how we got there.
Jeff: "Is there a law against opening your own coffin?"
I like clark dealing with the idea of being a ghost.
Nice full head of hair on Eve's skeleton. Today they could have cloned her from that. There's a lot of Hoffman suture work wasted. Can you just imagine her, sewing away, whistling while she sewed....
Ang summoning Devil and subsequent descent into depths of Hell handled well. The domain of the dead really came alive for me. Now that I've seen Hell through the modern miracle of television, a few observations:
Satan has a lisp.
While he has a pretty nice office, I pictured him as the kind of guy who probably wouldn't let himself get stuck behind a desk.
Beelzebub gets a good one-liner in. Blair denies he's going all soft and humanitarian because of loving Maggie, then Devil (through Maggie's mouth) says, "It's gratifying to know that you can still lie, Nicholas!"
Good for Ang, manipulating Satan as she does regular people! Way to go under Nick's head!
Isn't it nice that Satan is letting Nick have a girlfriend?
Blair to Maggie: "Before... your Christ was born!" Bit of a red flag. Today it'd just mean he was a Goth or something, maybe.
I'll post this and continue in a minute.
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Jeff: "Is there a law against opening your own coffin?"
Ang summoning Devil and subsequent descent into depths of Hell handled well. The domain of the dead really came alive for me. Now that I've seen Hell through the modern miracle of television, a few observations:
Satan has a lisp.
While he has a pretty nice office, I pictured him as the kind of guy who probably wouldn't let himself get stuck behind a desk.
One of the best lines ever to be sure!
And as for Satan and his office.... ROFLMAO. Seriously. I liked the ghostly wailing and stuff in the background, genuinely creepy, but I admit you'd think the Devil would have a much more suave sounding voice. Personally I imagine he'd sound very much like Christopher Lee.
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While he has a pretty nice office, I pictured him as the kind of guy who probably wouldn't let himself get stuck behind a desk.
Oh, you mean the reception desk in hell??!! LOL! ;) Karlenfan and I ROARED over that the first time we saw it on the tapes back in the 90's! ;)
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Oh, you mean the reception desk in hell??!! LOL! ;) Karlenfan and I ROARED over that the first time we saw it on the tapes back in the 90's! ;)
Okay, another fine way of looking at it!!! I'll look for brochures from local Hell businesses next to the desk next time!
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At end of one ep., "Written by Ron Sproat" was half covered over with "Gordon Russell", with "Russell" hanging off revealing "Sproat", indicating a last-minute change. Did this happen, and why?
More than likely, the writer's names were just taped on top of each other on the caption roller if no other credits changed. Saves from having to incur the expense of creating a whole new roller where only one credit changed.
I recall see an ep where that taped over credt was flapping and just and shortly after is scrolled out of sight I saw white flash that was the taped over credit coming completely loose and falling down! :D
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Finishing up 1968, maybe...
At some point Julia says, "God, do you want him to die?" You didn't hear that often back then.
BC gets assertive with Blair just before the Eve rereanimation attempt, which was a relief after his having been a sort of personality-free nobody for awhile.
Blair to Hairy Johnson: "We're going to dig up Eve's grave. And by 'we', I mean I'll keep the engine running!" I added that last part.
Stokes to Adam, I think: "You can be assured that death is no better than life, so don't look forward to it."
Right at the start of the pre-1897 storyline, end of 1968 or early 1969, TAD is mentioned... Thaddeus Collins!
I think it's Amy who says to the old-timey telephone, "Could you hold on for a minute?" I forget why I wrote that down... maybe I thought it was funny to say that to a ghost as if it were a regular person on the phone. Anyway, good look of shock from David as Q speaks to him for the first time.
Classic fakeout, where VW appears when they and we were expecting Q's first visible manifestation.
Greg Trask's corpse has long, blonde hair! I know, Q didn't have it either, but I wonder if I'm looking at a timeline where that really is Q. When Q died in 1897 version one, his body had to go somewhere.
In one episode only, Amy and David said "Quentin" rather than "Que'in", which is how most Americans and a lot of Brits would say it, but it was a relief to have it stop... then they went back to it. I used to do that, until I stopped and noticed it.
Did the seance to fix a 1795 problem with Victoria start the whole Chris/1897/Q/Beth problem? By awakening Magda? Or was it C Jenning's arrival in town? Why did Chris lose all caution about living away from people, and stop keeping on the move? Was it all the guilt laid on him over not being there for Amy?
Why don't I have a theme song that trumpets my impending arrival?
I guess I'm not done yet, though I may start a "1969" thread, I don't know.
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SFX question: In episode 631, when Chris visits Blair to ask about his murdered brother, said brother Tom the vampire had in fact been reanimated (this time in a plaid flannel shirt rather than the far sexier blood red shirt he had on when he was sucking on Julia) and is standing outside the window of Blair's house. How was this acheived? Did the director have some video footage pre-recorded to dump in a the correct time? Because ISTR in that scene, we see an exterior of Tom coming up to the window, cut to Blair looking surprised, cut to an interior shot of Tom looking in the window, with blair and Chris talking offscreen, then a cut to a two shot of Blair and Chris on the set and Blair walking to the window.
The shots of the window (inside and out) look like they were recorded on an empty set and I remember the pacing was such that it was not possible for Don to run back and forth to play both parts! :)
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Blair to Hairy Johnson:
ROFL
In one episode only, Amy and David said "Quentin" rather than "Que'in", which is how most Americans and a lot of Brits would say it, but it was a relief to have it stop... then they went back to it. I used to do that, until I stopped and noticed it.
I agree but I can't help being enormously enamored of Amy at this time so whenever she says "Quen'in" I just wanna say, "awwww, how kayoooot!"
Why did Chris lose all caution about living away from people, and stop keeping on the move? Was it all the guilt laid on him over not being there for Amy?
I think that was it, since Tom died there wasn't anyone left to take care of Amy, though ISTR Chris getting ready to bolt now that Amy was pretty well ensconced at Collinwood, then Ned showed up with invalid sister in tow and not long after away we go to 1897!!!!!
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SFX question: In episode 631 ... The shots of the window (inside and out) look like they were recorded on an empty set
Footage was often shot earlier than the actual taping and then inserted at the proper time during taping. :)
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Footage was often shot earlier than the actual taping and then inserted at the proper time during taping. :)
Interesting. I guess that is the first time I really noticed it. I mean it's pretty obvious that some exteriors were filmed (Roger's car, etc.), but with things like the flames burning up Bathia Mapes appearing to the left of her before quickly moving to cover her, and most if not all of the Dream sequences ending on camera lingering on the something the dreamer sees to allow the actor run back to be their bedroom set in time to wake up screaming, I got the impression that just about everything was written, blocked and preformed so that everything was done in real time.
You say that it often happened? Could you perhaps point to some other instances? :)
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Well several that come to mind were when [spoiler]Angelique revived and killed Alexis in Ep #1001, Julia accidentally killed Hoffman when she was about to stake Barnabas in Ep #1036, and the many instances when David and Hallie saw the ghosts of Tad and Carrie.[/spoiler] It was mostly a device that was used whenever an actor had to appear on screen in two places at once.
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Well several that come to mind were when [spoiler]Angelique revived and killed Alexis in Ep #1001, Julia accidentally killed Hoffman when she was about to stake Barnabas in Ep #1036, and the many instances when David and Hallie saw the ghosts of Tad and Carrie.[/spoiler] It was mostly a device that was used whenever an actor had to appear on screen in two places at once.
Ah, that explains it. I haven't made it past 1897. :) As far as I'm concerned
[spoiler]Jenny isn't even dead yet![/spoiler]
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I rewatched 1968 for the first time in about ten years. I went through a time when I was really burn out on DS. I was into the show big time from 1991 to 1998....in the past two weeks I got all of 1968 watched. I have been recovering from a back injury. It has provided some great entertainment! I love it. I think it is by far my favorite present day time peroid. Loved Adam in the beginning. Loved Nicholas. I especially loved the showdowns between Nicholas and Julia toward the end....they were great. Grayson and Humbert were AWESOME together! The kids just discovered Quentin...and that is where I am. I look forward to watching more. I am so glad I found this lovely board.
Stay In The Shadows!!
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1968 is ALSO my favorite year of the show. well THAT & 1970. before the PT. storyline Barnabas's & Julia's LAST storylines that they did before he went back in time to do beat Judah Zachary. it was the DARKEST storyline & i wish they hadn't did the Lottery storyline later on. it just felt so unfniished when they cancelled the show. am i right?
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Cancelled TV shows didn't get to prepare a conclusion to the whole story... especially in a rushed show like DS. I watched the end as a kid and thought it ended in mid-air, but now I'm surprised to find that they actually wrapped up the main characters' story (Collinwood in 1971 is fine), and they finish out the Lottery/Wuthering Heights storyline(s) too.
TV shows almost never "concluded". The Fugitive in 1967 was a very rare exception. Most shows just stopped. They usually did not know whether they were renewed or not when finishing a season.